Insomnia rears its ugly head again

[Mreader]

I’ve struggled with it off and on since having baby (he’s 6 years old now). Being up at all hours with kid for almost 2-3 years (he didn’t sleep well until later in his life) messed up my sleep and that combined with PPD just made me a wreck. I got better but would occasionally “relapse” and have issues again. The hard part is that I would worry I couldn’t sleep which would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Anyway I had been doing well but for 3 weeks it’s happening again but in a different way. I can go to sleep but I wake up way too early - around 4-5am and can’t go back to sleep. I end up feeling like crap all day long and then it happens again. I feel very defeated and discouraged. I do meditation apps, no phone in bed, dark cool room, all things that are supposed to be good sleep hygiene. I also have tried melatonin and some other similar things. I exercise during the day even though I feel awful in hopes that will also help. The fact that it’s not falling asleep but waking makes it harder. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

 

[seaurchin]

Ugh, yeah, not being able to fall sleep or waking up too early are PITAs. Now I just take something for it right away.

There are so many over the counter things to try: Sleepytime Tea, melatonin, Benadryl, "This Works Sleep Spray," etc. I'd think it would be worth it if you have at least a couple of hours to go before you have to get up.

 

[MamaBee]

I sympathize because I have the same issues. Pre-Covid I had to get up with my son at 5:30 to get him ready for his program. If I had a bad night..which I pretty much always did..I would be a total zombie during the day. I’ve actually walked into woodwork passing through a door from being so groggy...many times..Now that he’s home with me..if I‘m awake four hours in the middle of the night..I can fall asleep towards early morning. I’ll get a few hours that way. Have you tried melatonin? I know a lot of people that say it works for them. The one thing that sometimes works for me is I get out of bed and come on here to PS..They say the lights will make you more awake though…What I do is lower my brightness on my phone very low..I keep the lights off…and sit in a chair and read the posts until I get super tired. By that time I can sometimes go back to bed and sleep. I wake up every two hours on a good night..but can go back to sleep..after visiting the BR..Don’t drink a lot of fluid before going to bed. Try exercising in the morning instead of the afternoon because that’s also energizing. It can keep you up. Good luck..It’s torture..

 

[Mreader]

I sympathize because I have the same issues. Pre-Covid I had to get up with my son at 5:30 to get him ready for his program. If I had a bad night..which I pretty much always did..I would be a total zombie during the day. I’ve actually walked into woodwork passing through a door from being so groggy...many times..Now that he’s home with me..if I‘m awake four hours in the middle of the night..I can fall asleep towards early morning. I’ll get a few hours that way. Have you tried melatonin? I know a lot of people that say it works for them. The one thing that sometimes works for me is I get out of bed and come on here to PS..They say the lights will make you more awake though…What I do is lower my brightness on my phone very low..I keep the lights off…and sit in a chair and read the posts until I get super tired. By that time I can sometimes go back to bed and sleep. I wake up every two hours on a good night..but can go back to sleep..after visiting the BR..Don’t drink a lot of fluid before going to bed. Try exercising in the morning instead of the afternoon because that’s also energizing. It can keep you up. Good luck..It’s torture..

That sounds soooo hard! And yes I have tried melatonin. I keep waking still.

 

[marymm]

How are your evening eating/drinking habits? Have you tried no foods/only water after dinnertime?

Do you have a humidifier for your bedroom?

Do you take any prescriptions or OTC meds that can affect night-time sleep?

 

[Mreader]

How are your evening eating/drinking habits? Have you tried no foods/only water after dinnertime?

Do you have a humidifier for your bedroom?

Do you take any prescriptions or OTC meds that can affect night-time sleep?

I have a white noise machine I only drink water and coffee in general; coffee only in the morning. I do usually snack before bed though - bananas or yogurt. I am on an anti-depressant which is what got me out of PPD/anxiety hell the first time and allowed me to have more normal sleep. I’ve had blips since; but this one is rockier than previous blips. No other OTCs.

