If you have the option of being a stay at home mom, would you?

[leeenie]

I find it interesting and funny that one of the arguments being advanced against mothers who choose to work is that they do so in pursuit of material goods (Lexuses and European vacations), because this is a diamond forum. What is a diamond but the ultimate material good and luxury? It primarily gives enjoyment to the wearer (arguable the only value), while international trips can be valuable educational eye-opening experiences for children and plenty of other spending opportunities can benefit the entire family. We all know diamonds aren''t cheap, and that money invested for 18 years would pay for a healthy part of a kid''s education. Just an observation.

 

[MINE!!]

I stayed at home with my first daughter till she was 5. My youngest was 2. I had to return to work b/c I was now a single mom. I worked 40 hours a week, busted my tail, had a high paying, highly respected position in the furniture industry. Was well know in my field and then... I quit. I just quit... My youngest daughter was now almost 5. There is not a day that goes by that I do not regret the years I wasted working. I will NEVER be able to retrieve those years that I lost with my daughters.. never.. and they go by soo quickly. I took a drastic step.. quit my job, went back to school and lived off of student loans. Lived off of NOTHING basically... But I was home when my kids were sick. I knew if they needed me. I picked them up from school everyday. I cooked them dinner. Got involved in their soccer programs. Never have missed a school play, ballet recital or soccer scrimmage (and have made it to almost all the games). I am there to open up a can of whoop a$$ at school when a sub crosses the line and I am able to nip things in the bud when my littlest is having a difficult time with her readingl. I am a 30 year old hottie of a mom who shock people when I say that I have a 7 and 10 year old. I take very good care of myself. I had to decide personally where my priorities lie. DID they lie with being respected and admired by my peers or being there and respected by my children.. the scale for me came crashing down on the side of my daughters.

Do I have an identity outside of my children.. LOL... you tell me. I am opinionated, smart mouthed and feel strongly about things. I do what I want and when I want within what are MY priorities. I make my own rules.. period. I have just decided that everything that I do and the decisions that I make and the MY rules that I follow are going to include MY children.

When I got married last summer my children sat down and talked to me about it. My oldest was afraid that I was not going to be there for her when she needed me anymore. She said that she was worried that I was going to go back to work and that I would miss her soccer games and my youngest started to cry cause she wanted to know if I would have time to make her class cupcakes and whether or not we were going to have to skip cuddle time at night before bed. I brought them into this world and took the responsibility to raise them. It is the greatest treasure I could ever have hoped to have.

Before I had children I had decided that I was going to work. The day I had my children I decided that I wanted to be a mother. That the completeness that I had with my children could never be the same as a trip to Hawaii ro driving a Lexus. I AM PROUD that I am a stay at home mom. I will be completeing college in about 3 months. I have the fortune that I now do not have to work. We plan to try to have another baby in the fall. I will see that child smile for the first time, hear his first giggle, watch his first steps and cry the first time he steps into hos kindergarten classroom. but most of all I will know that I was there for him and for my daughters and that makes me complete. SO I love being a mom.. a STAY at home mom. I love being here. I LOVE my job. IT is all I want. AND I DO BELIEVE what I say. I have for the past 10 years. Of all the regrets that I have it is never that I was not able to define my life by the title of the working worlds occupation, but that I cannot go back and recapture the time I feel I wasted on working and my pride is that I am defined by the occupation that I chose with my heart and that is to never miss a moment that I have with my children.

It is a personal decision. I agree about the working to pay someone else ideal.. (working only to pay child care). That is defintely a factor. But I think making a decision to stay at home and raise your children is a heart decision.

As for whether I feel this has set mothers back.. LOL.. I have to laugh. PLEEEEAAASSSEEEE. I stay at home because I CHOOSE to do so. Not because society says so.. (BTW.... Feminism is a bad word to me too..... and I have had the mis experience of hearing from people that think I am being oppressed because I have to stay at home with the children... all in the name of feminism... it is disgusting to me.)

My mother was a W(B)itch who only cared about the bottle she was tipping... and it wasn''t milk. She blamed me for having to stay home. She loudly annouced when I was 9 that she refused to stay home and raise children when she was too smart for that. She want back to school, got her degree and chose to work. No one was ever there when I had school musicals, no one came to see me run track, no one checked my homework, helped me with reports or made me dinner at night. No held me when my first boyfriend dumped me or told me that everything would be alright when I threw up in class at the age of 10. No one asked me how I felt, what I beleived in or what I dreamed about. My daughter is 10. I went back to school and decided that she was more important than new things. I know her dreams, I know her beliefs, I have held her when she thought the world was over, I am able to tell her that I love her 100 million times a day. I chose her, both of them, and that is what they are going to remember and that is going to bring the inspiration and confidence to help them do and be anything they want.

They are my gift and my gift to this world is the two amazing confident women that they will become.

So, there is my choice. We have a choice. You have to do what your heart tells you.

 

[MINE!!]

BTW... Cool... that last post of was my 2000th.. how poetic..

 

[qtiekiki]

It took me awhile to read all the posts, but it''s very interesting. I personally haven''t noticed a trend of increase in stay at home mom within my community, as my sisters in law are both working (my MIL babysits for one, and the other has a babysitter because my MIL don''t want to/think she can take care of a baby and a toddler), my cousins in law went back to work, our friends all went back to work (except the baby of one couples was constantly getting sicked and the daycare kicked her out, and the mom had to quit her job). But that''s can just be the people around me.

It''s great to get the insights of the stay at home moms, and the article that teagreen posted about unhappy stay at home moms really got me thinking. It''s great to see both positive and negatives effects of staying at home moms. I never really associate feminism with staying at home mom because I figure it was a choice. Everyone''s posts brought up a lot of issues for me to think about.

