Illegal takes refuge in Chicago Church

[YMA]

This was on the news & radio in Chicago today b/c the lady is holding a press conference after being holded up in Church for a year to avoid deportation.

From what I can gather this is the jist of the story.

A lady came here illegally from Mexico and was caught working at O'Hare airport with a stolen ID.
Immigration deported her in 1997, she came back had a child but was caught once again working at O'Hare Airport again with a stolen ID and to avoid be deported again now has taken refuge in a Church where she's been for about 1 year.

She is saying that she shouldn't be deported now b/c she has a American born child,


Any thoughts or opinions about this touchy subject. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but sorry in advance if it does.

 

[elle_chris]

It is a touchy subject and I can see both sides so I won''t take a position. I do however believe we need to reform our immigration laws as I don''t believe they''re helping this country or the people that should be here legally.

 

[YMA]

I realize it is a very touchy subject, I was wondering how people felt about this.

We were talking about today at work, and everyone had strong opinions about it.

 

[Stone Hunter]

Yes I think we all have strong feelings on this topic. We need to figure out a workable solution that will be fair to American Citizens and not degrade the people who want to come here. Very hard to find a solution.

 

[monarch64]

I followed the story here last year when she first took refuge in the church...I haven''t read anything recently so I really shouldn''t comment on what my opinion is. Basically, (and very generally) I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere, but that is obviously a difficult thing to do in this case.

 

[Sparkster]

I am an Australian born child of migrant chinese parents. They came from peasant villages in China where the conditions back then were third world. I visted my parents'' villages in 1990 and ever since then, I understood why my parents came to Australia (they were lucky enough to be sponsored). I look at the life my parents have/had in Australia (my father passed away a long time ago) compared to the life my relatives have in China.

I do understand why some people would go to such extreme lengths to better their lives (in their opinion) by illegally entering another country. Desperation is an awful thing.

 

[YMA]

The issue I have with this lady is she was here once got caught with a stolen ID which is a crime, got sent back then came back and got caught again with the same issue and now doesn't want to suffer the consequences of her illegal actions b/c she has a American born kid.

IMO fair is fair, right is right, and wrong is wrong and it's very clear cut in this case.

What are we going to say to the next person that does the same thing.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 8/16/2007 6:59:00 PM
Author: YMA
The issue I have with this lady is she was here once got caught with a stolen ID which is a crime, got sent back then came back and got caught again with the same issue and now doesn''t want to suffer the consequences of her illegal actions b/c she has a American born kid.

IMO fair is fair, right is right, and wrong is wrong and it''s very clear cut in this case.

What are we going to say to the next person that does the same thing.

And what are you going to do with the child who is an american citizen? I don''t believe it''s so clear cut.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/16/2007 7:09:55 PM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 8/16/2007 6:59:00 PM
Author: YMA
The issue I have with this lady is she was here once got caught with a stolen ID which is a crime, got sent back then came back and got caught again with the same issue and now doesn't want to suffer the consequences of her illegal actions b/c she has a American born kid.

IMO fair is fair, right is right, and wrong is wrong and it's very clear cut in this case.

What are we going to say to the next person that does the same thing.

And what are you going to do with the child who is an american citizen? I don't believe it's so clear cut.

I so agree!!! I honestly don't have a strong opinion either way on this whole topic and sort of think the whole topic is a bad idea,

but that statement I highlighted sticks out for me in this particular case.

 

[YMA]

Date: 8/16/2007 7:09:55 PM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 8/16/2007 6:59:00 PM
Author: YMA
The issue I have with this lady is she was here once got caught with a stolen ID which is a crime, got sent back then came back and got caught again with the same issue and now doesn't want to suffer the consequences of her illegal actions b/c she has a American born kid.

IMO fair is fair, right is right, and wrong is wrong and it's very clear cut in this case.

What are we going to say to the next person that does the same thing.

And what are you going to do with the child who is an american citizen? I don't believe it's so clear cut.

Elle, don't you think she should have thought about this before having that child and where is the father of that child? She knew she was doing something illegal before she had that child. What happens to the American Children of American women that commit crimes and go to jail IMO it's basically the same thing, they don't make consessions for them and they shouldn't for her either.

 

[YMA]

I justed wanted to get a range of opinions on this issue, it wan't intended to offend, hurt or disrepect anyone.


We talk about everything else here at pricescope I thought we could talk about this too.

 

[dtnyc]

Something to remember is that the USA was founded by immigrants and aliens to this land, who were seeking protection, freedom and a better life. The majority of the USA is made up of the descendants of these European immigrants and aliens.
I don''t know all that many Native Americans.

