I hope you guy are happy with Affordable Care Act

[Dancing Fire]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

 

[ksinger]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

DF, you really are totally over-qualified for "Hypocrite of The Year".

 

[craighnt]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

Failure to Launch, watch the movie, its classic adult kid wont leave home comedy. Why is she going to school at 26? Doctor, Lawyer?

She is not really poor if you are supporting her. I know for a fact that in order to get food stamps you are supposed to list any and all kind of financial support. As in who pays your bills if you have no money? So someone is not being totally honest. College students can get food stamps, but the legal requirement is that they are on their own and not getting any money from anyone else or eating meals at home. They ask how many people live in their household and how much money they make. A lot of kids are playing both sides of the coin so it looks like benefits are being handed out left and right when in reality they would not qualify if they were being totally honest.

Have you ever been to a soup kitchen or skid row? Walk into a free clinic some time and tell me if you think its as fun as your private doctors office. Ever been to the projects or poor neighborhoods? Being poor has consequences.

Anyways, Its called charity. If you are religious its called "love thy neighbor", if you are more corporate minded, its called "only as strong as your weakest link", if you are more scientific its called "survival of a species". No great society has made it by every man for himself philosophy.

Not everyone in the world was born with your ability to bootstrap yourself into success, with good parenting, or went to a decent school, or some special talent. Even if you worked really hard to get where you are, keep in mind, many people are not born with those opportunities you may have taken for granted. Some of us will need more help then others. We can't all be Gordon Gekko.

Not everyone was born with the same survival skills, just like not everyone is a great artist, musician, or warrior. What a boring world it would be if we were all exactly the same. In fact, diversity of a species is natures way of increasing our odds of survival.

 

[ksinger]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

Failure to Launch, watch the movie, its classic adult kid wont leave home comedy. Why is she going to school at 26? Doctor, Lawyer?

She is not really poor if you are supporting her. I know for a fact that in order to get food stamps you are supposed to list any and all kind of financial support. As in who pays your bills if you have no money? So someone is not being totally honest. College students can get food stamps, but the legal requirement is that they are on their own and not getting any money from anyone else or eating meals at home. They ask how many people live in their household and how much money they make. A lot of kids are playing both sides of the coin so it looks like benefits are being handed out left and right when in reality they would not qualify if they were being totally honest.

Have you ever been to a soup kitchen or skid row? Walk into a free clinic some time and tell me if you think its as fun as your private doctors office. Ever been to the projects or poor neighborhoods? Being poor has consequences.

Anyways, Its called charity. If you are religious its called "love thy neighbor", if you are more corporate minded, its called "only as strong as your weakest link", if you are more scientific its called "survival of a species". No great society has made it by every man for himself philosophy.

Not everyone in the world was born with your ability to bootstrap yourself into success, with good parenting, or went to a decent school, or some special talent. Even if you worked really hard to get where you are, keep in mind, many people are not born with those opportunities you may have taken for granted. Some of us will need more help then others. We can't all be Gordon Gekko.

Not everyone was born with the same survival skills, just like not everyone is a great artist, musician, or warrior. What a boring world it would be if we were all exactly the same. In fact, diversity of a species is natures way of increasing our odds of survival.

Beautiful post, but wasted effort. The harsh rules that DF applies - you know, if you're poor it's your strictly your own fault, you should suffer, etc, - don't apply to his mooching family members. He just enjoys being willfully uninformed and complaining, has been doing it for years.

Craighnt, you'll appreciate this piece I suspect.
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/chris_kluwe_heres_whats_wrong_with_ayn_rand_libertarians/

 

[iLander]

So for that reason and so many damn others we need a system that's not broken. I don't think Obamacare is it but as I wrote before I would love to be proven wrong!

Something needed to be done, but I do not like forcing people to buy a product from a for profit company.
It really bugs me.
That said I am grateful to have insurance now.

Is that what Car Insurance is? Doesn't the law require you to buy car insurance?

 

[iLander]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-taxpayers-hole-1-5-094500219.html

1.5 trillion? chump change

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/study-iraq-afghan-war-costs-to-top-4-trillion/2013/03/28/b82a5dce-97ed-11e2-814b-063623d80a60_story.html

Yup,chump change. a trillion here a trillion there adds up to $17 trillion in debt... If it is so great why aren't people flocking to sign up?..

They are. 3 million so far.

Of course Fox News isn't going to tell you that. That wouldn't be "fair and balanced".

So, IYO 3 million is a lot?..

Wait, I was wrong, I looked it up. It's 6 million people signed up.

Yes, that's a lot, DF.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Being poor in America doesn't have consequences? Oh goodness.... not even sure where to begin with that one

 

[ksinger]

So for that reason and so many damn others we need a system that's not broken. I don't think Obamacare is it but as I wrote before I would love to be proven wrong!