 

[Begonia]

How much coffee do you drink and how late is your last cup? I have insomnia too and altho food and drink don't cause it, they can make it worse. Chocolate and sugar are a no no for me after 2 pm as well. Just a thought?

 

[Mreader]

How much coffee do you drink and how late is your last cup? I have insomnia too and altho food and drink don't cause it, they can make it worse. Chocolate and sugar are a no no for me after 2 pm as well. Just a thought?

I have quite the love affair with coffee. I drink two lattes in the morning, but I have been avoiding in afternoon. Trying to cut out sugary things should be on my list; that can be tough...

 

[missy]

So I have trouble staying asleep. I am better but not perfect. I always wake at 4-5AM and so I just go to bed earlier.
If that is not an option here is what I do if I wake in the middle of the night and cannot fall back to sleep.

1. Magnesium spray. It really works. It has raised my blood levels of Mg. I spray before bed and spray if I wake up and cannot fall back to sleep.

2. CBD dummies. I use Mendi. I take one before bed and if I wake and cannot fall back to sleep within 20 minutes I take another.

3. How are your blood levels for progesterone? If it is low consider asking your gyn for an RX for Progesterone capsules. They do help.

4. Stuff you already know. Make sure you exercise early in the day. Get sunlight/outdoors early if you can. Cut out all caffeine after 9/10AM depending on how sensitive you are.

5. Sometimes getting out of bed (counterintuitive I know) can help make you sleepy. Or reading a book if you wake up in the middle of the night. Preferably a boring one. Get a book light so as not to disturb your DH. I turn the TV on and it helps me fall back. I know counterintuitive but for me it works.

6. An RX for LDN. It helps some people fall asleep/stay asleep. I take 4.5 mg. It is a safe med for most. Check it out and see if you think it might be helpful.

7. Check your saliva cortisol. You could be out of tune with the diurnal cortisol curve and if you are there are supplements that will help. ZRT 24 hour cortisol saliva test. The best one to do. I take Cortisol manager and Holy Basil at night based on my results and it works.

OK that's all I can think of for now. Good luck and if you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[CSpan]

I have blips when I start traveling. I have tried all the things and honestly, the easiest quickest solution is to ask for Rx ambien if you can tolerate it. I usually do a pill to half a pill every other night and I'm reset and good to go.

 

[Sprinkles&Stones]

Aww I’m sorry you’re going through this. I drink Natural Vitality Calm Magnesium before bed, and it helps a lot. A lot of people are magnesium deficient too so that’s a added plus.
I’ve been talking to my therapist and doctor about my monthly cycle effecting sleep too. I didn’t know this before but our hormones during our cycle can cause insomnia for a few weeks. I have PPMD and that causes me to have insomnia too. I’ve recently been taking supplements to help regulate hormones, we will see if that helps.
Good for you for being so conscious about your sleep hygiene. I hope it clears up for you. You’re not alone! Let us know if any trying your try helps and we can see what other things we can come up with.

 

[Mreader]

@missy thanks for those tips; I just started Magnesium citrate; I'll look into the spray and the CBD which I have never tried. @CSpan I have an old script of Ambien and I have taken it but it knocks me flat immediately and then I still wake up; I know people can react to it differently! And yes @Sprinkles&Stones it is clear I am not alone it looks like many of us struggle with this!!

 

[CSpan]

@missy thanks for those tips; I just started Magnesium citrate; I'll look into the spray and the CBD which I have never tried. @CSpan I have an old script of Ambien and I have taken it but it knocks me flat immediately and then I still wake up; I know people can react to it differently! And yes @Sprinkles&Stones it is clear I am not alone it looks like many of us struggle with this!!

Oh boo! I know some people can't tolerate it at all. I wake up refreshed and sleep straight through. They gave me Xanax at one point, safer? Who knows, and it left me so groggy all morning i tossed it.

 

[Mreader]

Oh boo! I know some people can't tolerate it at all. I wake up refreshed and sleep straight through. They gave me Xanax at one point, safer? Who knows, and it left me so groggy all morning i tossed it.

