How Does Your Garden Grow?

[Gailey]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:17:24 AM
Author: lcom
Wow! I got called in to work the night shift and look what happens! These ideas are fantastic, first off Thank you Lulu, there is catmint in there, and ditto the request to please post pics of your garden.

Gailey and Gardengloves, Thank you so much for your very kind words and input! After I read this then I had to go google a rill and partere, yes a little overwhelming! I then spent about an hour on a website about East Leach House in Glocestershire, beautiful!

I like the idea of a pond, I had been thinking about a small circle knot garden at the end of the path or maybe something with a fountain in it, I have a few issues with shape and couldn''t decide if it should be round to encourage flow of traffic around it or square to continue the square edged theme, but now I am liking the suggestion of a pond within a rectangle bed. My husband bought a bobcat a few years ago ''to clear snow you know'' well it has mostly taken up space, he has spread some dirt for me on occasion but I think he would love to dig a hole! Would you make the space the equal width as the bed at the other end? making the paths a capital I?

Wha-d-ya-know! I''m a Gloucestershire lass. Born in Gloucester itself. Can''t say I have ever been to East Leach House though.

Icom, I''d still like to see a view of the back from your deck or main viewing window if you could manage that. That way I can print it out and draw on it to give you an idea of layout.

You must have been reading up on garden design because round or moundy repeated shapes encourge the eye to move forward and encourage flow. That said, a formal garden is all about straight lines and repetition. If you Google Wisley Gardens, you will see their formal pond at the entrance and see what I mean. Similarly Burford House, Tenbury should give you a similar shot.

What ever you do on one side, must be replicated exactly in shape size and distances from the other.

If you don''t want the hassle of low clipped hedges such as in a formal knot garden, then you could anchor the beds with clipped shrubs in each of the corners (Cotoneaster would be an excellent choice for this and cheap). Korean Lilac or Palabin Lilac would also be a good choice and they would give you a shot of colour too. I have one and I clip it once a year to within an inch of it''s life after it''s flowered. I would caution against low formal hedges. Although, they really complete the look to a parterre or knot garden, where you live, you are going to be subject to winter kill from time to time and the last thing you need is part of a hedge dying off.

Ahh, a man with a bobcat, my ultimate dream - you lucky girl!

 

[Gailey]

Icom, one other thing I meant to say earlier about your side bed. Firstly, well done for getting stuff to grow in such a tough spot! Secondly, get rid of that thin strip of grass. Make the whole thing a bed. Make surre you kill it off with round-up or lift the pavers to get the root out from under it before you plant it up. Edge it with dianthus in places, it will look fabulous.

 

[packrat]

Date: 6/15/2010 9:46:37 PM
Author: Gailey
Packrat

If it interests you and you have the time, you could train to become a Master Gardener. The other advantage to this organisation is you can also approach them for advice. Master Gardeners volunteer. Ours can be found at the zoo in the summer for instance. If they cannot help you directly, they may well be able to point you in the direction of a reputable certified arborist for advice. BTW, the certified bit is important. Certified arborists know far more about tree health than just arborists. Anyone can buy a saw and call themselves an arborist. Beware.

Thanks Gailey! I think I will look into that-it sure sounds fun. Do you have to have a lot of experience/knowledge before doing that? How long does it take?

Loving all the new pictures! It makes me so happy when people take pride in their yards and homes like that! Great job everyone!

Drove by a house today and something blue made me turn my head. I didn''t see enough of them, but I''m kinda thinking they were delphiniums. They were next to a white fence and boy did they pop!

We''re pretty much out of room here if we still want to have a yard for the kids to run around in..but it''s still hard not to see beautiful colors and think "oooh I want that!"

 

[artdecogirl]

Gailey, Thank you! That bed was my first real gardening adventure and I did not realize until much later what a crappy spot it is. Stuff does not live up to its potential there but that works because of the height restriction with the overhang, plus it has the dryer vent in the corner so what is there thaws and freezes repeatedly, a large clump of iris is there and has tolerated it well. I like the idea about the side bed, we had thought of that, I think it was said earlier in the thread how grass will grow in your garden bed but trying to grow a patch on the lawn takes so much effort! This grass just does not grow well, there is a strip on each side of the walkway and the other side has evergreens and a bench alongside the garage, that other side is all shade all day and we had thought to do hostas but hostas, even varigated would not do on the bed side, that gets hot afternoon sun, I like things to match, what would work well in shade and sun? I would not have thought dianthus, but thinking about it, that would look great! Then I would not have to mow those strips. And then not so much grass creeping into the beds, I like it.