 

[gingerBcookie]

Wow, what an interesting thread! I''ve thought about this issue many times and enjoyed reading through all these thoughts and opinions. Here''s a question though: why stay at home mom vs. stay at home dad?

is it because the husbands/dads are making more money?

what if the female was the one making the higher income?

is the decidion based on gender or based on finances?

why are the majority of the caretakers here still female?

is it gender roles or is it income?

the reason i ask is that i will be making ~3-5x my soon-to-be hubby''s income. children are very very important to us and if you were in our position, who would stay at home?

what would the decision be based on?

 

[rainbowtrout]

Ginger, if I were in your position, I would not stay home. I know several couples where the man stays home for just that reason or just because he is better with the children and it works out quite well.

I wish that would be the case with my DB...he will almost certainly make more than I shall, which is disappointing since I always hoped to have a "house dad" husband. He is so much better with kids than I am as well...

My mother and a lot of women I know still firmly believe that women somehow are better innate caretakers. Me, I haven''t seen enough evidence not to think it depends on the person. Most men would probably have to overcome some ego issues to do it, though.

 

[Kaleigh]

We had a family move here from CA. The dad stayed at home with the kids while the mom worked for a large Pharmaceutical company. He said around here he felt like a fish out of water. He didn''t have the support that he had in CA so they moved back.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Just to add---

I''ve really been stuggling with the possibility of staying home at least part time if we have children. Both of us want fairly high-work/stress level careers and I personally don''t think you can have your cake and eat it too (i.e., do a good job on both fronts with 2 full time high powered parents)

I never wanted it to turn out this way though. I never PLANNED to like cooking. I never planned to get married until I was 35-40. I never wanted to be the literature major who may or may not make tenure while everyone taps their toes (including the FMIL) and says "well your DH is going to be a doctor, why is it so important for you to get tenure, can''t you just be an assocate professor or work part time?" But I also never planned to look at him and NOT know how I could ever choose not to have children with him.

Feminism is NOT a dirty word to me. All over the world, women ARE still opressed. The fight isn''t over just becasue we gave women the vote in the 20s and the pill in the 60s. That''s just America.

While DB has been incredibly supportive so far with my career plans, I have had a lot of pressure from relatives, etc to choose one or the other, career or kids.

No one asked my boyfriend to choose.

In the end I don''t know what I will do in future years. I hope I make the right choice. My mother worked when I was younger, and then got a debilitating illness from when I was about 9-16. She was a "stay at home" mom, yeah. But I would have rather had her working and well. Was it nice to have her drop off homework if I forgot it, bring lunch, etc? Sure....but that isn''t what has mattered to me about her in the long run. You do what you can and you hope its enough, I guess.

 

[E B]

Date: 2/13/2006 11:57:41 AM
Author: teagreen
I find it interesting and funny that one of the arguments being advanced against mothers who choose to work is that they do so in pursuit of material goods (Lexuses and European vacations), because this is a diamond forum. What is a diamond but the ultimate material good and luxury? It primarily gives enjoyment to the wearer (arguable the only value), while international trips can be valuable educational eye-opening experiences for children and plenty of other spending opportunities can benefit the entire family. We all know diamonds aren't cheap, and that money invested for 18 years would pay for a healthy part of a kid's education. Just an observation.

You make an excellent point, teagreen, one I was thinking of as well. A 2ct diamond could easily be a child's complete college education, and like this discussion of either or, I (as well as you, and others) would rather put extra $ into a family trip or a vehicle than into an upgrade, if we're speaking of luxuries. The difference is, I wouldn't work just for luxuries, which is what I think the issue brought up is about. My mom didn't work for luxuries. My FI and I are pretty okay without many luxuries now, and I'm sure we'd be fine without luxuries come baby-making time.

If you do have the extra income, it's all a matter of what makes you happy. This changes if you have children. Their advancement and well-being should matter over luxury no matter what, IMO.

My fiance and I have decided that the day our first child is born, we'll take money out of each of our paychecks to put into a college fund. Not a "Harvard" college fund, mind you, but enough for a good state school education for each of them (2 or 3, we haven't decided yet). To me, that's more important than any luxury. But I assume people with children who have enough for substantial upgrades/luxuries have already done so.

 

[E B]

Rant, rant, rant. I can't even find my point in that mess.

I guess that what I meant to say was that I believe in staying home with your children over working for luxuries, if you indeed have the luxury of staying home. Oh, and college tuition is the most important thing to put money into, above any luxury IMO.

Short and sweet.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 2/12/2006 3:55:45 PM
Author: Momoftwo
Quality vs quantity does not mean the same thing to children as it does to adults (who feel quality time is more important). For kids, it''s all about quantity. They do not care what you do with them as long as you are there. They also really don''t care where they live or whether they have matching bedroom furniture or decorated rooms. I agree with diamondseeker, the majority of moms I''ve known over the years who worked did not do it to put food on the table, but to have the bigger house, newer car, better vacations, etc. Anyone who wants to be a full time mom can do it. I have several neighbors who are waiting for their husbands to open one more business or make that next rung so they can stay home. They hate leaving their children every day. The money in this house has also always been ours. I''m by no means totally dependent on my DH, but so what if I was. Why is that a bad thing? I trust him with my life, why not the material stuff too? I do not get my identity from work, nor did I get it solely from being someone''s wife and mother (although that''s a great identity to have). I get it from being me and I choose to put my children ahead of any job I might have while they were growing up. Now, it''s just DH and I and we are having our time and spending our money our way (including paying for our boys college). Its ''our'' time now. The funny thing is after most people get older and realize they''ll never be CEO or whatever, they tend to go with what''s best for the family and not just solely for themselves.


Also, moms who have high paying jobs also tend to have less free time since those types of jobs expect longer hours, etc. So, the moms who can ''afford'' daycare and still have money left over have less free time to spend with their families. Vicious cycle huh?

