Is this diamond considered an IDEAL cut?

[Carolynw]

Thanks Patty, I will do that search, that will help.
My husband is so happy that I am doing this research now
and getting help from this website. In about a 1/2 hour
I have to call that Jewelry store and tell them I
want an AGS ideal cut stone, and that is why im canceling.
Of course I'll be alittle nervous.

Anyway, I am going to call both places today and see
when I can meet with them.

One more thing I was doing wrong is I was first looking for a place
that sold good settings, and then at that place i was trying to buy the stone. I am not realizing to separate the stone purchase, do that first
and then try to find a setting later. The two do not have to go together, that was foolish of me. Partly because these jewelry stores carry settings, but the don't carry good stones.

 

[Carolynw]

Well I just called the Jewelry store, and they were not happy about me canceling, I told him I looked at 1 stone from them and would rather make sure Im getting an AGS ideal cut stone. I said all his stones are ideal cut, and he has a sarin report on that diamond he sold me saturday. He said the crown is 34.4, pavilion 41.4 and then the rest is listed below. I said I still wanted to have a larger selection to choose and to not put the 8000.00 in the bank, because im canceling. I said he can call me to show me more, he said he doesn't get bad cut diamonds in to compare them to good cuts, but he does have more stones, but was confused why the salesperson didn't show me more than 2 stones when i was spending 16,000.00. I have a bad feeling about it now, and don't want to really go back to them. What do you think? He said he wouldn't put the 8000.00 check and and would cancel the order for the setting too since I don't have a stone now.
At first he said, you still want the setting right, I said, no because I now don't have a stone for it.
They have 30 day return refund policy, i hope they don't try to stick me with the purchase, i never even walked out with the stone, or setting.


7.37 - 7.44 x 4.67 mm
Weight 1.57 carat
Proportions
Depth 63.1%
Table 56%
Girdle MEDIUM
Cutlet NONE
Finish Polish VERY GOOD Symmetry VERY GOOD Clarity Grade VS2
Color GRADE D Flourescence NONE

 

[Carolynw]

The salesperson called and said this diamond
that he tried to sell me is an ideal cut.
He said he could show me 2-3 more stones
for me to compare that he considers ideal.
Do you think it would be better to go to GOOD OLD GOLD
or the other places Patty recommended, then
going back here and allowing him to show me more stones?
I told him i wanted a stone similar to the proportions that
Patty recommended, he said that the table is off on those
measurements, and didn't think those were ideal measurements.
I said i would call him back to tell him when i would come
in, he wants to know so he can order the stones in for
me to view.

 

[Mara]

Honestly Carolyn, online or offline, I don't like going somewhere where they don't feel they have to educate me...and that I will just take their word on something. As someone else noted, Ideal is a broad term....so you doing the research yourself will help you determine if someone is pulling your leg or not.




Personally I would go to GOG or SC or have that WF stone called into a local appraiser. I would rather work with a company that carries stones in-house and has a better selection. My jeweler called in 2 stones for us to look at when we were buying and I only had those 2 stones to select from. It's a pain to keep having to go back to see more stones. GOG and SC are both going to have many stones for you to view, maybe not all in your range or what you want but at least you are comparing apples to apples.




As for the table being off, this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. I would DEFINITELY not go back there if he doesn't know an ideal table measurement! Why have some person telling you that stone is ideal when it's definitely NOT and they just really want your $16k! This is exactly why people who never find Pscope end up with some chunky rock and $$ out the door when you could have gotten a better deal on a better stone.

 

[Nicrez]

Carolyn, I agree with Mara. Realize that this sales person is desperately clining on to his sale that seems to be falling apart.

Remember there is NO reason for you to feel bad! It's YOUR money, and a heck of a lot of money at that! Stop being a "nice person" and start thinking like a business person.

"Nice people" feel guilty about all the work and effort someone put into a sale and not rewarding them with the sale. Case in point my fiance almost bought a car from a dealership he wasn't totally happy about, just because the sales guy worked with us for several hours. IT'S THEIR JOB! They get paid on comission, but also, if they don't have what you want, WHY OH WHY will you spend $16K there?!

I noticed that when a sales person is cornered into a sale that is falling apart, they like to either not answer your questions and just repeat their sales pitch, assuming you will stop asking questions, or they just assume you will forget your doubts and believe them if they repeat it enough.

Ask a question that you can understand the answer to (do your homework), THEN if they don't answer it, call them on it. For example, if he says "ideal" ask him what makes the stone ideal, and who's written word does he have to back that up? The GIA? The stores?

Tell him this:

"Look, I WILL NOT buy a stone without getting all the details of the stone, until I AM SATISFIED. I am the customer. I am paying $16,000 for a unique luxury item, I want it to be exactly what I want, or I will not buy it. Thank you very much for your help, but if you can not provide me with the information I request, or you don't have a stone I am crazy about, according to MY definition of Ideal, then I can not give you a sale, I am sorry. It will be MY diamond, and I am the Only one who has to consider it Ideal, no one else, and this is what I consider Ideal."

