I need some advice about this!

[HollyGo-Lightly]

Hi all! I have lurked long enough!!

My man and I have known each other for 3 years, and been seeing each other for almost a year and half.We knew we were going to get married almost after we decided to date.He promised we were getting engaged at our 1 year, we didn’t.He bought the ring, as I saw the box come in from our local jewelers, but he’s not mentioned it.Also, his friend slipped up and said it’s coming soon, so I know it is.

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I will sound shallow, I know, but I know he’s not romantic at all.He’s just not.He’s also quiet and gets nervous in public doing any speeches and stuff, so I am a little worried his proposal will be this sad little thing.I know I know, it’s important that he ask and I am lucky, because I have a feeling the ring is very gorgeous, but I ALWAYS dreamed of a stunning proposal.I dated a guy before him who swore when he proposed he would propose to me on top of a cruise ship headed to the Mediterranean.I broke it off with him, but I miss those wildly romantic ideas he used to have…He used to give me presents and surprises all the time, and my guy (although I LOVE him and KNOW he’s the one) doesn’t.He’s so practical, he suggest he buys me plants instead of giving me flowers…WHY is he like this?!

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I explained how I really wanted to get little trinkets from him, but he never does, and he can afford it, now that he got a new job (making almost twice what he used to) I am not asking for diamond necklaces, but even little silver or gold things?Or even dressing up and going out for a nice night on the town (we live near DC).We don’t do much, and I am afraid he will get worse with time; he will be ignorant of my need to have romance and excitement (I am only 24!).Again, I love him, but how do you light that little fire under a guy after you have complained so many times and don’t think he even understands what to do!!???

 

[Nicrez]

Hey Holly, not to sound a bit mean at all, (I promise) but do you realize that your screen name and your plight have some strange similiarities? Hee Hee...




Ok, that said, I think you need to talk to him and truly explain what it is you want from him, and vice versa. I think with lots of men, they get all caught up in things of their own life, they often forget to do those little "rmonatic" things for the woman that loves them. No doubt you do things for him, and you may think, hey, why can't he appreciate me or adore me? Heard that before!




Talk to him. Explain how important it is for you to feel the romance in your relationship. I am sure he will see how important it is and respond much better. Maybe the new job is stressful to him and he's worried about that?

 

[sumi]

You could also try to do some romantic things for him. Plan a very special night for him, bring him some flowers. Do something really romantic for him. Even if you do the planning, you'll end up having a great night also. It's the whole "do unto others" thing, you know? He might realize how special it makes him feel and be inspired to do the same for you.

Too often the man bears the burden of bringing romance in to the relationship. Personally, I feel like I shouldn't demand so much romance from my husband if I am not willing to do the same for him.

 

[HollyGo-Lightly]

Sumi, great advice, I will try, but i do things for him a lot. I buy little outfit i know he'll like, I tried taking him out to dinner for a romantic night and he's never really in the mood, or just won't dress up. But I will try.




Nicrez, I DO know that my name is very like the dilemma, that's sort of why I chose it. I feel like I am always looking into the window of all these wonderful things, but never really get anything more than a donut outside that window! My friend Susie has a GREAT guy who bought her this lovel necklace for no reason at all! My friend Jen got a platinum necklace for her 2 year anniversary (from Tiffany's) and they are not all wealthy. They get all this attention and pet names and stuff and I tend to get "buddy" and "pal". I hate how sometimes I am one of the guys. It drives me nuts to dress all up, get my hair, nails done, and he's just sort of, "hey did you get a new shirt?"




We talked...we fought about this stuff. He really is great is so many ways, but this is not one of them! Is there a romantic guy's training school? Where did my girlfriends get their guys?! Honestly, I DO so much for him, hoping he would get the hint and the past year he hasn't...I need some serious arsenal, and I will try Sumi's suggestion. I just need a back up, if that doesn't work, because you can't remold a guy after 24 years of being catered by his mom!! (She was a doting housewife who loved her baby boy!) Sometimes I wonder if I DID more and spent every waking hour taking care of his needs, would he even appreciate it?!

 

[sumi]

Your guy sounds JUST LIKE my friend's husband. He's really a wonderful man, but he just doesn't get it when it comes to romance. Believe me, my friend does EVERYTHING for her husband, but (although I'm sure he appreciates it) it hasn't changed his behavior. I think it's because he was raised by a mother who did EVERYTHING for him so he's just used to it.

It sounds like this is something that is really important to you and I can understand that.