My batteries are dead, I will try to take a pic from the deck in the am, it just started raining here again.

Soberguys pic of the maple with the roses in front is awesome, is the maple a ornamental tree? it has great color,

 

[Gailey]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:03:22 PM
Author: packrat
Thanks Gailey! I think I will look into that-it sure sounds fun. Do you have to have a lot of experience/knowledge before doing that? How long does it take?

Loving all the new pictures! It makes me so happy when people take pride in their yards and homes like that! Great job everyone!

Drove by a house today and something blue made me turn my head. I didn''t see enough of them, but I''m kinda thinking they were delphiniums. They were next to a white fence and boy did they pop!

We''re pretty much out of room here if we still want to have a yard for the kids to run around in..but it''s still hard not to see beautiful colors and think ''oooh I want that!''

No more than about 6-9 months I should think. I know that the courses vary from area to area. Classes are generally once a week or so. There may be an opportunity to do extension classes these days as well, although I don''t recommend that. Feedback from a group is invaluable.

Oooh, I know what you mean. I am completely out of space in my little patch, but the list of things to grow once I move to Ontario grows by the day! I think about 25 acres or so ought to suffice this time around!

 

[Gailey]

Date: 6/17/2010 7:17:19 PM
Author: lcom


Gailey, Thank you! That bed was my first real gardening adventure and I did not realize until much later what a crappy spot it is. Stuff does not live up to its potential there but that works because of the height restriction with the overhang, plus it has the dryer vent in the corner so what is there thaws and freezes repeatedly, a large clump of iris is there and has tolerated it well. I like the idea about the side bed, we had thought of that, I think it was said earlier in the thread how grass will grow in your garden bed but trying to grow a patch on the lawn takes so much effort! This grass just does not grow well, there is a strip on each side of the walkway and the other side has evergreens and a bench alongside the garage, that other side is all shade all day and we had thought to do hostas but hostas, even varigated would not do on the bed side, that gets hot afternoon sun, I like things to match, what would work well in shade and sun? I would not have thought dianthus, but thinking about it, that would look great! Then I would not have to mow those strips. And then not so much grass creeping into the beds, I like it.

My batteries are dead, I will try to take a pic from the deck in the am, it just started raining here again.

Soberguys pic of the maple with the roses in front is awesome, is the maple a ornamental tree? it has great color,

Stuff that does well in full sun is not going to do well in full shade, simply doesn''t happen. That said, I have seen Hostas growing in full afternoon sun. These days some even specify "tolerate sun", such as Sum and Substance. My advice is to try one. I''ll take another boo at your side garden and see if I can come up with some matchy shade alternatives. Post a picture of the opposite side.

I think you would have more luck with Alchemilla Mollis (Ladies Mantle). It will grow in sun and in shade. I doubt they grow to be the same or perform identically though.

You could cheat and add Siberian Iris to the shady side, although they prefer a somewhat damper spot than the German Iris. It will have to be a bit of trial and error I think. If you can''t match the plants identically, try and match the overall leaf shape for elements of synergy.

BTW, the link to the ladie''s mantle is a really good info site for your zone, so keep it bookmarked.

As to the Japanese Maple, furged-abou-tit! You could however try an Acer pseudosieboldianum (Korean Maple). Green instead of the red. I have two of them growing quite successfully, although some years they suffer winterkill. They need to be in a sheltered spot though, not out in the open.

 

[gardengloves]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:17:24 AM
Author: lcom
Wow! I got called in to work the night shift and look what happens! These ideas are fantastic, first off Thank you Lulu, there is catmint in there, and ditto the request to please post pics of your garden.


Gailey and Gardengloves, Thank you so much for your very kind words and input! After I read this then I had to go google a rill and partere, yes a little overwhelming! I then spent about an hour on a website about East Leach House in Glocestershire, beautiful!


