Monarch, AmberGretchen and other vegetarians...

[luckystar112]

Do you have any advice for me? I''ve been thinking about becoming a vegetarian for a very long time. There is just one huge problem....I LOVE meat.

My reason for wanting to become a vegetarian is because I just have never felt right about eating animals. So I have been struggling with this tug of war for a long time, and have hopefully decided that my love for animals is more passionate than my love for the taste of meat.

I think about it sometimes, and I know that getting meat at a store is so much easier than going out and killing my own animal, which is probably why I''ve ignored it for so long. I know that I wouldn''t eat meat if I actually had to kill the animal myself, so I''m starting to ask myself why I even eat it in the first place. I mean, I get sad when FI brings home fish that he caught at a lake. And when we go fishing on the ocean, I sneak and let some of the bait free when FI isn''t looking.

This is coming from someone who likes their steak medium rare. In fact, just typing that made my mouth water. What''s wrong with me??? I''m terrified of failure....and I really don''t know if I''ll be able to do it. But I think I should at least try.

So, I guess my question is, does anyone have any advice on how to make a (very) slow transition into being vegetarian? Maybe some good recipes or something? I should probably mention that I hate tofu, so there goes any typical vegetarian meals. Should I just avoid one type of meat and then gradually start to omit others from my diet as well?



I''d appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks

 

[Independent Gal]

Lucky, unless your concern is personal purity, then eating less meat doesn''t have to be a zero sum game. You can do just that: eat LESS meat. Have it only once a week, or once every two weeks. Every little bit helps in terms of the environmental impact and in terms of the number of animals involved. And eating meat only once a week instead of every day has a HUGE impact, actually, not a small one. If you''re in the habit of eating meat, say, 5 days a week, cutting down to once a week means you''ve just cut your affect on the environment and animals by 80%.

So, how about not approaching it as an all or nothing, but just cutting down. That''s a great start. You won''t be able to say "I''m a vegetarian" but it doesn''t sound like that''s what you''re in it for anyway.

You could always use my line when people say ''are you a vegetarian?'' which is "You know how some people are social smokers? Well, I''m a social carnivore." That usually shuts people up.

Buy some veggie cookbooks (do a search... lots of threads on this!) and make some yummy treats!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

"Social carnivore"...

That''s good. I''ll have to remember that.

I was a vegetarian for seven years, and I have to admit I''ve never felt better physically than that period of my life. I''ve thought about going back to it from time to time, but my will is weak.

 

[neatfreak]

Hehe, IG, I TOTALLY am a social carnivore. I was also veg for 7 years, and it didn't suit my body well unfortunately. I just cannot for the life of me, get enough nutrients (esp. protein) when I was veg. So if you go completely veg. make SURE you check for iron and things like that in your diet. But FI is a vegetarian, so what I cook at home is mostly veg usually.

But that being said, I TOTALLY agree with IG. Depending on what your issues with meat are (is it that animals are being killed PERIOD? Or HOW they are treated before they are killed?), you could also try buying your meat locally. When I do buy it, I buy it at my local farmers market, from farmers who raise their cows and chickens without nasty stuff, they get to graze around gorgeous pastures their whole lives, then are humanely slaughtered. I also try to patronize restaurants that buy locally too.

All those things coupled with reducing your meat intake can have a large impact. So I would start there. If you are a major carnivore it will be really really hard for you to just go cold turkey (pun intended!). I would reduce, then after a few months, see where you are in terms of health AND feelings on the subject.

I would start getting some veg. cookbooks. My favs are by Deborah Madison. She is one of the pioneers of vegetarian eating. I really like her "Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone" book. Another great series is the Moosewood cookbooks.

Best of luck!

 

[luckystar112]

Neatfreak, what do you mean by "humanely slaughtered"? It kind of sounds like an oxymoron. lol! I don''t know...that might make me feel worse, becuase it''s like people are being the nice to the animals when they really have another motive.

LOL. I know. I''m weird.