Hmmm...I'm trying to think of a back up plan for you in case my original suggestion doesn't work. However, the only thing I can think of is to talk to him about it and really explain how important it is to you. I know you've already done that though. Just keep in mind that it's really hard for people to change, this might be a really slow process.

 

[mike04456]

Holly, my wife often says the same things you do, and we've been happily married for almost 13 years. I am capable of romantic gestures, but I have to remember and remind myself to think about it. Over the years, I have forgotten birthday cards and Valentine cards, asked my wife (six months after she got it), "Is that a new top?", and for the most part leave the social planning to her. She puts up with it because, as she also says, I have plenty of other good qualities. Being sentimental and wildly romantic just isn't one of them, though I like to think I've improved over the years.




I think you can change your guy to some extent, but after a certain point, you may just have to live with it, and decide whether you can be happy that way given everything else you love about him.

 

[Nicrez]

Holly, truer words have never been spoken. LawGem is right, as is Sumi! My experience has been that no one changes over night and yes, it will be a lot of work to get him to realize that you are not his mother. I am sure he appreciates you (especially when you are NOT THERE), and he will realize this all one day, little by little. Being widly romantic does not come easily to men, and to those whom it does, well, let's just say their boyfriends are probably darn lucky! (JUST KIDDING!)




We all have to contend with SO who have been spoiled to some extent by their parents. Mine gave me attention up the wazoo, being the youngest, and frankly I was way too loved for my own good. Unfortunately I am not the little princess outside their world...DAMN! So that being said, you will have to decide how much romance you can live without, but remember that grass is always greener on the other side, and sometimes, it's a long process, but it can happen.




Remember hearing a story of an old lady who never got a sweet word or gesture from her husband (he was non-emotional), but when he died he hald her hand all night and kissed her forehead before he died and said, "Thank you, I will always love you." I remember that from a story someone told me, and it saddened me, but sometimes, it actually uplifts me that he always thought it, but she said she always knew it anyway...

 

[VAgal13]

Holly,

My boyfriend used to not be as romantic as he is now. I ended up having to talk (and cry) for him to fully understand that I NEED romance in my life. Its not the presents as much as the thought behind things.

Once he saw that it was really bothering me...he started really making an effort. Now, I can honesty say that he is so sweet and thoughtful. He brings home DVDs he knows I have wanted or buys me ice cream and surprises me with it. They aren't big presents, but thoughtful ones. He even makes an effort to take me to nice places more.

So, there is hope, I promise. Just have a heart-to-heart with him and don't let him use the excuse "I'm not very romantic"...that just means "I don't like putting the effort in". Any guy can be romantic when they want to.

Good luck, hon, and I hope it works out for you.

-Sarah (a fellow DC area gal)

P.S. Can't wait to see the ring when he des ask. Please post it once you get it!

 

[HollyGo-Lightly]

Should I propose to him first to sort of show him how romantically it can be done. That was a suggestion of my friend. It sounds a bit silly, but maybe it could have an impact?




I know there's a lot I have to sacrifice being with him. I had a very wealthy guy after me, but he was such a waste of wallet! I never liked the idea of forever with him, and he was romantic (at least enough)...




My guy is great, but I have had the crying talks with him. I just don't think he thinks of me, until I say, "hello, you ruined my week by taking me to go shoe shopping with you all week, can you please make my weekend special and surprise me with a drive out to Maryland for some crab cakes, or something? Can we just take one weekend to go away somewhere to a B&B and just snuggle and eat interesting foods?" I have made these suggestions, but he would say, "sure, but I can't now..."or "you pick the place, here's my card..." I want the EFFORT and the THOUGHTS to be HIS! I can pay for things myself, I don't need THAT!




So, I will continue to mention things, but I am hoping one day it will come out of nowhere and he will surprise me with a lovely trinket or a fun getaway for NO REASON and make me feel special and loved. Cleaning out the closet because everything fell out ON you isn't consideration...Filling the closet with little love note on sticky notes IS...Or having roses waiting on the bed for no reason or when he upsets me or lets me down?




I guess I needed to vent and get a feeling about how men operate in general, to see if I was doing something wrong here...It makes me feel unloved (although I am sure I am not) and I feel less excited about our future together when I know that the spontaneity and thoughtfulness is gone. He once sent flowers to my office for nothing or bought me a card saying I love you...He doesn't do that anymore...Should I stop putting out?! LOL

Hey there Sarah, isn't the DC area just lovely!!!??