I like the idea of a pond, I had been thinking about a small circle knot garden at the end of the path or maybe something with a fountain in it, I have a few issues with shape and couldn''t decide if it should be round to encourage flow of traffic around it or square to continue the square edged theme, but now I am liking the suggestion of a pond within a rectangle bed. My husband bought a bobcat a few years ago ''to clear snow you know'' well it has mostly taken up space, he has spread some dirt for me on occasion but I think he would love to dig a hole! Would you make the space the equal width as the bed at the other end? making the paths a capital I?

Wow, ideas are flowing and this is moving fast. I love Gailey''s idea of two more beds with either a circle pond or rectangular pond ( my thought, wading, reflecting pond, oh lord a fountain in the middle ) in the middle, so symmetrical and totally ENGLISH and formal. Your land is beautiful, and I love what you have going on with the beds. I just love that whole circle in the square mathematical framing of garden beds. Wish I could do it - take a bit of land.

There are no hogs when it comes to pictures of gardens!

 

[packrat]

Date: 6/17/2010 7:51:39 PM
Author: Gailey

Date: 6/17/2010 5:03:22 PM

Author: packrat

Thanks Gailey! I think I will look into that-it sure sounds fun. Do you have to have a lot of experience/knowledge before doing that? How long does it take?


Loving all the new pictures! It makes me so happy when people take pride in their yards and homes like that! Great job everyone!

Drove by a house today and something blue made me turn my head. I didn''t see enough of them, but I''m kinda thinking they were delphiniums. They were next to a white fence and boy did they pop!


We''re pretty much out of room here if we still want to have a yard for the kids to run around in..but it''s still hard not to see beautiful colors and think ''oooh I want that!''

No more than about 6-9 months I should think. I know that the courses vary from area to area. Classes are generally once a week or so. There may be an opportunity to do extension classes these days as well, although I don''t recommend that. Feedback from a group is invaluable.


Oooh, I know what you mean. I am completely out of space in my little patch, but the list of things to grow once I move to Ontario grows by the day! I think about 25 acres or so ought to suffice this time around!

Cool-I''ll call the Extension office and check into it!

I''m to the point now that I think you know..the front yard isn''t that big, and the kids mostly play in the back yard..I *could* add some stuff to the front! I''ve actually been laying things out in my mind when I go to bed at night, thinking how I would do it. JD might want to string me up by my toes tho. Still, it would look awesome!

I used to go on "tours" w/my parents at their house and point out all the things I wanted-never knew the names for most of it, so "That bright orange stuff, those dark purple flowers, and the spikey electric blue deals" is what I would ask for hahaha.

Dangit, that reminds me I was going to find pictures of their place during the glory days when we actually gave tours and such.

 

[packrat]

Ha, I knew I had some old ones here. The back of most of them say they were developed in 1996. I only did 2. This one dad took standing on the roof of the house. It shows the ditch bed (they''re all named), and if you can see the mailbox which is not quite straight back from the burn barrel, it extends to the right about the same distance as it does to the left. You can see the bed down one side of the driveway..there''s one on the other side too. The trees on the left died, so they replanted smaller ones.

 

[packrat]

Hmph..hard to see when I have to size them so small.
This started out as one bed. It ran in a U shape, and we call it the smiley face. Then dad put a bed in the middle w/lupines-dad calls it the acid bed, I call it the square bed. Then he started digging up the grass between those two beds, and that part is the filled in smiley face. We put in the arbor and a walkway, and that was where I planned on getting married-but everything got so filled in, we would''ve only been able to have 4 guests or put everyone on the roof.

We each have our own tree-the lovely on the right is mine. My brother''s is the one that looks like it''s in the middle. Mom''s is on the left, dad''s isn''t in the picture. Notice mine is kicking ass. There was a bald eagle in it last year. My tree rocks.

 

[packrat]

I *think* they have some of those "glamour shots" where a plane flies over head and takes pictures of your place-I''ll have mom check b/c then you can see all the beds.

Anyways, this is where my love all started. Dad put in one bed like 20 years ago and everything exploded from there. But, it''s not the same as it was before..he''s taken out a lot of stuff b/c they don''t have time (inclination I say) to take care of it. Still, it was really amazing before. People used to leave us notes in the mailbox and stick them in the door, how they were passing by, and knew someone who knew of the place and so they had to drive out and see it-can''t see it from the highway or the blacktop, so you have to go out of your way..funny to come home and have strangers wandering around your yard!