To answer your question, it''s basically everything. It''s "bambie syndrome". I love to fish, but when I do I cannot keep what I catch. I don''t like watching FI filet the fish on the boat, and I can''t bring myself to eat it when he cooks it. With that being said, I order fish from restaurants all the time. I love steak, but if someone gave me a gun and told me to go shoot a cow, I could never do it. I''ve never eaten deer or elk or lamb or anything because I know that they are gentle animals and it would just break my heart. (I feel the same way about cow and chicken and pigs, but they''ve been a part of my diet for a long time.) I would NEVER be able to pick out a live lobster from a fish tank for a chef to cook for me. I can''t watch planet earth or any other program that shows the circle of life (i.e. animals killing eachother) because I feel like if I were a cameraman filming it, I''d try to save the animal being killed. I save bugs out of pools, I save insects that are caught in webs before the spider can get to them, I steal lizards out of my cat''s mouth....I just feel bad about carnivores eating other carnivores! Yet I AM a carnivore. And don''t even get me started on slaughter houses, but I don''t think that''s "it" for me. I think it''s just the whole idea that the animal used to be alive.

Oh, and if I eat something like shrimp, I force myself to eat ALL of it, or else I feel like they died for nothing. lol....I swear. I''ve got issues.

I don''t know if me not eating meat will make a difference in the grand scheme of things, but I think it will make me feel a little better. I''m just afraid that since I hate tofu that I''ll be on a strict diet of pasta and veggies for the rest of my life.
I''m going to pick up a vegetarian cookbook today, and take a look at some recipes. And I do think it is probably best that I just start slowly. I''ll start with red meat, since I don''t eat it too often anyway, then probably move on to chicken, then finally seafood. But I''ll eat meat on my wedding day as a gift to myself. That makes me feel like a hypocrite though. I guess this whole thing is hypocritical, really.

 

[baby monster]

Luckystar, my advice is try being 100% vegetarian for couple of months. Just jump in

. You''ve got nothing to lose since you can always go back to eating meat but you might see a huge difference in how you feel. I know I did and I don''t think I ever ate or felt better in my life. A whole different world of vegetables, fruits and whole grains opened up to me that tastes amazing! Try new grains and vegetables that you always passed by in the store or never heard of. Try new veg. dishes in restaurants that you never thought of trying. You might hate some, but you might find some you''ll love.

And, like you, I always thought I hated tofu but I just never had it prepared the right way. Now I love it. A good way to start on tofu is to begin adding it small amounts to soups for protein instead of meat.

 

[Independent Gal]

Lucky, I eat almost NO tofu, and have been cooking vegetarian all my life (my dad is strict veg so I was raised that way, even though I eat chicken and fish at restaurants).

It's all about beans, milk, lentils, soy products, peas, nuts, eggs.... all serious sources of protein. There's more protein in a glass of milk than in a serving of tofu.

If you eat pasta and veggies, you'll get sick! You need protein to build cells and stuff.

Check out a few veggie cookbooks and see what looks good. My favourite is still the Moosewood series. Loooove 'moosewood lowfat favourites'. Mouthwatering good. Almost no tofu involved.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Hey...good for you!!

There is a ton of substitutes that help you with the transition. Find yourself craving a cheeseburger?...no problem. Go to your grocers freezer and you will find a plethora of options. From patties that are just like the real thing to patties made from mushroom, onion, carrot, and even water chestnut combinations. There are chicken patties, buffalo wings, strips, nuggets, and fingers. There are turkey loafs, cutlets...there is sausage patties, bacon, links, bratwurst, hot dogs. There is sliced sandwich meats, bologna, Canadian bacon, smoked turkey, ham, salami...there is also ground round for cooking. We just had tacos for lunch.

Or in the produce isle you can use a grilled portobello mushroom -can really fill a meat craving.

You don''t have to sit down to a boring block of white tofu...any longer. They have made several products that will help you in this transition.

Many vegheads don''t want ANYTHING that looks like meat. But in your case you may have to try this route. You will be so surprised that the flavors really aren''t that far off from what you have been eating while eating real flesh.

Just season the substitute just like you would the real thing. Worcestershire (warning has anchovies) sauce for the red meat stuff, garlic salts and powders, black peppers, saute in olive oils. Grilling needs added oils as these substitutes are VERY low in fat.

What is the ONE thing/item/ you love the most in eating meat? Lets see if we can fill that spot with a substitute with some experienced advice from the board.

Best of Health,

DKS

 

[Independent Gal]

Mmmmm.... phoney bologna. Love that stuff. With hot mustard. On rye.

ETA: In my experience, Yves Veggie makes the absolute most real, most delicious fake meats. Just remember that they're packed with delicious chemicals! So probably not a great choice for EVERY day. But once or twice a week won't kill ya.

 

[door knob solitaire]

Lucky star...

