More senseless killing in Paris

[Amber St. Clare]

This made me cry:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIxOl1EraXA (Mireille Mathieu sings La Marseillaise)

 

[iLander]

Anonymous Declares War on ISIS

Anonymous said Sunday that more than 2,000 ISIS-related Twitter accounts had been taken down in Operation Paris (#OpParis). Given the amorphous and secretive nature of Anonymous, however, the group's activities can be hard to verify and track.

Finally!!!!! If you don't know, Anonymous is a group of hackers all over the world, that choose specific causes and work together to cyberattack those that they feel warrant it.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/anonymous-isis_5649610ae4b045bf3defc173

FASCINATING Atlantic article about one of the hackers and what he does to try to limit ISIS. Shows Twitter posts from ISIS groups:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/anonymous-activists-isis-twitter/409312/
The group claims to have disrupted or taken down more than 130 ISIS-linked websites by overwhelming their servers with fake traffic from multiple sources. (This is called a Distributed Denial of Service, or DDOS, attack.)

He also showed me a set of screenshots from the dark web listing ISIS donation pages that, he said, were taken down shortly after GhostSec had identified them.

Twitter: Under the company’s rules, users can be suspended if they “promote violence against others” or post “excessively violent media.”

he tried to share his blacklist directly with Twitter. “But they never got back to us,” he told me. This still exasperates him. “If they would cooperate with us, it wouldn’t take more than a couple of days to shut [ISIS] totally out. They are shutting down in waves,” he continued. “Suddenly 2,000 accounts are gone, 5,000 accounts are gone, and then [ISIS] can go two weeks with no suspensions, and then 10,000 accounts are gone.”

Explain to me why Twitter is so slow, and so stupid about enforcing this rule? Their lack of attention is costing lives! The government response is embarrassing (see Atlantic article), with their answer being a Twitter account that says "don't do that". Against an organization with 46,000 accounts promoting violence!

If you have a Twitter, or a Facebook, you can help! Anonymous is @GroupAnon Hashtags are #OpISIS #OpParis #IceISIS Show your support! Typical post would be something like: Shout out to #Anonymous @GroupAnon Shut them down with #OpISIS #OpParis Also, you may consider posting something at Twitter to tell them to wake up and get moving! If you don't have a Twitter, use your Facebook to ask your friends who have a Twitter, to tweet something.

 

[kenny]

I'm deeply conflicted about Anonymous.
I love many of their 'causes' such as outing KKK members.

It's just that crossing a boundary and violating privacy is an issue.
Clearly KKK and terrorist are bad bad people, no doubt.

But it's vigilante justice.
No trial.

And who's to say what group may be unfairly targeted?
For example what if some Anonymous members in Saudi Arabia or Iran wanted to out atheists or gays or someone they witnessed consume alcohol because those are evil sinful people who deserve the punishment they'll get?

 

[Matata]

There are some valuable insights here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-franquirivera-phd/stop-caring-about-paris_b_8570258.html
about human responses to tragedy and fear. I long ago gave up hope that we homo sapiens will ever learn from our collective errors to save ourselves from self-imposed extinction.

 

[Jambalaya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc

John Oliver, HBO, Last Week Tonight. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[kenny]

Wow.
Now several US states are refusing to accept Syrian refugees.
I can understand both sides of this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34835353

"More than a dozen US states say Syrian refugees are no longer welcome due to security fears after the Paris attacks.
Governor Rick Snyder of Michigan said he was suspending the acceptance of new arrivals until after a review.
Alabama, Texas and several other states issued similar statements but a State Department spokesman said the legality of this action was still unclear.

President Barack Obama has urged the US to "step up and do its part" to help those fleeing the civil war.
"Slamming the door in their faces would be a betrayal of our values," he said.
"Our nations can welcome refugees who are desperately seeking safety and ensure our own security. We can and must do both."

The governors' decisions come in the wake of the attacks in Paris which killed 129 people on Friday evening.

Seven of the perpetrators died in the attacks, and one of them is thought to have been a Syrian who entered Europe via Greece with migrants.
Millions of Syrians have fled to neighbouring countries and to Europe, and the US has promised to take about 10,000 Syrian refugees in the next 12 months."