I realize you meant this as a generality, but it is a little bit offensive. I''m sorry, but not everyone has the money or the luxury to be a stay at home mother. My stepmother and my dad hardly have any of these "luxuries" other than cellphones or a trip once every ten years or so; they didn''t even go on a honeymoon. We haven''t repaired the carpet in the den that got ripped up by the dog two years ago, for heaven''s sake. We need the money from her extra income to put food on the table and clothes on the backs.

She wants to stay at home more than anything and she can''t. Upgrade diamonds? Trips? Hah. She had a 400 dollar engagement ring and didn''t get it repaired when the stone cracked. We''re not "poor" but we do need both incomes.

 

[leeenie]

Interesting questions gingerbcookie. Personally, I think there are social reasons for the prevalence of SAHMs over dads. The evidence is just too overwhelming to ignore and pretend that each instance is an "individual choice" of the particular woman.

As for the reason for the imbalance, in some cases it is finances - but in the last 20 years or so, I don''t think this is the only reason since women have been graduating from colleges/grad schools in equal numbers and have equal opportunities as men - including earning power starting out. Unfortunately since the imbalance of working women parents v. working men parents has nevertheless continued, the gender balance at top levels in many careers is still overwhelmingly in favor of men (for example, law firm associates are 50/50 M-F but female partners fewer than 5% of male partners; other examples are Congressmen, judges and president/exec branch - the people who RUN this country and effectively the world, business leaders, banking, etc...). I find it somewhat disturbing that many people seem to think that this is just the way it''s going to be and it''s ok to give our daughters the message that they won''t be able to achieve certain goals (e.g. anything but traditionally female careers, part-time work, or staying at home) without a major fight, since there doesn''t seem to be any progression in that direction. It has to start somewhere. It''s not about scary "feminazis" rioting for a cause. It''s about truly breaking the glass ceiling that is still there and recognizing the social forces that cause things to be the way they are. Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman''s place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary).

I''m not trying to tell anyone that their choice is a stupid one. I''m just disturbed that a lot of people make their ONE choice and champion it as the way to be without even recognizing 1) that there are plenty of considerations that play into the decision (besides "the Lexus"), 2) that there are social and historical reasons for the way things are - WHY is it that mothers have to be the ones that stay home, especially when financials are not the reason?, and 3) that there are real consequences to peoples'' choices. It''s not just about you, your husband, and your kids getting fresh cookies and an audience at soccer games - we all live in this society and what we do affects everyone, ultimately your kids, down the road.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM
Author: teagreen

Interesting questions gingerbcookie. Personally, I think there are social reasons for the prevalence of SAHMs over dads. The evidence is just too overwhelming to ignore and pretend that each instance is an ''individual choice'' of the particular woman.

As for the reason for the imbalance, in some cases it is finances - but in the last 20 years or so, I don''t think this is the only reason since women have been graduating from colleges/grad schools in equal numbers and have equal opportunities as men - including earning power starting out. Unfortunately since the imbalance of working women parents v. working men parents has nevertheless continued, the gender balance at top levels in many careers is still overwhelmingly in favor of men (for example, law firm associates are 50/50 M-F but female partners fewer than 5% of male partners; other examples are Congressmen, judges and president/exec branch - the people who RUN this country and effectively the world, business leaders, banking, etc...). I find it somewhat disturbing that many people seem to think that this is just the way it''s going to be and it''s ok to give our daughters the message that they won''t be able to achieve certain goals (e.g. anything but traditionally female careers, part-time work, or staying at home) without a major fight, since there doesn''t seem to be any progression in that direction. It has to start somewhere. It''s not about scary ''feminazis'' rioting for a cause. It''s about truly breaking the glass ceiling that is still there and recognizing the social forces that cause things to be the way they are. Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman''s place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary).

I''m not trying to tell anyone that their choice is a stupid one. I''m just disturbed that a lot of people make their ONE choice and champion it as the way to be without even recognizing 1) that there are plenty of considerations that play into the decision (besides ''the Lexus''), 2) that there are social and historical reasons for the way things are - WHY is it that mothers have to be the ones that stay home, especially when financials are not the reason?, and 3) that there are real consequences to peoples'' choices. It''s not just about you, your husband, and your kids getting fresh cookies and an audience at soccer games - we all live in this society and what we do affects everyone, ultimately your kids, down the road.

While I do agree that our choice effects a larger social reality, what sounds good in the classroom becomes hard to put into practice in reality. No one here at college that I know was enouraged to study hard so they would find a good man; it seems that high powered, smart people are attracted to each other--and then someone has to give something up. Becuase of the social realities in place it is usually the women. Men take a MUCH higher paycut if they attempt to work parttime or to leave early for games, etc. I''ve some studies on this if you are interested.

It''s great to make the idealistic choices if you can, but its hard to look at your children and say no, mommy can''t stay home because she has to change the social relality though her job as a [insert non-world changing job here]

OTOH, someone has got to change it or it will always stay the same. I find it hard to see a world where the people in power are 95 percent men and announce, "No, I''m not oppressed, I have a choice!" Right, as long as they give it to me.

 

[Momoftwo]

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:23 PM
Author: rainbowtrout

Date: 2/12/2006 3:55:45 PM
Author: Momoftwo
Quality vs quantity does not mean the same thing to children as it does to adults (who feel quality time is more important). For kids, it''s all about quantity. They do not care what you do with them as long as you are there. They also really don''t care where they live or whether they have matching bedroom furniture or decorated rooms. I agree with diamondseeker, the majority of moms I''ve known over the years who worked did not do it to put food on the table, but to have the bigger house, newer car, better vacations, etc. Anyone who wants to be a full time mom can do it. I have several neighbors who are waiting for their husbands to open one more business or make that next rung so they can stay home. They hate leaving their children every day. The money in this house has also always been ours. I''m by no means totally dependent on my DH, but so what if I was. Why is that a bad thing? I trust him with my life, why not the material stuff too? I do not get my identity from work, nor did I get it solely from being someone''s wife and mother (although that''s a great identity to have). I get it from being me and I choose to put my children ahead of any job I might have while they were growing up. Now, it''s just DH and I and we are having our time and spending our money our way (including paying for our boys college). Its ''our'' time now. The funny thing is after most people get older and realize they''ll never be CEO or whatever, they tend to go with what''s best for the family and not just solely for themselves.


