Important DEALER /SELLER ALERT READ - URGENT

[RockDoc]

I received an email from a potential purchaser ...

They are asking if I would accept credit cards and ship internationally. Since I don''t sell diamonds I referred them to my website for dealers who will send me stones.


The e-mail return is manager@ kayona.com

I did check the internet for a website by that name and get a yahoo parent directory.

One of the listed dealers on my website received the identical email but signed by a different person from the same website.


Be very cautious as this potentially may be a scammer who wants to get a stone using phony, or stolen credit cards.

The are requesting a 1.50 carat GIA or AGS graded E- VVS-1, but the emails could be altered to different sellers.


If you get this email, post the details of it here so that no one gets scammed!


Rockdoc

 

[ForteKitty]

These people email private eBay sellers al the time. Story''s always the same, name & location''s different... all frauds. They target high ticket items. One of my friends was selling a $1000 phone, and he nearly lost everything to some guy in Indonesia. The payment via paypal was reversed because the CC was stolen, and luckily he was able to retrieve his package before it left the docks!

Ever since then, when i browse eBay for fun and see these questions answered by unsuspecting sellers (you have the option of posting questions publicly), i always email them to warn them! I saved some lady from losing a $10,000 ring! She managed to track it down in Spain, and stopped the delivery! Scary!

 

[WinkHPD]

That email was received and deleted by me several times. Very Common, very BAD!

Here is today''s

From: xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx
To: url]">
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: Mail Orders
> Dear Sir or Madam,
>
> I interested to buy :
>
> 1.5 Carat Round Diamond Very Good-cut, E-color, and VVS1-clarity with
AGS or GIA the certificate. ----- > Qty : 1
>
> How much for this diamonds ?
>
> Do you have at this time ?
>
> Do you accepted visa and mastercard on the payment?
>
> Could you ship my orders to singapore by FedEx International Priority or
UPS express ?
>
> I would like to hearing from you on your earliest time.Please reply
directlyon the current e-mail address.Please don''t hesitate to reply me
soon.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Sincerely
>xxx xxxxxx>
>
>

 

[ForteKitty]

call the cc company and alert them so they can''t keep charging it!

 

[RockDoc]

Hi Wink

My apolgies for this.... It''s the EXACT same email I received earlier today.

She probably got your name from my site and listing of dealers who send stones to be checked.

I personally called most of the dealers but still made an "annoucement" on several other sites to keep anyone from their harvesting.

Send me the name that signed the email in PM, and we can see if it is the same. The one I did verify with another seller was different from the name that signed my email.

While I doubt that any knowledgeable seller on the internet would ship accepting a credit card internationally, you never know who they are able to access.

Rockdoc

 

[jennalyns]

I live in Asia, and I prefer to pay for things by credit card, because my bank is a pain, every time I go there for anything it takes at least an hour. I also want things shipped FedEx International Priority or UPS Express because of the insurance they provide and because stuff just takes forever and a day to get here otherwise, and USPS won't insure over a certain amount for express mail.... Just because someone is in Asia and wants to purchase a diamond doesn't mean they're a scammer.

I know that there are a lot of people scamming out there and people have to be very careful, but I hope that the vendors don't automatically reject a potential *real* customer just because they're overseas.

Maybe that's why 2 emails I sent to a vendor several months ago went unanswered- because I asked if they accepted credit cards, and shipped internationally?? So Whiteflash got my business instead!

We paid for our first purchase from them by bank transfer, but they did give us the option of using my credit card.

 

[WinkHPD]

I have sold to several people in your part of the world, but they sent "real" emails to me, not something obviously designed to be sent to dozens of people just to see who is dumb enough to take the bait.

A real email will be requesting infromation about a specific stone or in some way personalized to ask a question about an item on my site. The above letter was a generic letter designed to trap any one careless enough to fall into its trap. It is not that we automatically reject any email from Asia, but we get into the habit of automatically rejecting any email that smells even a little fishy, no matter where it is from. I would rather miss many sales than fall for even one fraud; there just is no margin for error with the margins we make on the net.

Also, a generic letter, "what do you have from size x - y, etc" means that you are one of many receiving the same letter. It takes too much time to respond to a fishing expedition versus the serious requests to discuss a specific stone. After you have responded to a few dozen such requests with rarely a response from the sender to even acknowledge the respons you tend to delete such letters with a glance. Even a small office like mine can receive more than 100 emails per day, so we quickly learn to prioritize where we spend our time.

Wink

 

[SquareCut]

ForteKitty- good work saving that lady from losing a $10,000 ring!! There should be more people like you but how did you know it was a scam? What should one look for?