Yep I have that too and use it when necessary. It definitely helps me get asleep but doesn’t stop the waking. I try not to use it too much both because it is a habit forming drug and also because no doctor will prescribe it anymore which is pretty frustrating. So what little I have, I have to only use for emergencies!

 

[Gloria27]

Some people are wired differently, and it's inherited too! Some who are light sleepers and don't fall asleep easily also are quicker than others in everything, movement, speech etc. These people should not drink coffee at all, period!
Try Rooibos tea intead, caffeine is a big factor in insomnia and anxiety.
I would not stuff myself with pills, not my culture, sorry.

 

[Arcadian]

I take NeuroMag, which helps a lot. I take with dinner. https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item01603/neuro-mag-magnesium-l-threonate

You can also try l-theonine by itself. I generally use this when I cannot go back to sleep. not habit forming, does get me back to sleep, I don't feel like I was hit with a sledge hammer when its time to get up.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

I've struggled with insomnia for close to my entire life. My parents have explained that as an infant all the way through puberty they'd wake up & come check on me and I'd be wide awake cooing & smiling or talking to myself or singing a song when I was older.

My night life has been particularly interesting because of the fact that I've never slept that well.

I've learned to live with it quite honestly, but in cases where it's gotten terrible I'm also someone that responds amazingly well to ambien. It works incredibly fast but it also has a fast half life so isn't great for those who wake up after getting some rest.

I hope you find a solution that works best for you & makes you wake feeling refreshed. Our sleep can affect so many different areas of our life, I know for me it can easily cycle into depressive episodes.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful but I'll be following along for more tips!

 

[Mreader]

I

I hope you find a solution that works best for you & makes you wake feeling refreshed. Our sleep can affect so many different areas of our life, I know for me it can easily cycle into depressive episodes.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful but I'll be following along for more tips!

Thank you @LemonMoonLex and yes the lack of sleep really causes me to get down, so can totally relate to that. The hard part about sleep is that it isn't something you can "try" at; it is something that happens when you aren't making an effort. "Trying" to get to sleep just makes it harder to get to sleep!!!

 

[Mreader]

 

[MamaBee]

This is so true! I do stuff like that all the time!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I have insomnia. I asked my DH to buy some CBD gummies to help my sleep. I took one last night and do I ever feel weird today. Lightheaded. Kinda dizzy. Maybe I should have only taken half to start.
@missy did you have this when you first started the gummies?

cheers--Sharon

 

[missy]

HI:

I have insomnia. I asked my DH to buy some CBD gummies to help my sleep. I took one last night and do I ever feel weird today. Lightheaded. Kinda dizzy. Maybe I should have only taken half to start.
@missy did you have this when you first started the gummies?

cheers--Sharon

I started our with half to start for a few nights and then started with a whole gummy. Try half tonight and see how it goes. Occasionally I take two now lol.

 

[winnietucker]

Half a pill of unisom is the only thing I’ve tried that works. I’ve don the other stuff - sleep hygiene, no screens, no caffeine/ no caffeine after whatever time, magnesium, exercise, melatonin, meditation… and unisom is the best. Half a pill, I sleep by 8-8:30 on days I work my regular schedule the next day (work at 6 am to 2:30 - 4:30 pm), and I feel ok the next day. A whole pill makes me feel groggy the next day.

 

[yssie]

I think my body is tuned for a 28-30 hour rhythm. The result of decades of attempting to force a 24 hour cycle is that now I just go to sleep when I’m sleepy, which is around midnight one day, then 2am the next day, then 4am the day after… At which point I simply don’t sleep at all. And then that night I’m tired enough to fall asleep at midnight again, and the cycle resets for repeat.

I really think I would have done much better on the regular sleep front back in the days when it was normal to sleep for a short time twice a day.

Sorry. I know that wasn’t exactly useful to you. I do wonder how many people just aren’t designed for a traditional sleep schedule - but of course most of us are stuck having to wake up at the same time every day!