Something needed to be done, but I do not like forcing people to buy a product from a for profit company.
It really bugs me.
That said I am grateful to have insurance now.

Is that what Car Insurance is? Doesn't the law require you to buy car insurance?

Ah, but those are STATE laws, and those are OK, because states are always so much less oppressive and big-brother-y than the big ugly federal gov. laws.

 

[ksinger]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamacare-taxpayers-hole-1-5-094500219.html

1.5 trillion? chump change

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/study-iraq-afghan-war-costs-to-top-4-trillion/2013/03/28/b82a5dce-97ed-11e2-814b-063623d80a60_story.html

Yup,chump change. a trillion here a trillion there adds up to $17 trillion in debt... If it is so great why aren't people flocking to sign up?..

They are. 3 million so far.

Of course Fox News isn't going to tell you that. That wouldn't be "fair and balanced".

So, IYO 3 million is a lot?..

Wait, I was wrong, I looked it up. It's 6 million people signed up.

Yes, that's a lot, DF.

I've read anywhere from 4.6 to 6 mil, but considering it's only been 6 months, and there were an estimated 48 million w/o insurance and there were the inevitable glitches at first AND the red states are doing as much as they can to keep people uninsured by not expanding Medicaid, and generally trying to keep them in the dark and off the exchanges, yeah, that's pretty good.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

Failure to Launch, watch the movie, its classic adult kid wont leave home comedy. Why is she going to school at 26? Doctor, Lawyer?

b/c she is one of the millions of students who couldn't find a job after graduating from college, and no she is not going on food stamps.

 

[ksinger]

DF, I don't know what plan she'd be covered under.....but if she doesn't get insurance then she must take the consequences of her decision. and it is HER decision. at 26 she is no longer a child that you nor can she plead that she "didn't know".

What consequences?... When you are poor in America there are no consequences. She qualifies for food stamp and a free cell phone, but yes, I'm still paying all her bills...her auto insurance, her cell phone, her schooling, etc,etc...

Failure to Launch, watch the movie, its classic adult kid wont leave home comedy. Why is she going to school at 26? Doctor, Lawyer?

b/c she is one of the millions of students who couldn't find a job after graduating from college, and no she is not going on food stamps.

If she is able-bodied and does not have a job, then she is lazy, DF, and and undeserving moocher on someone, in this case you, but likely society. Those claims of being not being able to find a job are crap and you know it. She could go out and work several minimum wage jobs doing SOMETHING. No excuses. She's a lazy drain on other people.

 

[Dancing Fire]

So for that reason and so many damn others we need a system that's not broken. I don't think Obamacare is it but as I wrote before I would love to be proven wrong!

Something needed to be done, but I do not like forcing people to buy a product from a for profit company.
It really bugs me.
That said I am grateful to have insurance now.

Is that what Car Insurance is? Doesn't the law require you to buy car insurance?

Law or no law you would be surprised by how many people are uninsured in Ca.

 

[movie zombie]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1396194064
If she is able-bodied and does not have a job, then she is lazy, DF, and and undeserving moocher on someone, in this case you, but likely society. Those claims of being not being able to find a job are crap and you know it. She could go out and work several minimum wage jobs doing SOMETHING. No excuses. She's a lazy drain on other people.[/quote]


No, she is not the lazy type. she have been trying to find a full time job for the past 2 yrs. She have a part time job but now that she is back in school she only works like 12 hrs per week.

 

[Karl_K]

So for that reason and so many damn others we need a system that's not broken. I don't think Obamacare is it but as I wrote before I would love to be proven wrong!

Something needed to be done, but I do not like forcing people to buy a product from a for profit company.
It really bugs me.
That said I am grateful to have insurance now.

Is that what Car Insurance is? Doesn't the law require you to buy car insurance?

In some states it approaches the same level of wrong as the Obama tax.
In the states where the insurance company is required to report to the dmv that you have it and if you don't they send you a ticket.
A friend of mine junked his car and decided he could live without and dropped insurance, 2 months later he got a no insurance ticket in mail and he did not even have a car. I took 2 court appearances and dozens of phone calls to get it straitened out.
The difference is the Obama tax(supreme court ruled it was a tax) is a tax on living.
The car insurance laws were the slippery slope that lead to the Obama tax.

 

[Karl_K]

So for that reason and so many damn others we need a system that's not broken. I don't think Obamacare is it but as I wrote before I would love to be proven wrong!

Something needed to be done, but I do not like forcing people to buy a product from a for profit company.
It really bugs me.
That said I am grateful to have insurance now.

Is that what Car Insurance is? Doesn't the law require you to buy car insurance?

