++++ MAISIE++++? ??

[Independent Gal]

I had forgotten that you went through a similar trial with James'' twin (if I''m now remembering correctly) as I''m going through at the moment with our twins. I wondered, if it''s not too hard to talk about, if you might be willing to share something about your experience. What helped? What made it worse? What were the hardest parts? When did you start to feel better?

I don''t really know anyone in my ''real'' circle of friends who has been through anything like this and I''m feeling a little isolated. The idea of going on a forum where I don''t ''know'' anyone doesn''t appeal to me either.

Thank you, sincerely, for anything you might be able to tell me to help me and my husband through this.

 

[Maisie]

Hi Indy

My heart has been breaking for you both since I found out what has been happening. I have been praying for a miracle.

My situation was slightly different in that I had to carry the twin that had died till the end of the pregnancy. It was truly awful knowing that she was in there and I kept hoping that they had made a mistake. That was such a bad idea. I think I didn''t face up to the truth. Nobody would talk to me about it and that made it far worse. My husband just didn''t feel like I did. It was happening to me, to my body and he found it a lot easier to do practical things. He found me to be hard work in the early days.

I think looking back that grief counselling would really have helped me. I refused to go - kept saying I couldn''t talk it over with strangers. I think I could have benefitted from talking it through with other women who had been through similar things.

I didn''t hold her when she was born. I couldn''t bring myself to touch her either. I regret that now. I wish I could go back and change that. Looking at photos is hard but I am glad I have them.

I have found it hard to let go. I have what I call my ''Madison Box'' with little things that I had bought for her. I get it out from time to time and look through it. It does help me to know that she isn''t forgotten and I will never get rid of the box. I remember her everyday. I don''t think a single day has gone by in 4 years that I didn''t think about her at least once in the day.

Thinking about what might have been is a big stumbling block. I see children that are about the same age as she would be and it makes me think what she might have looked like or talked like. I wish I could stop but its hard.

I asked my husband to have a vascetomy after it was all over. That was a huge mistake. I really am broody now. Time heals and I think I would have had another baby.

I believe that I have learned to be a better mother. I cherish my children so much more and I am blessed to have them. I thought my spirit was broken the day I found out she had died... but I have come through it.

If there is anything you want to ask please do. I will be as supportive and helpful as I can for you.

 

[Maisie]

These are things out of her box.. if they distress you I will ask admin to remove them..

 

[Maisie]

...

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Maisie...

I don''t know if it''s okay to comment on this topic...but, I think your "Madison Box" is a beautiful tribute, and a beautiful way to remember your little girl.

 

[Independent Gal]

Maisie, thank you so much for sharing these things with me. I can't even imagine how you got through that. This is hard enough but carrying Madison like that just sounds like it would take beyond super-human strength and endurance. I suppose we each never know the limits of our strength until we are forced to test them, and sometimes we surprise ourselves. And your love and concern for James must have steeled you. You are a super-hero Maisie. Just think what you did for your son.

The box is beautiful. The head of the specialist practice told us that they would be making a box for us for our boys with a picture and their footprints. I wasn't sure I would want to have that around so I'm glad to hear that it seems to help you. I will put the booties I knit for them in there as well.

It's funny about "the paperwork" and the certificate that you keep in the box. I find myself obsessing about the weirdest questions along these lines. If they are only alive for a minute or even a few seconds after they are born, were they actually alive? Are they 'persons'? Will they have birth certificates? Can they have a death certificate (as we were told they would) if they never lived? It's weird what the mind dwells on.

It is lucky that my husband is open about his grief, in that we can talk freely to each other and that helps. It's horrible that you had to carry the burden alone! I feel the same way you do about talking to strangers about it - though look at me here on the INTERNET talking about it! Anonymity. A wonderful thing I suppose. I think we would like to see a grief counselor, but not in a group. I don't think we would be comfortable in a group.

I am going to force myself to hold the babies because I have heard that is the 'healthy' thing to do, but I think it's going to be horribly, horribly hard.

From what you say, it sounds like a person never really gets over this. I hope it will make me a better mother some day too, as you say. I already feel each baby I see on the street is so much more precious and less to be taken for granted then before.

Today when we were walking we had the idea to start a craft project together soon after they are born. Something that takes concentration and will require focus, that we can do together as a ritual each evening. This may sound weird, but we have decided to get a model ship kit and to paint and build it together. We will make a point of putting the radio on each evening and sitting down for an hour to work on the ship together. It's something my DH used to like to do as a boy, and we thought we would give the ship (and any further ships) to a children's christmas charity so that somebody's little boy can be excited by it on christmas morning. Actively doing something together will hopefully keep us focused in those first weeks as we try to deal with the grief.