 

[Mreader]

Half a pill of unisom is the only thing I’ve tried that works. I’ve don the other stuff - sleep hygiene, no screens, no caffeine/ no caffeine after whatever time, magnesium, exercise, melatonin, meditation… and unisom is the best. Half a pill, I sleep by 8-8:30 on days I work my regular schedule the next day (work at 6 am to 2:30 - 4:30 pm), and I feel ok the next day. A whole pill makes me feel groggy the next day.

Do you take this every night?

 

[Mreader]

I think my body is tuned for a 28-30 hour rhythm. The result of decades of attempting to force a 24 hour cycle is that now I just go to sleep when I’m sleepy, which is around midnight one day, then 2am the next day, then 4am the day after… At which point I simply don’t sleep at all. And then that night I’m tired enough to fall asleep at midnight again, and the cycle resets for repeat.

I really think I would have done much better on the regular sleep front back in the days when it was normal to sleep for a short time twice a day.

Sorry. I know that wasn’t exactly useful to you. I do wonder how many people just aren’t designed for a traditional sleep schedule - but of course most of us are stuck having to wake up at the same time every day!

Yes I have to be up early so that wouldn’t work! Lol. Also I just can tell that I bed about 8 hrs to feel normal.

 

[winnietucker]

Do you take this every night?

Yeah I have been. After some time I’ll sometimes not take it on the weekend to see what happens, but I always wake up around 2-4 am and stay up, so I go back to taking it again. I understand it’s supposed to be a temporary sleep aid but I need to be on my A game at work.

 

[Mreader]

Yeah I have been. After some time I’ll sometimes not take it on the weekend to see what happens, but I always wake up around 2-4 am and stay up, so I go back to taking it again. I understand it’s supposed to be a temporary sleep aid but I need to be on my A game at work.

I totally understand! And wow it looks like so many of us struggle with this issue!!

 

[missy]

@Mreader here is some updated info from one of my journals. FYI.

"here are several supplements, discussed below, which may help to improve sleep -- as well as several which may interfere with sleep. Use the links to get more details, including dosage, cautions and ConsumerLab.com's ratings of tested products. What you eat may also affect sleep.

The following supplements may improve sleep:

Melatonin is one the most popular supplements for sleep. It can help you fall asleep faster, although it will not necessarily help you sleep longer. Some research has shown it may also improve the quality of sleep in people with tinnitus, and improve sleep quality and duration in people with autism. However, be aware that taking melatonin may increase leg movements in restless legs syndrome.

Tart cherries contain a small amount of melatonin, and there is some evidence that tart cherry juices, concentrates and extracts may contain enough melatonin to improve sleep for some people. One study, for example, found that drinking two 8 oz. glasses of tart cherry juice daily moderately improved some measures of sleep, such as reducing waking after falling asleep in older adults.

L-tryptophan and 5-HTP are amino acids which are used by the body to produce melatonin (as well as serotonin). L-tryptophan supplements can increase sleepiness and decrease the time needed to fall asleep in people with mild insomnia, but have not been shown to increase sleep time. They do not appear to be helpful for people with severe insomnia. (Be sure to read Concerns and Cautions for these supplements.)

L-theanine, an amino acid found in black and green tea, can reduce stress and improve sleep quality, but does not cause drowsiness. Interestingly, L-theanine may also help to increase alertness during the day.

There is preliminary evidence that CBD (cannabidiol) can help improve sleep in people with insomnia and other conditions that can cause difficulty sleeping, such as anxiety and Parkinson's disease.

One small study found magnesium reduced leg movement associated with waking in people with restless leg syndrome, although this study was not blinded or placebo controlled.

Ashwagandha may improve sleep quality and decrease the amount of time it takes to fall asleep, as well as reduce anxiety, according to one clinical trial.

