Me, the Democrat and my boyfriend, the Republican

[FrekeChild]

Very well said diamondfan!!

 

[diamondfan]

Thanks. I am so tired that I made a few typos but hey, the point remains the same, bad typing or not.

I know we can be a super great nation once again. I really do. Not sure who I think can take us there, as to me it is a group effort for the most part. We all have a role to play!

 

[FrekeChild]

They are only typos. I hope you can get some sleep, insomnia sucks. But you knew that.

I totally agree. It is going to take a huge group effort.

 

[miraclesrule]

I sooooooooooo want to respond to this thread, but I really do have to have clean knickers for my business trip tomorrow.

I always thought the best reality show would be the home life of James Carville and Mary Matlin (or whatever her name is). Also, many of my friends who are married and have talked to other friends that are on dating sites, say that they would have never met their SO if they woul have had to check a list, including their political beliefs. So many of them are opposites.

I, on the other hand, don''t know about that. If someone lists that they are "ultra-conservative", then I have a tendency to steer clear, but that is because "extremists" of any kind tend to unnerve me. But one of the best boyfriends I was ever with had a strong opposing viewpoint (we broke up over the TinyWinky scandal), and it ultimately doomed us, especially since my father was gay and had AIDS. But I digress....

As far as social programs, capitalism sounds great if everyone is born with the same talents and opportunities as everyone else, but that is not the reality. Life is not simplistic. So, do we kick a kid with Down''s Syndrome to the curb, because he can''t be a productive member of society? Or someone who is born or becomes seriously disabled...say...after a car accident or war injury?

And, who is responsible for the policing of opportunist capitalists like those of Enron? I can understand both points of view. Ideally, we could and should be able to make responsible choices with our resources. But realistically, not everyne is responsible and has fairness as a principal.

There is a fine line between lending a hand to those when the chips are down, and becoming an enabler. But as far as welfare goes, corporations get more welfare than all citizens combined. Competition would seem to be beneficial, but then you get price fixing, collusion and/or a monopoly. Rational minds are what we need because there is no "one size fits all" no matter how much one wishes there was.

Most regulation occurred because there was an abuse of power within those organizations that provided the necessities of life, such as communication, energy, and finance. I think that the PS''ers are bright individuals. I think we can all agree that our world offers sufficient resources for meeting everyone''s basic needs. The scarity experience by some arises because we have not designed social structures to meet everyone''s need. Some wise people have opined that we can attribute any apparent scarcity to a current systemic limitation, a crisis of imagination or a lack of skills for fostering connection and communication. Therefore, I toss out this question....

If you could create the ideal social structure, what would it look like?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/9/2008 11:27:54 PM
Author: miraclesrule
I sooooooooooo want to respond to this thread, but I really do have to have clean knickers for my business trip tomorrow.

I always thought the best reality show would be the home life of James Carville and Mary Matlin (or whatever her name is). Also, many of my friends who are married and have talked to other friends that are on dating sites, say that they would have never met their SO if they woul have had to check a list, including their political beliefs. So many of them are opposites.

I, on the other hand, don''t know about that. If someone lists that they are ''ultra-conservative'', then I have a tendency to steer clear, but that is because ''extremists'' of any kind tend to unnerve me. But one of the best boyfriends I was ever with had a strong opposing viewpoint (we broke up over the TinyWinky scandal), and it ultimately doomed us, especially since my father was gay and had AIDS. But I digress....

As far as social programs, capitalism sounds great if everyone is born with the same talents and opportunities as everyone else, but that is not the reality. Life is not simplistic. So, do we kick a kid with Down''s Syndrome to the curb, because he can''t be a productive member of society? Or someone who is born or becomes seriously disabled...say...after a car accident or war injury?

And, who is responsible for the policing of opportunist capitalists like those of Enron? I can understand both points of view. Ideally, we could and should be able to make responsible choices with our resources. But realistically, not everyne is responsible and has fairness as a principal.

There is a fine line between lending a hand to those when the chips are down, and becoming an enabler. But as far as welfare goes, corporations get more welfare than all citizens combined. Competition would seem to be beneficial, but then you get price fixing, collusion and/or a monopoly. Rational minds are what we need because there is no ''one size fits all'' no matter how much one wishes there was.

Most regulation occurred because there was an abuse of power within those organizations that provided the necessities of life, such as communication, energy, and finance. I think that the PS''ers are bright individuals. I think we can all agree that our world offers sufficient resources for meeting everyone''s basic needs. The scarity experience by some arises because we have not designed social structures to meet everyone''s need. Some wise people have opined that we can attribute any apparent scarcity to a current systemic limitation, a crisis of imagination or a lack of skills for fostering connection and communication. Therefore, I toss out this question....

