Insomnia ... Any tips?

[Mreader]

Sorry you are struggling with this. I have similar issues. What has been helping is the Simple Habit app or listening to a boring book with a soothing voice (they make sleep masks with Bluetooth speakers in them so it won’t disrupt your partner). If I can distract my mind a bit I can relax and fall back to sleep. If I go down the “what will I wear tomorrow” I go down the rabbit hole of EVERYTHING happening tomorrow. There is a “Sleep with me” podcast you could also try. Very monotone boring voice to lull you to sleep.

I'll look that up I have Insight Timer meditation app. Some of them are really "out there" but others more soothing.

 

[missy]

I have been having some sleep issues and I thought "I bet some PSers have dealt this and it's already a topic in Hangout" and sure enough here it is. Are you still doing well @missy sans Ambien? After I had my kid 5 years ago and was up all night because of the baby sleep schedule I suffered terribly. As soon as the baby slept better I could not and it became a huge issue where I would be afraid to go to bed for fear of not being able to falling asleep, and it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I was always an anxious person but it skyrocketed during that time. I had to take antidepressants to get better. It helped a lot. But I have to say my sleep never returned to totally normal and occasionally it rears its head again. What has been happening lately is that I go to sleep but then wake up at 4 or 5 and can't go back to sleep and start freaking out like "oh no I am having a repeat of what happened years ago" which again becomes self-fulfilling. I know rationally that thinking like that only makes things worse but it is difficult to control. Sleep is one of the few things that you can't "try" at since the act of sleeping happens when you aren't ruminating on it!! So it's very hard. I try to think of boring things like "what will I wear the next day?" or "what meals should I eat this week?" etc. This can help but only if I can get the anxiety part out of the picture. I really sympathize with the others here who spoke about their sleep issues because it's so tough to try to get through the day when you are sleep-deprived.

Hi @Mreader. I am sorry you are dealing with this. Sleep is critical to feeling well and I understand completely.

You might want to consider a 24 hour saliva cortisol test as that could pinpoint any issues and what treatment would work best. This is what is working for me currently based on my cortisol test.

I take Holy Basil before bedtime. It lowers my cortisol and allows me to fall asleep. I have no issues falling asleep. Staying asleep can be challenging but if I take 3 HB before bed it helps. I also take 4.5 mg LDN and I will link it for you at the end of my post. I also take Magnesium Glycinate before bed and 100 mg Progesterone (I am menopausal so that is why I am taking Progesterone and it helps sleep quality).

Also and this may be obvious but it bears mentioning. I keep the bedroom cold (60s F) and dark. The cool temps help me sleep for sure because when it is warmer I have issues.

And some people need to eat a little fat/protein/carb right before bed to keep their blood sugar from waking them up in the middle of the night. I eat some almond butter right before bedtime.

https://ldnresearchtrust.org/sites/default/files/2020-04/Patient-Info-a4_0.pdf

A link to the 24 hour cortisol test.

Diurnal Cortisol Curves - ZRT Laboratory

A diurnal cortisol curve is commonly used for assessing adrenal hormones. Taken from four daily collections – upon waking, before lunch, dinner and bed – and charted on a 24-hour graph.

www.zrtlab.com

FYI Holy Basil.

Tulsi - Ocimum sanctum: A herb for all reasons

The predominant cause of global morbidity and mortality is lifestyle-related chronic diseases, many of which can be addressed through Ayurveda with its focus on healthy lifestyle practices and regular consumption of adaptogenic herbs. Of all the herbs ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hope that helps and feel free to ask any questions.

 

[Mreader]

Hope that helps and feel free to ask any questions.

Thank you for all of these helpful suggestions! I'm glad to hear that your sleep quality is still good. I worry about menopause because I know that can really affect sleep and it hasn't hit me (yet) but I'm in my 40s so I know it's coming...

 

[missy]

Thank you for all of these helpful suggestions! I'm glad to hear that your sleep quality is still good. I worry about menopause because I know that can really affect sleep and it hasn't hit me (yet) but I'm in my 40s so I know it's coming...

It’s my pleasure. And remember one day at a time. Don’t worry about what you can’t control. When the time comes you’ll figure it out. Wishing you sweet dreams.

 

[siamese3]

@missy what brand of holy basil do you like? Also, the suggestion about the 24 hour saliva cortisol test is super interesting.

 

[mom2dolls]

I also have insomnia, have for almost 10 years. I have tried most natural routes. Only thing that works is Tylenol PM and a lavender bath every night. Meds have been approved by dr.

