Help me pick a stone! 1.3-1.5 Carat Diamond Upgrade

[bastet]

Hi all, I'm upgrading my engagement ring purchased from James Allen back in 2015. My old stone is a .81 I, VS2, Ex, Ex, no fluorescence. It's a beautiful stone, but I'd like to upgrade to something a bit larger, but nothing crazy. I'm not that tied to clarity, as long as it's eye clean, and I want something in the 1.3-1.5 range, preferably under $9,000. I'd also like to go up in color to an H.

I have this stone on hold https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-16802260, but I wonder if I should be concerned with the feather on the table. I'm wondering if this is a better option: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-16199377. It's an I, but has faint fluorescence which I've read can make it look a bit whiter. Thoughts? It's about $1000 more. Also, considering this diamond: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-16459408. Thanks for your input!

 

[Kim N]

The first one is close to a 60/60 style cut, so it will favor white light over colored light return. It could be a bit more precisely cut but isn't bad at all, though I personally prefer a more balanced stone. I'm not a big fan of the cut of the other two stones.

What do you think of these?

1.30 Carat round diamond

This 1.3 carat round diamond I color vs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

1.32 Carat round diamond

This 1.32 carat round diamond H color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[bastet]

That 1.32 is pretty! Thanks for the suggestion. I might make a switch as it’s a vs2 vs SI1 and a tad larger.

Here is the ideal scope image of the one I was initially leaning toward. Thanks so much!

 

[sledge]

Both stones are closer to what we call 60/60 which means BOTH the table and depths equal (or nearly equal) 60% each. This normally results in a shallower stone that produces more white light return in lieu of more rainbow light. This isn’t wrong but it’s definitely a preference. Most prefer stronger rainbow light (aka fire), opposed to white light.

Is your current stone a 60/60? Can you post a copy of the lab report so we can see the proportions and gauge the personality of your existing stone?

To answer your other questions, I am not crazy about the feather on the table. It may not be eye clean at certain angles. Also while I like and bought my wife a stone with fluor there are some caveats that need understood:

1. Fluor is commonly blue but can be other colors. Yellow is the common tint color in diamonds but can also be other shades. Blue fluor + yellow tint = whitening effect. Other combos of colors and shades may result differently. It would be unusual to see the other shades or tints but you should be aware.

2. Fluor comes in different strengths as noted on the lab report. Any benefit of whitening would be limited to the strength of fluor in that particular stone.

3. Fluor is activated (or excited) when exposed to UV light. Therein comes a huge debate about how much UV is truly benefited from. Outside it will be stronger. Inside it is generally weaker. Distance from the UV source and the correct wave also comes into play. The point remains that without strong enough UV to excite the fluor then whitening is minimal or non existent.

4. The combo of 2&3 are important as they determine exactly how much whitening, if any, you will see. My wife’s stone is an H with medium blue fluor. The whitening effect seems minimal to us. My personal viewpoint is that I would buy fluor as a perk but not as a substitution for better color as it simply isn’t always “turned on” so you don’t receive any benefits 100% of the time. Whereas a better color is always a better color, not under the right conditions.

5. Usually fluor doesn’t cause transparency issues but it has the potential to do so. And normally the stronger the fluor then the more risk of that transparency being an issue. Also with certain inclusions you may want to be cautious as it may enhance transparency issues.

6. Currently the market sees fluor as less desirable so it should trade for less dollars than an equal stone with none or faint. And again, the more fluor combined with better color would receive a larger discount. On the extreme, a D very strong blue should discount more than an I medium blue.

 

[bastet]

Thanks! This is my current stone. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-556682



The 1.32 that was linked has a faint fluorescence. Should that be okay or would I have to wait and see?

 

[Kim N]

Thanks! This is my current stone. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-556682



The 1.32 that was linked has a faint fluorescence. Should that be okay or would I have to wait and see?

Your current stone has very similar proportions to the 1.32 and the H SI1. The SI1's Ideal-Scope image looks great, but I would personally shy away from the feather. Faint fluorescence is not a problem at all. It's only when you get to medium and above that it may be an issue. Can you ask for an Ideal-Scope image of the 1.32?

 

[sledge]

GIA uses the terms none and faint to describe the two lowest categories of fluor. AGS uses a single term negligible.

Really AGS has/had the better terminology. As pointed out by @Kim N faint is not problematic. Truthfully, probably medium in most cases. Simply states, higher levels create potential for higher risk. GIA produced an article about fluorescence and they say that < 1% of all diamonds with fluor present transparency issues. They have the largest data set but that seems optimistic to me. As I eluded to earlier fluor can be compounded by certain inclusions like clouds, graining, etc and I am not sure if the GIA study considers that.