 

[gardengloves]

Packrat,

thanks so much for sharing your dad''s garden. Amazing. I was searching around last night to find your before and after yard thread to beg you to post some pictures of the gardens you grew up with, woke up and found them here. No wonder strangers wandered around looking- I would have bought tickets to see this. I just love looking at these, if you have more... please,please. please ...

 

[artdecogirl]

Packrat, Wow! It must be genetic. That garden is lovely, are they in Iowa also? You guys got more snow then we did this year I think. Your parents gardens are beautiful, as are yours, I bet the view from the air is amazing with all the different colors. Did you get to pick what kind of tree you wanted?

 

[Gailey]

Date: 6/18/2010 12:05:50 AM
Author: packrat


Cool-I''ll call the Extension office and check into it!

I''m to the point now that I think you know..the front yard isn''t that big, and the kids mostly play in the back yard..I *could* add some stuff to the front! I''ve actually been laying things out in my mind when I go to bed at night, thinking how I would do it. JD might want to string me up by my toes tho. Still, it would look awesome!

I used to go on ''tours'' w/my parents at their house and point out all the things I wanted-never knew the names for most of it, so ''That bright orange stuff, those dark purple flowers, and the spikey electric blue deals'' is what I would ask for hahaha.

Dangit, that reminds me I was going to find pictures of their place during the glory days when we actually gave tours and such.

Packrat,

Before you undertake any major changes in your front garden, get a hold of this book: Front Yard Gardens by Liz Primeau. It''s an awesome book.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 6/18/2010 12:32:22 AM
Author: packrat
Hmph..hard to see when I have to size them so small.
This started out as one bed. It ran in a U shape, and we call it the smiley face. Then dad put a bed in the middle w/lupines-dad calls it the acid bed, I call it the square bed. Then he started digging up the grass between those two beds, and that part is the filled in smiley face. We put in the arbor and a walkway, and that was where I planned on getting married-but everything got so filled in, we would''ve only been able to have 4 guests or put everyone on the roof.

We each have our own tree-the lovely on the right is mine. My brother''s is the one that looks like it''s in the middle. Mom''s is on the left, dad''s isn''t in the picture. Notice mine is kicking ass. There was a bald eagle in it last year. My tree rocks.

Great pictures. And no escaping it Packy, it''s in your blood every bit that it''s in mine!

What does it look like today? More pictures please.

 

[gardengloves]

Date: 6/18/2010 4:47:06 PM
Author: Gailey

Date: 6/18/2010 12:05:50 AM

Author: packrat



Cool-I''ll call the Extension office and check into it!


I''m to the point now that I think you know..the front yard isn''t that big, and the kids mostly play in the back yard..I *could* add some stuff to the front! I''ve actually been laying things out in my mind when I go to bed at night, thinking how I would do it. JD might want to string me up by my toes tho. Still, it would look awesome!


I used to go on ''tours'' w/my parents at their house and point out all the things I wanted-never knew the names for most of it, so ''That bright orange stuff, those dark purple flowers, and the spikey electric blue deals'' is what I would ask for hahaha.


Dangit, that reminds me I was going to find pictures of their place during the glory days when we actually gave tours and such.

Packrat,


Before you undertake any major changes in your front garden, get a hold of this book: Front Yard Gardens by Liz Primeau. It''s an awesome book.

I have that book, Front Yard Gardens - Liz Primeau. Love it.

We have massive beds in the front, as do most of our neighbors, but mine has all sort of bulbs and and changes constantly. Most of our neighbors have the evergreen bushes and traditional foundation plantings, but I use ours as a garden bed and constantly fuss with it. Takes a lot of work to keep it looking neat when its in the front, sometimes feel like a slave to the garden, but I do love messing about. I have these two bright yellow finches who perch on the flowers, and a few cardinals...these guys seem like our plantings.

We want to put in a bed to attract humming birds, doing research to find out what kind of flowers they like. I don''t have any around. The best thing we added was a fountain, which the birds come to around 4 o''clock for a bath. In this heat its nice to know there is a refreshing place for the winged ones.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 6/18/2010 5:40:32 PM
Author: gardengloves


I have that book, Front Yard Gardens - Liz Primeau. Love it.