Don''t beat yourself up on eating meat. I too was raised eating all things~in my case American style. After all when you are in the grocers the stuff is laid out on little white styrofoam trays wrapped in plastic...it doesn''t actually have eyes staring back at you. The ugly stuff is removed...hair, the ears, the eyes...all gone. It was just a ground beef...or steak...or chicken meat. It wasn''t actually mooing or crowing...it was just all nice and neat and ready with a little price tag attached.

We have become so accustomed to the marketing of an item, we forget to actually trace it back to the origin. I wonder if that is what you are trying to understand...

THIS IS IN NO WAY SLAMMING ANY ONE WHO READS THIS...I am only addressing LS questioning herself and her love of animals and then her eating meat. There is a difference in eating an animal you just petted or stroked...to a hunk of anonymous flesh under cellophane in the grocers case. That is what I am trying to articulate. And LS, I understand and share your dilemma.

DKS

 

[partgypsy]

Luckystar, I commend you on your journey to more closely align your behavior with your values. When I was younger I also went the vegetarian route (not completely, still ate meat 1,2 times a month) but then ended up becoming severly anemic (iron deficient), even though I had an "excellent" vegetarian diet. I even went to a dietician and had my diet analyzed, and they themselves didn''t have much more to suggest to improve my diet (other than adding liver!). One thing my doctor said is that some people can''t absorb non animal sources of iron as well as animal sources. Contrary to other people''s experiences I actually felt much better once I started eating meat again (probably because my anemia recovered). So for me one thing I learned was moderation is key, and don''t beat yourself up so much. It doesn''t have to be all or nothing. I don''t eat meat every day, and mostly stick to beef or seafood when I do have it.

The thing that my husband and I do that reduces our meat intake is get some good ethnic cookbooks (indian curries, mexican sopas, mediterrean frittatas, mezes and pasta dishes, etc). There are so many delicious ethnic dishes that also happen to be vegetarian that you won''t feel deprived! For stuff on the go I am a big fan of Amy''s frozen vegetarian entrees. Good luck!

 

[Ellen]

*putting down ham sammich*


*pushing plate away*

 

[AmberGretchen]

LS - I totally understand where you are coming from.

I have been a veggie since I was 5 years old, but my approach to it and philosophy is very different than most peoples'' so I don''t think it will be very helpful to you. I did originally stop eating meat because my parents had a ranch when I was younger, and I quickly made the connection that the lamb out in the field = the lamb on the table at dinner kind of thing. However, as I''ve gotten older I''ve come to realize that (especially as a scientist) I don''t think that eating meat is fundamentally wrong, although I do STRONGLY disagree with the mistreatment of animals and the ways in which most of the meat available to American consumers is produced. For me, personally, meat has never been appealing to eat, as long as I can remember. I ate fish until I was about 10, and then that became repulsive to me as well. However, I don''t judge other peoples'' eating habits and only ask that they respect my choices in return.

That said, I''m happy to help with practical suggestions for how to accommodate a vegetarian diet. The first thing would be to add a multivitamin to your daily routine. It doesn''t have to be a fancy one, just make sure there is iron and B12 in it and you should be good to go.

Second, find a good source of high-quality produce. Buy the best fruits and vegetables you can, and stock up as frequently as you can so they are fresh. If you don''t eat a wide variety of them now, try to try one or two new fruits and/or vegetables each week. Almost any vegetable sauteed or oven-roasted with a little bit of olive oil and garlic and salt and pepper is likely to be appealing if you''re going to like it at all.

Try lots of new things, and a wide variety of things. A previous poster''s suggestion of ethnic foods was excellent. Indian and Thai are two of my favorites that almost always have delicious vegetarian options.

Legumes (lentils, beans), and lowfat or nonfat dairy are great non-tofu sources of protein and calcium. Re: the tofu, I''ve converted many people to eating it in my life (not deliberately, just that I''d be cooking it and they''d want to try some) and agree that a large part of the trick is in preparation. My favorite is to buy firm or extra-firm, cut into largish cubes (about 1-2" square), pan fry in some cooking spray or oil with a little salt until it gets crispy and golden on all sides, then season with your choice of sauce (plain soy sauce is yummy here).

I honestly don''t ever feel that I''m "missing out" by not eating meat, but I recognize that its not a good choice for everybody. I do think most people could eat a lot less meat and probably not miss it (and possibly be healthier) for it. The planet would certainly fare better. No one else in my family, including my DH is a vegetarian, but my parents and now my DH ate mostly vegetarian meals at home while I lived with them. We definitely didn''t live on pasta and veggies, or on tofu alone.