 

[ForteKitty]

Take a look at this: eBay

 

[ForteKitty]

"Questions from other buyers for this listing
Q: Dear E-Bay Seller, I am very interested in your item.Does it have some visible wear signs?Do you have a bottom line price in mind? As the shipping carrier i prefer Fedex because I have made many transactions using their services and I am very comfortable with the results. I would like to use a third party escrow service that will handle our deal in a professional manner. Could you please let me know the final shipping price to Spain If required i will place a bid because i don`t want to abide from Ebay regulations. I am looking forward to hear from you and I hope that both our interests will be highly satisfied. Thanks in advance
Apr-06-05
A: paypal is the 3rd Party escrow service I use,or I have a escrow account at my law firm we could use. "

"Q: I''m very interested in this fabulous piece, could you please charge my MasterCard directly for US$8,000.00 (including shipping) and ship this item via USPS Global Express/EMS to Indonesia? PayPal is not registered here and I can''t use that service, regards
Apr-05-05
A: Certified check and western union "

 

[DiamondExpert]

jennalyns - I''m afraid that it''s true that 99% of vendors would automatically delete any foreign email which asks those two critical questions - do you accept cc and to you ship internationally - and if they have a generic email address from outside N. America and if they are not specific about a particular item.

We NEVER respond to such emails UNLESS we know something else about the person involved and NEVER accept foreign CC unless there is much more info about who we are dealing with AND not until after they complete our CC Authorization and Verification application. We are totally at risk for any CC transaction.

That may sound harsh, but a LOT of bad folks out there have made life more difficult/expensive for us all, and taking risks with big ticket items is NOT prudent!

CC are a particular problem for retailers because not only to we get charged exorbitant fees for the public''s use of their card, we are the only party involved in the transaction who bears the full liability for that transaction...the public bears none, nor does the CC company.

It''s great/convenient being a CC user (just as long as you pay off you balance every month), but it''s not so great being on the retail side of a sale...I say this as a user and acceptor of all major credit cards, but I don''t have to like it - the larger the CC sale the less profitable it is!

 

[DiamondExpert]

Just another comment to cover other methods of payment.

Phony cashier''s (Bank) checks, International money orders, and dummy escrow accounts are also beginning to show up more frequently.

Finally, even wire transfers bear careful scrutiny and proper delay must be taken to make absolutely sure the bank has the genuine article. Banks can always, and will in an electronic instant, withdraw deposited $ from an account, if they have a problem of any sort, and this can occur with some delay in time (days).

Can''t be too careful...it pays (literally) to know who you are dealing with!

 

[jennalyns]

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe I''ve never had a problem because my credit card is from a US bank- I work for the military, so I do all my banking on base, through American banks. I understand the need for ya''ll to be careful, that''s why I tend to be pretty specific in my inquiries. I know a lot of companies (not just jewelry) don''t want to deal with shipping to military FPO boxes at all, because things can get lost/stolen. At least the internet makes it easier to find companies that will ship over here. It stinks that the scam artists are making it hard for regular people to buy stuff, and making the vendors have a hard time being able to trust their customers.

I always thought the CC company refunded your money if the card was stolen and used; are the retailers actually held liable for the lost money?? That wouldn''t be good...

 

[DiamondExpert]

A thief''s purpose is to use any stolen or counterfeit form of payment and to make the retailer believe that they are actually going to get paid, and in many cases ensure that they get paid, if only briefly enough for the goods to be shipped...then they have accomplished their purpose and the retailer is out the merchandise when the theft is discovered and the payment withdrawn by the CC Co.

In fact, even with CC''s which are legit, a dishonest person who actually owns that card can call the CC Co. and say they didn''t receive the goods, and if the retailer doesn''t have a complete record of the individual''s info and documentation, etc., the CC Co. will always back up the customer, withdraw the payment and the retailer is not only out the merchandise, but in trouble with the CC Co.

One final reason why CC are a pain to deal with from a retailer''s perspective. Sometimes (not always) when a retailer charges someone''s card and then they have to credit it back some time later because of a return following a return guaranteed examination period, the full amount is credited back to the customer, but the CC Co. keeps their fee, so that comes out of the retailer''s pocket.

Oh ya, one final, final thing...when a CC Co. offers a cardholder new incentives, like cash back, etc., guess who pays for that - the retailer in higher CC usage fees.

So, the CC holder has no risk/liability, the retailer takes all the risks and pays all the costs of the operation (and much more), and the CC Co.''s make all the $.

 

[RockDoc]

Credit card that are used internationally in other countries can be easily stopped. This is particularly true if the merchant doesn''t have a signature made by the buyer in person.

It not a big issue if the sale is small, but in the case of internet diamonds where the mark up is competitive and minimal, and the selling price is high, one mistake can wipe out the profits on 20-30 sales of the equal price.

It another story if the sale is for a small amount.

An American using a credit card from an American bank is different from a foreigner..

Rockdoc

 

[fire&ice]

Another scam - you bid on an item on ebay - it doesn''t reach reserve - the "seller" emails you and lets you have the item for your bid (though you weren''t high bidder). All fine and good - even uses ebay supposed "second chance offer". Then the red flags went up. Won''t accept paypal - only bank transfers. And, makes a comment that the high bidder couldn''t pay for two weeks (until their next pay check). Well, this sealed it for me as I *know* the high bidder - they *certainly* didn''t have to wait for the next pay check. The second chance offer email address was a yahoo address. I emailed Ebay - and this site is *not* an ebay site. I never pursued the purchase after that.

One can not be too careful.