!Help on SPINEL!

[sparkle_zo]

I decided to postpone my blue sapphine studs project and move to my next one in the long list

.
Reading Priscope I discovered Spinel for myself, I love bright red color and would like to own one. My plan is to halo my future spinel for right hand ring.

I am calling for help of you, experts, what do you think of this stone? It''s 3.20cts stone from Burmese, price tag $3,200.

 

[babydoll_mini]

i am no expert, but I think the spinel is a big WOW!
and seems it has a tiny tiny window

 

[T L]

Does it come with a reputable lab cert since these stones are being synthesized and look like the real thing. Does it have UV fluorescence? What kind of lighting are those photos taken in? Are those inclusions at the top and are they eye visible?

 

[sparkle_zo]

Date: 1/22/2010 9:06:48 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Does it come with a reputable lab cert since these stones are being synthesized and look like the real thing. Does it have UV fluorescence? What kind of lighting are those photos taken in? Are those inclusions at the top and are they eye visible?

this stone is from the vendor that was recommended many times on PS (I am afraid if I tell where I found it someone could bye it ahead of me... or I am too paranoid). First picture is taken under office fluorescent light, the second one - sunlight".

Stone description:
"Our Master Cutter recut this wondefully colored BURMESE Spinel. Like many Spinel, the true color observed may change under different lighting conditions. We would call this a Orangy Red to a Pinkish Red depending on available lights. Two photos have been provived to show that it can look more red with pink as well as reddish orange."

I am going to email them to ask about UV fluorescence and inclusions. Thanks for your help!

 

[sparkle_zo]

I''d like to find a spinel that is >3 cw, but still stay within $3500. It is possible?
There is quite a big selection of spinels in AJS, but larger stones do not fit into my budget. Any other places to give a look?

 

[chrono]

I recognize the pictures and description so I know who the vendor is. He is a reputable guy up in the NE area. His description also jives with what I see in the pictures. Note that it is not a pure red colour but shifts from pink red outdoors to orange red indoors. Some colour shifting is normal as long as it isn't muddy and this looks all right. Definitely ask if it has UV. A cert would be nice but I do trust A. If you are local to the US, it might be worth a look see.

 

[Arkteia]

I think it is beautiful. Good luck with you setting.

 

[sparkle_zo]

Chrono, I absolutly love your ring with red spinel from your profile

. It''s so gorgeous!!! You was so lucky to find that stone. What vendors was you considering for your spinel purchase?

 

[chrono]

Thank you, Sparkle. I purchased my red spinels from AJS, ACS (they rarely carry anymore reds today) and Swala. I bought most of my red spinels years ago before prices spiked and they were easier to find then. My newest spinel in my avatar is from Swala, if that helps. I longed for a red Mahenge and he seems to be the only one carrying a great variety and best pricing, but it still look some time searching for the right one in his inventory.

 

[marcy]

It looks like a great spinel.

 

[sparkle_zo]

Date: 1/22/2010 8:51:20 PM
Author: babydoll_mini
i am no expert, but I think the spinel is a big WOW!
and seems it has a tiny tiny window

Babydoll, please could you give more details/explanation regarding window. I suspect it''s cut related problem. Will this stone benefit from recuting?

 

[ma re]

I''m no expert when it comes to spinel prices, but this is a very nice stone. The color is pretty, cutting is above average and the overall appearance seems promising. To explain "a window" - the simplest way of putting it is, the part in the center of the stone where you don''t see facet reflections, like you can see right through the stone. That''s the result of cutting, but it''s minimal in your stone and I would never advise cutting on this one. You''d probably lose quite a bit of weight on the stone and the color could suffer too, so IMO it''s not worth it. Not to mention the risk of damaging the stone while cutting, cause accidents (though rare) do happen.

 

[sparkle_zo]

I emailed my questions yesterday night and just got a reply:

"I cannot tell you if this fluorescences since we do not have UV light. There are some crystals, which is usually the common inclusion and identifier in this material. I could not see anything with my naked eyes or 2x glasses. I used a 5x loupe to see the crystals. My guess is that the average person will not see anything, but then again, this material is known to not be eye clean especially in such large sizes as this, but you probably know about this also. If there was anything objectionable or unexpected, we would not have made the investment.

