How serious is this baby issue?

[kenny]

WOW What nastiness!
Absolutely astonishing.
I'm shocked!

Thanks to all who offered their kindness and help, which I will pass on.
I didn't have answers and was waiting till my SO got home to get some.

You others may continue your pig pile . . . I won't stop you or respond to you . . . Enjoy.

 

[KimberlyH]

A formula fed newborn is expected to lose 5% of it's birthweight in days immediately following birth and then return to his/her birthweight in 10-14 days. At that point the baby should gain 5-7 ounces per week over the course of the following months. The baby should have 5-7 wet diapers a day and at least one bowel movement, but typically will have more.

If the doctor was extremely concerned he/she would have labeled the baby "failure to thrive" and had him or her admitted to the hospital. Now that the mistake has been identified they have the ability to correct the problem.

I would venture to guess there won't be any long term issues as long as the resolve the problem immediately. Long term malnutrition can cause a myriad of difficulties, but many breastfed children struggle as supply and feedings are established and turn out to be healthy, happy, typical children; I can't imagine it would be any different because the baby is formula fed.

 

[Maisie]

If this is a financial issue can't you and your partner help them? You are family and this baby needs support by the sounds of it.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

You others may continue your pig pile . . . I won't stop you or respond to you . . . Enjoy.

Don't reply. Use your time to go see your family and help them out!

ETA - this isn't nastiness. It's an honest response to how YOU can make this all good for them. It shouldn't be an internet conversation, but a RL issue that can should be acted upon in RL, not on PS.

 

[JulieN]

It's really not that serious IF if it had enough to eat as a fetus, and has enough to eat later.

I imagine that having poor, uneducated parents who can't afford Internet to be a way bigger negative risk factor than temporary undernourishment.

Ummm, wow. This was the fault of EDUCATED MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS. Had they not given incorrect advice on feeding this could potentially have been a non-issue. These people could have potentially harmed their child by being diligent parents and following the doctor's advice.

There are so many things that COULD have been happening here, and none of us know enough to judge anything. Not to mention being poor doesn't generally do physiological damage. Rolling a thousand eyes.

Rolling mine right along with you. Your privilege is showing, JulieN.

Wow JulieN, You must have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

Nope, just a student of economics who is very interested in inequality and especially nutrition among the poor. Good gracious, I didn't say they were going to drop the baby, chain it to the bed, and never wash it.

What, exactly, DO you all think is the biggest indicator of a normal person being trapped in poverty? Having rich, college-educated parents?

 

[junebug17]

Kenny, I'll bet these new parents were very upset to learn their newborn lost weight. They were going by the guidelines given to them and trusted that they were accurate. My daughter lost weight (can't remember how much, but enough to cause concern with the doctor) so it was recommended I supplement nursing with formula. (I was breastfeeding only). She started gaining weight and had no problems. I thought I was doing the right things and my daughter was getting enough nourishment from me, but apparently she wasn't. It was a very upsetting time and I felt horrible, but thank goodness for those newborn check-ups!

I'm obviously not a doctor, but I think the baby will be fine. Thankfully they took their child to the doctor and got the correct information.

How about sending them a comprehensive book on baby/child care? It would be a good reference for them if other issues or concerns come up.

 

[Tuckins1]

I don't think the baby will suffer long term... If there was some worry, the baby would have been admitted to the hospital to get IV nutrients. Babies are very resilient, i'm sure he/she will be fine.

 

[kenny]

Thanks all.
This thread brings up a zillion legitimate and complicated issues.

SO is calling the mom to get some answers.
Hope she's not offended.

 

[Kaleigh]

Good I got your attention.

You can call me nasty,. I could shive a git. Serioulsy. But the matter at hand is a bigger thing than you hating on me Kenny...God it's sooooo not about you...

This baby needs formula and it's expensive. Which is why I told you about the WIC program.

Look into it. Or really be a great guy and go buy pampers and formula while figuring this all out.

 

[Munchkin]

As others have said, it partially depends on the baby's birth weight. Up to a 10% weight loss in the first few days after birth is considered "acceptable." It is never acceptable for an infant to be below birth weight at the 2 week mark. I ideally, by that time, the child will be at or above birth weight.