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

My understanding is that we have done a lot of vetting for those who are coming into our country. I dont think taking 10,000 refugees will hurt us much. A million or more is quite different. There is a strain on Turkey and Greece now, but maybe they should have helped make a temporary home around Greece. There really are islands around there, and people could return to their home after a settlement of what ever kind there will be. To allow millions to wander the EU, leaves much trouble ahead.

If I may, I want to tell you a story that I read about that has to warm your hearts.

A woman in the US saw pictures of the refugees and noticed they were all carrying their babies and toddlers in their arms. A idea of how she could help was formed. She collected baby carriers from her friend and friends friends until she had 3000 baby carriers-- the kind you wear. Some of them flew to Greece and showed the refugees how to use the carriers. The men wanted them. They said I want to wear my children. It was so touching to see these men with the biggest smiles ever. They now could wear their children across the EU.

Annette

I can't transfer stuff--sorry.

 

[momhappy]

I can understand both sides too, but to be honest, welcoming in more refugees is just too risky IMO. I saw a US map this morning where you can see if (and about how many) refugees have been placed in your city and it was a bit scary. Unfortunately, a couple of bad seeds have ruined it for the rest of them. As much as I can sympathize with the fact that they need help, I can't support their presence here in light of what has happened.

 

[kenny]

If I may, I want to tell you a story that I read about that has to warm your hearts.

A woman in the US saw pictures of the refugees and noticed they were all carrying their babies and toddlers in their arms. A idea of how she could help was formed. She collected baby carriers from her friend and friends friends until she had 3000 baby carriers-- the kind you wear. Some of them flew to Greece and showed the refugees how to use the carriers. The men wanted them. They said I want to wear my children. It was so touching to see these men with the biggest smiles ever. They now could wear their children across the EU.

Thank you smitcompton.
This thread needed this ... one of the most heartwarming things I've heard of in a long time.

 

[momhappy]

I agree - what an amazing thing to do. Something as simple as a baby carrier, but it probably made such a big impact. I "wore" my babies and it made life so much easier.

 

[Mayk]

I can understand both sides too, but to be honest, welcoming in more refugees is just too risky IMO. I saw a US map this morning where you can see if (and about how many) refugees have been placed in your city and it was a bit scary. Unfortunately, a couple of bad seeds have ruined it for the rest of them. As much as I can sympathize with the fact that they need help, I can't support their presence here in light of what has happened.

+1 well said

 

[Matata]

.

 

[katharath]

Some food for thought re: Syrian's entering the US:

"There is no evidence that ISIS is engaged in a massive effort to smuggle jihadis into Syria’s refugee flows. (Yes, it appears one of the Paris killers embedded himself in the torrent of refugees flowing into Europe, but the continent has hundreds of thousands arriving on its shores, and French intelligence services are stretched thin.) ISIS is working around the clock to get young, nihilistic recruits to move to Syria, not fan out across the globe. As Daniel Byman has pointed out, ISIS has denounced those who choose to leave its territory as committing “a dangerous major sin.”

It takes anywhere from 18–24 months for a Syrian refugee to be cleared to live in the United States. First he or she must be registered with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. This agency interviews refugees, conducts background checks, takes their biometric data, and establishes whether they belong to one of roughly 45 “categories of concern” given their past lives and work history in Syria. Typically, the applicants are women and children. If anything looks amiss, they are pulled from consideration. Then the U.S. government begins its own vetting. The applicants are interviewed again, and their names and particulars are run through terrorism databases. They receive additional screening when they arrive in the United States and then again after their first year in the country.

This process has led to slightly more than 1,800 Syrians being admitted to the United States since 2011.

There is another way to look at this: There may be no more difficult way for a would-be terrorist to enter the United States than to pose as a Syrian refugee. And if that was true last week, it is exponentially more difficult after the Paris attacks. If ISIS is looking to smuggle its operatives into the United States, there are far more effective ways to do so."

-William J. Dobson, Slate



The latest thing is for Republican governors to announce that they won't be allowing any Syrians in their states. Here's a bit of irony (also per Slate, By Ben Mathis-Lille):


"Louisiana's Bobby Jindal has joined a number of other Republican governors in responding to a terrorist attack carried out in Paris by several French citizens and maybe one Syrian member of ISIS by punishing the Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS-related violence:

I just signed an Executive Order instructing state agencies to take all available steps to stop the relocation of Syrian refugees to LA.

