Help/Thoughts finding a Round stone

[chaser]

Hey Guys,

After going into a store and looking at some stones in person, I realize that looking at a stone in person might not help me out that much and they generally don't have the imaging I see on here. I saw 3 stones each looked fine and were GIA XXX, but the HCAs were ~4-5 and I couldn't tell until I popped in the numbers. I'm a numbers guy which is why this site and the info has been really great. I think I'd be more comfortable using images and numbers to make the decision vs just my untrained sights. So I was hoping to get some help finding something that fits my criteria.

After reading a lot on the site I believe value-wise I'd get a lot more if I find something that falls into the below.
Budget for Stone: ~$20000
Type: Round Brilliant
Cut: Ideal (right?)
Color: H+
Clarity: VS2+
Size: ~1.7-1.8
GIAXXX/AGS0
H&A: Yes? After looking at images I understand that it generally means that the cut and symmetry is awesome, but what makes a H&A and what doesn't? It seems to vary form vendor to vendor.

I've tried the PS search and the selection seems to be a little bit limited. Am I being too restrictive? If so what do you suggest I move around?

Suggestions and thoughts much appreciated!

 

[RockyRacoon]

You're right about there being limited selection at that price point / spec combo, at the moment.

That being said, I was able to find two excellent options in your price range that tick all of the boxes you had mentioned:

1.80ct, H, VS2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11882/

1.73ct, H, VS1
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12326/

Personally, I prefer the 1.73ct, despite the 1.80ct having a larger diameter. The 1.73ct has AGS 0 optics, H&A, nice table size, with a Lifetime Guarantee.

Good Old Gold can also make you video of both, side-by-side, so you can let your own eyes make the decision.

Best of luck!

 

[WillyDiamond]

This one is reserved, maybe by you:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.715-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104068964005

If not, call Leslie at BGD and tell her you want something like this.
Best of luck.

 

[move1986]

This one is reserved, maybe by you:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.715-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104068964005

If not, call Leslie at BGD and tell her you want something like this.
Best of luck.

+1

 

[chaser]

Thanks for the suggestions. After searching around and reading more threads I think I'm willing to try and broaden the clarity to SI1. Seems like plenty of folks have been happy with it and VS2 doesn't necessarily mean eye-clean either.

Have people had much luck with James Allen? It looks like they have a much larger selection, but don't provide some of the same imaging as the other vendors. I've also found that I've had to eliminate a lot of stones they listed using the HCA tool.

 

[Gypsy]

They do provide the imaging for rounds that is an idealscope. On request, and limit three per purchase.

I advise you to find a setting you like, and try to find the stone at the same vendor if you can.

Also don't run HCA on AGS0 stones. Just get an idealscope image.

 

[chaser]

Thanks for the info Gypsy.

I understand that HCA should be used to help filter rather than to help select since it's a predictor of performance and since GIA doesn't grade cuts it can be helpful there. Is there any reason why an HCA of 4 or 5 shouldn't be filtered out if the stone is AGS0? Should I assume that AGS0 stones already are top performers?

Sorry for all the questions, but there's a ton of info out there and I'm probably taking the naive approach to things based on what I've learned so far.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You're right about there being limited selection at that price point / spec combo, at the moment.

That being said, I was able to find two excellent options in your price range that tick all of the boxes you had mentioned:

1.73ct, H, VS1[/b]
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12326/

Best of luck!

Beautiful stone!

 

[Gypsy]

AGS0's are already graded for light performance. And they are done with the actual stone in hand.
The HCA is a rough REJECTION TOOL (not a selection tool) based on four data points to give a rough outline of the stones performance.


Here is the explanation, put better than I could have by one of our best experts here:

The HCA does not take the 40 minor facets into consideration (of 57 total on the diamond). It does not account for cut-consistency. It does not account for 3D optical precision. It does not account for indexing. None of that information is present. The HCA is imagining a "chalk outline" of averaged (sometimes rounded) Table, Crown and Pavilion data, and predicting whether the presumed angles are "safe" or not. That's its intended use, and it's useful in that context; to reject some diamonds - and ID others worth further consideration. It should not be used for selection.

When using GIA reports the output becomes a bit more uncertain: Because of rounding, GIA 57T 34.5C 40.8P could actually be 57T 34.3 40.7 or 57T 34.7C 40.9P. That toggles between HCA 1.3 to 1.8. So a single diamond can vary on the HCA, simply based on how the lab reports the information.

In Context (from a prior thread)

Just imagine that you're trying to get to know someone's looks and personality...