Also, moms who have high paying jobs also tend to have less free time since those types of jobs expect longer hours, etc. So, the moms who can ''afford'' daycare and still have money left over have less free time to spend with their families. Vicious cycle huh?

I realize you meant this as a generality, but it is a little bit offensive. I''m sorry, but not everyone has the money or the luxury to be a stay at home mother. My stepmother and my dad hardly have any of these ''luxuries'' other than cellphones or a trip once every ten years or so; they didn''t even go on a honeymoon. We haven''t repaired the carpet in the den that got ripped up by the dog two years ago, for heaven''s sake. We need the money from her extra income to put food on the table and clothes on the backs.

She wants to stay at home more than anything and she can''t. Upgrade diamonds? Trips? Hah. She had a 400 dollar engagement ring and didn''t get it repaired when the stone cracked. We''re not ''poor'' but we do need both incomes.

I never said that everyone could do it, but that anyone who really wanted to (meaning had their spouses support) could if they were willing to give up some things. If you read my other posts youd'' see I said that. I said in my personal, my own experience, the moms I knew personally did not work because they needed to put food on the table. What I find offensive is those who have never had or made the choice because they don''t have children telling us that have done it that we''ve given up the "progress" women have made over the years. (This is not directed at you). Believe me, as you can tell, I do have my own opinions.

The fact is we did live pay check to pay check when my boys were small but I never ever regretted it and if you notice the moms on here are pretty much in agreement on that. We didn''t have the extra luxuries either, but you know what, kids really don''t care about all that stuff when they''re small. They learn it later on, but they really just want mom and dad there. Just because I dont'' say it "politically correct" doesn''t mean I''m saying any different than anyone else.

I never had upgrade anything (much less diamonds) until I was almost done raising my children, my first priority over stuff. Your statement above makes it sound like I had everything. We did not. We actually lived at a lower than average income for where we lived. We just lived more frugally and leveraged our way out of the townhouse when our boys were 9 and 11. As I mentioned earlier, we lived in townhouses, drove old cars and did not take big vacations. Now we have more. We call it delayed gratification.

 

[E B]

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM
Author: teagreen
Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman's place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary).

I find it scary too. As the only child of a single mother (and a wonderful father, I shouldn't make it seem as though he wasn't in my life), my parents always pushed for a good, solid education. "Never put yourself in the position where you depend solely on a man", my father used to say, and it's so incredibly true. It's important for women today to equip themselves with the knowledge and power to do whatever it is that they want to do and have the means to support themselves as needed. To finish college only to settle down and have children is personally very frightening to me. So you have the degree...where's the experience? Take the chance if you'd like, but I always found it important to have my own back. Men cheat, leave and die. No one's immune to that. I like to know that I'll be able to protect and provide for my future children no matter what.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 2/13/2006 6:04:48 PM
Author: Momoftwo

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:23 PM

Author: rainbowtrout

Date: 2/12/2006 3:55:45 PM

Author: Momoftwo

I never said that everyone could do it, but that anyone who really wanted to (meaning had their spouses support) could if they were willing to give up some things. If you read my other posts youd' see I said that. I said in my personal, my own experience, the moms I knew personally did not work because they needed to put food on the table. What I find offensive is those who have never had or made the choice because they don't have children telling us that have done it that we've given up the 'progress' women have made over the years. (This is not directed at you). Believe me, as you can tell, I do have my own opinions.


The fact is we did live pay check to pay check when my boys were small but I never ever regretted it and if you notice the moms on here are pretty much in agreement on that. We didn't have the extra luxuries either, but you know what, kids really don't care about all that stuff when they're small. They learn it later on, but they really just want mom and dad there. Just because I dont' say it 'politically correct' doesn't mean I'm saying any different than anyone else.


I never had upgrade anything (much less diamonds) until I was almost done raising my children, my first priority over stuff. Your statement above makes it sound like I had everything. We did not. We actually lived at a lower than average income for where we lived. We just lived more frugally and leveraged our way out of the townhouse when our boys were 9 and 11. As I mentioned earlier, we lived in townhouses, drove old cars and did not take big vacations. Now we have more. We call it delayed gratification.

I'm not seeing the differance between "everyone who wants to can be a stay at home mom," and "everyone who has their spouses' support can do it." I'm just saying that she has his support, and in the neighborhoods they've lived in, it is often necessary to have both parents work.


I never said you didn't have your own opinions, and I did read your other posts. I wasn't directing the luxury comment to mean that you specifically had a fancy lifestyle; I was responding to the general idea on the thread that it costs more to work/people work in order to afford things that are not necessary. My stepmoms paycheck bought us thing that, frankly, were necessary. Could we have stayed in our townhouse longer? Yes, but after the first five drug busts on the doorstep they decided to move.


With respect, this is very affluent e-community and I felt the need to point out that not everyone will ever be able to make it on one income, sacrifices or not.