 

[missy]

@missy what brand of holy basil do you like? Also, the suggestion about the 24 hour saliva cortisol test is super interesting.

I like the Gaia and Himalaya brands.





Yes the saliva cortisol testing is a pain to prepare for as one must stop any supplements/meds (if it is possible that is) that interfere with cortisol 2 weeks prior to the test and no caffeine or exercise morning of the test. Having said that it is a worthwhile test to see what your cortisol is doing throughout the day and can explain reasons why we are not sleeping well and other issues.

 

[rainydaze]

I'm so sorry you have insomnia Mreader. Have you tried Magnesium? Apparently many of us are low on that, and sleep is one of the things that being low affects. The type of magnesium you take is important, I believe it needs to be glycinate, and powder form is absorbed by the body much better. (Although, I couldn't reconcile the taste. I take a good pill form which still seems to work for me. I use it for headaches though, and take it regularly just because of all the negatives of being low.)

I hear you on liking a warm room, but I do find that when it starts out warm I end up waking up and have trouble falling back to sleep. For me it's a fine line; at 71-72 I tend to wake up. Higher than that, I cannot fall asleep (and I do not have trouble with sleep). At 68 or lower I sleep soundly. Since you set yours to 76, maybe try lowering it quite a bit (70?) and have a nice warm comforter. You may be cold at first, but if you can power through that, you may find you fall asleep and stay asleep. Our bodies are programmed to sense a drop in temperature as a signal to sleep, from way back when we didn't have thermostats and lighting to interfere with these signals. Worth a shot anyway?

 

[rainydaze]

Back again with a couple more thoughts....

I have heard that drinking white wine has the odd effect of causing people to wake up around 3am and not fall back to sleep. It sounded like something that happens as we get a little older, around our 40s. I thought that was silly, until it started happening to my DH... and then happened to me! I hardly ever drink, but twice when I did, wah-lah, I was awake in the wee hours of the morning.

My DH is also crazy sensitive to caffeine, specifically coffee. I can drink coffee and take a nap immediately after. If he drinks a caffeinated coffee after 10am, he doesn't fall asleep until 11pm or later, and wakes up at 3-4am (and doesn't fall back to sleep). Recently he stopped having caffeinated coffee after 10am and he is zonked by 9pm, asleep by 10pm or so, and usually sleeps until 5-6am. Crazy!

Final thought: I think others have mentioned it here as well - I would get checked out by your doctor to see if your levels indicate you are perimenopausal. That can definitely mess with your sleep. If you are, I believe you can get help balancing things, which might help with your sleep. I think I have been peri since 40-41 (haven't had an workups done, though I have been meaning to), and for the most part I would never have guessed. My sister chuckled at me once and said when did you start meno, and then my GYN was listening to me and said sounds like you're perimeno. The symptoms are mild and like I said, I would never have connected the dots. It's not totally uncommon for it to start this young.

 

[Arcadian]

You may consider to do a hormone check, just to rule it out. I can be very insomniac and only got worse as I got older. Come to find out my lack of hormones caused a great deal of the issue.

I still wake up at 3am but I actually go back to sleep by 3:15. Thats a miracle after many many years of laying awake, telling myself to go back to sleep or even getting up and just working because I knew I would never fall asleep again)

I never took ambien, too much of a slippery slope, but I DID drink in spurts. I don't drink like I used to which I also believe helps as well. You can even try benedryl (some do, just to sleep) but I would not use unless you actually have allergy issues keeping you awake.

But ther are some things you can try, none of which are a magic bullet!

you can TRY CBD. but, be aware that you may have to take quite a bit.

you can also try Magnesium L-theronate in the evening, which believe it or not can help relax you enough to sleep.

L-Theonine, also has been studied and can help you relax enough to sleep (notice this will not put you to sleep but can help you feel tired enough to do so) I take this with dinner.

And there's a host of other things you can do as suggested, minimize the food on your stomach before bed, nothing too stressful before bed, etc.

My bedroom is my sanctuary, which means I keep the outside world for entering. (no tv, no computer, I have a room mister for EO's though!!) I try to keep things that are stressful like work, from entering my bedroom. I won't go to bed mad. I won't go to bed angry, especially at my husband. (he won't go to bed angry with me either)

IMO its not just one thing but can be many things, but, if you're a woman of a certain age, rule out it being hormonal first.