I honestly wouldn’t be concerned with none, faint or negligible fluor. And all 3 would trade at full market value with no discount.

To learn more:

Fact Checking Diamond Fluorescence: 11 Myths Dispelled

Diamond fluorescence is a glow some diamonds emit under UV light. Need to worry? Let’s clear up some common myths so you can enjoy your diamond.

4cs.gia.edu

 

[sledge]

Thank you for posting your current stones data. I agree it’s a fantastic looking idealscope image! Also I noticed the properties are very similar to some of the other stones presented so far.

Is it safe to say you enjoy your current diamond and looking for the same characteristic in your new stone? Would you prefer more fire/rainbow or do you like the balanced look you have now?

Here is something to consider. Each stone has a personality based on the proportions and cut quality. It’s possible to have two great looking IS images which indicate optimal light return but still have very different personalities.

Think of it sort of like if you go car shopping. You may find two cars that are really nice, you like and fit your budget. But one car may handle and accelerate much better than the other. Yet the other car may get slightly better MPG and feels more soft and cushioning but a little sloppy in the curves. Also one may look a little more sporty on the outside but not hugely different.

The 1.30 I/VS1 stone that @Kim N referenced earlier has proportions to have a much different personality than your current stone. It has a smaller table and very complimentary angles that will be very firey. We don’t have an IS image but I would expect it to be very good. I suspect you probably like the clarity but dislike the I color as you mentioned you’d like to move to an H+. But overall, it’s a fantastic pick!

In regards to color, I saw the video of your existing stone. The video has a darkness to it, maybe like a grey. Is it that way in real life or was it just a video graphing effect? I ask because grey is a potential undertone and doesn’t have to be disclosed on the lab report until K or lower. More importantly it may have skewed your perception of I color.



Anyhow, moving on. I have a potential candidate for you. It’s a 1.30 H/VS2. Dreamy proportions that will create big fire. 55 table, 34.5/40.7, 61.5 depth & 76 LGF’s with 15.4 CH. can you say sparkle bomb? It’s also part of JA’s TH collection. The hearts image isn’t showing up for me so that needs to be requested but it’s safe to reasonably assume the symmetry is superb. The IS image is fantastic. And this stone is an AGS000 with superb looking CG ASET also.

It is ever so slightly over budget @ $9,290 but I think it’s worth reserving and considering. It’s a great compromise between size, color, clarity and truly ideal H&A cut and symmetry! So far this would be my personal choice given the various constraints.

1.30 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 1.3 carat H color vs2 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

 

[bastet]

Thanks so much, everyone! @sledge I did find my old stone a bit off-color in some lights, which is why I want to move up to H. I liked everything else about it, though. Thanks so much for linking that 1.30 TH diamond; it's beautiful.

@Kim N Unfortunately, they don't have an idealscope on the 1.32, but it checks all my boxes and looks good at least online. Everyone has given me enough cause to pause about the large feather in the diamond I originally reserved that I will make a different selection.

So I've decided to go with the 1.32 diamond even without the idealscope. It fits all my criteria, and after learning more about faint fluorescence it doesn't bother me. I'll see how it looks when it gets here. It seems to have similar proportions to my current stone. Thanks so much for everyone's insight; it's been hugely helpful.

 

[DejaWiz]

I'm going to go in another direction here:
A sacrifice of one color grade, a slight increase in spread, a bump in clarity, and gorgeous AGS000 proportions and angles.

1.38 Carat round diamond

1.38 Carat round diamond

www.jamesallen.com

 

[sledge]

It sounds like you are decided on the 1.32. Here are a few final thoughts that I would do in your situation:

1. While the stone is still on reserve and before you purchase, go to a local jeweler and try to find several GIA stones that have proportions as close to identical as possible to your existing stone. Also that would have clarity as good as your stone. And of course size too, so somewhere between 0.75 to 0.90 carats preferably. The one variable we want to change is color. However we want them as close to the “middle of the range” as possible for each color (will explain more later). Ensure all the stones have the more common yellow undertone, which shouldn’t be an issue — we just want to be sure to include any unique undertones like grey, brown, etc. It would be super awesome if they could find about 6 stones for you to compare, ranging from F down to K. Without you knowing, have them randomly place the stones so the stones aren’t in color order and you have no idea what color is what. Now slowly start eliminating the stones that have too much color for you. You may reach a point where several stones look the same, which would signify where your eyes can actually decipher color difference. If nothing above an H looks any whiter than for you spending cash for a G would be pointless as your eyes couldn’t appreciate it. Another scenario is you may have very great vision and ability to see the tiniest of color change so you can identify all the stones. If this is the case, I would further challenge you to determine at which shade/color does it bother you. The point being you may have high color sensitivity but your tolerance may be lower. For instance, maybe you see color accurately to F but you aren’t bothered until it’s H or lower. This would help you to know which color range to best stick to for the happiest result.