(edited for clarity)

 

[leeenie]

Date: 2/13/2006 5:36:06 PM
Author: rainbowtrout

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM
Author: teagreen

...I''m not trying to tell anyone that their choice is a stupid one. I''m just disturbed that a lot of people make their ONE choice and champion it as the way to be without even recognizing 1) that there are plenty of considerations that play into the decision (besides ''the Lexus''), 2) that there are social and historical reasons for the way things are - WHY is it that mothers have to be the ones that stay home, especially when financials are not the reason?, and 3) that there are real consequences to peoples'' choices. It''s not just about you, your husband, and your kids getting fresh cookies and an audience at soccer games - we all live in this society and what we do affects everyone, ultimately your kids, down the road.

While I do agree that our choice effects a larger social reality, what sounds good in the classroom becomes hard to put into practice in reality. No one here at college that I know was enouraged to study hard so they would find a good man; it seems that high powered, smart people are attracted to each other--and then someone has to give something up. Becuase of the social realities in place it is usually the women. Men take a MUCH higher paycut if they attempt to work parttime or to leave early for games, etc. I''ve some studies on this if you are interested.

It''s great to make the idealistic choices if you can, but its hard to look at your children and say no, mommy can''t stay home because she has to change the social relality though her job as a [insert non-world changing job here]

OTOH, someone has got to change it or it will always stay the same. I find it hard to see a world where the people in power are 95 percent men and announce, ''No, I''m not oppressed, I have a choice!'' Right, as long as they give it to me.

Haha on your last comment - by that I mean I''m in amused agreement.

I agree with you rainbowtrout that it''s anything but simple to try to change the reality - I recognize that it would be extremely difficult to leave my baby at home. I just wanted to point out an observation that a lot of people seem to be in turning a blind eye to - which is that womens'' decisions to work are influenced by MORE than wanting a Lexus, and womens'' decisions not to work are both caused by social reasons and also perpetuate the status quo, which is IMHO nothing to be happy or feel empowered about.

 

[Mara]

for me personally, i don't identify strongly enough with my job to want to continue making a 'name' for myself...i am not a doctor or a lawyer or anything where i really had to fight to get where i am at and i could see those who do not wanting to give it up to be that stay at home mom. so maybe for me it's more like well really what makes more sense...when the time comes. this is also why i did not really care about keeping my maiden name because it is not like anyone knows me that way that wouldn't know me the same way as a married woman with a married name. i haven't written a book or articles or similar under a maiden name.

for me the ideal situation would be where i could continue to work a bit, 90% from home and still supplement our income so that we could afford to be that 1.5 income household and do the fun things we like to do, take the trip if we want etc etc....but without sacrificing our kids for the almighty dollar. we could afford to live off one income, but we could afford to live even better off 1.5 incomes and i could still be home with the kids...the way my scenario is setup now anyway. it's all speculation. so i consider ourselves very lucky if the time comes and that is what we have. also i would feel more positive in general if i was contributing both as a parent and as a breadwinner still. just for my own mental state, i have worked since i was 15 and don't really feel comfortable 'relying' on anyone, even my own husband to 'take care of me'....i know that some would say that i should give myself more freely or whatever but after years of taking care of myself it's just very hard to blindly say oh okay sure lets live off your income...it's just not how i was raised i guess. NOT that it's a bad thing if you do...i think it's great when couples are so meshed they both feel really comfortable doing that. but our mentalities is that we feel better when we both contribute in a 'measureable' way. maybe over time that will change the more years we are together.

 

[leeenie]

Date: 2/13/2006 6:04:48 PM
Author: Momoftwo

I never said that everyone could do it, but that anyone who really wanted to (meaning had their spouses support) could if they were willing to give up some things. If you read my other posts youd'' see I said that. I said in my personal, my own experience, the moms I knew personally did not work because they needed to put food on the table. What I find offensive is those who have never had or made the choice because they don''t have children telling us that have done it that we''ve given up the ''progress'' women have made over the years. (This is not directed at you). Believe me, as you can tell, I do have my own opinions.

The fact is we did live pay check to pay check when my boys were small but I never ever regretted it and if you notice the moms on here are pretty much in agreement on that. We didn''t have the extra luxuries either, but you know what, kids really don''t care about all that stuff when they''re small. They learn it later on, but they really just want mom and dad there. Just because I dont'' say it ''politically correct'' doesn''t mean I''m saying any different than anyone else.

For some reason I have a feeling this is directed at me so I''ll respond. Just because I have never had children doesn''t mean that I''m not entitled to my opinion. But that''s besides the point.

The reality is that the choices of women to stay at home rather than be in the workforce skews the balance of power in society (or keeps it as it always has been) - to be all men - as well keeps a tight hold on the opportunities that are available to girls and women. I don''t think there is a plausible counterargument to that statement - if anyone has one, please share. If you think it''s a good thing for the world to continue to be controlled by men and to effectively tell your daughters that they can''t "be" something (a senator, whatever), or that a woman''s place is in the home (!), then that''s your opinion too. But I don''t think it''s offensive for me to think that mothers staying at home affects the status of women in this country and in the world. If I were to do it, which I might, I''d recognize that I was part of it too.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/13/2006 6:06:51 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM

Author: teagreen

Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman''s place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary).

I find it scary too. As the only child of a single mother (and a wonderful father, I shouldn''t make it seem as though he wasn''t in my life), my parents always pushed for a good, solid education. ''Never put yourself in the position where you depend solely on a man'', my father used to say, and it''s so incredibly true. It''s important for women today to equip themselves with the knowledge and power to do whatever it is that they want to do and have the means to support themselves as needed. To finish college only to settle down and have children is personally very frightening to me. So you have the degree...where''s the experience? Take the chance if you''d like, but I always found it important to have my own back. Men cheat, leave and die. No one''s immune to that. I like to know that I''ll be able to protect and provide for my future children no matter what.