This country was founded on immigration and until we stop w/ other philosophies/policies that we started at our founding (Manifest Destiny and being the world''s police force) I think we should re-think our immigration laws.

 

[YMA]

I agree with that sentiment and statement, but she committed a crime and I think that is the most important issue.

 

[dtnyc]

There are criminals in Senate, Congress and the White House- committing a crime is the American Way!

Also she was not the only participant in the crime what about the company that hired her? Should they not be punished as well?

Wal-Mart hires TONS of illegal immigrants, I take it you don''t shop there.

 

[chiefneil]

I have a sister-in-law who went to school in California on a student visa. She wasn''t able to find an employer to sponsor her H1B Visa, so when her time ran out she went back home. She would have stayed if she could have. Now she has a child and they come to spend a couple months with us in the summer each year so the child can learn English with an eye towards her eventually going to school in the US. Even so, the child wasn''t born in the US so will likely follow the same course as her mother. If my SIL had broken the law and had the child here, the kid would be a US citizen instead.

I can tell you that I have a lot of sympathy for my SIL who followed the rules, and none for the woman in the church.

 

[Haven]

I wasn't going to reply to this politically-infused topic, but I couldn't resist. Please don't take any of this as offensive, remember--I'm merely giving my own personal response to the question.

To speak generally on this issue (and not directly at the original poster, mind you):
I think it is very easy for those of us who were born here (and therefore did not have to apply or fight for citizenship) and are relatively privileged to say that "others" shouldn't be allowed in "our" country, and to take a high moral stand on the way these "others" should be held accountable when they are forced to choose between horrible living conditions in their native country, and breaking laws while fighting for a better life for their children.

Now, I do not believe that it is right for people to break the law, nor do I think that these actions should be met without consequence. However, I do believe that this woman's precarious situation is merely a symptom of the larger problem that we have in the U.S., which stems from poor immigration laws and a lack of practical, forward-moving reform. Not to mention horrible leadership, but that's another topic.

I know it is tempting to characterize people in situations like this woman's as criminal, but the bottom line is that these are individuals who are merely trying to make a better life for themselves. I would do the same thing had I been born in an impoverished country that bordered a gluttonous, self-indulgent nation like the U.S.--I'd try very hard to get a little piece of the narcissism pie, too.

This woman is the product of an unjust, impoverished, corrupt world--why the heck wouldn't she try to create a better situation for herself?

(Does this discussion feel at all ironic to anyone else, considering we're on a DIAMOND forum? Or am I the only one?)

ETA: And no, I don't think the most important issue here is that she broke the law. The most important issue here is that we have people who are so unhappy in their native countries that they are willing to break the law to come into the U.S.

Ooh, and shameless reading plug: read anything by Derrick Jensen, you'll learn a lot about what is fair and just in the U.S., if you're not deep into the political ethos of our country, it will be very mind-opening.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 8/16/2007 8:39:33 PM
Author: Haven
I wasn''t going to reply to this politically-infused topic, but I couldn''t resist. Please don''t take any of this as offensive, remember--I''m merely giving my own personal response to the question.

To speak generally on this issue (and not directly at the original poster, mind you):
I think it is very easy for those of us who were born here (and therefore did not have to apply or fight for citizenship) and are relatively privileged to say that ''others'' shouldn''t be allowed in ''our'' country, and to take a high moral stand on the way these ''others'' should be held accountable when they are forced to choose between horrible living conditions in their native country, and breaking laws while fighting for a better life for their children.

Now, I do not believe that it is right for people to break the law, nor do I think that these actions should be met without consequence. However, I do believe that this woman''s precarious situation is merely a symptom of the larger problem that we have in the U.S., which stems from poor immigration laws and a lack of practical, forward-moving reform. Not to mention horrible leadership, but that''s another topic.

I know it is tempting to characterize people in situations like this woman''s as criminal, but the bottom line is that these are individuals who are merely trying to make a better life for themselves. I would do the same thing had I been born in an impoverished country that bordered a gluttonous, self-indulgent nation like the U.S.--I''d try very hard to get a little piece of the narcissism pie, too.

This woman is the product of an unjust, impoverished, corrupt world--why the heck wouldn''t she try to create a better situation for herself?

(Does this discussion feel at all ironic to anyone else, considering we''re on a DIAMOND forum? Or am I the only one?)

ETA: And no, I don''t think the most important issue here is that she broke the law. The most important issue here is that we have people who are so unhappy in their native countries that they are willing to break the law to come into the U.S.

Ooh, and shameless reading plug: read anything by Derrick Jensen, you''ll learn a lot about what is fair and just in the U.S., if you''re not deep into the political ethos of our country, it will be very mind-opening.

Thank you for saying everyting I thought but couldn''t put into words as eloquently as you.

