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Here''s my story, sad but true . . .

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DoubleB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
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43

Once upon a time, I was an idiot. Not too long ago, apparently. OK, 2 weeks ago, before I knew about PS. Here’s the short version of what happened.


I bought a stone from a mall store. Never in a gazillion years would I think I''d make that statement. Don''t even ask how it happened.

Anyway, I was skeptical, but the salesman showed me the EGL International Cert (I know, I know, don''t laugh – if only I knew then what I know now) – 1.92c, D color, SI-1, ideal cut, ideal proportions, ideal symmetry (it said all that in the Cert). All this for only 13K!!!!!

Now, I knew from the online searching that I had done that this was an incredible price for a stone of that quality. I told the salesman that I didn’t want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, so what’s the catch here?


He laughed and assured me that there was none – all the usual salesman BS and I fell for it. Business is slow, he’d rather make less profit now and have a new customer for life, blah, blah.


I told him that I had heard that EGL was a little “liberal” with their ratings. He assured me that was just sour grapes from those who did not carry EGL stones, that he had GIA stones as well (but of course not that fit what I was looking for), that EGL could not continue in business throughout the world if they really weren’t on the up and up, blah, blah. He said even if the stone is “only” E and SI-2, it is still a great deal. He showed me the Rap sheets.


OK, you can all stop laughing at me now.


Not only that, but his store had an arrangement with Wells Fargo and I could apply for 12 months “interest free, payment free” financing. And, he asked if I had any friends outside of California, because he could ship it them and they could ship it to me, and I’d thereby save about $1,000 in sales tax.


I took the bait. I swallowed the hook, the line, the sinker, the rod, the reel, the gaffing hook, etc. No wonder I have indigestion.


To continue . . . while waiting for the stone to arrive, I discovered PS. And I got worried. So, when the stone arrived, I made an appointment with the San Diego Gemological Lab (is it ok to mention them on PS?), which I’d learned somewhere was a small, one-man operation, with integrity. Besides, I needed an appraisal for insurance, which he would perform for a fee of $95.


I met with him yesterday. He was all business. He took the stone and the Cert, looked at the plot and then at the stone, and even before putting it under the scope said there was no way this was SI-1. Gee, that made me feel good! From his tone, I somehow knew it wasn’t VS-2 either! He did NOT ask me what I had paid until after he was all through with his analysis and told me what he thought.


He went through all his tests and processes while I sat there, let me look at it under the high powered microscope, and explained the problems he was having with what was on the Cert. As the Cert referenced a laser inscribed number on the stone, he confirmed that it was indeed the same stone. He showed me where the Cert had failed to plot a feather that he considered significant, both in size and location. He said that the stone was nearly an I-1, but that he could justify it as SI-2, but no higher. He disagreed with the D color, and rated it E. He said that the girdle was not “very thin to medium” but was “very thin to thick”- way too “wavy” he said. He said that a stone with “ideal symmetry” would show sharp points that lined up with each other – which this stone did not have. In his view, this was a good cut, but not an ideal cut, which is what the comment on the cert had said.


He showed me a black book, similar to a Kelly blue book for cars, and said this is the real data that jewelers use when they purchase diamonds from each other. Not rap sheets. Of course jewelers are entitled to make a profit, and he told me that mark ups vary as follows: 10-15% on the internet, 25-35% at a free standing bricks and mortar store, and 45-85% at a mall store.


Bottom line – my diamond has a replacement value equal to what I paid – but it was not what I was told I was purchasing.


I told him I was going to seek a refund. I went back to the store and told the manager what had happened, showed him my new “independent” report, and demanded a refund. I said, “Look, it may be worth what I paid for it, but that’s not the issue. I didn’t want a stone of this quality – maybe I don’t want to pay can’t afford a stone that is truly He wasn’t going to oblige me. He wanted to know what my lab examiner’s credentials were. Fortunately, he had a page of credentials included in his report. I told the store manager, “Tell you what- send this stone to either AGS or GIA. If it comes back graded the same, I’ll keep it. If not, you give me back my money.”


He said, “Oh, I know it won’t come back the same – one grade will be higher and one will be lower”. I said, “Really? Well it can’t go any higher than D, and I sincerely doubt its going up to VS-2!”


Well, he took the stone and agreed to send it GIA. He said that it’ll be up to the owner what happens after it comes back from GIA.


I went home and wrote a letter to Wells Fargo, telling them I much of the foregoing, and that inasmuch as I had been duped by the store that arranged credit through them, I did not intend to pay for the stone, which is no longer in my possession.


Stay tuned . . .


Doubleb
 

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Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
4,255
Hi, DoubleB....welcome...

Wow....thanks for sharing your cautionary tale. I''ll definitely be "staying tuned" to see how it all works out...

thanks!
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VuittonGal

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
375
Welcome to PS! I can''t wait to hear what happens with the GIA appraisal. Definitely keep us posted!
 