2. While doing the color test above, I would want to compare your existing stone to the others. You mentioned it looked a “bit off color” in some situations. Ask the jeweler if they will allow you to move to an area where you could replicate those scenarios to see if the other stones behave the same way. Also see if those other stones truly look more yellow (or less grey) than yours. My concern is maybe your stone has a grayish undertone and I want to make sure I color with proper yellow tone is the issue or if it’s a different undertone that’s the issue. I say issue lightly — you are upgrading but have an opportunity to also improve color, so I want to pinpoint this so you not only get a larger stone but also really nail the color properly. It doesn’t mean what you have now is bad. But in a sense you get a do over so we want to maximize the opportunity. Different undertones can really alter a persons opinion which is why I mention all this.

3. I mentioned color range earlier. It’s important to keep in mind that color or clarity are subjective meaning there is a “range” that each color or clarity grade fits in. Sometimes you find a stone that is on the edge of the range or closer to the middle. For instance, maybe a stone is graded as I color but it *barely* makes an I and looks closer to a J. On the flip side a stone could be I but *barely* missed being an H. If you like more warmth, you may lean to the I that is almost J, whereas if you like less warmth you may find the “near H” more pleasing. Color is further compounded by the fact each range is not equal. Meaning a D stone has very little range before it becomes an E. Whereas a J stone has considerable more range before it becomes an I or K. Not that this is exact but maybe a D has 3 variations. The J may have a 10 variations before it gets grade differently. As you move down in color that range widens, so a K may have 15 variations. Again, these numbers are made up and for illustrative purposes only but you get my point. But as such it’s a valid question to ask JA how the stone you are purchasing falls. It would require them to pull the stone and visually compare to other stones. Again, these are somewhat nuances but with color sensitivity they can have a meaningful impact on selection and overall happiness.

4. Since JA doesn’t have an IS image, I’d encourage to buy your own idealscope and test the stone at your house. Your existing stone has a really nice and near perfect example of a good IS image, so you want to replicate that. You can do this on a mounted stone but I would ask Ja to ship the stone loose for you to inspect and scope before it’s mounted so if something isn’t right it’s more easily swapped out.

 

[bastet]

@sledge Thank you so much! One last question. The 1.32 diamond I chose notes on the report that additional clouds and pinpoints aren't shown. Should I be worried about a cloudy diamond?

 

[lovedogs]

@sledge Thank you so much! One last question. The 1.32 diamond I chose notes on the report that additional clouds and pinpoints aren't shown. Should I be worried about a cloudy diamond?

Not sledge, but I can answer this. The main "grading causing" inclusions are listed (in order of which is most severe) on the grading plot. So in the case of your 1.32, the "grade making" inclusions are a feather and a pinpoint. If the clarity grade was based on clouds, either cloud would be listed first on the plot, OR it would say "clarity grade is based on clouds not shown". Both of those things are potential red flags, especially in an SI1/SI2 or lower stone.

Luckily, yours has none of those potential red flags, so there's nothing to worry about IMHO.

 

[bastet]

@lovedogs Thank you!

 

[Kim N]

Not sledge, but I can answer this. The main "grading causing" inclusions are listed (in order of which is most severe) on the grading plot. So in the case of your 1.32, the "grade making" inclusions are a feather and a pinpoint. If the clarity grade was based on clouds, either cloud would be listed first on the plot, OR it would say "clarity grade is based on clouds not shown". Both of those things are potential red flags, especially in an SI1/SI2 or lower stone.

Luckily, yours has none of those potential red flags, so there's nothing to worry about IMHO.

I agree completely!

 

[bastet]

Many thanks to you @Kim N, for suggesting the diamond I ended up with! Although it doesn't have an idealscope it does well with all the online tools I've run the specs through. Fingers crossed!

 

[sledge]

Thanks @lovedogs and @Kim N for jumping in. My wife is in the hospital right now so I feel a little bit like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. It’s these moments we realize just how much our loved ones do to make life click so smoothly.