We have massive beds in the front, as do most of our neighbors, but mine has all sort of bulbs and and changes constantly. Most of our neighbors have the evergreen bushes and traditional foundation plantings, but I use ours as a garden bed and constantly fuss with it. Takes a lot of work to keep it looking neat when its in the front, sometimes feel like a slave to the garden, but I do love messing about. I have these two bright yellow finches who perch on the flowers, and a few cardinals...these guys seem like our plantings.

We want to put in a bed to attract humming birds, doing research to find out what kind of flowers they like. I don't have any around. The best thing we added was a fountain, which the birds come to around 4 o'clock for a bath. In this heat its nice to know there is a refreshing place for the winged ones.

Ah, but is yours personally signed by Liz herself? I shouldn't brag

I didn't actually get to meet her, she came and gave a talk to a group at the zoo here in town a number of years ago. I am very good friends with the organiser, and as I couldn't attend (My Dad had just died in the UK), he got me a signed copy of her book. I would say it's one of my top 5 favourite garden books.

Now, hummingbirds. Just off the top of my head (and I don't think I know your zone GG)
Crocosmia Lucifer
Penstemon Barbatus
Thunbergia alatus This is where I saw them at my house (which reminds me, I must get and plant them)
Mandevilla

I'll do some more research later, the carpet estimator is here!

 

[artdecogirl]

Date: 6/17/2010 8:50:04 PM
Author: gardengloves

Date: 6/17/2010 11:17:24 AM
Author: lcom
Wow! I got called in to work the night shift and look what happens! These ideas are fantastic, first off Thank you Lulu, there is catmint in there, and ditto the request to please post pics of your garden.


Gailey and Gardengloves, Thank you so much for your very kind words and input! After I read this then I had to go google a rill and partere, yes a little overwhelming! I then spent about an hour on a website about East Leach House in Glocestershire, beautiful!


I like the idea of a pond, I had been thinking about a small circle knot garden at the end of the path or maybe something with a fountain in it, I have a few issues with shape and couldn''t decide if it should be round to encourage flow of traffic around it or square to continue the square edged theme, but now I am liking the suggestion of a pond within a rectangle bed. My husband bought a bobcat a few years ago ''to clear snow you know'' well it has mostly taken up space, he has spread some dirt for me on occasion but I think he would love to dig a hole! Would you make the space the equal width as the bed at the other end? making the paths a capital I?

Wow, ideas are flowing and this is moving fast. I love Gailey''s idea of two more beds with either a circle pond or rectangular pond ( my thought, wading, reflecting pond, oh lord a fountain in the middle ) in the middle, so symmetrical and totally ENGLISH and formal. Your land is beautiful, and I love what you have going on with the beds. I just love that whole circle in the square mathematical framing of garden beds. Wish I could do it - take a bit of land.

There are no hogs when it comes to pictures of gardens!

Thank you Gardengloves,and you are right, these ideas are amazing! I am off this weekend so I need to get out there with some string and sticks and map some things out to see what works, then I will have to tell DH what I have in store for him, maybe on fathers day? hehe

 

[Gailey]

Here you go GG, everything you need to know about attracting Hummingbirds!

http://www.hummingbirds.net/attract.html

 

[gardengloves]

Okay, so I planted these hollyhock (sp?) bulbs last year, in the front yard garden. they were called Peaches and Cream hollyhock. I couldn''t wait.

Deer nipped them at the bulb, and nothing grew. This year another crop started to come up, again, the deer nipped it off as stalks came up , but a few stalks managed to survive. BTW- this is supposed to be a deer resistant plant, which means nothing in PA. Anyway, I sprayed every single day with deer repellant and now , I have buds!! these babies are three feet tall and starting to open. I am besides myself and had to share.

 

[gardengloves]

also planted these miniature hollyhocks which just opened ... also in front yard...

 

[gardengloves]

Date: 6/18/2010 6:23:05 PM
Author: Gailey
Here you go GG, everything you need to know about attracting Hummingbirds!


http://www.hummingbirds.net/attract.html

Thanks Gailey, just checked the site out - I have some trumpets on side of house so maybe they will come, but none of the other recommended flowers - but these guys deserve a bed of their own. I''m taking notes... , the good news, my husband has made this a top priority.. he just loves these little guys - so we may see some action.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 6/18/2010 6:28:24 PM
Author: gardengloves
Okay, so I planted these hollyhock (sp?) bulbs last year, in the front yard garden. they were called Peaches and Cream hollyhock. I couldn''t wait.