If you could create the ideal social structure, what would it look like?

Um, heaven? Because I don''t think "ideal" exists on this planet. As DF said earlier, I am very thankful to be in this country. But it is hard to fix the problems we have because they are so ingrained.

 

[Delster]

Date: 6/9/2008 1:12:58 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I forgot to add that those policies which are enacted by the states should not come from taxes that are unconstitutional like the income tax...whether it is state or federal.

Thanks for explaining, this is really interesting. I didn't know income tax was unconstitutional in the States. You do have social welfare-ish tax though right? I remember being taxed when I worked in the States and I'm sure I was told it was a social welfare type tax. Could that money could go to a public healthcare system?

(Obviously I could be way wrong about that tax and please educate me if I am!

)

ETA - never mind, I just read the rest of the thread. My bad. I will gobble humble pie for not reading on before replying. Leaving my original (ignorant!) post up there as I'm still curious about those taxes I paid on my paycheck in the States...

This is a very enjoyable debate and a very unusual one to someone looking through the filter of living in a high income tax state. We have a huge constitutional referendum about a new EU treaty coming up on Thursday and one of they key issues the 'No' campaign is actually focusing on is that the new treaty may give the EU the right to level Europe-wide taxes. Interesting stuff for sure.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/9/2008 11:54:09 AM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 6/9/2008 11:37:13 AM
Author: luckystar112
Your boyfriend and I would get along very well. lol

ETA: I disagree with him on the healthcare issue. I think everyone is entitled to healthcare. Especially working citizens!

What makes Health Care so different from Education? Is it not a right to receive a proper education?

not for illegal alliens and their kids

i want to see those $$$''s spent on our citizens and legal alliens.

 

[pennquaker09]

Date: 6/10/2008 7:43:31 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/9/2008 11:54:09 AM

Author: Starset Princess

Date: 6/9/2008 11:37:13 AM

Author: luckystar112

Your boyfriend and I would get along very well. lol


ETA: I disagree with him on the healthcare issue. I think everyone is entitled to healthcare. Especially working citizens!

What makes Health Care so different from Education? Is it not a right to receive a proper education?

not for illegal alliens and their kids

i want to see those $$$'s spent on our citizens and legal alliens.

I'd like to think that I am a fairly intelligent person, but I really don't understand why people don't want others to immigrate to the US. I feel like there is a reason that people want to come here. I've always felt that way. Sure, I do have a huge problem with Spanish speaking immigrants not learning English, but I really think it's just kind of selfish. Maybe I'm wrong . . . I don't know. For me it's not a political thing, it's just something I personally feel in my heart.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/10/2008 7:43:31 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/9/2008 11:54:09 AM
Author: Starset Princess

Date: 6/9/2008 11:37:13 AM
Author: luckystar112
Your boyfriend and I would get along very well. lol

ETA: I disagree with him on the healthcare issue. I think everyone is entitled to healthcare. Especially working citizens!

What makes Health Care so different from Education? Is it not a right to receive a proper education?

not for illegal alliens and their kids

i want to see those $$$''s spent on our citizens and legal alliens.

Fine. So one fine summer Mr. and Mrs. Hernandez come to the states with their two children. They take up residence in Chicago and they both become employeed and they work long hours. Come school time it costs $250 each for those kids to attend public school. Mr. and Mrs. Hernandez have the money but the children are denied enrollment because Americans don''t want to see our tax dollars spent on illegal aliens. So what do those children do? No one is going to notice that Mr. and Mrs. Hernandez are illegal so they keep working, earning a good reputation. Meanwhile those kids probably find a place that will employ them because they can''t sit at home all day. But when they grow up they have job skills with no education. They were never taught to read and write their own language, to speak English, or learn math... And the cycle starts for their family in America.

I want to see our money spent in America for Americans. It''s not that we should isolate illegal aliens and deny them the right to attend school or see a doctor or drive a car or rent a house... For me it comes down to What does it take to make them a US citizen? It''s merely a piece of paper which tracks them and makes them accountable for paying taxes on income like the rest of us.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i''am tire of hearing about amnesty....

my grandfather, my father,my brother, my sister and i became a U.S. citizen the legal way. tell Mr. and Mrs. Hernandez go through the legal system.

 

[Erin]

Amnesty is one thing.

