Louis CK has copied Kenny. He states, "Trump is Hitler".

[ame]

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/louis-c-k-rips-donald-trump-in-epic-email-the-guy-is-hitler-20160305#ixzz423r1tPiP

ANOTHER essay I want to take to the hot sheet hotel for an ilicit weekend. He hits all the marks without sounding like raving lunatic. To me it's cogent and logical and very, very true.

 

[VRBeauty]

I'm probably not the only one who has been tempted to make the Trump/Hilter comparison because Trump is using (and in the process, fomenting) hate and fear of "the other" and divisiveness to appeal to voters, as Hitler did. The problem with that comparison is that Hitler's rhetoric was a means to an unimaginable end - the Holocaust - which is what most people associate with his name. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a President Trump would try to unleash on us a second Holocaust. But does the comparing Trump to Hitler dilute the image of the Holocaust, particularly for a younger generations who don't have access to real live first-person accounts of that horror? I think it might.

I liken the casual Trump/Hitler comparison to people who will say they felt "violated" over intrusions into their privacy that couldn't possibly compare to actually being raped: it's a lazy comparison that does have the potential to desensitize the public to the real horrors of rape, or of the Holocaust.

 

[MollyMalone]

I'm appalled by Trump's stumping for the Presidency (altho' if I had to pick between the two, I'd rather see him in the White House than Cruz), but I really appreciate Gypsy's and Annette's posts here.

I had a great debate with DH the other night and he feels the same way you do re: Trump vs. Cruz (and he's more liberal than I am). At the start of our conversation I was 100% in disagreement, but he made some really strong points that almost made me change my position. Why do you feel like that?

In part, because I don't think Trump actually wants to do the heavy lifting of BEING President, so I'll be surprised if he doesn't resign (if elected) before his term is up, in which case we won't be subjected to 4 full years of him -- although I realize this could be wishful thinking on my part. But I find Trump less scary, more moderate, than Ted Cruze.

More importantly, I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, which Cruze finds abhorrent. His vow to "carpet bomb" Syria and Iraq bespeaks of either a disturbing misunderstanding of Presidential powers (which he is fond of accusing Pres. Obama of misusing), the Middle East in general -- or cynical, purposeful pandering to what he thinks people want to hear. I expect better from a lawyer than, e.g., (a) Kim Davis was jailed in persecution for being a Christian, and "there, but for the grace of God, go you and I", and (b) his pledge to dismantle the IRS, which is ridiculous since that's not an executive decision; plus, he isn't planning to lobby for the abolition of personal income and business taxes at the national level, so there obviously will be a federal tax auditing and enforcement agency.

Radio Iowa has a 15-minute audiotape of most of Senator Cruz's appearance in November at the National Religious Liberties Conference in Des Moines. It starts off with the conference's organizer, Pastor Kevin Swanson, asking "How important is it for the President of the United States to fear God, and what does that mean to you?" Cruze responds, "Any President who doesn't begin every day on his knees is not fit to be the Commander-in-Chief of this country."
http://www.radioiowa.com/2015/11/08/cruz-huckabee-jindal-speak-at-national-religious-liberty-conference-audio/

I'm interested in hearing what you all think of it. I have a couple more thoughts, but this post is already long enough

* Swanson, you may have heard, concluded the weekend conference by endorsing putting homo-sex-u-als to death, after first giving them time to repent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIlPdyrvEfw

 

[AGBF]

Molly, Ted Cruz would scare me more if I thought for one second that he was electable. It is true that in one sense his scariness is more familiar than than that of Trump. It is just the run-of-the-mill, usual far Right view that we have all become accustomed to here in the United States. He takes the The Tea Party and Evangelical Christian stance on everything, whereas Trump says whatever comes into his head in order to win people over...and has been doing it with impunity because no one cares if he's inconsistent. And Trump's message is often full of hatred towards minorities (like Muslims) and women. But as I said, it is Trump's electability that makes him more frightening than Cruz, not simply his stands on the issues. I concur that Cruz is a would-be despot.

AGBF

 

[missy]

I'm probably not the only one who has been tempted to make the Trump/Hilter comparison because Trump is using (and in the process, fomenting) hate and fear of "the other" and divisiveness to appeal to voters, as Hitler did. The problem with that comparison is that Hitler's rhetoric was a means to an unimaginable end - the Holocaust - which is what most people associate with his name. I don't think anyone is suggesting that a President Trump would try to unleash on us a second Holocaust. But does the comparing Trump to Hitler dilute the image of the Holocaust, particularly for a younger generations who don't have access to real live first-person accounts of that horror? I think it might.

I liken the casual Trump/Hitler comparison to people who will say they felt "violated" over intrusions into their privacy that couldn't possibly compare to actually being raped: it's a lazy comparison that does have the potential to desensitize the public to the real horrors of rape, or of the Holocaust.

Excellent points VRBeauty. And your examples show just how precision of language can be/is so important.

 

[missy]

Kenny or Loiuis CK saying, "Trump is Hitler" does not mean we actually and literally think Trump and Hitler are the same person, or entirely identical.
In our language such a lie/exaggeration/inaccuracy is just very common.
It's much like saying, "The line was so long we died waiting."
Correcting me by telling me that we didn't really die is just ...