AndyRosse

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
4,363
Wow, well hopefully in the end everything will work out... But keep us updated!! Goodluck!
 

windowshopper

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
2,023
my 2 cents----------gia can take 3 weeks..........i would write a complete and detailed letter outliining everything and asking for a full refund. say in the letter that you will re-purchase the stone for the same price if it comes back from GIA with adequate specs. send to the store and wells fargo and your credit card or whatever.............dont let time drag on it will only hurt you. plus if the jeweler stands by hus word he will refund you in good failth until such time as you receive the GIA cert...........another thought --you will need to verify that the GIA cert they provide you is legit and matches the stone which will cost you more time and money
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
Sounds to me like you were in the office of Thom Underwood.

He is quite professional and very proficient in my experience. Plus his wife is one heck of a dancer! I know them both from meeting them years ago at the Tucson Jewelry show and Thom is highly thought of by many in the trade. He is very active in the Accredited Gemologist Association and is constantly organizing continuing education classes. I last saw him this June at the AGS laboratory office in Las Vegas where he had arranged for a class to be given. It was during one of the afternoon sessions of the class that I first saw Peter Yantzer explain the ASET tool. (I was only there for that session as a guest, not a member of the entire class. Paul Antwerp, Gary Holloway, The Denver Appraiser and I were there as guests if I remember correctly, but I probably left someone out.)

Do keep us posted and if you go back to see Thom, please tell him that Wink says hello.

Wink
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,962
Hope I''ve read this carefully enough...

You say: " I told the store manager, “Tell you what- send this stone to either AGS or GIA. If it comes back graded the same, I’ll keep it. If not, you give me back my money.”

As a matter of due diligence, I wouldn''t let your good nature or naivete get in the way of the store''s general business practices. Get a friend to call them and ask what their standard return policy is, unless this is all old news to you. On the reasonable chance that anyone would ordinarily be able to return, at will, a purchase, within a required period period of time, and you''d met those requirement...go to full stop. Just request they abide by their normal policies, and get a refund.

Unless you know such a policy either does not exist, or your time had elapsed. Otherwise, don''t make this fun. Unless you still want to actually consider it, which you may, in which case -- nevermind.

Regards,
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,170
Date: 8/4/2005 8:40:41 AM
Author:DoubleB

Anyway, I was skeptical, but the salesman showed me the EGL International Cert (I know, I know, don''t laugh – if only I knew then what I know now) – 1.92c, D color, SI-1, ideal cut, ideal proportions, ideal symmetry (it said all that in the Cert). All this for only 13K!!!!!


.......

Bottom line – my diamond has a replacement value equal to what I paid – but it was not what I was told I was purchasing.
.......

I said, “Look, it may be worth what I paid for it, but that’s not the issue. I didn’t want a stone of this quality – ........I told the store manager, “Tell you what- send this stone to either AGS or GIA. If it comes back graded the same, I’ll keep it. If not, you give me back my money.”

DoubleB.....here''s the problem I see with this arrangement. GIA grading reports don''t grade cut (at least not yet), so there is no way they can dispute the original EGL grading which claims it''s an ideal cut.

That goes much more to "quality'' than color or clarity. Another point: Color/clarity is much more subjective than cut measurements. Qualified appraisers could disagree on color, but would be less likely to disagree (substantially) about cut proportions/measurements.

If you wanted an "ideal" cut stone, as in AGS0, than you should insist on getting that.
 

DoubleB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
43
Ira,

Thanks for your suggestion. Trust me, this is not my idea of fun. The store''s "policy" is to give you full purchase price credit toward another item - i.e., the standard "you can always upgrade." I''m at the point where I wouldn''t buy anything from these people.

Nevertheless, I''m going to follow your suggestion, and have somebody call them and see what they say.

The only reason I told them I''d keep it if it came back the same grade is because I have confidence in SD Gem Labs that the stone is less than represented.

I went and looked at the paperwork. Under comments on the EGL Cert, it says, "EXCELLENT IDEAL CUT'' - The quality of the cut of this diamond achieves excellence in symmetry and proportion, thus obtaninig the optimatl dispersion of light and brilliance.

SD Labs said, in effect, no way.

For those interested, the measurements on the EGL were as follows:

Depth 62.1%
Table 53%
Crown Height 15%
Pavilion Depth 44%
Girdle Very think to Medium

SD Gem Labs felt that the symmetry was "good", not "excellent" and that the polish was "good", not "very good"

SD Gem Labs also found the girdle to be Very thin to thick, rather than as above.

double b
 

MissAva

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
8,230
I tried to run your numbers through the HCA and it said that the girdle was overly thick or that you had enterd the incorrect numbers....Plus a 53% seems awfully small to me.
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DoubleB

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
43

Thanks for your input, Matatora. I''m guessing that one uses the HCA, if you don''t have the angle measurements, you have to change the default settings for crown and pavilion from "angle" to "percentage". Then it comes up with a score of 2.7.


And, using the SD Gem Lab''s more precise number for the table (53.8, instead of simply 53), the score drops to 3.1.
 
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