What about the penalty for Americans who hire them? Sanctuary policies? George Bush's Nanny?

What about border control? If a bank robber knows that he won't be punished for robbing a bank, he'll tell all his friends, Hey rob this bank.....

 

[Dancing Fire]

here''s what i''am against...

higher taxes on individuals and corporations.
amnasty for illegal aliens.
the whole NASA program (big waste of taxpayers money)

here''s what i''am for....
drilling for oil in our own backyard.
a strong U.S dollar.
welfare recipients must service the public. no free money sitting at home.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/10/2008 9:49:40 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
here's what i'am against...

higher taxes on individuals and corporations.
amnasty for illegal aliens.
the whole NASA program (big waste of taxpayers money)

here's what i'am for....
drilling for oil in our own backyard.
a strong U.S dollar.
welfare recipients must service the public. no free money sitting at home.

I agree. Before we raise taxes we should learn how to be more penny-wise with the money already being generated. But that's a government overhaul. We are in deep-$h!t RIGHT NOW. What do we do about right now?

We're going to have to do something about border control for the future, but as far as RIGHT NOW we have to do something to make them pay their fair share of taxes since they are already consuming our government resources - schools, jails, hospitals, social security????

You're probably right. What does the average American gain from NASA? Satellites?

We could destroy every last wilderness area in the country, but we will never be able to drill our way to oil independence. We have to wean ourselves off oil.

At this moment we have opened ourselves up to the global economy. Outsourcing, buying cheaper parts for manufacturing, our dollar weakens. But that means other countries can better afford our stuff because We are the weak economy so our goal should be for other countries to buy our products, and more of them. Eventually that pendulum will swing back and our dollar will rise. We just have to be active participators in the global economy and make it work FOR US.

Great idea. Why don't we? Juveniles have to do community service instead of 'serving time.'

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/9/2008 10:00:13 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/9/2008 9:38:34 PM
Author: ksinger

Date: 6/9/2008 9:16:56 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/9/2008 7:41:28 PM
Author: ksinger

Date: 6/9/2008 1:12:58 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I forgot to add that those policies which are enacted by the states should not come from taxes that are unconstitutional like the income tax...whether it is state or federal.

You miiiight want to ask Wesley Snipes about that one. And you might want to actually read the document that contains this:

Amendment XVI

The sixteenth amendment, adopted by the sixty-first Congress, held in 1909, was reatified by thirty-eight of the forty-eight states, and made a part of the Constitution, February 25, 1913.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

God I LOVE being married to a history/government teacher.....he gave me my very own pocket Constitution, just like Dennis Kucinich....

Oh, it''s most definitely an amendment--the arguments are around the constitutionality of the 16th amendment, which was never properly ratified. Nor does the 16th amendment say anything about taxing individual incomes vs. incomes as a whole. The latter point is completley moot to me, though, considering that I think it''s unconstitutional to report one''s income at all. People''s incomes have nothing to do with the government and I think to force us to report them is a blatent violation of the 5th amendment. I would also attest, though I don''t really hear this argument even from Ron Paul (who agrees the 16th amendment is unconstitutional), that the 16th amendment is in direct violation of the 13th amendment, which outlaws all forced, unpaid labor...yet four months out of the year I work solely for the government without seeing my wages against my wishes. So yes, it''s an amendment, but it''s not constitutional. I think everybody should carry a copy of the constitution with them, but more so know it and care about it.

Sorry, but it doesn''t matter what you think in this matter. What you think will not change the fact that it''s in the constitution, and is treated as legitimate by the courts and the legislative body. At the very least it is the de facto law of the land and while it may give you pleasure to grouse about how unfair it all is, it''s a complete waste of time. We should at least be dealing in the politcs of the possible, not fantasy. Of all the things in this thread, tilting at the windmill that is the income tax is about the most fruitless and moot.

Wesley Snipes Gets 3 Years for Not Filing Tax Returns

Wow, KSinger, thanks a lot. I''ve spent years reading books about the constitution and its founders and forming what I believe is a fair and educated argument, but my beliefs are ''a waste of time'' and not politics, but ''fantasy''. How more than $300 billion collected in income taxes is ''fruitless and moot'' is beyond me.

I believe in what this country was founded on--that we have a right to our property and that we shouldn''t work for the government, but that the government should work for us. Obviously people being protected FROM the government is something that was important to our founders considering that is the SOLE purpose of our Bill of Rights. I get that nobody cares anymore, that the amendments are simply something to look up when trying to argue about the constitutionality of the income tax instead of KNOWING them by heart, but that doesn''t mean I have to stop caring.