This was a recut gemstone from our Master Cutter who won an award last year in the AGTA Cutting Competition, and he got an honorable mention this year. Every facet junction will meet perfectly (he is a perfectionist) and the polish is 100K diamond. There would be very few spinels with such fine cutting."

It sounds good, doesn''t it?

 

[sparkle_zo]

I also emailed to Jeff White and he kindly agreed to cut a 3-3.5 cw orangy-red spinel.
I lean greatly towards Jeff''s master cutting

, but I am worried if it would be possible to predict the eye-cleaness of the cutted stone just looking at the rough material?

I probably should trust the master''s eyes. What do you guys think?

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 12:59:13 PM
Author: sparkle_zo
I emailed my questions yesterday night and just got a reply:

'I cannot tell you if this fluorescences since we do not have UV light. There are some crystals, which is usually the common inclusion and identifier in this material. I could not see anything with my naked eyes or 2x glasses. I used a 5x loupe to see the crystals. My guess is that the average person will not see anything, but then again, this material is known to not be eye clean especially in such large sizes as this, but you probably know about this also. If there was anything objectionable or unexpected, we would not have made the investment.

This was a recut gemstone from our Master Cutter who won an award last year in the AGTA Cutting Competition, and he got an honorable mention this year. Every facet junction will meet perfectly (he is a perfectionist) and the polish is 100K diamond. There would be very few spinels with such fine cutting.'

It sounds good, doesn't it?

I would not buy a high end pink/red spinel from anyone that didn't have UV fluorescence. It gives it that extra Burma ruby like bit of color in the sun. I'm a bit surprised that this gem dealer doesn't have a UV light.

Cutting, while important, is not as important as the color on these stones, and that is where most of the value lies. Please also find out if Jeff's stone has fluor. He does charge quite a bit for his cutting, so it's important to know.

I would post any picture of the gem here since more eyes are better than just one "master pair of eyes."

To explain UV fluor, here is a hot pink Mahenge spinel with and without a UV light shining on it (courtesy LovingDiamonds). Do you see that neon pink color in the bottom UV photo? When she goes out in the sunlight with it, that neon color will carry over into the stone. It will literally "glow."

Some red spinels have very red fluorescence, and since red is the rarest color in gems, it's something extra special to have in a reddish or pink gem. Chrono has mentioned her huge Mahenge 5 carat stone looks like a glowing red ruby outdoors in the sun.

Also be leary of spinels that look like garnet, or have too much brown or grey in them. I returned a higher priced spinel that looked like a garnet, and I found out it had no UV fluor (so now I always ask). I also returned two Mahenges that were a bit too grey for my liking and although they had UV fluor, the indoor color was "meh." I later found out from a spinel dealer that you all know and love

(rather not say his name though), that all high end red spinels should have UV fluor.

 

[Gailey]

I also recognise who this stone is from. I suspect the photo on the right has been shot under multi-positioned LED''s. The light bright colour of the tweezers is often indicative of the stone being darker in real life. I would also say that both of these photos show the stone in a tilted positon and not head on. If you are seriously interested in it, I would request a head on shot taken on the back of a hand in natural (bright but overcast) lighting.

There are others here who know more about how these stones flouresce. Do these spinels show fluorescence in regular sunlight? I''m not sure.

One last point about lighting. I have a beautiful rubellite from Lisa Elser. I took it to show Canuk-gal and we met in a brand new department store in town. The lighting was very bright and the stone performed in a way that has not been replicated anywhere else.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 1:14:42 PM
Author: Gailey
I also recognise who this stone is from. I suspect the photo on the right has been shot under multi-positioned LED''s. The light bright colour of the tweezers is often indicative of the stone being darker in real life. I would also say that both of these photos show the stone in a tilted positon and not head on. If you are seriously interested in it, I would request a head on shot taken on the back of a hand in natural (bright but overcast) lighting.

There are others here who know more about how these stones flouresce. Do these spinels show fluorescence in regular sunlight? I''m not sure.

One last point about lighting. I have a beautiful rubellite from Lisa Elser. I took it to show Canuk-gal and we met in a brand new department store in town. The lighting was very bright and the stone performed in a way that has not been replicated anywhere else.