Anyway, I hope that is helpful. Maybe you should take some time to browse some vegetarian recipes, buy a couple of cookbooks, notice the vegetarian options at restaurants when you go out, etc...before taking the plunge - it might make the transition easier if you decide to take the plunge.

Good luck whatever you decide and I''m happy to help in any other way that I can!

 

[monarch64]

I don't really have any fabulous advice or "the secret to becoming vegetarian" for you...Two years ago I just decided to see if I could go for a whole week without eating meat. It wasn't hard at all, but then I didn't like eating it to begin with (except chicken for some reason). I also started exercising regularly, joined a gym, ended up doing the Avon Walk for Breast Cancer, and just tied it into general well-being which helped me stay on track. This past year I quit smoking, had some oral surgery done that I'd been putting off, have braces now (at 30!), and that's also part of just trying to take better care of myself overall. Maybe there are other things you could do to keep yourself motivated either health-wise, or getting involved with an animal welfare organization, or joining a meetup group of fellow veggies/vegans, etc.

I have really enjoyed branching out as far as my veggie and whole grains consumption in order to get the correct nutrients, it's been fun and so interesting to eat different things than I was used to and experiment. I'm not a huge tofu fan, but I love beans and nuts and lentils, so those help out with fiber and protein considerably. Check out some of the veg friendly websites, just google vegetarian and you'll find all kinds of good stuff.

ETA: ohhh, forgot to add one teeny little detail...the week I decided to stop eating meat on a trial basis I sent off for Peta's "Meet your Meat" DVD/vegetarian starter kit. Oh boy, did that ever get rid of my cravings. Not saying I'm all for PETA, but wow, it was something to behold and not in a good way.

 

[luckystar112]

Thank you everyone for your advice!!!

I hate beans too. Man, I''m really going to suck at being a vegetarian! lol.
Monarch, Peta scares me. At least the way they try to get people on their side scares me. I bet that video would make me cry. I already know it''s probably going to feature animals in cages and feature animals being slaughtered. Yikes. No way I could watch that!

I am very impressed with you guys who just decided to stop eating meat one day. I hope that I can eventually get to that point. I don''t cook too often, but there is no better time to learn than now.

 

[monarch64]

Yeah, PETA is certainly extreme, to say the least. I guess a couple of years ago I had to see for myself what all the hype was about, and they do not disappoint, lol! I''m not a very extreme person, although not middle of the road, but still, if you can look at what they have to say with an open mind and try to filter some of their rhetoric then some of what they offer is educational. As long as they''re not the only source of info a potential veg takes into consideration I see nothing wrong with taking a peek at their website, at least. And yes, the DVD is very extreme, but growing up on a farm I was prepared whereas you might not be.

Btw, I am like you, for some reason cannot stand to watch those Discovery channel or Nature shows where predator and prey meet and the latter succombs, DH loves those shows and so did my dad but I just can''t sit through the gory parts. They literally bring me to tears and I have to leave the room every time! Maybe it''s the violence of nature, not necessarily the animals dying or one being weaker than the other, because logically I understand that it''s the way the animal kingdom works. Still, it is basically impossible for me to watch...

I admire your conviction and determination to change something about yourself that may be really tough to do. I think the more you educate yourself and just try new things or thoughts you will get closer and closer to your goal, and it is possible you will just have to take baby steps or try it on a temporary basis rather than overwhelming yourself with an all-or-nothing attitude. I have to tell you, when I was a teen I used to think in my head (and sometimes tell others) that eating meat was like biting into your own bicep and tearing our part of it and eating it. Same thing really, muscle, flesh, blood... well, that''s how I thought of it in my mind anyway (NOT looking to argue here, just a personal thought!) I grossed myself out about it so much that eating the only meat that ever REALLY appealed to me (petite filet, medium) seemed disgusting. Does THAT help, LOL?!!?