No, I don''t think like the rest of the flock, but it doesn''t make my beliefs any less valid. And believe it or not, just because the court rules something does not mean it''s right.

Peace out, I''m done with the political threads. I have no interest in swaying others'' opinions--I''ve formed my opinions by reading tons and tons of books from both sides, but I don''t find it fun to be ridiculed for things I believe in.

NEL - I just want to say that of course your beliefs are valid and are certainly not a waste of time. Anyone who would truly think differently loses all credibilty, IMHO.

 

[Erin]

Date: 6/10/2008 1:24:57 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 6/9/2008 10:00:13 PM

Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/9/2008 9:38:34 PM

Author: ksinger

Date: 6/9/2008 9:16:56 PM

Author: NewEnglandLady

Date: 6/9/2008 7:41:28 PM

Author: ksinger

No, I don''t think like the rest of the flock, but it doesn''t make my beliefs any less valid. And believe it or not, just because the court rules something does not mean it''s right.


Peace out, I''m done with the political threads. I have no interest in swaying others'' opinions--I''ve formed my opinions by reading tons and tons of books from both sides, but I don''t find it fun to be ridiculed for things I believe in.

NEL - I just want to say that of course your beliefs are valid and are certainly not a waste of time. Anyone who would truly think differently loses all credibilty, IMHO.

I agree. Whether or not my opinion is being swayed, I appreciate your input and have been learning from you - which is first and foremost what I set out to do.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/10/2008 10:11:38 AM
Author: Starset Princess

We could destroy every last wilderness area in the country, but we will never be able to drill our way to oil independence. We have to wean ourselves off oil.

we have the technology to dill for oil w/o harming the wilderness.

 

[Selkie]

Date: 6/10/2008 1:53:47 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/10/2008 10:11:38 AM

Author: Starset Princess



We could destroy every last wilderness area in the country, but we will never be able to drill our way to oil independence. We have to wean ourselves off oil.

we have the technology to dill for oil w/o harming the wilderness.

So say the oil companies. Anyway, that doesn't invalidate the rest of Starset's point. If we start drilling everywhere we POSSIBLY can in the US, it will
a) take 10-20 years to start producing anything
b) produce only about 2 million barrels per day. For comparison, we currently produce 8.5 million BPD. The Middle East, altogether produces 18.7 million barrels per day.
c) not even necessarily get sold in the US, since the oil companies insist on selling on the international market (FREE ENTERPRISE, remember?)
d) Not last a significant amount of time to make any difference in the world market.

Oh, and speaking of amnesty and unfair tax laws, WHY are the oil companies still getting huge tax breaks?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/10/2008 2:00:10 PM
Author: Selkie

Date: 6/10/2008 1:53:47 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/10/2008 10:11:38 AM

Author: Starset Princess




We could destroy every last wilderness area in the country, but we will never be able to drill our way to oil independence. We have to wean ourselves off oil.

we have the technology to dill for oil w/o harming the wilderness.

So say the oil companies. Anyway, that doesn''t invalidate the rest of Starset''s point. If we start drilling everywhere we POSSIBLY can in the US, it will
a) take 10-20 years to start producing anything
b) produce only about 2 million barrels per day. For comparison, we currently produce 8.5 million BPD. The Middle East, altogether produces 18.7 million barrels per day.
c) not even necessarily get sold in the US, since the oil companies insist on selling on the international market (FREE ENTERPRISE, remember?)
d) Not last a significant amount of time to make any difference in the world market.

Oh, and speaking of amnesty and unfair tax laws, WHY are the oil companies still getting huge tax breaks?

a) we said that 15 yrs ago and here we are 15 yrs later

b) i think once we get going,we can do more than 2 mil barrels per day
c) oil Co''s don''t own the oils...the oil rich government does. who cares whom they sell it to if we don''t depend on their oil.

if oil Co''s don''t get tax breaks....who''s gonna put up the money for research llike wind power,solar power,etc...?

 

[iheartscience]

Well, whether we drill for oil in the U.S. or not, the bottom line is that oil is a finite resource. We will run out of oil pretty soon, and destroying wildlife reserves is really not the answer to that problem. Other types of fuel need to be developed, and they will now that oil has become so expensive.

When there was the oil crisis in the 70s, car manufacturers started producing cars that got much higher gas mileage than previous cars. Then prices leveled off, and everyone forgot about the crisis. Car companies started producing over sized SUVs and consumers started snapping them up. Now that oil prices are so high, car companies are being forced to make changes. Alternative energy sources are going to be the only energy sources soon.