Ah, but those are STATE laws, and those are OK, because states are always so much less oppressive and big-brother-y than the big ugly federal gov. laws.

The states have grown just as evil and repressive as the federal government if not more so.

 

[Dancing Fire]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

I blame the people in DC for strangling our economy death by not able to create millions of jobs each month.

 

[Maria D]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

That about sums up DF and his whole ridiculous thread.

What was this about anyway?

"I hope you guys are happy" because you voted for the wrong guy who put in place a program whereby everyone was supposed to get health insurance and that's BAD because it costs the country money. Yeah, 10+ years of pointless war cost the country even more money, and I didn't like that either, but that wasn't something I would complain about because I voted for the "right" guy on that one. But back to my daughter - turns out she CAN get insurance but doesn't want any because it costs money. And she can't get employer-based insurance because she can't/won't get a job. A little critical thinking may lead me to think that perhaps this ACA is a GOOD thing because people like my daughter who can't/won't get a job with benefits can at least purchase insurance on their own for a lot less than they would have been able to in the past. But why think critically when I can fall back on OBAMA -> BAD.

DF, how did a conservative like you turn into such a parenting wuss? I'm liberal all the way and managed to raise a responsible daughter - it actually wasn't that hard!

 

[Ella]

This thread is dangerously close to policy violations with the topic and insults certainly are policy violations. Please keep it clean if you want to continue the conversation.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Being poor in America doesn't have consequences? Oh goodness.... not even sure where to begin with that one

You don't where to begin b/c you have never been poor. Do you know how many millions of people on earth would trade for the "poor living style" here in U.S?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Being poor in America doesn't have consequences? Oh goodness.... not even sure where to begin with that one

You don't where to begin b/c you have never been poor. Do you know how many millions of people on earth would trade for the "poor living style" here in U.S?

I've never been poor?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Maria D|1396196104|

DF, how did a conservative like you turn into such a parenting wuss? I'm liberal all the way and managed to raise a responsible daughter - it actually wasn't that hard![/quote]


I am not a die hard conservative like you think.. in fact, mostly likely I will vote for Hillary in 2016.

 

[movie zombie]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

I blame the people in DC for strangling our economy death by not able to create millions of jobs each month.

LOL, you crack me up, DF!
why is it always someone else's fault?
you decided to pay your daughter's bills and you decided to continue to pay for her continuing education.
those are choices you made and for which you are responsible.
don't blame the government for your choices or give them the responsibility for providing all college educated "children" with a job. you could blame the corporations for using $ to pay dividends to stockholders and obscene salaries to CEO's etc. rather than to hire and pay decent wages.

there are no guarantees that one is going to go to college and come out with a job much less a job that gives them all the goodies that it took their parents years to earn and accumulate.
so many want to come out of college, get a job, have a house, and all the things that their parents have right now.
what a shock to the system to learn that life isn't fair, that one may have to work years to get "things" and that everyone and everything doesn't revolve around them.

I blame the parents. it is so prevalent. I saw it 20 years ago and it just seems to be getting worse.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Being poor in America doesn't have consequences? Oh goodness.... not even sure where to begin with that one

You don't where to begin b/c you have never been poor. Do you know how many millions of people on earth would trade for the "poor living style" here in U.S?

I've never been poor?

Oh please!...have you ever live in a house with no toilet, no running water,no electricity? if your answer is "No" then we don't need to go any further about living experiences inside a poor household. In 1965 I stayed in a village in China for 2 months...

 

[Dancing Fire]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

I blame the people in DC for strangling our economy death by not able to create millions of jobs each month.

LOL, you crack me up, DF!
why is it always someone else's fault?
you decided to pay your daughter's bills and you decided to continue to pay for her continuing education.
those are choices you made and for which you are responsible.
don't blame the government for your choices or give them the responsibility for providing all college educated "children" with a job. you could blame the corporations for using $ to pay dividends to stockholders and obscene salaries to CEO's etc. rather than to hire and pay decent wages.

there are no guarantees that one is going to go to college and come out with a job much less a job that gives them all the goodies that it took their parents years to earn and accumulate.
so many want to come out of college, get a job, have a house, and all the things that their parents have right now.
what a shock to the system to learn that life isn't fair, that one may have to work years to get "things" and that everyone and everything doesn't revolve around them.

I blame the parents. it is so prevalent. I saw it 20 years ago and it just seems to be getting worse.

I shouldn't be held responsible for a 26 yrs old adult, but I'll do what ever I can to help her,and as for "blaming the parents" we can both agree on that topic!..why have children when you can't afford to raise them?

 

[ksinger]

Being poor in America doesn't have consequences? Oh goodness.... not even sure where to begin with that one

You don't where to begin b/c you have never been poor. Do you know how many millions of people on earth would trade for the "poor living style" here in U.S?