 

[dbgaap]

I read a book called The Five Languages of Love by Dr. Gary Chapman. Actually, I listened to the audio version in the car during my commute.
The way he breaks it down, is that people prefer to express love by 5 main methods: quality time, physical touch, acts of love, giving of gifts and one more, I forgot.
ANYWAY after I listened to the book, I started noticing patterns in myself, my boyfriend... I even noticed things I could do to help my teenage daughter feel more secure & loved.

Honestly, since I am not much of a touchy-feely type, I had no idea how much a hug can help someone feel loved. And I never used to give gifts, but I started bringing home little trinkets for my daughter and WOW she responds well to that.

Try the book and if you like it, see if you can get him to read it.
My boyfriend read it after I did and it sparked some really nice conversations.

 

[Nicrez]

Please note there was a sharp increase in the stock price of Barnes and Nobles today based on that book...LOL just kidding! Actually, none of us are immune from the usual and boring entering our lives. Maybe he's sad about something or stressed about his new job AND an engagement. Maybe he's a bit shell-shocked. Did you guys talk it out about what HIS problems are? That way maybe you can clear the way for his thinking about you when he gets all HIS stuff out of the way?

I know it seems like an awful lot of work to do for a while to come, but hopefully it's worth it. And I think communicating that you are helping him with his problems despite your wishes and needs, if he doesn't get it already, he may later on say, "Hey, this girl IS trying to help. I DO appreciate her and she's sad. What makes her happy? Let me do it for her." I doubt he is THAT selfish not to think that way eventually. I do just think that maybe there's a lot of pressure on him?

Holly, all I can say is that I know it will be tough, but not impossible. Try an different approach, like little love notes around the house, like "free dinner out, TAG you're it!" and the next nice thing to be done is his move. And sort of a reciprocating tag of doing things for eachother. I know it sounds retarded, but I actually had a coworker who was given this advice in couples therapy as a reminder to the guy that he needed to do something nice every while. So basically when you feel down, offer something, then ask him to reciprocate. Maybe it can become a game or gag so he'll be more pro-active...Not sure...? Either way, good luck!

As for the proposing, do you think that's a bit in his face? Also most guys like taking the first step, since it's a tradition, and he DOES have the ring you say. Mine is withholding on me too, but mine is actually talking about it and taking pictures (when I am not around) and letting me see blurry images of my baby...(we picked out the stone together), so things could be more torturous!!!

 

[VAgal13]

Holly,

Yes, the Dc area is amazing...especially for young people like us!

(I am also 24!)

I definitely would not propose to him. At least not yet. He may be planning a surprise for you, and you would hate to ruin in. Set a deadline, and don't tell him when it is. If things have not changed by then,or at least started to improve, then you need to decide if you can live with it or if you should move on (as hard as that may be).

I would plan a weekend trip for the two of you. Keep it a secret, and surprise him. Maybe it will sink in that you love doing those kind of spontaneous things and he will start trying more.

Unfortunately, every guy is different...so its really hard to say exactly what to do in your situation. I wish you luck though, and let me know if you need help thinking of some fun getaway ideas to sneak him away to.

-Sarah

 

[fire&ice]

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On 3/9/2004 1:04:12 PM LawGem wrote:


I think you can change your guy to some extent, but after a certain point, you may just have to live with it, and decide whether you can be happy that way given everything else you love about him.
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Yep, you just have to accept some things. And remember, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[Nicrez]

Just hoping it all works out!!!

 

[HollyGo-Lightly]

Thanks Nicrez...






Sarah, thanks for the offer!! I am actaully hoping to go somewhere fun like Florida for a weekend, or if I wanted romantic, my friend's counsin owns a little B&B in CT, so that could be fun too...But DC is SO lovely!!!

I know there's a breaking point there, but I have also never been so afraid of being without any person in my life! He's the kind of guy I KNOW I want to grow old with, and something like him being romantic, isn't worth losing him over...I think I made that decision in my rational mind, since all the other things about him are great! My family adores him and thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread (he is), and my instincts say he's make such a great dad, as my niece can't be without him...He's funny and goofy, and can be such a rock sometimes. he actually treats me with respect and love, but it's not always in the ways I want...Like Dbgaap stated...he expresses it in ther ways.




I JUST WISH HE WOULD EXPRESS IT ROMANTICALLY!!!

 

[Rand_alThor]

Hi Holly,
Take my words with a grain of salt. I dont know you and I dont know your to be fiancee and whatever I say, I say in the context of what I have read.