 

[Sparkster]

Date: 8/16/2007 8:39:33 PM
Author: Haven
I wasn''t going to reply to this politically-infused topic, but I couldn''t resist. Please don''t take any of this as offensive, remember--I''m merely giving my own personal response to the question.

To speak generally on this issue (and not directly at the original poster, mind you):
I think it is very easy for those of us who were born here (and therefore did not have to apply or fight for citizenship) and are relatively privileged to say that ''others'' shouldn''t be allowed in ''our'' country, and to take a high moral stand on the way these ''others'' should be held accountable when they are forced to choose between horrible living conditions in their native country, and breaking laws while fighting for a better life for their children.

Now, I do not believe that it is right for people to break the law, nor do I think that these actions should be met without consequence. However, I do believe that this woman''s precarious situation is merely a symptom of the larger problem that we have in the U.S., which stems from poor immigration laws and a lack of practical, forward-moving reform. Not to mention horrible leadership, but that''s another topic.

I know it is tempting to characterize people in situations like this woman''s as criminal, but the bottom line is that these are individuals who are merely trying to make a better life for themselves. I would do the same thing had I been born in an impoverished country that bordered a gluttonous, self-indulgent nation like the U.S.--I''d try very hard to get a little piece of the narcissism pie, too.

This woman is the product of an unjust, impoverished, corrupt world--why the heck wouldn''t she try to create a better situation for herself?

(Does this discussion feel at all ironic to anyone else, considering we''re on a DIAMOND forum? Or am I the only one?)

ETA: And no, I don''t think the most important issue here is that she broke the law. The most important issue here is that we have people who are so unhappy in their native countries that they are willing to break the law to come into the U.S.

Ooh, and shameless reading plug: read anything by Derrick Jensen, you''ll learn a lot about what is fair and just in the U.S., if you''re not deep into the political ethos of our country, it will be very mind-opening.

Well said. I don''t think many in the so called "lucky" countries realise how good they have it. I didn''t realise how fortunate I was to live in Australia until I visited my relatives in China.

It''s easy for us to say, "who cares, she did something illegal, now she has to pay the price." If I was in her position, I might have done the same thing. Luckily, I''m not in her position. I live a very comfortable life in Australia and FI and I are considered to be "well off".

Yes, there are laws but it''s not always black and white. I don''t condone what she did, but I understand why she did it.

 

[luckystar112]

My (very) general view is this:

First and most importantly....immigration reform has been an issue LONNNGGGG before our current leader.

and second

Logically speaking, America isn''t the only country founded by immigrants--not that it matters in the least anyway. (Hate that argument.) We are, however, the only country with a revolving door. (Practically)

With that being said, I''m not one of those who is opposed to people from other countries coming here legally and for us to make it a tad easier for them to be here, but with stricter rules!

 

[strmrdr]

As someone who had his ss# stolen and has given up on it until I can hire a lawyer too sort it out....
10 years in jail no parole for id theft x2 then worry about the immigration situation in 20 years.
Then lock down the border with a shoot too kill policy and start kicken all the illegals out.
Then make legal immigration easier with no welfare or other social services available.

 

[Kaleigh]

My heart kinda breaks in these situations.

Did she break the law?? Yeah, but if I was in that position maybe I would have done the same thing. I can''t blame her for wanting a better life for herself and her baby. To me it''s not so black and white. Her baby is a US citizen, should we send them both back?? To me that would be wrong.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/16/2007 9:13:43 PM
Author: Kaleigh
My heart kinda breaks in these situations.

Did she break the law?? Yeah, but if I was in that position maybe I would have done the same thing. I can't blame her for wanting a better life for herself and her baby. To me it's not so black and white. Her baby is a US citizen, should we send them both back?? To me that would be wrong.

yes she did break the law 2 counts id theft on top of immigration laws broken.
If it wasn't for the id theft I might have some compassion but she is a thief and a crook and we have enough of them in congress don't need any more.
The real victims are the people from who she stole their ss# and id.

 

[luckystar112]

Nevermind.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 8/16/2007 9:17:45 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/16/2007 9:13:43 PM
Author: Kaleigh
My heart kinda breaks in these situations.

Did she break the law?? Yeah, but if I was in that position maybe I would have done the same thing. I can't blame her for wanting a better life for herself and her baby. To me it's not so black and white. Her baby is a US citizen, should we send them both back?? To me that would be wrong.

yes she did break the law 2 counts id theft on top of immigration laws broken.
If it wasn't for the id theft I might have some compassion but she is a thief and a crook and we have enough of them in congress don't need any more.
The real victims are the people from who she stole their ss# and id.

