Just starting to shop

[v1023]

Hello! I am new to the forum- this is my first post.. but I have been reading many of the posts and have learned quite a bit about diamonds. I am just starting to shop for an engagement ring for my girlfriend and I need all the help I can get.

My budget is no more than $14,000. I want to get her at least a 1.7 carat round ring. I have read about the importance about cut and definitely want an ideal cut. With my budget, I am looking at either G & H(don''t want to go lower), and no lower than VVS2. So far, I have gone to my local Robins Brothers and looked at a few rings. I have a few questions...

1) The problem is that I am color blind. Is there a big difference between a G and H diamond of the same clarity and cut? I cannot tell at all! My girlfriend, however, has very good eyes!

2) Also, if two diamonds have the same color, cut, size, and clarity.. for example, if they are both vvs2, does that mean they are equal? In regards to clarity, if two diamonds are both vvs2.. are the inclusions equal? Or are there inclusions on certain parts of the diamonds that are more visible and I should avoid?

3) I have been reading about H&A diamonds. How do I know if it''s an H&A? Is it on the cert? or are all Ideal cut dimaonds H&A?

4) If I buy from an online jeweler, should I request a copy of the certificate before buying?

5) Are there any online jewelers that will send the diamond to a local jewler near me and then I can go look at the ring first before buying?

Any suggestions and comments are greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[MaybeDayze]

5) Are there any online jewelers that will send the diamond to a local jewler near me and then I can go look at the ring first before buying?

Check out the Knowledge section of PS, it has a section on buying procedures, purchase contingent upon sending it to an appraiser, etc, it also has a section on Hearts and Arrows.

With that kind of budget, I'm sure you'll get something amazing.
Goodluck.

Opps Double Post, Don't know why that happened

 

[DiamondExpert]

1. It''s difficult for most folks to tell a 1 color difference in well cut rounds face up...however, you may want to test this out with your GF.

2. There is no way you are going to see incusions in a VVS2 stone of 1.7ct. In fact, save $ by safely going to VS1. VVS2 may be a bit of overkill on clarity unless it is more a psychological thing.

3. Not all ideals are H&A, and not all H&A''s are ideal cut. Not all H&A''s are created equal, and so you need to read up on the difinitions...some vendors are extremely compulsive in their definition, and others not, but the term is "abused" both by retailers and in the trade. It may or may not (most likely) be indicated on the cert, and for GIA or AGS certs will only be indicated if so laser inscribed on the girdle...it STILL does not necessarily make it a true H&A in any event!

4. You should expect far more than just a copy of the cert from any on line dealer...expect a complete report with pics, proportions, etc.

5. Having a stone sent to a local jeweler is probably not the best solution because of the inherent conflict of interest involved. It''s better to have it sent to an independent appraiser for an objective examination.

Good luck!

 

[codex57]

1) There's not that much difference. Btw just one color grade difference, I doubt even your eagle eyed g/f can tell teh difference. Depending on the setting, just cuz you can't see the color face up is rationalizing too much. If it's mounted high enough, she'll be able to see the stone through the side and check out the color. if she had another stone, she may be able to see the difference in teh right lighting. However, how many diamonds does she have? She'd have to have something to compare it to to even notice if it's more yellow than something else.

2) No, inclusions are not all equal. However, at the VVS2 range, those things are so dang small, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd still try and avoid one with something smack in the middle of the table, but even if it's there, it's so small that you can't see it w/out a microscope so unless your g/f carries one around with her, I wouldn't worry about it.

3) H&A diamonds are labeled as such. Should say on the report. However, if you search, you can find ideal diamonds not branded H&A that are cut just as well. Those are cheaper cuz they don't have the brand. However, finding a branded one is guarantee of pretty much the best cut possible. Beware tho. Some people call their stones H&A cuz they display a heart and arrow pattern, but the shapes may not be perfect like a true branded H&A diamond.

4) Online jewelers should have the cert online. Or at least the most important specs. See 5 for more details.

5) Wouldn't have to. Reputable online jewelers will send you the diamond to inspect. If it doesn't meet your requirements, you can send them back. Always check the return policy. They also can have it sent to the appraiser of your choice so you can be sure it's what they say it is.