 

[Mreader]

You guys are the sweetest. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try magnesium; I do the other things - exercise, dark room, no media etc. I can't lower my thermostat that much without having a super high electric bill. We are at 100 degree temps during the day where I am. So that's the main reason I wouldn't want to put the AC on 70. I'm sure my issue is anxiety more than anything else. 5 years ago, I had a baby, moved 1,000 miles away to a place I'm not fond of, and suddenly lost my mom. All that happened within a span of 6 months. Though I had always been an anxious person, it just was through the roof and that's when the up all night massive insomnia happened. Nursing a sleepless newborn made it 1000 times worse. And like I mentioned earlier, I would dread and fear going to bed for fear I wasn't going to sleep and then that would happen and I would be up all night and feel so awful and even more sad the following day. After months of that hell, it was recommended that I start an anti-depressant (something I had resisted for years). It was miraculous for me and helped so much. However sometimes I slip back into it, and it seems like I am slipping again. So I always wake to pee at night, and usually stumble back to bed no problem. But for a couple of nights I couldn't get back to sleep after and then that got the cycle of fear going again. It has happened again last night. I just hate feeling horrible and tired the whole next day trying to work and parent etc so again the cycle of feeling sad builds. What I am doing is increasing my dose of the AD - I have had to do that before and then was able to back off - so am hopeful that helps and then I can reduce the dose again. What's crazy is that nothing bad is going on in my life right now; we are healthy, job is flexible, sweet kid, good bling lol. It is all in my freaking head. Anyway sorry if that is TMI - so glad to have this forum as it's so much more than bling. There is that degree of anonymity that I don't have of course on FB or other social media. Thanks guys. (insert heart emojis - I have seen others put heart emojis and I don't know how you do it, because I don't see it as one of the PS options. If it's a key command let me know!).

 

[lala646]

I'll look that up I have Insight Timer meditation app. Some of them are really "out there" but others more soothing.

I use "Delta Waves & Oceanic Sounds for Deep Rest" on Insight Timer. That really helped me when I had a particularly bad spurt of insomnia back in 2019. Recently, getting consistent exercise has really helped my sleep patterns improve. I'm usually out within 10 minutes, and though I wake frequently, I fall back to sleep without too much problem.

 

[tyty333]

Another idea...we do turn the AC down at night but not a lot. We use a standup fan in our bedroom (along with our ceiling fan).
It's good for two things...gets the air moving so cools down the room even more but also gives us a background humming sound
that helps drown out any noise and sort of lulls you to sleep. We have a remote control for the fan in case we wake up in the middle
of the night too cold. Just click the switch by the bed. Its rare to get too cold but it occasionally happens.

 

[rainydaze]

Oh boy... case in point that relativity matters! 76 where 100 is the norm is a lot different from 76 where 20-85 is the norm!

I hope you are able to find something that works for you! All the better if that something also helps with anxiety.

 

[GliderPoss]

I can sympathise as I'm a light sleeper myself. I find the following helps:

• Exercise
• Less caffeine
• less screen time before bed
• Hot milk
• Hot shower
• Cold bedroom, warm bed
• Listen to calming meditation/music/ASMR on headphones
• Blackout curtains
• Sleeping pills - just don't use them daily but can help break a bad routine!

 

[kgizo]

If room temperature is an issue a bedjet or chilipad costs $$, but not as much as setting the AC lower.

 

[finerthings]

I'm going through a terrible time with this lately. I have struggled with insomnia for a couple of years, but it improved when I went back on low dose estrogen. (I'm post menopausal.) But the insomnia started up again when I got COVID at the end of September and even though I'm recovered the insomnia is a beast. I've read that insomnia can linger with long COVID . My doctor has given me a prescription for Ambien and I have used a half of a 5mg pill when I haven't had sleep after a couple of days. Anyone have any advice? I've read this whole thread - melatonin doesn't work, afraid to take Holy Basil.... as I'm crazy sensitive to things. I have a sound machine, walk daily, drink decaf only, cool bedroom etc, but I just lie in bed awake at night. Thanks in advance to my insomniac friends out there.

 

[pearlsngems]

Is your bed supportive enough?
Do you have any minor aches and pains that contribute to wakefulness?

I don't have insomnia generally but if I'm a bit achier than usual I have learned to take Tylenol an hour or two before bedtime. I also make sure to rotate our mattress every couple of weeks since even a little sagging may make me uncomfortable enough to have difficulty falling asleep.

Also-- and I expect you have already considered this, but in case you have not-- chocolate also contains caffeine.