Done. Be strong and remember that the store will always be there, and NEVER rush into a purchase like this. Weddings and such are the best way for these sales people to make money, consider all the emotions and how excited people are. You need to relax, take charge and do your homework!!!

 

[Carolynw]

Thank you so much, your both are totally right.
I always feel guilty, Im not going to let them take advantage of that.
The owner had the nerve to say, we spent a lot of time with you on Saturday
didn't we. I swear they spent a total of 2 hours, that's it.
But, even during the two hours, he never showed me why that was an ideal cut diamond stone. On the phone just now, I felt like i had to convince him that I wanted to look at more stones, he kept telling me that one i picked is the best i will find. How could that be, there must be better, or others. I think 16,000.00 is worth more than 2 hours. And your right, they dont' have the selection, and I don't want them to bring them in and make me feel guilty for not buying one after they bring them in. He said I have to call him today to tell him when I will be back, Im just going to tell him I'm really just not ready to make this purchase. Im going to go to the places that Mara and the others recommend. Thanks again, it really helps to have the internet to help during this process.

 

[Nicrez]

Carolyn, if there is one thing I HATE is people who take advantage of "nice people".... Sorry I am so outspoken on this, but truly, it really lights my fire!

Tell him this (turn the guilt tables on HIM!):

"I appreciate your time on Saturday. I also understand that you are in the business of showing customers your products, and to do so requires your time, AS WELL AS MINE. When you took up two hours of MY time, explaining to me without backing it up, that the stone was ideal, you wasted MY time." (I don't think you need to say that, but understand that YOUR time is worth money too!!!)

Also, why do you think they are in a store all day long. To do exactly what it is they where doing. Showing, and trying to sell. How much time they spend is their discretion, and if they WASTE that time trying to trick you into a sale, it's part of their job, and you owe them absolutely nothing. All sales are contingent on having the right merchandise that YOU are interested in. Done deal.

I'm in the market for cars, so I am actually going through the same thing, except I have gotten to the point where I call first and ask, "Hi, do you have this exact specified vehicle?" If they say yes, and DON'T (which three so far have), they waste MY time, and I feel angry, instead of guilty.

Now I totally take charge of the situation and say, "Look, if you have this car I will make the trip. Give me a stock #, and we will discuss price when I get there. I don't want to waste your time or mine. If you don't have the vehicle, I will not drive 1-2 hours to see your "other" cars, THIS is the only one I am interested in. If you call me in on a bait-and-switch (telling you they have something, then telling you it's sold, how about this other one) I promise you I will speak to your manager."

Sometimes you have to be tough Carolyn, but only when you encounter people who try every tactic in the book to get your money, beside just showing you what you want, and making your shopping experience EASIER! It's called customer service, and you should be getting it, and you're NOT!

Be strong, chin up, and get to calling some guys online. All the vendors that people have recommended here are HONESTLY, the only way I would buy my next diamond. I trust them, and I hope your good experience with them will make you trust them as well!

 

[Carolynw]

Your totally helping me. I am about to call them now and
tell them that I am not going to come in and look at the
additional 2 or 3 they plan on bringing in to show me.
I didn't want to go back, but he kept pressuring me for
an answer. Honestly, they have the 8000.00 check,
and the owner assured me he wouldn't put it in, also
i did do a stop payment on it, but i still get scared
and felt like i had to act as if i was still interested. But,
he did say, we have a 30 day return policy, he was trying to get
me to go along with the sale, and then if in 30 days i decided differently i could return. But, i know that returning would be much more difficult than just canceling, plus I really don't ever want to return. So, I sincerely thank you, and im taking off early from work now to make that call to them, plus to call some of these suggested jewelers that you have recommended. Thanks again very much, all your comments have really helped.

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 10/18/2004 7:31:41 AM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

You will find Jonathn from GOG quite an entertainer.
Call first and make sure he is in

----------------

cutnut,

jonathan might be a good entertainer, but i can go to vegas and see any entertainer for a cheaper price. it can easily cost you $10k+ to see one of his shows and its not even front row seats. but seriously, he's one of the good vendor's here on ps.

 

[reena]

man, this anecdote is so disheartening! carolyn, i'm sorry you've had to deal with this, but good for you for sticking to your guns. i'm sure it will all work out for you in the end.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Carolyn
with the pavil at 41.4' that's outside the ags 0 cut ideal range. stick around here the ladies will show you how to spend $16k the right way

 

[Carolynw]

I just looked and you are correct,
it says the Average Pavilion Depth %
for AGS proportions to be considered
ideal must be between 42.2 to 43.8 %.
And according to the measurements of the Pavilion depth
that were given to me over the phone by this jeweler
it was 41.4%, but he insisted it was considered an ideal cut.
That is so frustrating to be lied to. Anyway, if he calls me again
today, since i only left a message on his machine saying i wouldn't be
back and to cancel my order from Saturday, I plan on asking him how
he would consider it ideal if all the books indicate it is not.