 

[Mara]

i'm not a veggie but i wanted to chime in. i totally think everyone should eat whatever floats their boat, it's their bodies, their lives etc.

i always wonder though, why sometimes people have such an issue with eating meat. i mean i can understand being against the horrible treatment of the animals in certain environments...but above and beyond that, what is really wrong with eating meat? historically the men went out and brought home the BACON. not the lettuce.

not to say necessarily that there isn't a more enlightened way than what was done in the past or that there can't be a change, but whenever i think about the argument for 'oh the lamb in the field is the lamb on the table' i tend to think...gee glad that humans are at the top of the food chain (for now anyway!). someday that could be us being eaten by some other higher type of goshknowswhat. and i would imagine they aren't going to think twice about eating us.

and would i really want them to? probably not.

monnie when you went veggie you had to talk yourself into imagining the whole bone/muscle/sinew thing to gross yourself out enough to not want to eat it. that makes me wonder, why did you want to go veggie in the first place if you had to talk yourself into it and work at it so hard?

i'm not trying to argue, i'm just always so curious about this. whenever i have gone on not eating meat kicks or eat less meat or whatever, i end up missing it typically...there is nothing that tastes like a cheeseburger or an excellent piece of filet, and i eat a ton of chicken and turkey. i can't even imagine being veggie, even if i had to be i think i'd somehow feel like something was always missing. i can eat a meal without meat, no biggie, or two meals or three meals, but eventually i do feel that craving for protein and not milk proteins, but more like meat proteins.

anyway, luckystar...i can hear what you are saying about wanting to eat less meat...but i don't feel like people should have to talk themselves into it. i mean if you want to go veggie, go veggie. i definitely don't have any sadness seeing a fish on the hook, or a chicken running around or whatever. i'm probably thinking more on how i am going to marinate it and grill it. hehe. it's so interesting to me that it is really only in the last how many years people have started to have this 'conscience' when it comes to meat. think in the early 1900's the women ever stopped to consider the chicken's feelings before they killed it for dinner? no way. they had to eat.

i also think our bodies need that type of protein...all the other types that are out there are not the same as the meat proteins. they have even done studies that show recently that soy protein doesn't build the same type of muscle that other proteins do. anyway kind of interesting.

 

[monarch64]

I didn't "have" to talk myself into going veg with the little brainwashing-myself-experiment I did, it just sort of came to me one day and that's how I thought about it for several years, even before I went veg. Honestly, I just grew up not liking meat...I had several experiences with eating it where I almost vomited, plus the same animals I was eating (ok maybe they were from a different farm) were the ones I went with my mom and brother down to feed every morning, or the ones my mom and dad had to chase out of the back yard or out of the roads when they broke through the barbed wire fences...so in part I sort of already knew the whole process, knew the animal on a personal basis, and made the connection between that and what was on my plate.

Also, when my dad became ill with colon cancer (my paternal grandfather died of the same disease) a few years ago, I learned that animal products stay in the lower GI tract much longer, and some of my research did advocate a vegetarian diet for those who have a propensity towards the disease. I really couldn't ignore that, whether it was just science journal mumbo jumbo or fact based on studies, or whatever...for me it is also about my own health, not just saving the animals.

There are sooo many reasons that went into my decision, and I am still learning every day. But for me, once I went down the veg road, I found I couldn't turn back. Sure humans have adapted to eating meat, depending on what theory or argument you subscribe to, but for me the fact that I don't care for it, coupled with the thought that I could be possibly one of those humans who has not adapted to it and it might cause me to become fatally ill someday is enough for me to just keep it out of my system in the flesh form, anyway. I still eat food containing animal by-products, it's very tough to go all vegan imo, but those things are becoming fewer and far between in my diet as well.

ETA: Oh, and I don't know about people just in the last 100 years or so being vegetarians or conscious of what they were eating...Einstein (b. 1879) was a veg, Ghandi was a vegan...Pythagorus was a veg or vegan...all kinds of famous people throughout history have chosen not to eat meat for whatever reasons. Obviously there are different cultures all over the world who also consider eating meat unholy, etc. It's really interesting to research the topic and find out all kinds of trivia or whatever.

 

[Mara]

monnie i totally get what you are saying...i know there are people who just don't like meat or choose not to eat it for a specific health reason sure. i guess it's more for like those who do like it, i am always kind of like, why not just eat it and enjoy it rather than have this big guilt trip? someone is always eating someone else right?

that is how i kind of view it...fish eat other fish...mammals eat other mammals, mammals eat fish. i don't know if i really believe the whole us adapting to eating meat, almost every other living organism around us eats meat in some way/shape/form...why wouldn't it be natural for us.

it's just an interesting topic of conversation or thought process for me...i don't feel like anyone is right or wrong, i have great friends who are veggies and i eat a ton of veggies along with my meat (hehee) and have done no meat for a week or two weeks or similar, but in the end i just go back to meat and it seems like in the last few months i have just said welp i should just enjoy it..and my body likes it for it's masses of protein and i appreciate the energy it gives me.