Yes, they do.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 1:14:42 PM
Author: Gailey
I also recognise who this stone is from. I suspect the photo on the right has been shot under multi-positioned LED''s. The light bright colour of the tweezers is often indicative of the stone being darker in real life. I would also say that both of these photos show the stone in a tilted positon and not head on. If you are seriously interested in it, I would request a head on shot taken on the back of a hand in natural (bright but overcast) lighting.

There are others here who know more about how these stones flouresce. Do these spinels show fluorescence in regular sunlight? I''m not sure.

One last point about lighting. I have a beautiful rubellite from Lisa Elser. I took it to show Canuk-gal and we met in a brand new department store in town. The lighting was very bright and the stone performed in a way that has not been replicated anywhere else.

Very fine rubellites remind me of Mahenges actually, but they don''t have the hardness, RI or UV fluor. However, I do think they are a wonderful, and more affordable option. I have several that are dead ringers for Mahenge spinels because they are precision cut and very very saturated. Your rubellite is also very beautiful Gailey.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 1/23/2010 1:16:37 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/23/2010 1:14:42 PM
Author: Gailey
I also recognise who this stone is from. I suspect the photo on the right has been shot under multi-positioned LED''s. The light bright colour of the tweezers is often indicative of the stone being darker in real life. I would also say that both of these photos show the stone in a tilted positon and not head on. If you are seriously interested in it, I would request a head on shot taken on the back of a hand in natural (bright but overcast) lighting.

There are others here who know more about how these stones flouresce. Do these spinels show fluorescence in regular sunlight? I''m not sure.

One last point about lighting. I have a beautiful rubellite from Lisa Elser. I took it to show Canuk-gal and we met in a brand new department store in town. The lighting was very bright and the stone performed in a way that has not been replicated anywhere else.

Yes, they do.

You would have thought that this supplier would know that???? I know not all vendors are gemologists or lapidarists. I don''t know what credentials this supplier has. I am sometimes surprised when I find out that I know more than the dealer offering the stone does and I don''t know very much.

Another question, do the similarly looking synthesised spinels fluoresce in sunlight.

I just want to make it clear that I am not for one minute suggesting that this vendor is not reputable, nor his stones genuine.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/23/2010 1:37:29 PM
Author: Gailey

Date: 1/23/2010 1:16:37 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/23/2010 1:14:42 PM
Author: Gailey
I also recognise who this stone is from. I suspect the photo on the right has been shot under multi-positioned LED''s. The light bright colour of the tweezers is often indicative of the stone being darker in real life. I would also say that both of these photos show the stone in a tilted positon and not head on. If you are seriously interested in it, I would request a head on shot taken on the back of a hand in natural (bright but overcast) lighting.

There are others here who know more about how these stones flouresce. Do these spinels show fluorescence in regular sunlight? I''m not sure.

One last point about lighting. I have a beautiful rubellite from Lisa Elser. I took it to show Canuk-gal and we met in a brand new department store in town. The lighting was very bright and the stone performed in a way that has not been replicated anywhere else.

Yes, they do.

You would have thought that this supplier would know that???? I know not all vendors are gemologists or lapidarists. I don''t know what credentials this supplier has. I am sometimes surprised when I find out that I know more than the dealer offering the stone does and I don''t know very much.

Another question, do the similarly looking synthesised spinels fluoresce in sunlight.

I just want to make it clear that I am not for one minute suggesting that this vendor is not reputable, nor his stones genuine.

That''s a great question Gailey, and yes, they do based on information from this article.

http://midtenn-gia-alumni.carrienunes.com/news/08-10_spinel.php

You also bring up a great point that the OP, or anyone, should know when purchasing these gems. The flux synthetic red spinels look quite like the real thing, so when buying a very expensive red spinel, always insist on a reputable lab cert. See the linked article for the incredible likeness the synthetic gems have to the real thing, and they even grow similar looking crystals.

 

[sparkle_zo]

There are some beautufil spinels in Palagems. I understand that I need to ask someone to quote them for me as Pala sells only wholesale. Would they answer my question regarding these stones or I have to direct them throught the 3d party as well?

What is your opinion on my new founds?