The poundage itself isn't where the long term concerns lie. The concerns include: did the weight loss drive up the amount of bilirubin to unsafe amounts? How out of whack are the infant's electrolytes, etc. All these can be studied in various tests I'm confident the hospital will run.

What bothers me here, is that the American Academy of Pediatrics advocates that ALL babies be seen by their pediatrician within 48 hours of hospital discharge. Why was this not done? Their pedi should have picked up on the inaccuracy at that visit and prevented this poor baby's suffering.

Also: PLEASE, ignore the well-meaning advice of others to purchase a different formula. Please leave it to the pediatrician and parents to decide what to try. Needlessly switching at this point could create new symptoms. (IE soy is notoriously constipating and these parents need to watch the number of soiled diapers)

 

[kenny]

Losing 11 oz. is not good for a newborn, and is quite a bad trend, but if the trend is righted, then I think it will be fine. I don't think we have enough info. How serious the situation is depends on the weight of the baby. If the baby is already underweight, that is really not good. If the baby was 10 lbs, the weight loss is not as serious an issue, but it is still serious in that losing 11 oz. is not normal. Babies often lose some weight the first few days after being born, but after 2 weeks, you expect them to weigh more than at birth. My baby was underweight, and the doctors were all over me to get her to add weight, which she did.

That's kind of pathetic that the hospital made that serious a mistake on something so simple. It's also unfortunate that the parents did not find out until now.

Poor kid must have been so hungry

I just got clarification/correction to what I was previously told.
The birthweight was 7 lb 3 oz.
The loss of 11 oz was at day 4 not at the two week point.
I do not know what the baby weighs today; they don't have a scale and don't go to the doctor every day.
(Don't shoot the messenger - I just made my SO call them back to get more info)

They have the baby on a formula with no dairy since lactose intolerance runs in the family.

The baby did not refuse to eat.

 

[kenny]

I can offer a somewhat related anecdotal story, but I have no real knowledge about this type of situation.

An IL's sister went several weeks past her due date, and ended up at the hospital because she couldn't feel her baby move. She got an emergency C section, and it turns out the placenta wasn't passing along enough nutrition and the baby was very malnourished. The baby made a full recovery and is now a healthy pre-teen, so hopefully there won't be any lasting effects on your niece/nephew. How scary!

Thanks T2.
That's encouraging to hear.

 

[kenny]

This is their second baby and the first one is fantastic.
She was huge and is about to turn 3 but looks like a 5 year old.
They live with the paternal grandmother and grandfather and there is LOTS of experienced parental care/advice.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, can they afford the formula? If not, is any help available?

I am forwarding them the info about the first 5 program in California.

BTW, we DO help.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, are they in California? There's a program called "First Five" that's designed specifically to help parents get their babies and children off to a good start. I'm sure it's taken a beating like all other social programs, but I think it's still around, and it might be able to offer some help.

http://www.first5california.com/?gclid=CNH41vui-KwCFQhbhwodvSlwSg

Thanks VR.
I've passed this on.

 

[kenny]

On the topic of judging poor people.


. . . gimme a break. Whatever!

 

[kenny]

I guess you are not that serious as you ask a question, but don't respond. To me this is a serious issue.

So what is it Kenny?? You want to have a thread of babies vary? Or you want to get real and get this baby some help.

I was unable to answer many questions since my SO was away and I'm not psychic.
I wanted to wait till he got home and could call them to get more answers.

BTW, what a nasty post.

Kal, when I first came to PS I thought of you as one of the nicest people on PS.

 

[kenny]

I don't understand the question? But do these folks not have "the google"? http://www.babycenter.com/0_how-to-tell-how-much-formula-your-baby-needs_9136.bc

No.

To put it bluntly they are very poor, poorly educated and have no Internet connection.
Hence, I feel some responsibility to violate my respect diversity thing and stick my nose into their business.
The question is will the baby suffer long term consequences by spending the first 2 weeks of life undernourished?

In the first post, you said that this is none of your business, but now you're staying you're going to invade their business...If you wanna help them, then I can understand doing that, but posting about them being poor isn't going to help them AT ALL ... If they're having financial difficulties, why not give them a box of diapers from Costco and some formula to help them out? As Kaleigh mentioned, there is WIC which helps with basics like formula, but WIC doesn't cover everything. Since you have the internet, why not print out WIC info for them, find them a place to sign up AND then take them on a trip to Target for them to stock up on items they can't get through organizations?! There is a lot a person can do and it's the holidays. Be generous rather than judge! This couple is a part of your family, after all, right?