Anyways, Starset, I really don''t know that I could be with someone with completely opposing views. I do wish you the best of luck, though!

 

[diamondfan]

Look, this is a great country. And many countries are terrible to live in, especially for women. I totally get why people would want to come here. And it is NOT that simple to come here legally, and post 9/11 it is even tougher. Of course, I do not want the criminals and terrorists from other countries here. I am talking only of good decent hard working people, who, btw, often take the jobs that no American would deign to take. It is hard to say I want money diverted to non US citizens from US citizens, but again, if money were spent well and we allowed workers in who were good people, we could let them work legally and take some money in taxes. I feel the US is a melting pot, and there are good people wanting to come here for a better chance. I doubt we will ever be able to truly stop illegal immigration, so why not have some way of granting those decent people the ability to live here and make it a win win situation?

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 6/11/2008 12:35:32 AM
Author: diamondfan
Look, this is a great country. And many countries are terrible to live in, especially for women. I totally get why people would want to come here. And it is NOT that simple to come here legally, and post 9/11 it is even tougher. Of course, I do not want the criminals and terrorists from other countries here. I am talking only of good decent hard working people, who, btw, often take the jobs that no American would deign to take. It is hard to say I want money diverted to non US citizens from US citizens, but again, if money were spent well and we allowed workers in who were good people, we could let them work legally and take some money in taxes. I feel the US is a melting pot, and there are good people wanting to come here for a better chance. I doubt we will ever be able to truly stop illegal immigration, so why not have some way of granting those decent people the ability to live here and make it a win win situation?

I totally agree with you, diamondfan! I really can''t stand it when people bitch and moan about illegal immigrants. I feel like they''re just a scapegoat for many people for all of the problems the US is facing right now.

 

[diamondfan]

Well, they are easy to blame. If our economy were great, we would not be so concerned with decent people wanting a chance to have a better life. I have traveled pretty extensively and seen terrible poverty and deprivation. For someone to come here from some of these countries and take what is essentially a menial job in the US, it can make all of the difference in the world to their family back home. They can come here and in a month make more than they made in year back home, and the work here is likely less back breaking. Again, I am not saying just open our borders and say Hi and welcome, in the post 9/11 world especially we cannot be sitting ducks. But I am sure there are ways to be more selective and careful as to who we grant visas and citizenship to, at least I hope so!!! I have empathy for those people willing to risk their lives to come here so they can earn some money, which gets sent home to support an entire family.

 

[luckystar112]

Hey, I'm all for coming to America to make a better life. But I really don't agree with the argument that they do jobs that Americans won't. I come from the whitest state in America, and believe me---our lawns were mowed, our sewers cleaned, our trash taken to the dump, our gutters emptied....every job you see on dirty jobs, actually.

ETA: I hear that argument a lot, DF, and I'm wondering if anyone knows where it originated from? Am I missing something? Is there some big study or survey somewhere that confirms that American's won't do these jobs? Was there a poll taken while I was in the bathroom?

I hope you don't take my silliness the wrong way...but I really want to know! Does America really believe that, and has it been proven somehow? I understand that immigrants tend to work for lower wages than what is "acceptable" to other people...but is that more than the kid down the street? Surely not ALL kids down the street are too pretentious to mow a law for 10 bucks every couple of weeks? At least not while I was in school (not even a decade ago)!

 

[FrekeChild]

I don't know about you luckystar, but where I come from, no high school kid picks fruit or vegetables at a farm, unless his parents are the owner of that farm. I know lots of cooks and dishwashers that are of questionable legal status, and have yet to lay eyes on a gardening high schooler as well. Of course, being in a border state where more than 50% of the population is Hispanic (and a lot of that would be Mexican) doesn't hurt. I think that in the big cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami) and in agricultural areas (NM, Texas, California) where immigrants can get work easily because they'll work for cheaper wages than high school kids, things are very different.

My cousin's son-at the age of ten will not do anything for less than ten dollars an hour (granted, he's a spoiled brat). Compare that to the wage you can pay under the table to an illegal immigrant of 8 dollars an hour and you're starting to save a lot of money. Most high school aged kids I know want to work at the mall or at minimum fast food restaurants-you don't see them picking corn or green chiles.

Which, if you ask me, is a bit of a disgrace...

I don't know of any studies though.

ETA: None of this was meant to sound smarmy. I apologize if it comes off that way.