Anyhow, no concerns on clarity for reasons already noted.

@bastet I still encourage you to get an idealscope and check at home since JA doesn’t have one to share. My reasoning is simple. Those tools are elimination tools but effectively all have the same shortcoming — they all take for granted the data on the lab report.

Which in theory sounds right. But in reality you have to understand there are 57 facets on a round diamond, 58 if it has a culet. There are 8 actual crown angles and 8 actual pavilions.

Lab reports provide us a “summary” report of the actuals. In the case of GIA this means they average the crowns and round to the nearest 0.5 degree. Similar with pavilions, average all 8 actuals but round to nearest 0.1 degree. Lower girdle facets are to the nearest 5% but actuals can vary, meaning 75% can mean 73-77 and 80% can range from 78-82.

Taking this a step further, the averages and rounded values of 34/40.8 may work. But not every set of actuals are truly that. They will vary slightly. So its possible some of the actuals don’t work yet the averaged and rounded data does.

An IS or ASET image provides a graphical representation of those actuals are actually playing nicely together. When they aren’t the images will show leakage or less strong areas.

Again, it could be perfect. And the tools are useful. It’s just important to understand the limitations and why the advanced images matter.

 

[sledge]

On a side note I knew a @bastet from a long time ago in a different time and place. It’s a unique username I haven’t saw since. I don’t want to ask too much identifiable info for respect of privacy but “Palace” and “Utah” may be keywords you recognize if the same person.

 

[lovedogs]

@sledge I hope your wife recovers quickly!!

 

[Kim N]

Many thanks to you @Kim N, for suggesting the diamond I ended up with! Although it doesn't have an idealscope it does well with all the online tools I've run the specs through. Fingers crossed!

You're very welcome, and I'm excited for you!

Will you still have your current diamond at home when the new one arrives? In the absence of an Ideal-Scope, I would compare the new stone against your current one in all your usual lighting environments. Hopefully it will perform at least as well. Please come back and let us know how it goes!

 

[bastet]

You're very welcome, and I'm excited for you!

Will you still have your current diamond at home when the new one arrives? In the absence of an Ideal-Scope, I would compare the new stone against your current one in all your usual lighting environments. Hopefully it will perform at least as well. Please come back and let us know how it goes!

The diamond is currently in New York, so I requested an Idealscope image; I'm not sure if they still do them by request, but they did back when I bought my old diamond in 2015. I was worried since James Allen has changed hands since I last used them, but customer service has been lovely throughout all my many holds and changes.

I also purchased an idealscope. The ring will be set, so unfortunately, it won't be under ideal conditions. I would have it shipped loose, but I've been lusting after this tulip setting for a few years. Thanks for the suggestion of comparing it to my old stone; I'll do that as well.

Now on to updating my wedding band! My finger size has changed, and my current eternity band can't be resized. Debating a simple wide platinum band or more diamonds.

I'll be sure to come back with photos of the ring.

 

[sledge]

The diamond is currently in New York, so I requested an Idealscope image; I'm not sure if they still do them by request, but they did back when I bought my old diamond in 2015. I was worried since James Allen has changed hands since I last used them, but customer service has been lovely throughout all my many holds and changes.

I also purchased an idealscope. The ring will be set, so unfortunately, it won't be under ideal conditions. I would have it shipped loose, but I've been lusting after this tulip setting for a few years. Thanks for the suggestion of comparing it to my old stone; I'll do that as well.

Now on to updating my wedding band! My finger size has changed, and my current eternity band can't be resized. Debating a simple wide platinum band or more diamonds.

I'll be sure to come back with photos of the ring.

JA still does IS images on request. You should get one if you ask.

Very exciting. Look forward to the final pics!

FYI, love that setting and have recommended to a few others in the past. The tulip basket flows very eloquently in my opinion. Also I like how the band tapers into the diamond from the top view. Because it gets skinny like that it will accentuate your diamond and does a visual illusion to our eyes to make it look a smidge larger. Very good choice!



In regards to your wedding band be aware that the tulip will bulge out from the ring. So placing side by side may require a band with a curve in it. If using diamonds I’d be careful to make sure they don’t rub against that bulge and cause premature wear in your e-ring setting.

 

[bastet]

JA still does IS images on request. You should get one if you ask.

Very exciting. Look forward to the final pics!

FYI, love that setting and have recommended to a few others in the past. The tulip basket flows very eloquently in my opinion. Also I like how the band tapers into the diamond from the top view. Because it gets skinny like that it will accentuate your diamond and does a visual illusion to our eyes to make it look a smidge larger. Very good choice!