 

[monarch64]

Mara, I know, it''s kind of different strokes for different folks and all that. I guess I''ve always been the type of personality who questions things or likes to think outside of the box (I think you are that way too, if I may)...and again, I''m not extreme, but DH is always asking me "why do you have to ''rock the boat'' or question things so much?" So that part of my being plays into my decision as well, I always think, well just because everyone else thinks it''s ok to do a or b why does that make it right for me if I don''t feel comfortable with it. And I know that is certainly felt by people who eat meat...like why should they change something they really enjoy just because someone brings up a point such as "why are you participating in something that is possibly inhumane" etc. It''s just all about perspective, really, any way you look at it. There really is no right or wrong, and I really don''t judge whether people are good or bad based on anything, esp. what they eat. I''m just enjoying my experiences in life as i think most people are, and I try not to get too wrapped up in my own opinions and whether they even matter in the long run, I like sharing them and learning about others'' as well, and I think that''s what is most enriching and entertaining about life in general!

 

[TravelingGal]

I agree...different strokes for different folks. Personally, I love meat, although I also try not to consume heaps of it. I couldn''t have it every day or anything. I also could not have married someone who didn''t eat meat, or was a picky eater in general.

One thing I find interesting is that I have had 3 pregnant friends who did not eat red meat for years. They had different reasons (one hated the taste, another said it grossed her out, and the last one just had stopped eating it just because one day). All three CRAVED meat in their pregnancies and continued to eat it afterward. I have to wonder if your body sometimes just tells you what you need, and when you are pregnant, those needs are more primitive and urgent? Don''t know if they needed iron or protein or what, but they really really wanted red meat. 2 out of 3 realized it when they wanted an In-N-Out burger.

When the most recent one got preggo, I put money down (figuratively) that she would eat meat. She said no way. I won.

 

[door knob solitaire]

I find it funny that most meat eaters say they must have MEAT protein. Have you ever noticed what the animal protein you eat...eats?

Cattle are vegetarians

Chicken are vegetarians

Pigs can be vegetarians (but are fed scraps of all sorts)

Just fun added fodder for conversation.

DKS

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 9/5/2007 12:45:19 AM
Author: Mara
i''m not a veggie but i wanted to chime in. i totally think everyone should eat whatever floats their boat, it''s their bodies, their lives etc.

i always wonder though, why sometimes people have such an issue with eating meat. i mean i can understand being against the horrible treatment of the animals in certain environments...but above and beyond that, what is really wrong with eating meat? historically the men went out and brought home the BACON. not the lettuce.

not to say necessarily that there isn''t a more enlightened way than what was done in the past or that there can''t be a change, but whenever i think about the argument for ''oh the lamb in the field is the lamb on the table'' i tend to think...gee glad that humans are at the top of the food chain (for now anyway!). someday that could be us being eaten by some other higher type of goshknowswhat. and i would imagine they aren''t going to think twice about eating us.

and would i really want them to? probably not.

monnie when you went veggie you had to talk yourself into imagining the whole bone/muscle/sinew thing to gross yourself out enough to not want to eat it. that makes me wonder, why did you want to go veggie in the first place if you had to talk yourself into it and work at it so hard?

i''m not trying to argue, i''m just always so curious about this. whenever i have gone on not eating meat kicks or eat less meat or whatever, i end up missing it typically...there is nothing that tastes like a cheeseburger or an excellent piece of filet, and i eat a ton of chicken and turkey. i can''t even imagine being veggie, even if i had to be i think i''d somehow feel like something was always missing. i can eat a meal without meat, no biggie, or two meals or three meals, but eventually i do feel that craving for protein and not milk proteins, but more like meat proteins.

anyway, luckystar...i can hear what you are saying about wanting to eat less meat...but i don''t feel like people should have to talk themselves into it. i mean if you want to go veggie, go veggie. i definitely don''t have any sadness seeing a fish on the hook, or a chicken running around or whatever. i''m probably thinking more on how i am going to marinate it and grill it. hehe. it''s so interesting to me that it is really only in the last how many years people have started to have this ''conscience'' when it comes to meat. think in the early 1900''s the women ever stopped to consider the chicken''s feelings before they killed it for dinner? no way. they had to eat.

i also think our bodies need that type of protein...all the other types that are out there are not the same as the meat proteins. they have even done studies that show recently that soy protein doesn''t build the same type of muscle that other proteins do. anyway kind of interesting.