I guess I am a little offended here. I am hoping that you are not insinuating that it is something that women who stay at home do. I encourage my children to get a good education so that they can choose whatever they want to do. A woman''s place is where she wants it to be and children who haven mothers at home are not being taught otherwise I am sure. As a SAHM I DO NOT find it the mindset of most people I come across. Most people think that I should be on some political or radical agenda to change the face of womanhood. That I should be out in the work place, using my education to strive and plow forward the cause of Womanhood. I have been confronted many times by people that have occupations that think that I am wasting my life and giving women who push forward in the working world a bad name cause I accept the oppression of my husband and I am forced to stay at home with the children. Cause my place is in the home... BULL$... that is not what I believe, what my children believe or what my husband believes.

I see more people having a tissy and labeling SAHM than I see SAHM labeling those who work.

Women Cheat, leave and die too. But I would rather know that I spent those hours that I had BEFORE I died with the most important people to me, than behind a desk. I agree that women should be able to support their children whenever they want. But I will let you know.. that ANY mother that loves her children and have to support her children will find a way... NO MATTER WHAT!

So you know what is scary to me?

Thinking that someone might be able to guilt my child into some cause that she does not see nessacary to being part of. I am afraid that she will want to stay home, have the opportunity to stay home and pass it up, cause she is too afraid that she will be ''hurting'' her children by staying home... and in some ways (because she does not go out and leave them in childcare for someone else to raise) discouraging them from growing up and teaching them to be at home.

That''s crap.

My children know that I chose them over others. They know that I can CHOOSE to do anything I want. I ENCOURAGE them to do anything they want to do after college. COLLEGE is not an option for them.. it is mandatory. What they CHOOSE to do afterwards is the choice that they have made.. THEMSELVES.... and I can only teach them that they can do and be anything without giving up their sense of motherhood,if they so choose.

 

[E B]

Oh, wow, Mine...I absolutely didn't mean to offend you. You're obviously on the defensive, though, and to single my post out wasn't exactly fair. Please copy and paste the part you found offensive, as I'm a little confused.

I was just sharing what my parents instilled in me, and I have no doubt you've instilled it into your children as well. Not once did I say that what my parents found important for me your parents didn't find important for you, or more importantly what you find important for your children. But what my father said, however, was extremely important and very true, no matter what. You must ALWAYS be able to fend for yourself, woman or man.

"So you know what is scary to me? Thinking that someone might be able to guilt my child into some cause that she does not see nessacary to being part of. I am afraid that she will want to stay home, have the opportunity to stay home and pass it up, cause she is too afraid that she will be 'hurting' her children by staying home..."

Why would your daughter be afraid she'd be hurting her family by staying at home, even though she might want to be a stay at home mom? I'm not quite understanding this.

Being a SAHM RIGHT out of college is any woman's choice if they indeed the choice, but it wouldn't be mine for the reasons I listed. I'm able to share this opinion as you're able to share yours. It's important for me to get a little piece of the real working world before I become a SAHM mom myself, just in case anything happens. I also happen to want to do what I'm going to school for. I want to be in a creative field and still have time for my family. I'll do both. It's my personal choice.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/13/2006 6:06:51 PM
Author: EBree

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM

Author: teagreen

Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman''s place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary).

I find it scary too. As the only child of a single mother (and a wonderful father, I shouldn''t make it seem as though he wasn''t in my life), my parents always pushed for a good, solid education. ''Never put yourself in the position where you depend solely on a man'', my father used to say, and it''s so incredibly true. It''s important for women today to equip themselves with the knowledge and power to do whatever it is that they want to do and have the means to support themselves as needed. To finish college only to settle down and have children is personally very frightening to me. So you have the degree...where''s the experience? Take the chance if you''d like, but I always found it important to have my own back. Men cheat, leave and die. No one''s immune to that. I like to know that I''ll be able to protect and provide for my future children no matter what.

I''m not exactly sure why you''d find it scary. I have a college education and was encouraged to get one, but it was my choice to stay home. Never have I felt any pressure one way or the other socially. I feel very blessed that my hubby has a good income and I CAN stay home. I don''t know anyone who has the midset that the women''s place is in the home that isn''t over the age of 70. When I was young, my mom stayed home. My parents divorced when I was 11 and she went back to work. Both remarried and everyone works because they had to just to survive. I can take care of myself and my kids if I needed to. Educating yourself and being the best you can be will help to rid the "fear" of even caring what others mindsets are. I agree there is no right or wrong answer but I don''t think sociaty is dictating the women should get an education to snag a man and settle down. If anything, it''s the opposite. have the career, kids, vacations, you can have it all

 

[rainbowtrout]

MINE!!:


OK, so this is a little OT, but you sound like my mom

I think us younger, non-kid having people do tend to idealize the world a little much. I think maybe what teagreen and to a lesser extent I are saying is that it''s important to question why we feel the way we do, why we make the choices we do.

I think we can push the debate further by asking: why isn''t the workplace set up 7 to 3 instead of 9 to five? Why does it seem that childless people or those who have a full time "wife" get ahead faster in the workplace? IMO, we need to be a more family-friendly country in general.

To be fair, it was scary when I would visit my dad and stepmom and they would both be out working until 2 or 3 am in the morning and I would watch my brother. It was nice to have one of them home. It was even nice to have my mom around all the time even though mostly she just laid around on the couch sick. I am in favor of a stay at home parent--I just *question* why it is the woman. (for the record, my mother rolls her eyes about now and says "because that''s reality, sweetheart."

MINE, what do you think about ginger''s question? Why do more women stay home? Why do we feel so much more guilty to leave the little ones at home than men do?

 

[rainbowtrout]

I think we also need to remember history and how short a period of time ago it was when we did not have a choice.

Something that keeps coming hauntingly to mind here is the goverment allowing women''s education so that they would raise more intelligent children. Women''s education, when it has been allowed, until recently served the purpose of bringing up better children.

So being a SAHM right out of college may be the right choice for you, but I personally look and that choice and feel the weight of what has happened before...am I paranoid..maybe.


