Helping a man move from "me" to "we" - any advice? sorry - long

[Pandora II]

I've been a bit stressed for the last few days about a current situation.

My FI has requested redundancy from his current job and they have granted it - he's currently on 3 months "gardening leave" while he "looks at other positions within the company" and before the redundancy kicks in.

The day after he got the leave he started working (for free) for an amazing charity that works in the developing world. It is a great job and although a small company the staff there are very highly qualified and are very interesting, bright people. He is finally looking happy and fulfilled after a couple of years of being really very unhappy.

This company have offered him a job interview next week for a permanent position. The potential problem is that salaries in this field are not really comparable with those in the sector he currently works in.

I will be 36 when we marry next year and want to have a first baby pretty quickly after that. Maternity pay in the UK will mean I take a huge cut in salary for a year. We live a long way from any relatives so even after I go back to work, childcare is going to be expensive and my salary will be needed for that - so he will need to cover mortgage and bills out of his.

Up till now I always thought we were totally on the same page - we wanted to offer our children a certain standard of living, the option for private education and we would need to buy a bigger house, which in London is $$$$$.

I was a bit shocked to discover that FI doesn't really seem to get that decisions like changing jobs and dropping a fair way in salary is a decision in which I should have a say. I ended up emailing him details of UK maternity leave payments just so he knew how the land lies.

I feel a complete cow for almost saying he can't take a job he loves unless it pays more than X. I have spent too many years of my life scrimping to get by and the last 2 years I finally have the sort of life I want, and it scares me that he isn't seeing this or is but isn't discussing it with me.

I am hugely conflict avoidant and so it took days of mulling it over to finally approach the subject tonight. I have suggested we have some premarital counselling to make sure we actually have the same values and don't just think we do.

He's agreed - but not particularly enthusiastically. He feels I need to control the future too much whereas he's happy to let things happen. He also seems to find the idea that we should plan scenarios in advance odd - his way would be to announce we have x situation and work our way round it afterwards.

I feel like a LIW again - I have a life plan, but instead of living it I am waiting for him to make a move that will decide it without knowing all the details in advance, if that makes sense.

He is 3 years younger than I am and I am his first serious relationship. (His parents divorced when he was 14 so he doesn't really have any rolemodels for good marriages - unlike me.)

What else can I do to help him from "me" to "we" and am I horrible for being so demanding.

Sorry this is so long...

 

[neatfreak]

I think counseling is really the best bet besides trying to have a sit down non-threatening talk together and hash out what is right for you guys as a couple. But it IS important to make sure you guys are ultimately on the same page before tying the knot. $ and kids are two things that married couples fight about A LOT, and probably ultimately big reasons for divorce too. It's not just about moving from "me" to "we", it's about being on the same "we" page!

And you are NOT being a cow, you have your own expectations and so does he. The question is, can you make them work together somehow or not? Are you both willing to compromise a little?

Hope everything settles down soon for you!

 

[luckystar112]

You poor thing.

I think counseling is a good idea too. My BF sounds a lot like yours in the way that he just likes to go with the flow. I''m more of a planner like you. The difference is I''m 24 and you''re 36, so I''m sure it''s important for you to have a baby within the very near future.

Could this all be taken care of if he ends up finding a better job within the company he already works for? Are there any more fullfilling positions that he can take? Or maybe he can try to negotiate with the new job, and let them know his goals for the future.

 

[Mara]

when i read posts like this i am a little curious....you have been together a fair amount of time right? and you are engaged right? and you know 'how he is' right? so i guess my Q is... how did think you were on the same page then...are you really surprised.

in that other thread where that gal told her fiance he can't have a bach party and he told her okay no wedding...i was thinking the same thing...like how does someone get so far as to get engaged to someone and then be so far off on judgement or be so surprised about something in their character or life choices? that is a little surprising to me. i guess i always feel like by the time a couple gets engaged, aka agrees to tie their lives together for all eternity, all of this stuff should be out on the table, pretty much laid bare?? maybe i am old-fashioned. hehee.

so that said....to me the whole 'me to we' takes years....it surely did for both of us. especially if the guy has thought 'me' for a long time, it can take even longer to move to the 'we' mentality. but engaged, yeah i would think that your opinion would be at the top of the list. i definitely don't think you are wrong to say 'hey you need to consider XYZ because we are going to be in this together'...and i hear you about not wanting to squash his dreams but on the other hand not wanting to have to return to counting pennies because that's not fun either.

what greg does right now is far from his dream job, in fact he professes to hate it though he's total typeA so i think he secretly likes the torture. but it makes a lot of money, and he got an MBA to basically do what he does now and even climb higher on the ladder. what he says he wants to do would require even more schooling and probably a few drops down the totem pole and the industry is totally unstable. he's not impractical so he would really not consider it overall, i think it's more like a 'daydream' about what if....but i know he thinks about it. neither of us wants to make 'sacrifices' anymore, we did that on the up and coming path in our lives and we both are fairly comfortable right now in our careers. and we are more thinking about retirement than a change in career kind of thing. but i can imagine the quandry we'd be in should his perfect job come up and have it be 1/2 of his salary or something similar. knowing him, he wouldn't even want to consider it and i'd probably have the same feeling you are now about being torn for him.

tough situation definitely...i think you are approaching it the right way...but i would think long and hard about just how 'on the same page' you really are..and make sure that while you are working out this issue, you try to suss out any other issues like this where you may not be on the same page...aka kids, where you are going to live in the future, what is the plan for retirement etc etc. is there flexibility on your timelines at all so he can maybe do this for a while and work his way up a ladder?

talk about it now for sure, especially if you do get the counseling. but as for the me to we, in my opinion that can take years, especially for guys who have been on their own for a long time and had to be fairly independent in their lives. good luck!