Saffron extract has been shown to provide some very modest and limited sleep benefits in small, clinical trials among middle-aged people using extracts made by the companies that funded the studies. In one study, in Australia, 14 mg of saffron extract (affron, Pharmactive Biotech Products -- standardized to 3.5% lepticrosalides [i.e., total crocin, picrocrocin and safranal]) taken twice daily for 28 days modestly reduced self-reported severity of insomnia symptoms (i.e., difficulty falling and staying asleep, early morning awakenings) and improved sleep quality (as indicated by reported tiredness, mood, and energy) compared to placebo. Most of these improvements occurred within the first seven days of supplementation (Lopresti, J Clin Sleep Med 2020). [Note: The same extract has also been found to decrease symptoms of depression.]

A second study using the same product tested a higher (28 mg) dose as well as the 14 mg dose and found them to provide similar levels of improvement (25% and 22%, respectively) in self-reported sleep quality compared to an 8% improvement with placebo. However, neither dose improved alertness after awakening, total sleep time, time to sleep onset, number of awakenings after falling asleep, or daytime sleepiness compared to placebo. Interestingly, saffron extract modestly increased blood levels of melatonin in the evenings compared to placebo, which the researchers suggested might contribute to saffron's effects on sleep (Lopresti, Sleep Med 2021).

A study in Belgium, among men and women with mild to moderate insomnia and anxiety, found that taking 15.5 mg of saffron extract (Saffr'activ — providing 0.9 mg crocins and 0.7 mg safranal) with water every evening for six weeks slightly increased sleep duration (by about 8 minutes per night versus a decrease of about 8 minutes in the placebo group), but had no statistically significant impact, compared to placebo, on the time it took to fall asleep or other measures of sleep quality. Interestingly, the placebo group showed greater improvement than the saffron group in self-reported "social functioning." (Pachikian, Nutrients 2021). Saffr'activ is sold in the U.S. as an ingredient in Vitacost Synergy Saffron Extract.

Valerian is commonly used as a sleep aid, although the evidence behind this use is mixed. One study reported an improvement in sleep for postmenopausal women who suffered from insomnia; however, a review of 37 studies of valerian concluded it was probably not effective for treating insomnia. Like ashwagandha, however, it may have a calming effect and be helpful for stress and anxiety, which can contribute to insomnia.

Prevagen, a branded supplement that contains jellyfish protein, and PQQ, and antioxidant compound, have each been tested in a single study and found to improve sleep -- however neither study was placebo-controlled.

The following supplements may make it more difficult to fall asleep or stay asleep:

In addition to the obvious culprits - such as energy drinks, weight loss supplements and cocoaproducts which contain caffeine and/or other stimulants - supplements such as red yeast rice, garlic, policosanol (a common ingredient in cholesterol-lowering supplements), DHEA and chromium have been reported to cause insomnia in some people. Vitamin D and CoQ10, taken in high doses or at nighttime, may also make it difficult to fall asleep.

There is also some evidence that diet, and specifically, carbohydrate intake, can affect the risk of insomnia. A study that followed over 50,000 postmenopausal women in the U.S. found that those whose diets were highest on the dietary glycemic index (i.e., diets that most increase blood sugar levels) were 11% more likely to have insomnia at the start of the study and 16% more likely to develop insomnia over the next three years than those whose diets were lowest on the dietary glycemic index. Higher risk of developing insomnia was specifically associated with higher intakes of added sugars, starch, and refined grains, while higher intakes of fruit (but not fruit juice) and vegetables, dietary fiber, and whole grains were associated with a lower risk (Gangwisch, Am J Clin Nutr. 2019).

"

 

[Mreader]

@missy thank you for this! Since I've posted this I have gotten some CBD gummies, as well as a supplement that contains lots of ingredients that are listed above including melatonin (it's called "Supersnooze" lol). I have an appt next week with GYN to test hormone levels as well. I'm curious since you said you wake at 4-5 every morning, are you not fatigued during the day? Even though you go to bed early? For me to feel "normal" if I woke that early I would have to have a bedtime of 8 pm (which isn't gonna happen).