Leon and AVCs

[Chris-at-ERD]

OK just to play devil's advocate, my appraiser was discussing how "cast" can also be that the jeweler makes a custom wax by hand, and then creates a mold from this wax, which is then filled with molten metal. So a cast ring wouldn't necessarily be a stock ring - it can still be custom (as with the CAD/casts custom work we see from other vendors here), but there would be a wax and a mold involved.

So I'm curious about whether any part of Leon's process involves a custom wax mold, or whether it is raw pieces of metal built from the ground up and soldered together like Angietaren's.

Hi Lovestreet,

I would like to add a few realities to the art of ring making,so to speak, from my expeirence @ Dvatche and believe will hold true.

There are 4 ways to fabricate jewelry:

1- CAD technology
2- Hand Wax models
3-Silver hand fabricated models
4- Fabricating directly from choice of metal- ex. Platinum ( Hardest process PERIOD. )

Obviously the first 3 require Molds and CAST etc. but does not mean for example....a simple 4 prong solitaire shank ( cast ) could be hand made or done by hand such as a basket and a plate that is hand cut for the base and pulled wire prongs that are tacked on by hand for perfect fit...

Which ever or how ever Leon creates his amazing and beautiful designs can be explained only by him and I for one will always praise his work, so with that said Leon may be alot of different things to alot of differnt people but he is an artist and perfectionist no doubt...

Lots of PS vendors have the ability for Custom but this area falls under choice and personality of the buyer.

Hope this helps clarify some questions.

+1 to Chris' excellent and informative post.
I also have a lot of respect for Leon- say what you will about his manner, but he has a great eye, and is responsible for very beautiful work.

One other point- there is another method of fabrication Chris forgot to mention- Die Struck.
This is a common method of fabricating shanks and other parts.
It's prohibitive as the cost of the dies used is very high- but the resultant parts are extremely high quality- for example porosity ( microscopic or larger bubbles in metal when it is melted and poured) is virtually non existent in die struck parts

That's because I am not a fan of die struck but concur.
Thanks ROCK.

 

[Chris-at-ERD]

Just to expand on die struck..... my posts are usually short, excuse me.
die struck is usually for mass production example 4 prong or 6 prong Heads..which LM would not waste his time with.
Hope this helps

 

[Rockdiamond]

I get your point Chris- there are very ugly die struck heads and other parts that I too, would associate with junky commercial jewelry.
When I mentioned high quality die struck stuff I was talking about certain other parts- for example some shanks can be die struck, combined with cast or hand made tops for very high quality rings
There are also some very high quality signet rings that are die struck.


We've also not mentioned rings made from extruded pipe- such as channel set anniversary bands.

 

[CherryBlossom]

I get your point Chris- there are very ugly die struck heads and other parts that I too, would associate with junky commercial jewelry.
When I mentioned high quality die struck stuff I was talking about certain other parts- for example some shanks can be die struck, combined with cast or hand made tops for very high quality rings
There are also some very high quality signet rings that are die struck.


We've also not mentioned rings made from extruded pipe- such as channel set anniversary bands.

Interesting, do you have pictures that maybe we can compare? especially the ones that are mixed. I am very interested in this

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I get your point Chris- there are very ugly die struck heads and other parts that I too, would associate with junky commercial jewelry.
When I mentioned high quality die struck stuff I was talking about certain other parts- for example some shanks can be die struck, combined with cast or hand made tops for very high quality rings
There are also some very high quality signet rings that are die struck.


We've also not mentioned rings made from extruded pipe- such as channel set anniversary bands.

I will agree because I believe many Van Craeynest rings are die struck and then carved. They are VERY high quality rings and works of art! Not a good idea to generalize because there are very high quality die struck pieces.

I also had a die struck temp setting by Jabel once, and it was of far better quality than the inexpensive Stuller cast tiffany style settings.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Here's a photo of a die struck onyx ring.
The advantages are that it's extremely clean. the lines are perfect. Curves incredibly well finished. Plus, there's no chance of porosity.
The disadvantage is that you can't change the die to make small changes ( like the old saying-"once the die is cast....")

The ring I posted was made by a company called Church.
Jabel is also also a great example of another very high quality company manufacturing die struck products- as Diamondseeker mentioned.

I can get few die struck parts Monday and post photos. There are die struck parts that are kind of cheap looking- but I agree- nit's not good to generalize.

 

[CherryBlossom]

Here's a photo of a die struck onyx ring.
The advantages are that it's extremely clean. the lines are perfect. Curves incredibly well finished. Plus, there's no chance of porosity.
The disadvantage is that you can't change the die to make small changes ( like the old saying-"once the die is cast....")

The ring I posted was made by a company called Church.
Jabel is also also a great example of another very high quality company manufacturing die struck products- as Diamondseeker mentioned.

I can get few die struck parts Monday and post photos. There are die struck parts that are kind of cheap looking- but I agree- nit's not good to generalize.