 

[v1023]

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. Another question- How important is a GIA certificate? Some of the diamonds I have found during my search have EGL certificates. Are these lesser quality diamonds?

Also, on may of the posts I have read, it mentions getting a Saifin report. What exactly is this?

Thanks in advance for everyone''s help!

 

[pqcollectibles]

EGL used to have a reputation for grading loosely and/or inconsistently. EGL USA has made great strides in being stricter with their grading in the last couple of years. Pricing is impacted by both color and clarity. If the color grade and/or clarity grade is off by one factor, that can mean hundreds, and in some cases thousands of dollars price difference on a diamond purchase. Because of the reputation, EGL Certed diamonds tend to trade at a bit of a discount when compared to similar diamonds with comparable stats that were graded by AGS and/or GIA. Consumers who purchase accurately graded EGL diamonds tend to pick up their diamonds at a bit of a bargain.

Sarin is a testing device that measures the diamond''s physical parameters. Diameter/length/width, table size, depth, girdle, crown height and angle, and pavillion depth and angle. Having all the physical measurements makes it much easier to weed out potential poor performers in a sight unseen situation like internet shopping, allowing you to focus your search on candidates with the best potential.

 

[valeria101]

Couldn''t add much...

however, VVS sounds like serious overkill. Ok, perhaps it takes a different kind of taste to acklaim D/I1s... but there really would be no visible difference between VVS and VS2. Is there any other reason why clarity matters ?

You are definitely "color blind" - it takes training and special grading conditions to tell neighbouring color grades apart. Even labs would not give a straight grade on set diamonds but a split one (so, if regraded in setting, a G color diamond would turn out G-H or F-G on the new report). Same for clarity.

If looks is important, than it may make sense to add options by looking at a wider set of specs.

GIA came up with their own visual judgement of the grades with the ocasion of the recent study on diamond cut. It seems odd that those results seem to agree that color and clarity grades that make serious price differences amount to just a neglijable visual difference. (see table here).

For what my 0.2 worth hindsight tells: Between H/VVS1 and F/VS2 it wouldn''t be clarity that makes any visual difference. Color remains debatable - a jewelry snob might pick up "something".

 

[Regular Guy]

My understanding agrees with Ana on clarity...which is good, because VVS anything is very hard to find...I found none today in the 1.5 - 2 class on the search by cut database here.

With that said, check this one out, discounted to $14,036 for PS readers.

Generally, these suggestions may help, too, and touch your item #5, as well.

Best wishes,

 

[pch8899]

Thank you all again for your input!

Another question.. when it comes to inclusions on a diamond, is there a more favorable place to have them as opposed to others? For example.. on the side vs. directly on the table? Also.. do the types of inclusions make a difference.. ex: clouds vs. feathers?

I ran the specs of the diamonds I''d be interested in and came across a couple I''d be interested in. Any thoughts?

1) W/ EGL Cert
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.80
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Crown Height: 15%
Pavillion: 44%
Depth %: 60.9
Table %: 56
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Girdle: M-
Culet: N
Fluorescence: N
Measurements: 7.83-7.87-4.78

2) W/ EGL Cert
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.71
Color: H
Clarity: VS2
Crown: 14.8%
Pavillion: 43.3%
Depth %: 62.8
Table %: 58
Symmetry: Good
Polish: Good
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Culet: N
Fluorescence: N
Measurements: 7.59x 7.55x4.75

THANKS AGAIN!!

 

[phoenixgirl]

OK, I am guessing that both members of the couple have written here, thus explaining the two screen names and different gender pronouns?

Anyway, you've gone from looking for a 1.7+ H VVS2 of maybe H&A quality, to looking at 1.7 H VS2 EGL certed non-ideal stones. The prices should now be running you in the 10k area, give or a take a grand.

I'm not too impressed with the two stones you mentioned. They run a 4.5 and 2.9 on the HCA, and it tends to be more forgiving with percentages instead of angles.

Have you considered this stone? Remember, with EGL you should consider the fact that it might have been graded lower by the GIA and AGS, so an H VS2 might (or might not) be an I SI1.

There's also this stone. Its sarin report indicates that it has an excellent cut. I know it's I SI1, but it's a GIA cert. Also, ask about a Price Scope discount. They usually knock 5% off the price.