Another snotty nasty post.
Sheesh!

 

[kenny]

If this is a financial issue can't you and your partner help them? You are family and this baby needs support by the sounds of it.

We ARE helping.
They live 6 hours away.
Forgive me for not quitting my job and moving in with them in their parents garage so I can supervise every move.

I'm such a bad person.

 

[kenny]

How about sending them a comprehensive book on baby/child care? It would be a good reference for them if other issues or concerns come up.

Thanks.
Good suggestion.

Can any of you experienced parents suggest a good book?

 

[Mara]

I was going to say that first time parents may not know to do anything other than what the hospital tells them. It's horrific that the hospital is giving completely incorrect information and the Dr says he has to tell them AGAIN to correct it. That could be costing some future infant their life or close to it!

But then you said that this is their 2nd child. However, as others have already said as well...a crying baby esp at day 4 doesn't just mean hunger, it can mean a lot of things and new babies often cry. So, putting a bottle into the baby's mouth everytime they cry isn't necessarily the only advice.

Anyway, I hope that they continue to visit the pedi (most pedis will start weight checks if they are concerned where you bring the baby back in a week or even a few days until they are a healthy weight and thriving) and make sure to get the right info. If you want to help I would try to make sure they can continue to get the baby the correct care to thrive.

ETA re a book, What to Expect the First Year is a good basic book for parents.

 

[kenny]

Thanks Mara for the book recommendation.

Now that I think of it, I have to make sure they can read.
No joke.
My SO's father cannot read, even in Spanish.

Uh Oh, I'm sure some pious soul is going to accuse me of being judgmental again.
Whatever.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The book Mara mentioned is good, and my daughter is also using The Baby Book (birth to 2 years) by Dr. Sears:

http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Book-Everything-Revised-Updated/dp/0316778001/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323574995&sr=1-1

I'll tell you, my daughter has used the internet a ton in the last 3 weeks since her baby was born because of breastfeeding issues. I honestly don't know what we did before the internet. Oh wait, I do know. I just quit breastfeeding my first child because I had no accessible advice and the pediatrician just said to try formula if I had further problems..big help!

We have the WIC program in my state and it is a very good thing for the people who need it!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks Mara for the book recommendation.

Now that I think of it, I have to make sure they can read.
No joke.
My SO's father cannot read, even in Spanish.

Uh Oh, I'm sure some pious soul is going to accuse me of being judgmental again.
Whatever.

If he did not have the opportunity to go to school, that is one thing. But if he is dyslexic, that can be hereditary. If they graduated from HS, they probably can read well enough to manage the baby books, though.

 

[kenny]

My SO just told me NO BOOKS on how to raise kids.
He says they'd be offended.

He's also annoyed I'm taking all this so seriously.

I do NOT understand families! (throwing my hands up)

Thank you all for the helpful suggestions.

 

[Kaleigh]

I am glad she will get the help she needs. When it comes to babies I tend to be very defensive. So I apologize for that...I just hear a baby is losing weight, they can't afford much.. I knew about the WIC program and wanted to help.

Kenny I am a good person. I just come from a place that knows how this is, and can relate...

Never judge a book by it's cover...

 

[kenny]

I am glad she will get the help she needs. When it comes to babies I tend to be very defensive. So I apologize for that...I just hear a baby is losing weight, they can't afford much.. I knew about the WIC program and wanted to help.

Kenny I am a good person. I just come from a place that knows how this is, and can relate...

Never judge a book by it's cover...

Kal, thank you.
I have given the info to my SO so he can give it to them.
I'll do my best to make sure he gives it to them.

Poor people can be proud people who refuse assistance; my sister was this way when she was a single mom.
Their wishes must be respected.
I cannot rip the baby out of their arms and I have no reason to believe they are negligent for following the hospital's instructions for four days, especially when they went back to the doctor to get the problem of crying solved on day 5.
It is now solved.

I have stayed with them several times and they have stayed with us with their first daughter, who seems quite advanced for her age.
They are MUCH more competent parents than mine were.

 

[kenny]

Here are the little monsters.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

They're beautiful children!

 

[MissStepcut]

kenny they are absolutely precious