Mmmmm Hamburgggggerrrrr. Lol!
I don''t know. I don''t think I can really answer your question. I guess I''m just more sensitive than normal when it comes to animals? I can''t imagine why anyone would want to become a vegetarian for any reason other than they don''t like the taste of meat or they''ve made the animal/plate correlation. I just wonder if it''s easy to give up...that''s my big thing. Is meat an addiction, or can I just give it up if I decide that I like animals more than I like eating them? I guess that''s what I really wanted to know.

I do wonder about the old days when Native American women would have to clean the animal and never thought about it being alive. I''ve always loved animals though. How weird. I have no idea why I''m so sensitive to the fact that the animal used to be alive. TV? Media or some sort? It''s not like I grew up on a farm. I guess I can just say that while I''ve always enjoyed the taste of meat, but I''ve never enjoyed eating it. If that makes sense.

Oh I know for sure I could never be a complete vegan. No way. Heck, half the vegans I know aren''t even vegan! Hypocrites I tell you! Hypocrites!

 

[monarch64]

Date: 9/5/2007 1:58:32 AM
Author: TravelingGal
I agree...different strokes for different folks. Personally, I love meat, although I also try not to consume heaps of it. I couldn''t have it every day or anything. I also could not have married someone who didn''t eat meat, or was a picky eater in general.

One thing I find interesting is that I have had 3 pregnant friends who did not eat red meat for years. They had different reasons (one hated the taste, another said it grossed her out, and the last one just had stopped eating it just because one day). All three CRAVED meat in their pregnancies and continued to eat it afterward. I have to wonder if your body sometimes just tells you what you need, and when you are pregnant, those needs are more primitive and urgent? Don''t know if they needed iron or protein or what, but they really really wanted red meat. 2 out of 3 realized it when they wanted an In-N-Out burger.

When the most recent one got preggo, I put money down (figuratively) that she would eat meat. She said no way. I won.

That is really interesting, TGal! I wonder if it is definitely the primative meat craving as in iron, protein, etc., or other aspects like the flavoring, like the grease or fat or whatever...not being gross but when you mention in-n-out burgers I wonder if it has anything to do with that taste, i.e., chargrilled/greasy taste. I still crave Burger King and get the veggie burger because I love the sort of meat flavorings that go along with it, plus the condiments and bun...plus the texture is kinda close to actual meat, lol! (or cardboard...hee hee) Hmmm, will have to survey friends of mine who didn''t eat meat for a long time as well and then switched back to eating it during pregnancies, I have two of those and will ask them. One gal started back with meat because she craved hot dogs, ha!

I guess my roundabout question is, is it the protein/iron thang, or is it the taste of the additives? maybe you and the PG''s are right, it is the body''s way of telling you to get more of something you''re missing nutritionally.

 

[luckystar112]

I dunno. My mom told me the only thing she craved when she was pregnant with me were twizzlers and soda.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/5/2007 2:05:22 AM
Author: door knob solitaire
I find it funny that most meat eaters say they must have MEAT protein. Have you ever noticed what the animal protein you eat...eats?

Cattle are vegetarians

Chicken are vegetarians

Pigs can be vegetarians (but are fed scraps of all sorts)

Just fun added fodder for conversation.

DKS

DKS, have you SEEN some of the stuff that''s lower down on the food chain? If I were the animals you listed above, I''d be a vegetarian too!

Monarch, you might be right...might be more of a grease thing. But if that is the case, I wonder why they all graduate to filet mignons, instead of just sticking with burgers? Hmmmm...

 

[door knob solitaire]

LS...meat consumption isn''t an addiction. It is a habit. Mara for example is citing her specific desires she plans on having on her plate or enjoys having on her plate. You don''t crave an In Out Burger if you have never had one. I am not from that region so I have no previous knowledge of one...I will never crave an INOUT. Many people won''t crave White Castles...

As a kid my mother made spaghetti and meat sauce. It was fabulous. Cooked all day. Since 1985-86 I haven''t eaten meat...but I still can remember piling mounds of Kraft parmesan cheese on top of that steaming mound of heaven. I don''t yearn for the meat...just the flavor of the conglomeration of flavors she combined. If I lived near her I would have her make it with my soy and it would fill that yearning of my youth.

Meat isn''t like nicotine or alcohol etc. It is an acquired habit of consumption. Anyone else agree?