Does James know that he had a sister? I know he is still very young. It's something I wonder about. When and what would we tell any future children (if I can carry them)?

Thank you again for helping me. I appreciate it profoundly.

 

[Eva17]

IG,

my prayers and hugs are with you and you DH during this very difficult time.

having been there with my sister last year when she lost her little girl at 22 weeks, i just want to add, that the time we spend with her little angel, was very beautiful. i brought my camera, we spent lots of time examining all the little fingers, toes, ears, laughing and crying about who's big toe she had.

beforehand, my sis was apprehensive about how she was going to feel and deal with the situation. i told her, this is your beautiful baby that you have been loving inside you from the second you knew she was there. it won't be scary like you imagine it to be. fear of what she would see and picture in her minds eye forever, was causing some panic.

the hospital staff is terrific during such situations, and allow anyone to share the experience with you. (parents, etc..) my sister allowed my DH and myself to share this sad moment with her and her husband. it has helped my sister, along with her grief counseling, to be able to talk freely about remember this or remember that.... i am 11 years older than my sister and a mother of four, with one lost pregnancy. it was really important to me that i try to help my sister not be afraid and make this experience as beautiful and memorable as possible.

to this day she is thankful that I was able to have the guts to say let's undress her, lets remember every little detail, let me take your picture this way and that way, etc...
her DH was very thankful at the time too. she too has her box with trinkets and photos.

she went for grief counseling, and it helped her ALOT!

as a side note and a happy note,
today, i was at the hospital early this morning to be there as my sister had her cerclage removed. she is 37 weeks pregnant with another little girl. i will get to be there for this delivery too. i can't wait! now we wait.

i am humbled and quite impressed with your outlook and attitude while you and your DH try to make it through this extremely sad time. the names are beautiful! and so are you! Bless You! and great big bear hugs!

 

[Eva17]

maisie you are an impressive woman yourself!!!

i am sorry for your loss!

big bear hugs to you for all you have overcome (if i was savvy enough, i am sure there is an emoticon showing a big hug) imagine i sent one over the pond to you...

 

[GoingCrazy29]

Indy... it makes me sick to think about what you are going through, but you are an inspiration to me in the way you are handeling it.

I wanted to pass along a website that if you weren''t already aware of, might help. It is a non-profit organization called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, I have a friend who does volunteer photography for them. Not only is this something that you mgiht want to look into once your cubs come, but it has a forum for mothers that are going through or have gone through exactly what you are dealing with now. I think it might prove to be a comfort for you during this difficult time. It is a wonderful organization that I hope I will never have to use.

You are in my thoughts and prayers daily.

Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep

 

[Maisie]

I think here in the UK that a baby is classed as a still birth if its born after 24 weeks of the pregnancy. Before that is classed as a miscarriage. I would think that your babies would have a death certificate if they are alive when born. Gosh, its so hard to write this. I don't want to make you sadder than you are.

I looked at a few of the websites dedicated to babies who had been stillborn. I have to say that they really didn't help me at all. I got really freaked out when I saw the photographs of the babies. It just didn't seem right (to me) to be looking. I do respect the feelings of the parents and they posted the pictures to make them feel better, but for me it seemed slightly wrong. Maybe I am the only one who feels that way. Nothing could have prepared me for the way Madison would look. Your babies won't look like she did though. Don't worry.

I love your idea to make the ship. Its such a great way to keep your mind occupied. And the idea that some little boy will benefit from your hard work is beautiful.

James doesn't understand that he had a sister. It he gets in front of a mirror he will sit and babble to it for ages. I find that so hard...as if he thinks the child in the mirror is her. He comes to the grave with us but he just runs around. That child has no respect! The other children find it hard going to lay flowers for Madison. We all have a little cry. You are right, it never really goes away....but then again I would never want to forget her.

I did cry a lot in the early days. It sometimes felt so overwhelming that I might never function normally again. It does ease over time... but do expect it to hit you at times you wouldn't expect. You might be doing something totally unrelated to babies and break into tears. It won't happen forever but just go with it when it does. Fighting it off just prolongs the hurting.

 

[msb700]

Oh Indy..I have been busy the past few days and only saw this today. I just wanted to jump in this thread (sorry !) as im afraid my wishes will get lost in the other thread.

You and your husband r in my thoughts and prayers..you are such an amazingly strong woman!..the names you have chosen are beautiful..