Deer nipped them at the bulb, and nothing grew. This year another crop started to come up, again, the deer nipped it off as stalks came up , but a few stalks managed to survive. BTW- this is supposed to be a deer resistant plant, which means nothing in PA. Anyway, I sprayed every single day with deer repellant and now , I have buds!! these babies are three feet tall and starting to open. I am besides myself and had to share.

GG

Hollyhocks are Biennials. So if you want them next year, don''t cut them down until they have set seed. If I were you, I would try and buy some more that are in their first year of growth this year. Sometimes the garden centre won''t know which year of growth they are, so if it starts to send up a flower stalk, cut it off and hopefully it will return next year and flower for you. The seeds from this years flowers will only produce plants with leaves next year, so if you want a succession of flowers from year to year, then you need to make sure for the first couple of years you keep putting in new ones.

I am not sure if they come true from seed either, so buy a couple of different varieties and you might end up growing your own hybrids. The other thing is the new plants next year may not be in the place you want them, so you will need to carefully dig them up and transplant them.

The best deer repellant I have found is called Plantskydd

 

[packrat]

Thanks for the kind words about mom and dad''s place everyone! I called mom tonight and asked if she''d hunt around for some more pictures before they come in tomorrow. We''re shingling the house, and everyone bailed on us today so I ended up on the roof for 6 hours helping! JD was getting irritated w/me I think b/c I have a fear of ladders/heights, so he had to help me up and down. Once the back bricking is done in a month or so, I told JD I want to do some pics from the roof!

lcom, yep we''re all in IA. We had over 50" of snow, and it''s been raining constantly so far this Spring, so everything has just completely taken off. We dug up some hostas that were under some bigger ones, and it left some space between the bigger ones-this was a week ago, and the space is gone now!! It''s unreal. This is by far the happiest we''ve been w/our place! We were young, I think I was 4?? when we planted "our" trees. We got our picture taken every year w/our tree even!

Ohhhh my word the cover of that book about gave me heart failure it''s so beautiful! I would SO love to do something like that in our front yard! I showed JD and he said it would be too "busy". I don''t think it would be tho. It''s not a huge amount of space and if you have an area to walk so you can get in there to weed etc..dangit I think it would look awesome! I''d finally have room for the pretty "whatsits" that I don''t know the names of at mom and dad''s. Whatever, I''m going to keep working on him and I''m getting that book!

I saved the link about attracting hummingbirds too..do butterflies like some of the same things?

 

[Gailey]

Well it''s back to work for Gailey today. It''s 7:40 am and the sun is high in the sky. So having sat around for 4 day, now I''ve got to go and make up for it. I''ll take the camera wit me and see what''s looking good.

Happy gardening folks!

 

[packrat]

Few more of mom and dad's place. This is the long bed-we're pretty original with the names right? This started out as one bed b/t two trees and kept getting added to. This is from 98 I believe, right at the start of Spring. Dad and I spent a lot of hours planting all the daffy and tulip bulbs, in all the beds, not just this one. The picture is so old, there is actually a bed called the "final bed" (which it was sooo not) that, if you can see the branchy sprigs sticking up from the grass, those are rows of specimen lilacs and roses, and the final bed is now b/t those and the long bed. It's a bed of iris-was all kinds of funky crazy colors, but something got into it and killed most of them.

ETA: forgot to add that they have it so everything runs in cycles, so that when these are done blooming, something else is starting and there's always something going on in the beds.

 

[packrat]

This one is more tulips/daffys..you can see the smiley face/filled in smiley face, and the south side of the driveway.

 

[packrat]

This is the poop bed. This one was my idea. (not the stuff in it, just the fun shape of it and the whole adding another bed thing) We took the tractor and got a load of cattle manure from my grandparents pasture. Can see part of the windbreak in the back, and the specimen lilacs.

 

[artdecogirl]

GG, please show us a pic of those open, (hollyhocks) they look like they will be awesome. Well worth your work.

 

[gardengloves]

thanks Icom,

The hollyocks are opening a bit more. These were supposed to be peaches and cream color, but turned shocking pink. These guys are around 3 and half feet tall, survived deer nipping off buds, been sprayed to high heaven with deer repellant, and are just starting to open. Snapped a pic as it was starting to rain.. the relentless lilies are in background