— Gov. Bobby Jindal (@BobbyJindal) November 16, 2015
Jindal is a first-generation American; his parents came to the United States from the Indian state of Punjab, which borders Pakistan and has been plagued during Jindal's parents' lifetime by horrific ethnic cleansing, war, and sectarian domestic terrorism. One might even say that they left the political and religious chaos of their homeland to seek a better life. Jindal is also the governor of a state whose Cajun- and Haitian-influenced food and culture have made it a major destination for tourists."

 

[katharath]

Coincidentally, my husband was actually in Paris on the day of the attacks. He hasn't been to Europe in approx 20 years, but he flew in the day it happened. His flight to Paris took off a couple of hours before reports started coming in. So that was a bit frightening. I was very thankful that he was perfectly fine.

 

[AGBF]

welcoming in more refugees is just too risky IMO.

...​

I can't support their presence here in light of what has happened.

+1 well said

We didn't keep out the Italians because of the Mafia or Mussolini. We didn't keep out the Germans because of Hitler. We're going to keep out the Syrians who have been drowning off the coast of Greece because their tormentors-ISIS-from whom they are fleeing-also attacked the French?

Deb/AGBF

 

[Mayk]

welcoming in more refugees is just too risky IMO.

...​

I can't support their presence here in light of what has happened.

+1 well said

We didn't keep out the Italians because of the Mafia or Mussolini. We didn't keep out the Germans because of Hitler. We're going to keep out the Syrians who have been drowning off the coast of Greece because their tormentors-ISIS-from whom they are fleeing-also attacked the French?

Deb/AGBF

The Presdient calls them a JV Team, says they are contained they take down a Russian Airliner, massacre people all over the world, torture and chop off the heads of Christians, and Muslims that don't share their beliefs, burned a Jewish pilot alive, the list of atocities continues and now they are touting the US is next. Tell me on The day after 9/11 did you think we should bring in refugees more people who want to kill Americans? Have we forgotten how many gave up their lives. It's just gotten out of control and yes they are vetting or attempting to vet those that enter. There are no guarantees we will root out the evil ones. We need to fix our current issues with the southern boarder before we decide to accept more. We can't take care of our own. At some point there has to be a stop gap. Our seniors, our vets should come first. I don't think we live in a world any longer where we can just toss open our doors to anyone who wants to enter. I feel bad for the mothers toting children. I'm not completely heartless but what about the Americans born in this country that can't survive. The 10,000 will come at a price. What's another Trillion right?

 

[Dancing Fire]

The news reports one of the terrorists entered Paris during the early part of October from Syria seeking asylum.

http://www.katc.com/story/30519158/jindal-demands-answers-about-syrian-refugees-arriving-to-louisiana-after-paris-attacks

Well the Refugees are starting to arrive in the US, New Orleans first. Nothing about this makes me feel safer. Coming to a city near you 10,000 Refuges headed to 180 cites. How long before we are reading the headlines about a coordinated attack on US soil?

Make no mistake about motive the radicals that make their way into America want to kill Americans (Infidels). You can give it any reason you want. This is a hard cold fact.

We are gonna take in about 100-200K refugees? why are we importing terrorists? ... not only importing terrorists, but we'll have to support them with taxpayer money too...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wow.
Now several US states are refusing to accept Syrian refugees.
I can understand both sides of this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34835353

"More than a dozen US states say Syrian refugees are no longer welcome due to security fears after the Paris attacks.
Governor Rick Snyder of Michigan said he was suspending the acceptance of new arrivals until after a review.
Alabama, Texas and several other states issued similar statements but a State Department spokesman said the legality of this action was still unclear.

President Barack Obama has urged the US to "step up and do its part" to help those fleeing the civil war.
"Slamming the door in their faces would be a betrayal of our values," he said.
"Our nations can welcome refugees who are desperately seeking safety and ensure our own security. We can and must do both."

When is our President going to wake up to the true facts?..

 

[Jambalaya]

I haven't read all the responses, but I just want to say that America is a country of immigrants, and it's such a pity for a few bad apples to spoil the chance of a better life for the many who would benefit from coming here. This also applies to immigrants to European countries too. The vast majority of immigrants enrich the cultural life of their new country by bringing their cuisine and other aspects of their cultures, and most want to work hard and live peaceably. These extremists are a tiny, tiny proportion of all immigrants/refugees/Muslims as a whole. The overwhelming majority of those groups come in peace. We shouldn't let these terrible acts harden our hearts toward whole cultures and peoples.