Maisie: That is such a sweet box.. ur strength is amazing and to read you write that story is very touching..thank u so much for sharing..

 

[bee*]

Indy and Maisie, you''re both such strong women. Sending hugs.

 

[Independent Gal]

Date: 10/13/2008 8:24:51 PM
Author: Eva17
IG,


my prayers and hugs are with you and you DH during this very difficult time.


having been there with my sister last year when she lost her little girl at 22 weeks, i just want to add, that the time we spend with her little angel, was very beautiful. i brought my camera, we spent lots of time examining all the little fingers, toes, ears, laughing and crying about who''s big toe she had.


beforehand, my sis was apprehensive about how she was going to feel and deal with the situation. i told her, this is your beautiful baby that you have been loving inside you from the second you knew she was there. it won''t be scary like you imagine it to be. fear of what she would see and picture in her minds eye forever, was causing some panic.


the hospital staff is terrific during such situations, and allow anyone to share the experience with you. (parents, etc..) my sister allowed my DH and myself to share this sad moment with her and her husband. it has helped my sister, along with her grief counseling, to be able to talk freely about remember this or remember that.... i am 11 years older than my sister and a mother of four, with one lost pregnancy. it was really important to me that i try to help my sister not be afraid and make this experience as beautiful and memorable as possible.


to this day she is thankful that I was able to have the guts to say let''s undress her, lets remember every little detail, let me take your picture this way and that way, etc...

her DH was very thankful at the time too. she too has her box with trinkets and photos.


she went for grief counseling, and it helped her ALOT!


as a side note and a happy note,

today, i was at the hospital early this morning to be there as my sister had her cerclage removed. she is 37 weeks pregnant with another little girl. i will get to be there for this delivery too. i can''t wait! now we wait.

Eva, I am so touched by this. You can''t imagine how much this story helped.
Thanks for sharing it with me. Warmest congratulations to your sister. I can imagine (and hope one day to be able to experience) the intense relief and joy she is feeling right now. Long life and health to her little one.

 

[Independent Gal]

Maisie, from what the doctors told me, in the state where I am living, anything up to 20 weeks is considered a miscarriage and thereafter a preterm birth or a stillbirth, depending on how the baby arrives. I think the UK system makes more sense because it is in line with the viability limit.

I'm 21 weeks today.

I also don't like the idea of going on a forum. I'm not a 'forum person', and the whole PS thing kind of happened by chance. I think that my outlook might not be shared by others and I wonder if I might inadvertently hurt someone's feelings. I think that's also partly why my husband and I think a group would not be for us.

My religious leader and his wife have offered us solace at any hour and referred us to a friend of theirs who has been through this, and written a scholarly book on the social history of the subject. She is apparently wise and gentle, and we were told to call her night or day. We will also go see a grief counselor a few times (or as much as we need).

I was thinking last night that life is full of trouble. That everyone has their turn (or 2 or 6 or 10 turns) when it comes to trouble. That right now it is my turn. And that's just life.

You just put one foot in front of the other and keep going. No choice about it.

Remembering that (that I'm not singled out somehow for special suffering - it's just how life goes and everyone has their burdens) and that what is happening is as natural as can be, makes bearing it easier.

I think we are surrounded by a lot of support and that we are going to manage OK. But, as my dad's friend says, and I keep thinking to myself these days "All that is true. But sh!t is still sh!t."

 

[Maisie]

Indy I am amazed at your attitude towards what is happening. You are so calm. I wish I had been that way. I guess I am the type to fall apart. I wish I was stronger.

One thing I remember is I never blamed God. Or asked him why this was happening to me. I felt I didn''t have the right to do that. I either trust him or I don''t. I do believe everything is pre-destined. I will never change what my life plan is, so I do have to accept it. I prayed a lot in those sad times.

I know she is gone and I accept that. But I hold onto the hope that I will see her again one day.

 

[Independent Gal]

Maisie, honey, what you went through was so much more horrible than what I have to bear right now. I don''t know how I would stand up under those circumstances, carrying to full term. I really don''t. It''s one of the worst things I can imagine. You DID get through it, and you DID save your son. You were amazing, especially given the lack of support you had. I wish I could send of mine back in time and over to you. My admiration for you is enormous. I truly mean that.

And I feel sure you will meet your little girl one day.

 

[Linda W]

This thread just tears my heart in half!!! Indy and Maisie I am send you both a big hug.

 

[Eva17]

ahhh,

linda, that''s the big hug emoticon i knew i would never find.

can we share the hug?


prayers continuing for you..

 

[Harriet]

IG, Maisie,
Here''s to your strength!