DKS

 

[monarch64]

Date: 9/5/2007 2:19:43 AM
Author: door knob solitaire
LS...meat consumption isn''t an addiction. It is a habit. Mara for example is citing her specific desires she plans on having on her plate or enjoys having on her plate. You don''t crave an In Out Burger if you have never had one. I am not from that region so I have no previous knowledge of one...I will never crave an INOUT. Many people won''t crave White Castles...

As a kid my mother made spaghetti and meat sauce. It was fabulous. Cooked all day. Since 1985-86 I haven''t eaten meat...but I still can remember piling mounds of Kraft parmesan cheese on top of that steaming mound of heaven. I don''t yearn for the meat...just the flavor of the conglomeration of flavors she combined. If I lived near her I would have her make it with my soy and it would fill that yearning of my youth.

Meat isn''t like nicotine or alcohol etc. It is an acquired habit of consumption. Anyone else agree?

DKS

Sometimes my mother made hamburger helper...I used to painstakingly pick out all the ground beef and just eat the noodles, lol! Oh, I got in so much trouble for that sometimes. I also had a bad habit of feeding the couch my cubed steaks or burgers, hee hee. Unfortunately we had "outside" dogs and no one took care of the "remains" until they started to become aromatically evident.

Sheesh, my poor mother...

 

[Mara]

DKS i read an article recently about cravings from a nutrition perspective and it said that typically when you have a craving.... not a 'want' craving but a 'need' craving, that your body is missing a nutrient of some sort. and your MIND substitutes what it would like to fill that need. aka craving french fries? then you probably are craving some sort of nutrient potatoes have (not sure what!?)...craving chocolate? it has a nutrient that our bodies want but our mind thinks mmm chocolate because our body knows that chocolate has satisfied that need in the past. i would imagine when i am craving a cheeseburger (like yesterday, i swear a burger sounded so darn good but i really wanted to get the dungeness crab salad, but i just wanted to sink my teeth into some meat!! greg gave me half his burger and i just ate the meat and then also ate my crab salad hehe) that my body wants the protein and the iron but my mind thinks mmm cheeseburger. so i think you are right in that if we don't ever have something, we won't know to CRAVE it...but our bodies do crave nutrients that certain 'desirable' foods (mentally desirable to us that is) are known to have. so i would imagine that if we had never had an in n'out burger or chocolate or whatever, our bodies would have this need for the nutrient but maybe not know how to convey it to us? interesting train of thought anyway.

monnie i am the type of person who likes to question things for sure. i am always like 'why is this that way' or 'who thought of that' or 'what if i do this that way'...that's why i also say just because humans have eaten meat for many many years, it doesn't mean that there aren't better ways. however, i find it interesting when some people who are veggie and eat the best veggie type of diet cannot get all their proteins or nutritionists tell them to try to eat meat or whatever.

i have also been doing this lower carb, lower sugar, higher protein thing recently and while i am not a 'meat lover' (aka i typically don't think, oh my god i really want a big slab of meat right now), suddenly in the last few weeks (last few months moreso), i am seriously craving chicken...like greek or indian chicken kebabs. i could just eat that some days all day. this wkd we went to this festival and all i could think of was a thai chicken kebab, i got it and scarfed it down and it was soooo good. so i wonder if maybe feeding my body more protein over the last few months has gotten it to kind of crave it? i am kind of anemic sometimes as well so maybe the iron really does me good. who knows, it's all just speculation in my opinion, but it's kinda fun.

that said sometimes i do eat a steak or hamburger meat or something and i think, this tastes kinda gross. maybe it has to do with the quality of meat. i have had some burgers that are just flat out amazing tasting and i think it's the freshness and quality of the meat itself. however, i really don't like 'gamey' meats like lamb or venison or things like that, greg loves them and he always wants me to taste things and i am always like...yak...totally not into it. the only meats i really eat are chicken, turkey, beef, and sometimes pork but it's not my fave.

lucky...in terms of the native americans eating what they killed, i think a lot of it has to do with how 'available' food is to everyone now in america especially. there's so much food everywhere, there are all these CHOICES that people didn't have before. so many alternatives...whereas i think in the old days it was like whatever you grew...or tended or farmed, you just ate.

oh and when my mom was preggo with me all she craved was coke and ice cream sundaes. i have her to thank for my sweet tooth.

hehee.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I saw a bumper sticker the other day:

VEGETARIAN
Indian word for "poor hunter"