I've never been poor?

Oh please!...have ever live in a house with no toilet, no running water,no electricity? if your answer is "No" then we don't need to go any further about living experiences inside a poor household. In 1965 I stayed in a village in China for 2 months...

Because only DF understands. The soul of empathy he is.

And gosh, don't we all wish that OUR poor had dirt floors, no clean water, and no electricity, and generally starving? Aspiring to be like China (or Putin's Russia, to judge by the right's goo-goo eyes of late, over his "machismo") seems to be all the rage these days. Then at least we'd KNOW they were truly poor. We simply can't have people walking around disguising their unworthy status. They should be required to display it prominently so we can sort them better. And re-instituting a Dickensian state of affairs would make the US a better place. We may get there yet....

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge. "Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again. "And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not." "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge. "Both very busy, sir." ":Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it." "Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?" "Nothing!" Scrooge replied. "You wish to be anonymous?" "I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there." "Many can't go there; and many would rather die." "If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

 

[ksinger]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

I blame the people in DC for strangling our economy death by not able to create millions of jobs each month.

LOL, you crack me up, DF!
why is it always someone else's fault?
you decided to pay your daughter's bills and you decided to continue to pay for her continuing education.
those are choices you made and for which you are responsible.
don't blame the government for your choices or give them the responsibility for providing all college educated "children" with a job. you could blame the corporations for using $ to pay dividends to stockholders and obscene salaries to CEO's etc. rather than to hire and pay decent wages.

there are no guarantees that one is going to go to college and come out with a job much less a job that gives them all the goodies that it took their parents years to earn and accumulate.
so many want to come out of college, get a job, have a house, and all the things that their parents have right now.
what a shock to the system to learn that life isn't fair, that one may have to work years to get "things" and that everyone and everything doesn't revolve around them.

I blame the parents. it is so prevalent. I saw it 20 years ago and it just seems to be getting worse.

I shouldn't be held responsible for a 26 yrs old adult, but I'll do what ever I can to help her,and as for "blaming the parents" we can both agree on that topic!..why have children when you can't afford to raise them?

And part of raising children is not burdening them with an extended childhood that lasts until their deaths.

You really should consider moving to Italy, I'm thinking.

 

[Dancing Fire]

LOL, DF who always complains about socialism raised a socialist daughter who is willing and able to work but instead lives off DF and society. every year it just gets worse with your posts re your daughter, DF. no one to blame but yourself.

I blame the people in DC for strangling our economy death by not able to create millions of jobs each month.

LOL, you crack me up, DF!
why is it always someone else's fault?

That is a good Q for people living below the poverty line. And I know the answer to that Q..

 

[movie zombie]

I shouldn't be held responsible for a 26 yrs old adult, but I'll do what ever I can to help her,and as for "blaming the parents" we can both agree on that topic!..why have children when you can't afford to raise them?

you are still not getting it, DF, and I fear it is another avoid and deflect maneuver: parents continuing to support their adult children in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed [as in your case] does not allow the children to learn to stand on their own and take consequences for their decisions. in the context in which I wrote "blame the parents" it was fully understood....taking it to move into another topic is the usual and if you want to start a thread on parents who cannot afford to have children and why they do , please do so.

and while, DF, I find it interesting that you lived in China for 2 months and had to endure a dirt floor, well, i'll feel more sympathy when you tell me you did field work for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to get food on the table.

DF, this thread has been misleading from the start. your daughter has access to health care insurance. she isn't being obstructed from getting health insurance and is instead CHOOSING to obstruct her own access to it and deciding to not pay for it. she is 26 years old. you can no longer micromanage her and her decisions. however, you have decided to make it easy for her to make these decisions by underwriting her lifestyle. your choice. it just gets old reading your writings on these types of occurrences because you never seem to understand your part in the situation. again, your choice: but please quit blaming others for your problems with your daughter and her decisions.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Being poor in America doesn't have consequences? Oh goodness.... not even sure where to begin with that one

You don't where to begin b/c you have never been poor. Do you know how many millions of people on earth would trade for the "poor living style" here in U.S?

I've never been poor?

Oh please!...have you ever live in a house with no toilet, no running water,no electricity? if your answer is "No" then we don't need to go any further about living experiences inside a poor household. In 1965 I stayed in a village in China for 2 months...

We had an outhouse, but other than that no plumbing or electric for 4 years. I would never want to repeat that, especially in a brutal mountain winter. Luckily our family did not fall into a pattern of apathy and we worked our butts off from young ages to bring in some money, even if it came from weeding fields or working gross kitchens.

Why the hostility DF? I don't know poverty because I didn't grow up in a village in China?