Oh great info. Do you think that most of these pieces (or other ones by MC2) are die struck?? [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whats-your-fave-mc2-other-organic-nature-inspired-settings.156165/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whats-your-fave-mc2-other-organic-nature-inspired-settings.156165/[/URL]

 

[Imdanny]

CherryBlossom,

I am in Tucson for the gem and mineral shows. I lent my tsavorite ring to my dealer to display in his booth. It has been there for the last two days. I just checked with him. According to the retired jeweller, the shank is cast. Another expert (I don't know who, as I wasn't there) looked at it today. He too said that the shank was cast. In addition, there are casting holes at the base of one of the prongs.

Harriet, this surprises me. I don't know if it should but it does.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Maybe Frankie can ask Steven Hirsch if any part of the rings are cast and exactly what parts are handmade.

 

[justginger]

I accidentally bent my LM pave ER last year, after celebrating the Saints' victory by pounding on the table. Seriously, don't make me feel more stupid than I already did (I have managed to forgive myself for it in the last calendar year). Anyway, I took my ring to a top jeweler here, who kept it to be checked over and repaired. I expressed my desire for them not to do ANYTHING until I okayed it (wanted to speak to the benchman myself about it) and the managing saleswoman kinda chuckled and reassured me that the ring was definitely "computer made". I responded that I was under the impression it was handmade. She said that level of detail would be impossible for a person to do - kinda gave me the "there, there, you silly little girl" attitude.

Next day, I get a call. Please come pick up the ring. So I return, and to my amazement she slinks out with her proverbial tail between her legs, ring in hand. All of the melee had been checked for security (the ring was only very, very slightly out of round), cleaned, and I could take it home. It was NOT repaired because their chief platinumsmith was positive the ring was hand made and he was not confident enough of his abilities to work at that level of quality. In fact, he said it was the highest quality handcrafted work he had ever seen.

So, I feel confident that Leon's bench made my ring by hand. Maybe others have not been, but it seems that at least some of our's are.

 

[Harriet]

CherryBlossom,

I am in Tucson for the gem and mineral shows. I lent my tsavorite ring to my dealer to display in his booth. It has been there for the last two days. I just checked with him. According to the retired jeweller, the shank is cast. Another expert (I don't know who, as I wasn't there) looked at it today. He too said that the shank was cast. In addition, there are casting holes at the base of one of the prongs.

Harriet, this surprises me. I don't know if it should but it does.

I'm still hoping they're wrong. Another jeweller did say that casting doesn't matter, as long as it's well-finished by hand.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Here's a photo of a die struck onyx ring.
The advantages are that it's extremely clean. the lines are perfect. Curves incredibly well finished. Plus, there's no chance of porosity.
The disadvantage is that you can't change the die to make small changes ( like the old saying-"once the die is cast....")

The ring I posted was made by a company called Church.
Jabel is also also a great example of another very high quality company manufacturing die struck products- as Diamondseeker mentioned.

I can get few die struck parts Monday and post photos. There are die struck parts that are kind of cheap looking- but I agree- nit's not good to generalize.

Oh great info. Do you think that most of these pieces (or other ones by MC2) are die struck?? [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whats-your-fave-mc2-other-organic-nature-inspired-settings.156165/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whats-your-fave-mc2-other-organic-nature-inspired-settings.156165/[/URL]

I do believe that the McTeigue line features die struck pieces- the first one on that thread certainly looked Die Struck to me

 

[CherryBlossom]

CherryBlossom,

I am in Tucson for the gem and mineral shows. I lent my tsavorite ring to my dealer to display in his booth. It has been there for the last two days. I just checked with him. According to the retired jeweller, the shank is cast. Another expert (I don't know who, as I wasn't there) looked at it today. He too said that the shank was cast. In addition, there are casting holes at the base of one of the prongs.

Harriet, this surprises me. I don't know if it should but it does.

I'm still hoping they're wrong. Another jeweller did say that casting doesn't matter, as long as it's well-finished by hand.

I hope that you are too, but yeah keep us updated

on another note Harriet (I just asked Lorelei this too) but later on this week I am going to post about my sapphire/diamond choices and i need your eye so pretty please look out for the thread and help! I gotta finalize this by Sunday and I need your expert eye. thanks thanks!

 

[Harriet]

Will do. I don't know much about diamonds, though.

Btw, I just posted on your sapphire thread.

 

[cookies]

Hi Love Street

I just came across this thread and was wondering, did you ask Leon whether yours was handmade or not?

I just signed a work order with him for a colored-stone pendant. (You suggested that I call him, instead of emailing him, remember?) I always assumed his work is handmade, in the sense that it is 100% hand-forged, hand-engraved, etc. Not that I doubt his workmanship or artistic ability. I am just curious what you have found out.

 

[Hospatogi]

Hi Love Street

I just came across this thread and was wondering, did you ask Leon whether yours was handmade or not?

I just signed a work order with him for a colored-stone pendant. (You suggested that I call him, instead of emailing him, remember?) I always assumed his work is handmade, in the sense that it is 100% hand-forged, hand-engraved, etc. Not that I doubt his workmanship or artistic ability. I am just curious what you have found out.

No most of his pieces are not specifically 100% hand forged yet his work is still beautiful ! However if having a 100% hand forged piece is important to you than you would be better off going with Victor Canera .