An HCA score is merely like having a chalk outline of the person.
Grading report numbers are like having the person's height, weight and clothing measurements.
An ASET or Ideal-Scope (for RB) image is like having a still photo of the person.
An AGS Platinum "0" in performance is like a panel of judges confirming that the person's personality and looks are solid.
A 3D scan in sophisticated cut-calculation software is like having a video interview with the person.

Eventually, it's a lot of great information. All told it's enough for an experienced cut-specialist to make very detailed performance predictions. But in the end, a live date (dinner & a movie?) will be how you finally judge total personality and looks as you, individually, perceive them.

 

[chaser]

Thanks again Gypsy. The explanation was definitely useful. I never knew there was going to be so much ramp up to getting an ering stone, but I'm definitely glad PS has been available as a resource for me.

After browsing a ton last night I narrowed it down to 6 that seemed to be good options within my budget. It turns out going to a G color usually had a sacrifice I wasn't too keen on making elsewhere. The JA stones were actually on the lower end of the price range of the bunch so I'm probably going to ask for the IS images on those stones.

I know the list doesn't seem so narrowed down....are there other things a Noob like me should be considering that might narrow this list down further? I feel like I'm getting closer! Thanks so much everyone!

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.81-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-294416
1.81 H SI1

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-309068
1.8 H SI1

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12220/
1.7 ct H SI1

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12326/
1.73 ct H VS1

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11882/
1.8 ct H VS2

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3098834.htm
1.748 ct H VVS2 (Didn't see many VVS2s in my price range so I tossed it in to consider)

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, just a quick comment, those first 2 JA selections are both 60/60 cuts and may be quite nice but just wanted to point that out. It's a nice way to go if imaging confirms light performance as they will face up more like 2 ct. size (nearly 8mm). They may appear more brilliant and less fire balance than a true Tolk cut.

 

[chaser]

Hi Luvdajules,

Yes I noticed that the tables were generally larger and depth generally smaller than a lot of the other stones I was seeing (60-62 depth/55-57 table), but they both passed the HCA test. One is GIA XXX and the other is AGS0 so I assumed they could be ok as well.

Do 60/60s perform much differently than Tolk cuts? I assumed there was some overlap in the way they are cut where both types can perform equally well.

 

[SirGuy]

60/60 cuts often have the tendency to have proportionally more brightness (white flashes) than dispersion (color flashes, or "fire"). Nothing wrong with that, and it can sometimes help a smaller or lower color stone face up whiter and bigger. But a more "ideal" cut gives a better balance there.

 

[luvdajules]

Hi OP, 60/60 stones can be great performers and very lively stones. Just wanted you to know what you were buying/or on your short list to make an informed choice. As above, these stones are generally considered more brilliance (white light return) with less fire (colored light return) than a true Tolk cut. Many PSer's covet the fire characteristics, it seems (me included).

 

[chaser]

Thanks again for the info folks. Sounds like I'll probably be asking for a video of the stones in different lighting to see how they work out.

 

[SirGuy]

Watching digital video of the stones won't be very fruitful. An Ideal-Scope or ASET image will tell more about how it's likely to perform in real lighting. I know it's counterintuitive to say that watching video is less helpful than a light performance map, but it is. Video cannot show the nuances and intricate details of light reflection inside a stone like the human eye can. So absent actually having it in front of you, IS and ASET are the next best thing.

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for the info Gypsy.

I understand that HCA should be used to help filter rather than to help select since it's a predictor of performance and since GIA doesn't grade cuts it can be helpful there. Is there any reason why an HCA of 4 or 5 shouldn't be filtered out if the stone is AGS0? Should I assume that AGS0 stones already are top performers?

Sorry for all the questions, but there's a ton of info out there and I'm probably taking the naive approach to things based on what I've learned so far.

Personally, I feel the HCA can be useful to use with AGS0 stones, albeit not many, there are some proportion combos I have seen recently that are better than others, I have seen some steep/deep angled combos showing slight leakage on actual image. The HCA is helpful to alert the buyer which AGS0 might benefit from further evaluation in the case of those scoring >2.

 

[chaser]

I'll be trying to get both IS and actual footage of the stones. They said it'd take a few days, but once I get them I'll put them up to get help interpreting them

 

[Lorelei]

Sounds good!

 

[SirGuy]

Cool, let us know!

 

[chaser]

So I got the IS images for the two JA 60/60 stones. They do look a little different than the IS images for most of the Tolk style cuts (missing some of the white that I usually see). That being said it doesn't look too bad, but I'd appreciate input on how I should be interpreting the images and how they might look in person.

Thanks so much!
David