In regards to your wedding band be aware that the tulip will bulge out from the ring. So placing side by side may require a band with a curve in it. If using diamonds I’d be careful to make sure they don’t rub against that bulge and cause premature wear in your e-ring setting.

Thanks! I just heard back from the service team, and they can do an idealscope. I'll have it back in about a week. I'll be sure to share it before I lock everything in. I still have that TH diamond you posted earlier in the back of my mind, but I'm hoping to come in at or under budget (without compromising on a beautiful stone) since I also have to purchase a band (or two).

I plan to visit the JA showroom in DC, which is nearby, to play around with different bands, and see what fits. I'm not tied to using them, so I will be poking around online as well. I had a 4.75 finger size when I got married. 8 years and 15 pounds later they're now a 5.5. Who knew I gained weight in my fingers?! I'm avoiding all eternity bands just in case they fluctuate again up or down.

 

[sledge]

Thanks! I just heard back from the service team, and they can do an idealscope. I'll have it back in about a week. I'll be sure to share it before I lock everything in. I still have that TH diamond you posted earlier in the back of my mind, but I'm hoping to come in at or under budget (without compromising on a beautiful stone) since I also have to purchase a band (or two).

I plan to visit the JA showroom in DC, which is nearby, to play around with different bands, and see what fits. I'm not tied to using them, so I will be poking around online as well. I had a 4.75 finger size when I got married. 8 years and 15 pounds later they're now a 5.5. Who knew I gained weight in my fingers?! I'm avoiding all eternity bands just in case they fluctuate again up or down.

No worries. Hope this one works out perfectly for you so no swapping, etc is necessary. FYI, lots of people lurk here and snatch up recommendations. Not saying that will happen with the TH stone, but it’s a possibility. You may want to place on reserve with JA so it’s protected in case you go that route.

I got a laugh from the finger weight comment. Being a guy I have huge fingers in comparison to yours. And my ring always seems to fit but I hear the ladies here often talk about their fingers fluctuating during different seasons of the years, during pregnancy, etc. I think some of it’s fairly common. If you do end up doing a diamond wedding band, you may want to only go 1/2 or 3/4 so you have some space to size up/down as life changes.

 

[bastet]

Hi all, I just got the idealscope image for the 1.32 diamond I chose. Thoughts? It looks pretty good, but I'm a bit concerned with the white v-shaped areas. I'd love to be able to pull the trigger, but I want to make sure it's a good choice. Thanks!

 

[Kim N]

Hi all, I just got the idealscope image for the 1.32 diamond I chose. Thoughts? It looks pretty good, but I'm a bit concerned with the white v-shaped areas. I'd love to be able to pull the trigger, but I want to make sure it's a good choice. Thanks!

It looks great to me! Do you mean the v-shaped spots along the edge?

 

[bastet]

Yes, that's what I was looking at. Funnily enough, the gemologist at James Allen is the same one who I worked with when I picked my first stone in 2016! Great that they retain employees for so long.

This is what he said about the stone: "The image looks great, showing lots of red/pink coloration, representing strong brilliance throughout the diamond. This fully supports the brilliance seen in our magnified image. In addition to being bright, it’s cut well, eye clean, and white in color. There are only good things to be said about it."

I think I will pull the trigger; thanks again @Kim N, for all your help.

 

[Kim N]

Yes, that's what I was looking at. Funnily enough, the gemologist at James Allen is the same one who I worked with when I picked my first stone in 2016! Great that they retain employees for so long.

This is what he said about the stone: "The image looks great, showing lots of red/pink coloration, representing strong brilliance throughout the diamond. This fully supports the brilliance seen in our magnified image. In addition to being bright, it’s cut well, eye clean, and white in color. There are only good things to be said about it."

I think I will pull the trigger; thanks again @Kim N, for all your help.

You're welcome! And the v-shaped spots are completely normal. The diamond looks like a winner--I hope it'll wow you when you receive it!

 

[bastet]

It arrived and it’s gorgeous!!!! Pardon my terrible photography. I wanted to share ASAP. I’ll take some beauty shots tomorrow when it’s not so dark. Thanks again for all your help everyone, particularly @Kim N and @sledge.

 

[Kim N]

It arrived and it’s gorgeous!!!! Pardon my terrible photography. I wanted to share ASAP. I’ll take some beauty shots tomorrow when it’s not so dark. Thanks again for all your help everyone, particularly @Kim N and @sledge.

Oh, it's stunning on you and the perfect size! Wear in the best of health!