 

[Po10472]

Life does not always go to plan as you thought and this doesn''t mean that you don''t have the same values. Being made redunant is a huge dent on an individuals pride, I know I''ve been made redundant twice. My husband has been out of work heaps of times. It stops you in your tracks and makes you reassess what you want in life, it makes you reconsider your ''plan''. How happy were you in your job, how secure were you, are you willing to put yourself back in that position, etc, etc. It sounds to me like you FI is loving the change in job and he''s happy, yes it doesn''t pay as much, but he''s happy. I think you both need to look at how these types of events alter your plans, you just make new plans.........that''s how it goes. Situations like these test your relationship and you learn things you didn''t know about your partner and yourself.

Also, the maternity and paternity rights are continually changing in the UK so by the time you are ready to have a baby maternity pay could have increased. As for childcare issues, with an increase in work life balance policies and workplaces changing to accommodate this, between you and your fiance you could probably look after your child between you with minimal childcare. The law is changing to allow fathers to become more actively involved in the first years of a childs life.

Going for counselling is a personal choice, if I had to do that every time my DH and I weren''t on the same page, I''d be moving a shrink into the spare bedroom!!!

 

[strmrdr]

hmmm well from a guy''s point of view...
future hubbys happiness or material things....
So do you want him unhappy so you can have your plan?
That sounds pretty self centered too me.
I''d say hit the road if it was me.
(now that your thinking go talk too him and find some middle ground)

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks for the comments guys.

On the material versus happiness side, I definitely go with the happiness. But happiness is generally unlikely if you are wondering if the electricity will be turned off because you can't pay the bills! I spent a lot of years living like that and don't want to do it again out of choice!

Well, I sat down with FI and had a long talk this morning and it turns out he hadn't thought to discuss things with me because he felt he had considered it all anyway. Turns out that the figure he mentioned was hypothetical speculation on his part and he didn't think to mention that he had already given them his bottom line.

He requested the redundancy, the company are desperate to keep him and he could easily find a new position with them, but they have deluded him for so long now that I'm pretty sure he wants out. He was on a very lucrative career path a few years before we met, but left because it didn't make him happy, so I have always been aware that money is not the driving force for his career.

I think the huge shock for me Mara, was suddenly wondering if I'd been very wrong in thinking I knew this man! We come from almost identical backgrounds - both our parents are doctors, have very similar lifestyles, incomes and values. The only big difference being his are divorced (though happily remarried) and mine have a great marriage.

We have lived together for 3 years and other than my wanting to get married and him being someone who wouldn't chose to marry off his own back because he doesn't see what the point is, but is happy to do that because it makes me happy; we have never even had a big disagreement let alone a row. Our politics, values, likes and dislikes and interests are frighteningly similar and until this week I would have said that our life plan and goals were identical because we had discussed these things.

Anyway, from our talk it seems that he has a much higher standard in mind of what is the bottom line for our future life than I do (he's the shopaholic - not me

), but just hadn't thought to make this clear to me.

I think the pre-marital counselling is definitely a good idea so that we can learn that we do need to communicate better. Part of the problem is that I find it very hard to read non-verbal signals and nuance and so interpret things wrongly all the time. He is learning that he needs to be very literal and black and white with me and that I need things spelt out. Musing outloud without clarification is now a no no.

I have cried for about an hour solid with relief that I'm not engaged to an alien in my FI's body, and now feel much better!

 

[ljmorgan]

I for one, don''t think that this situation means that you don''t know your husband. You know what, people change their minds! My husband and I make a very comfortable living, and then I decided, you know what, I think I want to go back to school and get my master''s. Which, would seriously change our income situation. It surprised my husband, but does that mean he didn''t know me? I can really see how if you work a job that you dislike, you say, "you know what? I want to have a job that I love." I don''t think you should feel as if he''s some stranger. He''s a person who is unhappy where he is! We''re planning on trying for children next year, and we both agreed that I would stay at home. But now, I think I''d like to keep working at least part-time. My husband is not thrilled, and who knows what will happen, but I really think this shows that you just roll with the punches, that having` some big set in stone plan can set you up for disappointment. I really doubt that your electricity will be shut off if you''re working, and your husband has a lower salary. If so, you have way too many expenses

I do think it''s important that you two try to be on the same page, and consider each other when making decisions.

 

[Independent Gal]

At FI's parents' 40th wedding anniversary luncheon, FI's dad toasted his mom and said "After 40 happy years together, I am still learning new things about S."

(At least that's what I think he said. My language skills are a little rusty after all.

Maybe he said "AFter 40 years together, I could really use this drink.")

 

[Mara]

pandora, glad you two are on the same page now after more discussion...i do agree with others that say it also doesn''t necessarily mean you don''t know him for him to seriously consider this, it''s what he wants to do after all, but yeah sometimes what we would love to do vs what we are qualified for or what we are trained in doing differs hugely.

i think that our mates can continuously surprise us, hopefully in positive ways...hehee. and yeah it would be boring without it right?!