But branding Trump as another Hitler is not "much like saying,'The line was so long we died waiting'" because you were not trying to convince anyone that you expired or were close to death's door.

The fact that hyperbole is common in comments, discussion, arguments about political matters doesn't make it desirable imo; think precision of thought & language better serves informed, civic decision-making. Plus, hyperbole is easily dismissed as unfounded,if not ridiculous, so doesn't carry the persuasive weight with non-believers or fence-sitters the speaker is hoping for -- unless the speaker is using hyperbole merely to draw attention to themselves and/or lob stupid shots. Trump himself is guilty of that, why reinforce the validity of that MO by emulating it?

I'm appalled by Trump's stumping for the Presidency (altho' if I had to pick between the two, I'd rather see him in the White House than Cruz), but I really appreciate Gypsy's and Annette's posts here.

I should have just dittoed Molly's wise comments. So I will do that now. +1 and Ditto.

 

[E B]

But I find Trump less scary, more moderate, than Ted Cruze.

Great post, MollyMalone. I couldn't agree more- Trump is bad, but Cruz is much worse.

I read an article the other day talking about how Ted Cruz lies just as much as Donald Trump (if not more), but he crafts the lies in a way that leaves just enough wiggle room to spin it or deny it. Insidious is the word that comes to mind. I would hope- truly hope- that even christians see the danger in someone who doesn't even pretend to represent the people, but to represent god and the plan god has (according to Ted Cruz!) for this nation. I think he'd do a lot of irreparable damage to fulfill some religious prophecy without blinking an eye.

AGBF- I think you're right about his electability, but having him as the nominee is still too close for comfort.

 

[ksinger]

Molly, Ted Cruz would scare me more if I thought for one second that he was electable. It is true that in one sense his scariness is more familiar than than that of Trump. It is just the run-of-the-mill, usual far Right view that we have all become accustomed to here in the United States. He takes the The Tea Party and Evangelical Christian stance on everything, whereas Trump says whatever comes into his head in order to win people over...and has been doing it with impunity because no one cares if he's inconsistent. And Trump's message is often full of hatred towards minorities (like Muslims) and women. But as I said, it is Trump's electability that makes him more frightening than Cruz, not simply his stands on the issues. I concur that Cruz is a would-be despot.

AGBF

Despot? Oh Deb, don't indulge in hyperbole. It's so distasteful. We've been assured that things like a person espousing fascist methods or a religiouly inspired would-be despot wielding government's power can never happen here because there are safeguards.

 

[HollyS]

Kenny or Loiuis CK saying, "Trump is Hitler" does not mean we actually and literally think Trump and Hitler are the same person, or entirely identical.

In our language such a lie/exaggeration/inaccuracy is just very common.
It's much like saying, "The line was so long we died waiting."

Correcting me by telling me that we didn't really die is just ...

It's just another form of "political correctness", this taking things literally. Reasoned disagreement is so hard, y'all.

As for Trump, I'd like to think he's too much of a parody/character/legend in his own mind to have any real impact in any tangible way. I'd LIKE to think it, but I don't think I dare. He's an assclown to be sure, but he has said some very frightening things. He may not be Hitler, but he has quoted Mussolini. Who, in their right mind, quotes Mussolini?? Trump is a creepy scary dude.

 

[HollyS]

Molly, Ted Cruz would scare me more if I thought for one second that he was electable. It is true that in one sense his scariness is more familiar than than that of Trump. It is just the run-of-the-mill, usual far Right view that we have all become accustomed to here in the United States. He takes the The Tea Party and Evangelical Christian stance on everything, whereas Trump says whatever comes into his head in order to win people over...and has been doing it with impunity because no one cares if he's inconsistent. And Trump's message is often full of hatred towards minorities (like Muslims) and women. But as I said, it is Trump's electability that makes him more frightening than Cruz, not simply his stands on the issues. I concur that Cruz is a would-be despot.

AGBF

Despot? Oh Deb, don't indulge in hyperbole. It's so distasteful. We've been assured that things like a person espousing fascist methods or a religiouly inspired would-be despot wielding government's power can never happen here because there are safeguards.

 

[AGBF]

My husband's family spoke a variety of languages. His parents, who were born in Turkey because it had once been The Ottoman Empire and a place that tolerated the Jews expelled from Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella during the Spanish Inquisition but then became nationalistic after World War I, spoke Ladino (ancient Spanish) to each other. They spoke Italian (the language of their new country) to their children. They spoke the Genoese dialect to workers down in their little store. And they spoke French when they tried to flee Europe and wound up in Nazi-occupied northern France for the duration of World War II.

One of the expressions my father-in-law, Roberto, used when something was self-explanatory was, "Dico niente". I suspect it was Ladino, but given the mélange of languages the man spoke, I cannot be sure. I do know that it meant, "I say nothing."

My husband always says it when something is self-explanatory. So...dico niente...https://www.rt.com/usa/334853-trump-pledge-hitler-salute/