 

[T L]

Do you prefer orange reds? A spinel dealer told me than pinkish reds command more value. I do not know how true that is, so if someone wants to correct me, feel free.

The top one is too orange for me, the middle too brown, and the bottom has the best color IMO, although it still has orange.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 1/24/2010 10:04:38 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Do you prefer orange reds? A spinel dealer told me than pinkish reds command more value. I do not know how true that is, so if someone wants to correct me, feel free.

The top one is too orange for me, the middle too brown, and the bottom has the best color IMO, although it still has orange.

Sparkle_zo, you may have noticed that there is a large group of mahenge spinel lovers here. I prefer a flame spinel personally. I like all of the stones you posted from Pala. I would just caution you about the oval you posted first. Only because if you decide you want a halo, that one looks like it is not a true oval and might be trickier to set. Of course, if you don''t want a halo then no matter.

 

[sparkle_zo]

Date: 1/24/2010 10:27:05 AM
Author: Gailey

Date: 1/24/2010 10:04:38 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Do you prefer orange reds? A spinel dealer told me than pinkish reds command more value. I do not know how true that is, so if someone wants to correct me, feel free.

The top one is too orange for me, the middle too brown, and the bottom has the best color IMO, although it still has orange.

Sparkle_zo, you may have noticed that there is a large group of mahenge spinel lovers here. I prefer a flame spinel personally. I like all of the stones you posted from Pala. I would just caution you about the oval you posted first. Only because if you decide you want a halo, that one looks like it is not a true oval and might be trickier to set. Of course, if you don''t want a halo then no matter.

I personally don''t mind orange or pink overtones, as long as it''s a pleasant color.

Gailey, thanks for your advise, I actually plan to set my future spinel in delicate hallo. I guess Pala''s gems are not best cut stones ever.

It looks like a real challenge to shop for colored stones, while it''s pretty straightforward with diamonds...

 

[sparkle_zo]

Date: 1/24/2010 10:04:38 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Do you prefer orange reds? A spinel dealer told me than pinkish reds command more value. I do not know how true that is, so if someone wants to correct me, feel free.

The top one is too orange for me, the middle too brown, and the bottom has the best color IMO, although it still has orange.

When you talk about pinkish red you mean the color similar to the color of this stone?

 

[T L]

Date: 1/24/2010 11:16:33 AM
Author: sparkle_zo

Date: 1/24/2010 10:04:38 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Do you prefer orange reds? A spinel dealer told me than pinkish reds command more value. I do not know how true that is, so if someone wants to correct me, feel free.

The top one is too orange for me, the middle too brown, and the bottom has the best color IMO, although it still has orange.

When you talk about pinkish red you mean the color similar to the color of this stone?

Although that's a very lovely stone, I would call that strictly pink. I think Chrono's stone in her avatar photo is what I would call pinkish red, in particular her Whiteflash images of the stone. Mahenges tend to be pink under 3 carats, and gain more red saturation in larger sizes. Swala is a good source, and Eric, the owner, understands what UV fluor is.

Again, as for a true vivid red spinel without any pink or orange, I don't know if that exists. Here's a magnificent and large pinkish red spinel, being held by Eric from Swala. It is 12 carats. Basically the more pink or orange, the more the stone deviates from red, and you have to be particularly careful with too much orange, or the stone can look too brown or take on a brownish cast.

 

[chrono]

Of the 3 Pala stones, my preference is for the last cushion. The first will probably be too dark (Pala's pictures are lighter than the real stone from my prior experience plus it says it is dark/deep in the description). The second is brownish and the third appears to have a purer hue.

 

[Michael_E]

Date: 1/24/2010 9:49:25 AM
Author: sparkle_zo
There are some beautufil spinels in Palagems. I understand that I need to ask someone to quote them for me as Pala sells only wholesale. Would they answer my question regarding these stones or I have to direct them throught the 3d party as well?

I won''t give you a quote, but I did go look them up and the wholesale cost on all of then is above your preferred budget, some significantly.

 

[Laila619]

I like the 4.94 carat cushion. That one is pretty. I also like the 3.20 carat in your first post.

 

[Harriet]

I think I''ve seen the first two stones from Pala. #1 is a beauty.