 

[AGBF]

The Presdient calls them a JV Team, says they are contained they take down a Russian Airliner, massacre people all over the world, torture and chop off the heads of Christians, and Muslims that don't share their beliefs, burned a Jewish pilot alive, the list of atocities continues and now they are touting the US is next.

MayK, the "they" to whom you and President Obama refer above is ISIS, the terrorists. It is NOT the helpless refugees who flee their reign of terror in Syria. The reason the the United States, France, and Russia are now bombing Syria is to bomb the ISIS strongholds so that these refugees do not need to flee their homeland.

Please think about what you are saying. You are saying that we should not help victims of terror, like the French, when you say we should not help the Syrian refugees.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Mayk]

The Presdient calls them a JV Team, says they are contained they take down a Russian Airliner, massacre people all over the world, torture and chop off the heads of Christians, and Muslims that don't share their beliefs, burned a Jewish pilot alive, the list of atocities continues and now they are touting the US is next.

MayK, the "they" to whom you and President Obama refer above is ISIS, the terrorists. It is NOT the helpless refugees who flee their reign of terror in Syria. The reason the the United States, France, and Russia are now bombing Syria is to bomb the ISIS strongholds so that these refugees do not need to flee their homeland.

Please think about what you are saying. You are saying that we should not help victims of terror, like the French, when you say we should not help the Syrian refugees.

Deb/AGBF

AGBF. He calls them Isil whatever they are contained so he says so it must be true and I thought about what I said. AGBF think about the Ameticans that need us..... We need to help our own. My opinion differs greatly from yours. Bolding my name doesn't encourage me to see things your way. 3,000 plus people died in 9/11 how many might die in the next attack? There will be an attack. One of the bombers in Paris was 15 years old. Are they scanning 12-15 year olds for who might have been racialized. What part of "DC you are next" do you not believe? They were just kidding right. We are in no danger. Let them all in.

 

[ksinger]

Well, I know I'm far more worried about domestic terrorism and being shot up by some disgruntled 20-something white guy in a theatre or mall, than I am of a few thousand vetted Syrian refugees.

 

[AGBF]

AGBF. He calls them Isil whatever they are contained so he says so it must be true and I thought about what I said. AGBF think about the Ameticans that need us..... We need to help our own. My opinion differs greatly from yours. Bolding my name doesn't encourage me to see things your way. 3,000 plus people died in 9/11 how many might die in the next attack? There will be an attack. One of the bombers in Paris was 15 years old. Are they scanning 12-15 year olds for who might have been racialized. What part of "DC you are next" do you not believe? They were just kidding right. We are in no danger. Let them all in.

MayK-I always bold the name of a Pricescoper to whom I write or to whom I refer. (Unless I forget to do so, which may happen since I have developed a poor memory as I have aged.) Please avail yourself of all my 14,000 plus postings to see that I was not singling you out in order to try to influence you!

ISIL and ISIS are the same entity. I am not sure if you had some question about that. You mentioned that President Obama called "them" ISIL. (I had called the terrorists who attacked the French and whom we, the French, and the Russians were bombing in Syria ISIS.) He (the President) and I are in agreement about who the culprit is: ISIS/aka ISIL, not the refugees.

The fact that Islamic terrorists have targeted us should not make us fail to protect other of their victims, just because those victims have darker skin than ours, speak a different language, or have a different religion.

The refugees are also victims of ISIS/ISIL. If we want to fight terrorism should we not stand with the refugees?

If you want to avenge 9/11 why would you give in to ISIS and let them terrorize these poor Syrians? (Not that Al-Qaeda is exactly like ISIS, but both are Muslim extremist groups out to destroy the West.) On the contrary, if we want to avenge 9/11 and fight terrorism, we should stand firm with France and with the Syrian victims of ISIS. We should stand with the refugees. The refugees in Europe today bear a lot of similarity to the Jews fleeing the Nazis after Hitler came to power in 1933.