From your original post I sense that you are falling into the "comparison" trap. Usually thats the girlfriends getting together and comparing what their men do for them and what they(the men) get them(the women), (imagine a girlie version of men comparing their "peckers"). Ask youself , do you really just want the "platinum necklaces" so you can show off to your friends or is it because you equate the gift to thoughtfulness or an expression of love. Either way that attitude is not something I would subscribe to. To be very blunt either of those things would put such a person "squarely" in the material girl category. ( I also know and acknowledge that people who subscribe to what I am saying are "rare").




Love and romance is not about gifts. Let me ask you Should it be? You may counter by saying , "but I dont care get me a $1.00 trinket". Its still money. Why are you expecting money to be spent on you? Does money only equate to love? What about actions alone? What about a simple "I love you"? How much weight do those words hold in your book? Or do you feel that you are not getting that emotional warmth from a relationship and are trying to fill it with material warmth? (I'm not making judgements about your personality here, just showing you a different way of thinking)




The size of a man's wallet does not determine what he spends on trinkets or more expensive gifts fo his love one.




You say you love this man and want to grow old with him. Ask yourself what it is, you truly love about him? Does he still have those qualities? If those core qualities that you loved about him are changing as he gets older then yes maybe there is cause for concern.




I read an interesting article about relationships where the author states that men get into relationships hoping that women wont change and women get into relationships expecting that men will change. This is relevant because if you always knew he was the un romantic type then why did you date him? Are you now expecting him to change? Why?



From his perspective, He has to see that you have to stop playing mom and start playing the wife. He has to acknowledge that a relationship requires effort and prior to making any effort he has to realise what effort makes a difference in your book and what doesn't? Do you think he feels as though hes doing things for you and he feels like he puts in effort but you feel as though its not enough. Help him see what are the things makes a difference in your book. Also do the same back in return. Do you feel as though you are putting in effort he doesnt acknowledge. Maybe you are buying him random shirts/pants little gifts. Why not just get some feedback from him and see if he truly appreciates those things and ask him what truly makes a difference?




What I'm about to say is very childish but it is also very true.
Example: I absolutely positively love RC Helicpoters. I want one but dont need one. I think they are beyond COOL. Now my personality type is simple, when I need a shirt, I go and buy a shirt. Now imagine if my GF saved up for 3 months and bought me one of those for my bday. I would never forget it. I would rather that one thoughtful gift in a year than many little ones most of which I would go and get on my own. I think the key difference here is "WANT" versus "NEED".




Finally try to communicate your "want" vs "need" to him and get him to do the same back in return.


Lets move onto the proposal itself. You are worried that it will be a sad little thing. I dont understand how any proposal can be a sad little thing. Someone is about to ask you to spend the rest of your life with him. Thats pretty significant right. Whats the harm in him getting down on a knee in your kitchen floor and saying "Will you marry me?". I'm not even going to bring up the money that a person spends on the rock. Why compare with anyone else? If you are truly happy with your relationship, how or where he does it or how much he spent on a rock is all insignificant in comparison to those 4 "not so sad" words "Will you marry me?"

 

[Nicrez]

Holly, that lovely problem starter (Rand), would be mine...

In this instance I don't agree with him totally. I think it's important to realize the things that are needed in your relationship with anyone, and vice versa. What does he need from you. You both need to sit down and discuss those honestly and both with open minds. Maybe writing them down and right next to that a agreed upon solution, so it's just that much easier to outline and see...?

He may be irritated that you are not ______enough, or he hates it when you _____. That said, your pet peeve is this. He may not equate buying things and spending money as showing love. But as people DO express things in different ways, maybe he will learn how it compliments a woman's natural "gatherer" mentality of accumulating things. Maybe you have too much stuff, he thinks you don't need more? Try selling unused or old things, and save that money to buy him something (NOT an RC helicopter) that he really likes and see how good he feels that you spent that hard earned money and sacrificed some of your goods for his pleasure.

I know it's possible, it just may take more communication and a little more patience. As for the engement, don't do it. It's his thing, as he may already have the ring, let him do it. But even if you can't talk to him about it, mention to his friend (who slipped) how it's not about how expensive a place he take you, but how intricate or thoughtful the proposal is. Look at the gal who was proposed to by the locker in HS she had next to her guy's. He put the ring in a very sentimental spot and I am not sure how much a lock costs, but I thought that was so sweet!!! Rand's right that money shouldn't matter it's the proposal, and I am sure it will be sweet! He may even get choked up and nervous, and even without violins in a fancy restaurant, I bet when you see that ring and his face, you'll be bawling or smiling!!!

Good luck, and keep your chin up!