 

[finerthings]

Thanks @pearlsngems, all good suggestions. Our mattress is nice and supportive. As far as aches and pains, nothing really, and not changed in many years.

Chocolate, I love, but don't indulge in very much because of the caffeine.

 

[missy]

Do you know your DHEA levels? If low it could cause sleep issues

 

[finerthings]

Hi @missy, thank you. I don't know my DHEA levels, maybe I should ask my endocrinologist to add this to my blood work in January as she is double checking my thyroid hormone because a few months ago the reading was very slightly elevated.

I'm just hoping that this new onset of insomnia will improve after a few more months... long COVID related?

 

[missy]

Hi @missy, thank you. I don't know my DHEA levels, maybe I should ask my endocrinologist to add this to my blood work in January as she is double checking my thyroid hormone because a few months ago the reading was very slightly elevated.

I'm just hoping that this new onset of insomnia will improve after a few more months... long COVID related?

Yes, that could be the cause and then hopefully in time you’ll get back to improved sleep.

 

[MoxiRoxi]

I'm going through a terrible time with this lately. I have struggled with insomnia for a couple of years, but it improved when I went back on low dose estrogen. (I'm post menopausal.) But the insomnia started up again when I got COVID at the end of September and even though I'm recovered the insomnia is a beast. I've read that insomnia can linger with long COVID . My doctor has given me a prescription for Ambien and I have used a half of a 5mg pill when I haven't had sleep after a couple of days. Anyone have any advice? I've read this whole thread - melatonin doesn't work, afraid to take Holy Basil.... as I'm crazy sensitive to things. I have a sound machine, walk daily, drink decaf only, cool bedroom etc, but I just lie in bed awake at night. Thanks in advance to my insomniac friends out there.

Do you take a magnesium supplement? that Has helped me a lot.
.

 

[finerthings]

Yes, Magnesium Glycinate 120mg x 2 each night with calcium 500mg. How much do you take each night? Thanks @MoxiRoxi.

 

[bananaboat]

I used to rely on benadryl or tylenol night time until I got this... Gets me to sleep most of the times

 

[missy]

This is for anyone reading who is dealing with insomnia. I recently realized that low DHEA can interfere with a good night's sleep. Mine was pretty low but for me the problem is I convert DHEA to DHT which c causes other issues for me. But I am now taking low dose DHEA (dissolving tab and a dab of cream also) twice a day due to the short half life and I am sleeping better. But I have only been doing this for one month so we shall see. Sharing here in case it helps anyone else. It is OTC or RX whichever you prefer.

DHEA administration increases rapid eye movement sleep and EEG power in the sigma frequency range - PubMed

Dehydroepi-androsterone (DHEA) exhibits various behavioral effects in mammals, at least one of which is enhancement of memory that appears to be mediated by an interaction with the gamma-aminobutyric acidA (GABAA) receptor complex. We investigated the effects of a single oral dose of DHEA (500...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"According to medical research by Dr. E. Friess and colleagues, “DHEA administration induced a significant (P<0.05) increase in rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, whereas all other sleep variables remained unchanged compared with placebo conditions.” Their research suggests that DHEA can improve the overall quality of your deep REM sleep"

 

[finerthings]

@missy, thank you. You are always a treasure trove of information!

 

[finerthings]

@bananaboat Thanks for your melatonin recommendation. I have tried the pills and haven't had any luck with those. Perhaps in a pinch I could try the drops and see if they are more effective.

 

[jeweln]

Finerthings

I also get insomnia from time to time . I learned that as you age you need less sleep . If I am physically tired , it also helps . . Lately I have started drinking chamomile tea just before I close my bedside light . It is an herb that helps with relaxation , it is caffeine free. I feel drinking a hot drink just before closing my eyes really relaxes my body . you can try warm skim milk . Also once I close my eyes , I try not to think about complicated things , I imagine myself swimming or floating on my back in a deep clean pool . The most important thing is not to worry about it . If I sleep for 3 hours one night , I feel very tired & depressed the next day but I dont take naps . I find that I do sleep better the second night .

5 Ways Chamomile Tea Benefits Your Health

Chamomile is an herb that has long been consumed as a natural health remedy. This article reviews the top 5 benefits of chamomile tea.

www.healthline.com

 

[finerthings]

@jeweln Great advice and do like to drink tea before bed as well, unfortunately I have a ragweed allergy so camomile tea is off my drinking list. I drink a decaf vanilla/black tea blend and it is soothing but doesn't seem to help put me to sleep.

I appreciate everyone's help.
Happy Thanksgiving!