(Immidiate Accurate Answer Needed) Abt White Gold/Palladium

[whitegoldy]

Hello, I have quite a number of suppliers who could supply relatively cheap supply of Palladium to make white gold. The problem is that I have searched every where to find the percentage, combination and required heat to make White Gold, but no place can really tell me and teach me clearly to make white gold. I am sure it is not as simple as combining pure gold, palladium, zinc, copper, and silver altogether and melt them together.

A friend of mine could combine the pure gold, palladium and a few other alloys to make 60 - 65% of gold in that white gold. Therefore I assume 35% others are the alloy plus the palladium he uses to make that white gold. Please advise me as to how to make a good white gold so that it could be good enough for me to give it to the tool person to make jewelries. Thank you very much.

 

[denverappraiser]

Precious Metals West sells palladium white gold alloys. I kind of doubt that they will give you their trade secrets but the recipies are pretty public. They may be interested in becoming a customer for inexpensive palladium.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

http://www.jewellerycatalogue.co.uk/gold/gold_alloys.php

 

[strmrdr]

http://www.gold.org/jewellery/technology/alloys/

google is your friend.
http://www.google.com/

 

[whitegoldy]

I googled and found the exact websites you gave on your 2 postings. But I am still not too sure the percentage, and all that... am I supposed to mix the zinc, copper, etc all at once together with the pure gold and mix them together, OR I can just easily mix an alloy with palladium and pure gold to make white gold?

 

[whitegoldy]

Feydekin, I really appreciate your answer. I am really new to this white gold business, I just have a good source to buy palladium. I really need to buy all the materials to make white gold, the alloys, and the ways to making white gold. I hope you and other people in this kind community could help me....

 

[whitegoldy]

Feydakin I am planning to make the white gold for both issues you mentioned. for personal use and to sell the white gold to jewelry stores that could make white gold into jewelry that people could use. Do you think you could tell me a website / something for a beginer to begin with like a "walkthough" or rather a step by step information on materials and equiptment needed, alloy, percentage and anything else needed to make white gold?

 

[whitegoldy]

hello, are you saying that buy just buying the alloy I can just mix the three together to make white gold? The alloy can be obtained from Stuller and Rio (you mentioned these companies) cos as of now, i only have supply to palladium and gold. If I can obtain the alloy to make white gold by just combining the three together it would be great.

 

[whitegoldy]

Feydakin, I am sorry to ask you too many questions. Are you saying that it would be as simple as buying the ingredients from big companies and then melt the ingredients plus the palladium together to get white gold?

Because from what you told me, it looks like there are a lot of companies that would supply buyers with the right pre-mixed ingredients to make white gold, in which the pre-mixed ingredients are their trade secret. Do you think you could supply me with the companies / suppliers names and websites that would provide me with the premixed ingredients?

The real question would be how much of the premixed ingredients alloy should I mix with the pure gold to make specific percentage white gold?

Thank you very much.

 

[denverappraiser]

Most commercial alloys contain all of the indgients other than the gold. Thiw will include the palladium. The jeweler will buy an assortment of them, mix the chosen one with 24k to produce the metal they want to work with. There are some major companies in this business and their exact recipies and procedures are all a little different and are closely held secrets. If you are buying palladium for noticably less than the Kitco market price, consider selling to one of the refiining companies. I''m sure they would love to hear from you and they will probably make it pretty easy to do business with them, especially if you have a substantial quantity. If you are paying equal to or more than the market price, you are emarking on a very difficult way to make money but it may be good fun for your own projects.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appriasals in Denver

 

[whitegoldy]

So are you saying that it would be less likely for me to mix the three together myself? (I mean mixing palladium, pure gold and the pre-mixed ingredients bought from big companies as the premixed ingredients already has the right percentage of palladium in it)

Can I just buy the premixed ingredients seperated from the palladium so that i can mix my own palladium, pure gold and the premixed ingredients bought from stuller myself?

Also, do you think I need special tools to handle melting white gold, and making them? Thanks

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes, you can get into this business. There are quite a few variables beyond the mix of metals that are likely to cause you trouble. The amount of oxygen and other gases in the atmosphere during the melt for example. The exact temerature and mixing methods will aso be important. The labor component for alloys is about $3-$5/oz. If you make enough of it, there is definitely money to be made here but you need to be working in multi-kilo batches and you will need to develop a loyal customer base who will keep on reordering from you. If you buy a premixed product for the non-palladium ingredients, you will be giving up most of your profit to the company that makes it.