Am I avoiding my paper? Yes!

 

[E B]

Date: 2/13/2006 6:58:57 PM
Author: mrssalvo

I'm not exactly sure why you'd find it scary. I have a college education and was encouraged to get one, but it was my choice to stay home. Never have I felt any pressure one way or the other socially. I feel very blessed that my hubby has a good income and I CAN stay home. I don't know anyone who has the midset that the women's place is in the home that isn't over the age of 70. When I was young, my mom stayed home. My parents divorced when I was 11 and she went back to work. Both remarried and everyone works because they had to just to survive. I can take care of myself and my kids if I needed to. Educating yourself and being the best you can be will help to rid the 'fear' of even caring what others mindsets are. I agree there is no right or wrong answer but I don't think sociaty is dictating the women should get an education to snag a man and settle down. If anything, it's the opposite. have the career, kids, vacations, you can have it all

MrsSalvo,

I guess I find it scary because I had to watch it happen to my mom. She didn't finish her college degree for one reason or another, and when she and my father divorced (I was 3), she had to get back out into the working world with very little experience. She didn't have a choice, and it happens that fast. Making an average of what $8.00 an hour is today and having to support her child wasn't easy on her. She sunk into deep depression and had to find the strength that most could not to keep being a mom to me.

That's what I'm afraid of, honestly. It happens...and I've seen it first hand. I absolutely agree with what you've said above...educating myself and being the best I can be IS heping me rid the fear of what could happen, and that's all I've been trying to say all along.

 

[qtiekiki]

Date: 2/13/2006 3:55:47 PM
Author: gingerBcookie
Wow, what an interesting thread! I''ve thought about this issue many times and enjoyed reading through all these thoughts and opinions. Here''s a question though: why stay at home mom vs. stay at home dad?

is it because the husbands/dads are making more money?

what if the female was the one making the higher income?

is the decidion based on gender or based on finances?

why are the majority of the caretakers here still female?

is it gender roles or is it income?

the reason i ask is that i will be making ~3-5x my soon-to-be hubby''s income. children are very very important to us and if you were in our position, who would stay at home?

what would the decision be based on?

I guess the decision is based on different things for each couples. Here''s not set solutions to everyone''s situations. If I was in the position where I make more than my DH and we decided we want a parent to stay at home, then DH would be the one staying at home because it makes sense to me financially.

My guess on why the majority of caretakers are still female is that as much as females'' rights and powers have increased since the 50''s & 60''s, the majority of high power jobs are still held by men. Just a guess.

And after thinking about this, I have to admit that my question is loaded and biased based on my own situation where my DH''s income will be about 2x my income when I get a job.

I wonder how our locations (west coast vs east coast vs southwest, big city vs small town, etc) affect our views and opinions in this subject.

 

[MINE!!]

Ebree, Sorry.. posted both posts there. I used the Men Lie Cheat and Die thing for only part of my response.

When I say that I children (women or men) should have a choice after college to stay at home, it was with the intent of saying that I do not beleive that a child is being taught that she must go to school at get an education just to find a man to take care of her. It was more in the response and insinuatation that I beleive came from the comment of teagreen.

Date: 2/13/2006 5:21:48 PM
Author: teagreen
Should I encourage my daughter to study hard so she can go to a good college and snag a man who can support her and children so she can stay home? Is the woman''s place still in the home? It sure seems like that is the mindset of many people (which I find personally scary)

Actually most of my post was based on the comment that somehow staying at home is preventing a child from understand that she has a voice in this world and that men do not control her decisions.. said like this...

teagreen
The reality is that the choices of women to stay at home rather than be in the workforce skews the balance of power in society (or keeps it as it always has been) - to be all men - as well keeps a tight hold on the opportunities that are available to girls and women.  I don''t think there is a plausible counterargument to that statement - if anyone has one, please share.  If you think it''s a good thing for the world to continue to be controlled by men and to effectively tell your daughters that they can''t "be" something (a senator, whatever), or that a woman''s place is in the home (!), then that''s your opinion too.  But I don''t think it''s offensive for me to think that mothers staying at home affects the status of women in this country and in the world.

I think it is absoultely ridiculous.. for all the reasons I have stated in my previous posts.

My question is why are the women who stay at home to be MOTHERS are the bad guys cause they choose and are able to stay at home with their children..... I am happy and I do not need to fight your crusade and if my children choose to do so.. that is what they will do.. cause it is their choice.

My children will feel the pressure of society .. to be be a good little crusader and work for the feminist cause.. she will be sucked into as well....just as we all have or were at one time or another, But I hope not so much that she does not recognize the prize for the sacrifice.

I agree that people need experience Ebree, you are absoultely correct! I agree 100%. I respect that this is what you choose. But I think (Not on your comments) that to assume that a woman is somehow oppressing other women by choosing her flesh and blood over a career is somewhat ignorant.

 

[sevens one]

Date: 2/13/2006 1:05:51 PM
Author: MINE!!
I stayed at home with my first daughter till she was 5. My youngest was 2. I had to return to work b/c I was now a single mom. I worked 40 hours a week, busted my tail, had a high paying, highly respected position in the furniture industry. Was well know in my field and then... I quit. I just quit... My youngest daughter was now almost 5. There is not a day that goes by that I do not regret the years I wasted working. I will NEVER be able to retrieve those years that I lost with my daughters.. never.. and they go by soo quickly. I took a drastic step.. quit my job, went back to school and lived off of student loans. Lived off of NOTHING basically... But I was home when my kids were sick. I knew if they needed me. I picked them up from school everyday. I cooked them dinner. Got involved in their soccer programs. Never have missed a school play, ballet recital or soccer scrimmage (and have made it to almost all the games). I am there to open up a can of whoop a$$ at school when a sub crosses the line and I am able to nip things in the bud when my littlest is having a difficult time with her readingl. I am a 30 year old hottie of a mom who shock people when I say that I have a 7 and 10 year old. I take very good care of myself. I had to decide personally where my priorities lie. DID they lie with being respected and admired by my peers or being there and respected by my children.. the scale for me came crashing down on the side of my daughters.