 

[diamondfan]

Well, I know that when they ask teens about summer jobs and stuff like that, they roll their eyes at some things. I could not tell you where the research is all contained, but I would assume there have been studies about the labor force, the impact of illegal immigration on the US economy etc...as for me, anecdotally I have NEVER been in a hotel in the US and had an American person cleaning my room. I have rarely seen bus boys who are American. And none of the gardening or landscaping crews used by the company I employ (except the owner and his brother) are American. I also grew up in So. Cal so I saw a lot of it there as well. Nearly every car wash and restaurant I went to has immigrant workers in the more menial jobs. I am not trying to generalize, but many Americans do not want to take menial jobs as they view it as a step down, whereas many immigrants are willing to work at them as it is financially a large gain for them when calculated against what they would earn back home.

 

[luckystar112]

I see what you gals are saying.
But still...I live in Houston right now and I can send you a link to my housing development''s website where all the teens are looking for jobs in the neighborhood..mowing grass, dog walking, pet sitting, babysitting, etc. Not sure what their RATES are, but....
Also, things are obviously a lot different where I''m from...I worked as a chambermaid at a hotel, as did all my friends. We all worked fast-food, landscaping, etc. And actually, there is a school way up north that would let students take a week off from school to go potato picking! So I don''t know...I guess it''s a different world up there!

 

[diamondfan]

I am not saying that is not so for you. But I lived in So. Cal for almost my whole life and go to NY all of the time, and I even see it here in Philly. Outside of Philly is a huge population of migrant workers in the produce fields near Kennett Square. In the big cities where you have the largest influx (LA, NY, Chicago, Miami etc) I think it is more apparent. But I am not saying NO Americans have ever taken any of those jobs, just that historically more immigrants are willing to that type of work. And in my travels I would say most of the time it is not Americans I see busing tables and cleaning hotel rooms.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/11/2008 1:55:42 AM
Author: luckystar112
I see what you gals are saying.
But still...I live in Houston right now and I can send you a link to my housing development''s website where all the teens are looking for jobs in the neighborhood..mowing grass, dog walking, pet sitting, babysitting, etc. Not sure what their RATES are, but....
Also, things are obviously a lot different where I''m from...I worked as a chambermaid at a hotel, as did all my friends. We all worked fast-food, landscaping, etc. And actually, there is a school way up north that would let students take a week off from school to go potato picking! So I don''t know...I guess it''s a different world up there!

Are you from MA? My husband grew up there and spent a summer picking cucumbers when he was a teen. I''m originally from WV - and that state''s lifeblood is manual labor (construction, landscaping, coal mining). Corps like hiring illegal immigrants because not only can they pay them a lesser wage, but they don''t have to pay into Unemployment Compensation, Worker''s Comp, or provide Wage Bonds (assuming they don''t get caught). In WV - this doesn''t happen very often - the state govt is quick to sniff them out, issue a cease and desist to the job site and report the illegal workers to ICE. There is no tolerance there - because West Virginians need those jobs.

 

[luckystar112]

Close! Maine.
My FI is from Virginia and he said that over the last 3-4 years or so there has been a huge increase in immigrants in the state, and apparently it''s causing a bit of an uproar in the smaller towns.

 

[FrekeChild]

While I was reading my stupid Marx stuff (ok, it''s not STUPID, but it''s not exactly riveting) I started thinking about this stuff instead of Marxist theories-which actually has a bit to do with the subject at hand-but no comment there.

Anyway, I began thinking about those celebrities who get busted for having factories overseas with workers making 5 cents a day (or whatever it is) with horrible work conditions, and we all have been exposed to news stories where they emphasize that labor is cheap overseas and in Central/South America. That stuff made me realize: NO wonder they are all trying to get here! I wouldn''t want to work for pennies either when I can make thousands of times that in the USA!

I used to work with a prep cook (his name was Ignacio) who was a legal immigrant from Mexico. We worked for a chain restaurant-like Applebee''s, kind of. He worked 40+ hours a week there, and the more time I talked to him the more I learned about him. He was also working 40 hours a week as a prep cook at another restaurant (think similar to Panda Express) and besides what it took for him to live-he sent all of his money back to Mexico where he was supporting his extended family completely. He worked in restaurants so that he could get free food and send the savings to his family. He was at our restaurant every single morning at 6am except on the weekends-and Sunday was his only day off. The work ethic that guy has is amazing-he could carry on a conversation while preparing everything-and usually 2 things at once. I saw him the other day at his other workplace and he''s still at it just as hard as he was when I worked with him.

I think I''m with DiamondFan on the immigration subject.