There''s more to this story than you''re letting on. If you can buy palladium cheaply, why not just sell it? If you can''t buy cheaply, why are you even considering this approach?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[whitegoldy]

denverappraiser, I understand that if I buy the premixed ingredients from these companies, of course I could very well not be in the business because
1. the cheap supply of palladium I can obtain would be useless
2. mixing the 2 together, gold and premixed ingredients alloy that i can buy means that I would give up most of the profit to the companies that makes the premixed alloy

denverappraiser, Precious Metals West sells the dvd on how to make white gold... but I emailed them through the email address they posted on the website but till now, I still did not get any answer from them. Do you happen to have the dvd that you could may be sell it to me?

Feydakin, from the 2 websites you gave me above, making white gold is by mixing certain percentage of zinc, copper, gold, palladium, etc.... do you think it would be naive / stupid of me to just get these metals seperately, melt them together and mix the zinc, copper, nickel, etc together with Palladium and gold?
Because again, if I buy the palladium white gold alloy from big companies, then I would not be using the cheap supply of palladium I could get.

Is there a website / guide book that would teach me step by step to make white gold? I am willing to spend a little bit of money just to get my feet wet in this business.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Can I answer for Steve?

It is hard to demonstrate in words but there are a lot of differences between white gold alloys. Palladium is probably the hardest one to get right.

The best alloys (for some purposes), use platinum as well.

Professionals with years of experience spend years on their alloys and their alloying procedures to get just the right mix for a given application.

These applications might be: casting, settings and the like. The prices are different, the amount of any given material always changes, some look greying, some are very white.

I am not saying it is a bad idea, but expect to spend a lot of money perfecting the alloys to meet your customers needs. Note a failure with 18k gold would expose you to a pretty hefty refining charge, especially in small quantities.

This page might be of some use, if your still interested.

Metallurgy is fascinating. I wish you every success.

Phillip

 

[whitegoldy]

Can I use the same "equiptment" (melting bowls, tolls, etc) that I use to melt pure gold to use it to make white gold? or I need a special tools to handle white gold?

Feydakin, from the 2 websites you gave me above, making white gold is by mixing certain percentage of zinc, copper, gold, palladium, etc.... do you think it would be naive / stupid of me to just get these metals seperately, melt them together and mix the zinc, copper, nickel, etc together with Palladium and gold?
Because again, if I buy the palladium white gold alloy from big companies, then I would not be using the cheap supply of palladium I could get.

Feydakin, I am not too sure where you located, but I will let you know tomorrow''s Pd price in my place and compare it with yours to see whether or not mine is cheaper with the market price.

 

[whitegoldy]

Feydakin,
Feydakin, from the 2 websites you gave me above, making white gold is by mixing certain percentage of zinc, copper, gold, palladium, etc (the precentage and the metals needed already given).... do you think it would be naive / stupid of me to just get these metals seperately, melt them together and mix the zinc, copper, nickel, etc together with Palladium and gold?

 

[whitegoldy]

Personally, Feydakin, have you ever tried to make white gold yourself? was it successful?

About the price, I can get 1 gram of Pd for $6.00 US. Is that cheap or just the normal price? I mean if it is cheap then I can just mix the Pd with all other ingredients myself to make white gold alloy instead of buying from the premixed one from big companies.

 

[whitegoldy]

hmm... it looks like I would have to find another source on how to actually make white gold. If i can know how to make white gold, it would still be profitable for me to sell it as there are not many people who wants to buy Pd here as they do not know how to process the Pd.

 

[denverappraiser]

In my neighborhood, here is the best place to learn metalurgy. There may be other schools that are closer to home that can help you out.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[whitegoldy]

OK I have now given up searching what is the right mix of white gold alloy. I would prefer getting white gold alloy than just mixing each components myself. my question is:
do you guys know about white gold alloy from a German company called Heraous? They sell 2 kinds of white gold alloy. 1.alloy that you just mix with gold and 2. an alloy that you NEED to mix palladium and gold yourself.

I have tried both alloys but I am suprised that how come I did not get the white color that I wanted? the result is that I have a yellowish white gold instead of really white color white gold. Anyone could advise me on how to mix the Gold, Palladium and the Heraous alloy percentage? Thanks

 

[whitegoldy]

I mean not heraous but it is HERAEUS. and this time I am talking about the pre-made alloys that Heraeus is selling (Master alloys for making wite gold just like what they call it)

 

[whitegoldy]

Are you using HERAEUS premixed palladium white alloy?

I am trying to mix the HERAEUS premixed white alloy + gold + palladium to make it 14 and 18K white gold. You have any idea on how to make it whiter? (mine is kinda yellowish)

I understand that I need to grind, polish it to make it shiny before I sell it... and I need to rhodium plate it when I make it into white gold jewelry. Do you know how to grind, and polish the white gold material after I mix it?