Deb/AGBF

 

[Mayk]

AGBF. He calls them Isil whatever they are contained so he says so it must be true and I thought about what I said. AGBF think about the Ameticans that need us..... We need to help our own. My opinion differs greatly from yours. Bolding my name doesn't encourage me to see things your way. 3,000 plus people died in 9/11 how many might die in the next attack? There will be an attack. One of the bombers in Paris was 15 years old. Are they scanning 12-15 year olds for who might have been racialized. What part of "DC you are next" do you not believe? They were just kidding right. We are in no danger. Let them all in.

MayK-I always bold the name of a Pricescoper to whom I write or to whom I refer. (Unless I forget to do so, which may happen since I have developed a poor memory as I have aged.) Please avail yourself of all my 14,000 plus postings to see that I was not singling you out in order to try to influence you!

ISIL and ISIS are the same entity. I am not sure if you had some question about that. You mentioned that President Obama called "them" ISIL. (I had called the terrorists who attacked the French and whom we, the French, and the Russians were bombing in Syria ISIS.) He (the President) and I are in agreement about who the culprit is: ISIS/aka ISIL, not the refugees.

The fact that Islamic terrorists have targeted us should not make us fail to protect other of their victims, just because those victims have darker skin than ours, speak a different language, or have a different religion.

The refugees are also victims of ISIS/ISIL. If we want to fight terrorism should we not stand with the refugees?

If you want to avenge 9/11 why would you give in to ISIS and let them terrorize these poor Syrians? (Not that Al-Qaeda is exactly like ISIS, but both are Muslim extremist groups out to destroy the West.) On the contrary, if we want to avenge 9/11 and fight terrorism, we should stand firm with France and with the Syrian victims of ISIS. We should stand with the refugees. The refugees in Europe today bear a lot of similarity to the Jews fleeing the Nazis after Hitler came to power in 1933.

Deb/AGBF

We are of differing opinions. I will leave it and that. Oh and I'm not seeking revenge thanks for astute assessment. I would like to protect our country and our citizens.. So I'm a horrible self centered heartless winch who doesn't care about the refugees. I'm good with your analysis of my level of compassion. I'm usually on the outside of most positions here I should know better than to post. Silly me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Mayk|

AGBF. He calls them Isil whatever they are contained so he says so it must be true and I thought about what I said. AGBF think about the Ameticans that need us..... We need to help our own. My opinion differs greatly from yours. Bolding my name doesn't encourage me to see things your way. 3,000 plus people died in 9/11 how many might die in the next attack? There will be an attack. One of the bombers in Paris was 15 years old. Are they scanning 12-15 year olds for who might have been racialized. What part of "DC you are next" do you not believe? They were just kidding right. We are in no danger. Let them all in.[/quote]


Mayk...hard to convince the left to see the truth...

 

[AGBF]

First you said:

We are of differing opinions. I will leave it and that.

But then you went on to say:

Oh and I'm not seeking revenge thanks for astute assessment. I would like to protect our country and our citizens.. So I'm a horrible self centered heartless winch who doesn't care about the refugees. I'm good with your analysis of my level of compassion. I'm usually on the outside of most positions here I should know better than to post. Silly me.

I guess you couldn't "leave it like that" after all.

 

[momhappy]

This country may be a country of immigrants, but the rules have changed. The world is not the same place any more. Yes, it's sad that a few bad apples have ruined it for the whole bunch, but that's the way it is. It makes me uncomfortable, not knowing, and that means that I can't support relocating them here.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="AGBF|

If you want to avenge 9/11 why would you give in to ISIS and let them terrorize these poor Syrians? (Not that Al-Qaeda is exactly like ISIS, but both are Muslim extremist groups out to destroy the West.) On the contrary, if we want to avenge 9/11 and fight terrorism, we should stand firm with France and with the Syrian victims of ISIS. We should stand with the refugees. The refugees in Europe today bear a lot of similarity to the Jews fleeing the Nazis after Hitler came to power in 1933.

[/quote]

Deb.
Maybe you can convince our President that there are Muslim extremist groups trying to destroy the west.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Well, I know I'm far more worried about domestic terrorism and being shot up by some disgruntled 20-something white guy in a theatre or mall, than I am of a few thousand vetted Syrian refugees.

You don't need a few thousand terrorists to do big damages, just ask France.

 

[chemgirl]

I would take a house of refugees over the drug dealers down the street.

Seriously though, these people are vetted. They aren't just letting anyone over. We're expecting Syrian refugees in my ward and I'm totally fine with it. It's like a community project with fundraising and people seem excited about it...