 

[solange]

I had a similar experience with a dealer in the Diamond District in NYC. I told him what I wanted and said I wanted to see a selection of stones.The next day he called and said he had the perfect stone for me and it was Ideal cut. He spent a lot of time with me but mainly trying to establish a friendly atmosphere and telling me how trustworthy he is, how long his family has been in the business, names of famous people who had bought from him at enormous prices,etc.

I said I had expected to see more than one stone before making a decision and he replied that if I did not like this stone, I obviously did not know what I was looking for. He also said that I must let him know the very next day or it would be gone because he had a waiting list of people who wanted it but I was the first one he had called. He even tried to persuade me to leave my original engagement ring(which I am keeping) as a deposit and he would clean it and tighten the prongs. I passed on this idea.

Fortunately I had found Pricescope and that day I listed the table and depth and several members advised me that the table was far too large and it was much too shallow. It was far from Ideal cut.

I sent him a fax the next morning saying that I did not want the stone because it was not an Ideal cut. He called and said he had spent so much time with me and the least I could do was give him a chance to find me a stone. He then bombarded me with faxes of GIA reports on other stones and tried to lay a guilt trip on me about all his efforts to please me.

I faxed him back saying that I was not an easy customer to please and that he should not waste any more of his valuable time on me because I was not going to buy from him and that he had wasted my time as well. I also said it was my money not his and I did not need him to tell me how I should spend it.

I wound up buying a gorgous stone from Whiteflash.

 

[Carolynw]

When I talked to the owner today, he asked again about the diamond
because he said others wanted it. I told him again i didn't want
to choose just from looking at one stone. Then i told him i plugged
the measurements he gave me from the Sarin report into the calculations
for an ideal cut, and it came out that it was not an ideal cut.
He then said, those were not correct figures to plug in and he needed
to get additional figures on it, not the 34.4 crown and 41.4 pavilion, he said something like those are percentages. Anyway, i didn't know what he was talking about because I asked yesterday for the Sarin report proportional measurements, and that is what he gave me yesterday. He said he has 3 more to show me that he is getting in and they are all ideal. I think I will move on and try to find another place. It just doesn't feel right with this one.
Thanks for your comments above.

 

[solange]

I think you have to be firm and tell him you are not going to buy from him. As long as you give him any hope he probably will continue to try to make a sale. He seems very aggressive and you seem to be a very kind, considerate person who does not want to hurt his feelings. Since you stopped the check he does not have your money and you owe him nothing for his time. I am sure you are not the first customer he spent time with who did not buy from him.

 

[Mara]

carolyn just stop playing his game! why are you even bothering to talk to him anymore? the guy is obviously a liar, 34.4 and 41.4 are NOT percentages, those are angles, and if he thinks they are % then that stone is even worse...so he's not doing himself any favors by continuing to lie. what an idiot!




you keep saying you are done with him and don't want to return and then your next post is how you spoke with him again and he is still asking about that stone. tell him to buzz off and end it already! don't you have better things to be doing with your time, aka finding a vendor who won't lie to you to get your business..and working with them to get a beautiful stone? tell this guy to take a hike.

 

[Nicrez]

Solange! You GO GIRL! Shopping in the Diamond Districts can be harrowing, and that's is how to handle the situation. Be in charge, talk less than normal, except when putting parameters in for a search.

Honestly, Carolyn, you seem to be an absolutely sweet (and way too nice) person. As absurd as this whole experience has been, you NEED to take charge finally and as Mara correctly said, CUT IT OFF with this vendor.

I would simply say, "This is a very big purchase for us and I personally need to trust the person I work with. I no longer trust you, I do not like being manipulated and confused. I wish you well, but I do not want to work with you and will no longer contact you or return your calls."

I truly suggest you read a book called The 48 Rules of Power by Robert Greene. It's quite machiavellian, but it shows you how weakness can eaily become a downfall. It's not a self-help book, but a study on power, how some people have it, why some people don't and how to see power in all it's forms, using a historical example for each rule.


BE STRONG GIRL!!!!

 

[Carolynw]

I agree with both comments. I am not going to go look at the 2 or 3 he said he is bringing in. I guess i was thinking of doing it so i could get my 8000 check back, he still has it. Even though I canceled the check and purchase, i guess i still feel like i want it in my hands. But, i will just tell him to either tear it up, or mail it to me if he wants.
Thanks again, and no i am not going to go back there.
They blew it by not selling me an ideal cut stone the first time around.