I see your point. And agree. It's still a hard situation. And don't condone what she did, but have empathy for her is all. Ok, enough from a softie like me.... I get ya Storm,

 

[partgypsy]

I guess I am one of those in the camp that has ambivelant views about the subject. When I hear about privately organized militias guarding the border, feel that is over the line. Hearing this story doesn''t surprise me or make me feel outraged.
At the same time my father came into this country legally, by applying and waiting 6 years for a green card in a country in civil war (Greece). While waiting those years getting drafted into the Greek army. By the time his green card came he was 28 years old, knew no English but decided to go for it anyways. After arriving in the U.S. getting drafted and serving in the American Army (before he was a citizen!). Only after that was he able to get a chance to become an American citizen. And yes he is one of the lucky ones because many people who applied for visas did not get them. Working in the research/academic field I know many stories of people who are highly educated, have jobs waiting for them or are working in the US, but cannot get the necessary paperwork to become U.S citizens because of the long line and beauracracy in front of them. So I have a little less sympathy for those who break the rules and then by proxy cut in line before those who apply legally to come here.
I understand the plight of people who want to be in the U.S, but if everyone broke the rules to come here, our country would cease to exist as we know it.

 

[Haven]

Just to clarify--I never said our current leader was the cause of these problems, I said "poor leadership" and I meant the leadership on many levels, not just the presidency.

I also had my ID stolen and several thousands of dollars charged to credit cards I never knew "I" had. The thief: a middle-aged white woman whose family has probably been here for many generations longer than my own. Luckily, I don''t rely on credit anyway and the matter was resolved without my credit scores taking a hit and with little cost. Storm--I wish you a quick recovery from this awful crime, it really can take a toll, and I feel for you.

I agree with you, Lucky--we do need different immigration rules, as our current policies are (obviously) failing.

This was a hot topic back when I was in law school, and we engaged in many debates then. I think this discourse is an important one, but even as I''m writing these responses it just seems so silly to have it on THIS forum. Interesting, but a bit silly. I would caution anyone from drawing opinions on this matter unless they are wholly informed, as this is exactly the type of issue that breeds prejudice and racism when people swallow the ideas spoonfed to them by mass media and idle water cooler talk (and random forum discussion!).

I''ve enjoyed reading everyone''s responses, and I am now going to respectfully bow out of the conversation.

 

[partgypsy]

I guess I also want to say that I don''t want what I said to be a lightning rod of anger towards this women, or illegals in general. I think there needs to be reform, but I myself, don''t know what exactly needs to be done to fix it.
Just building more prisons gets pretty expensive after awhile.

 

[crystalheart1]

I feel sorry for that baby. Not a great way to start out in life.. and what kind of Mother would bring a child into that situation . I know it sounds harsh, but would we have this sympathy for a women who was born in the US and using fake ID. How was this women planning on caring for the baby.
Couples who are married know it is a big step and plan accordingly for it. I know it is impossible in other countries, but that is not the way to handle this,
by breaking the law... twice. Abusing the church as well

 

[YMA]

Cyrstalheart, I totally agree with you............ what about the American born moms who commit crimes and go to prision....what special steps or consessions do we take with their children.

I feel this lady is using and laughing at the US government & church. Not all illegals just this lady.

Yesterday's front page of the Chicago Sun-times is a picture of her and the caption says "catch me if you can".

I am not against immigration, but I also stand for doing it the right way and like someone else said not cutting in line ahead of people trying to come to American legally.

This lady claimed she want to be American but since she's been here she hasn't learned English, so how bad do you really want to be American.

As far as talking about it on this "Diamond forum", we all have opinions on everything else I thought we could have a opinion on this subject too. I've read all the good sound advice given by the people here and just wanted to start a discussion. I've read money issues topics, abuse topics, how to handle family issues so I didn't think this topic was way off.

Not to offend anyone, hurt anyone, disrepect anyone. Again I repeat.

 

[chiefneil]

Date: 8/17/2007 10:15:53 AM
Author: crystalheart1
I feel sorry for that baby. Not a great way to start out in life.. and what kind of Mother would bring a child into that situation . I know it sounds harsh, but would we have this sympathy for a women who was born in the US and using fake ID. How was this women planning on caring for the baby.

Couples who are married know it is a big step and plan accordingly for it. I know it is impossible in other countries, but that is not the way to handle this,

by breaking the law... twice. Abusing the church as well

It''s actually fairly common for illegals who are pregnant to come to the US specifically to have the baby. They know that hospitals by law must take them, so they get free delivery care (well, paid by taxpayers or others as hospitals go bankrupt which is happening in many border cities). And they know that any baby born on US soil is automatically a citizen. It''s problematic that illegal behavior is rewarded, as it just encourages more of the same.