Do I have an identity outside of my children.. LOL... you tell me. I am opinionated, smart mouthed and feel strongly about things. I do what I want and when I want within what are MY priorities. I make my own rules.. period. I have just decided that everything that I do and the decisions that I make and the MY rules that I follow are going to include MY children.

When I got married last summer my children sat down and talked to me about it. My oldest was afraid that I was not going to be there for her when she needed me anymore. She said that she was worried that I was going to go back to work and that I would miss her soccer games and my youngest started to cry cause she wanted to know if I would have time to make her class cupcakes and whether or not we were going to have to skip cuddle time at night before bed. I brought them into this world and took the responsibility to raise them. It is the greatest treasure I could ever have hoped to have.

Before I had children I had decided that I was going to work. The day I had my children I decided that I wanted to be a mother. That the completeness that I had with my children could never be the same as a trip to Hawaii ro driving a Lexus. I AM PROUD that I am a stay at home mom. I will be completeing college in about 3 months. I have the fortune that I now do not have to work. We plan to try to have another baby in the fall. I will see that child smile for the first time, hear his first giggle, watch his first steps and cry the first time he steps into hos kindergarten classroom. but most of all I will know that I was there for him and for my daughters and that makes me complete. SO I love being a mom.. a STAY at home mom. I love being here. I LOVE my job. IT is all I want. AND I DO BELIEVE what I say. I have for the past 10 years. Of all the regrets that I have it is never that I was not able to define my life by the title of the working worlds occupation, but that I cannot go back and recapture the time I feel I wasted on working and my pride is that I am defined by the occupation that I chose with my heart and that is to never miss a moment that I have with my children.

It is a personal decision. I agree about the working to pay someone else ideal.. (working only to pay child care). That is defintely a factor. But I think making a decision to stay at home and raise your children is a heart decision.

As for whether I feel this has set mothers back.. LOL.. I have to laugh. PLEEEEAAASSSEEEE. I stay at home because I CHOOSE to do so. Not because society says so.. (BTW.... Feminism is a bad word to me too..... and I have had the mis experience of hearing from people that think I am being oppressed because I have to stay at home with the children... all in the name of feminism... it is disgusting to me.)

My mother was a W(B)itch who only cared about the bottle she was tipping... and it wasn''t milk. She blamed me for having to stay home. She loudly annouced when I was 9 that she refused to stay home and raise children when she was too smart for that. She want back to school, got her degree and chose to work. No one was ever there when I had school musicals, no one came to see me run track, no one checked my homework, helped me with reports or made me dinner at night. No held me when my first boyfriend dumped me or told me that everything would be alright when I threw up in class at the age of 10. No one asked me how I felt, what I beleived in or what I dreamed about. My daughter is 10. I went back to school and decided that she was more important than new things. I know her dreams, I know her beliefs, I have held her when she thought the world was over, I am able to tell her that I love her 100 million times a day. I chose her, both of them, and that is what they are going to remember and that is going to bring the inspiration and confidence to help them do and be anything they want.

They are my gift and my gift to this world is the two amazing confident women that they will become.

So, there is my choice. We have a choice. You have to do what your heart tells you.

that was beautiful

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/13/2006 6:59:44 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
MINE!!:



OK, so this is a little OT, but you sound like my mom

I think us younger, non-kid having people do tend to idealize the world a little much. I think maybe what teagreen and to a lesser extent I are saying is that it''s important to question why we feel the way we do, why we make the choices we do.


I think we can push the debate further by asking: why isn''t the workplace set up 7 to 3 instead of 9 to five? Why does it seem that childless people or those who have a full time ''wife'' get ahead faster in the workplace? IMO, we need to be a more family-friendly country in general.


To be fair, it was scary when I would visit my dad and stepmom and they would both be out working until 2 or 3 am in the morning and I would watch my brother. It was nice to have one of them home. It was even nice to have my mom around all the time even though mostly she just laid around on the couch sick. I am in favor of a stay at home parent--I just *question* why it is the woman. (for the record, my mother rolls her eyes about now and says ''because that''s reality, sweetheart.''


MINE, what do you think about ginger''s question? Why do more women stay home? Why do we feel so much more guilty to leave the little ones at home than men do?

Good question... I am sure that some would disagree here.. but I feel that women are both with a more maternal instict. The father of my children is the most amaxing man, very nurturing, very loving and a WONDERFUL father... but he would HATE to stay at home. Maybe the women that stay at home are no nessacarily oppressed by society, but feel a maternal need and satisfaction knowing that she is there for her offspring. Progessive people my deny this and say that it is just a form of brainwash by men...LOL.. I find this hilarious. In the animal kingdom 99% of all animals that take care of their offspring are female... and I am sure that they are not fussing cause they feel a need to protect, nurture and raise their offspring.

I agree, the workplace needs to be more family friendly. From what my DH says, this is something that is only new to the United States. People in France get months of for ''family time'' Work days are shorter. In Canada you get 12 MONTHS maternity leave. Paid... wow!!! Not here in the United States. But I feel no responsibility for this system just because I CHOOSE to stay at home with my children.

 

[hlmr]

I wrote this long post and somehow I managed to delete it before posting

so here''s a summary:

The hand that rocks the cradle does rule the world to a large extent.

You really don''t know for sure whether you will be a SAHM until you have a baby.

Women may not be fairly represented in the top tiers of the business/political world but don''t think for a second they don''t have a profound influence on most decision making by their husbands.

Heather