Help, Is this a good price?

[pvb99]

I have been reading the faqs and the forum for about six months. I had thought I had a pretty good understanding of diamonds at this point until my wife and I stopped at a local jewler today to look at stones. It was my intention to nail down a size with her in the store and then buy online to save money. My budget is $15k Before today I was thinking of getting 1.3c ideal cut round with G color, and VS1-VVS2

So we stop in the store today, a very nice local jeweler. I tell the gentleman the above information but no price information. He goes in the back and brings out a loose 1.51ct VS2 G stone for $9500 It had an EGL certificate that said the the cut was "very good" My wife asked for something bigger and then he brought out a 1.74ct round brillant cut color G VVS2 that also had an EGL certificate for a "very good" cut. The price is $12,000 that includes a platinum setting. Both stones were very beautiful to us. He showed us the hearts and arrows pattern of both stones but said they weren''t graded as H & A So we leave confused. I thought the prices were low.

I go home and come back to pricescope to search for comparable stones online. From what I found online the B&M store seemed to be cheaper then online! I wrote down everything on the EGL certificate for the 1.74ct stone which seems to be the size we need now. Here is everything:
1.74 ct
7.92x7.83x4.67 mm
Proportion: Very Good
Depth:59.3%
Table diameter:56%
Crown height: 13%
Pavilion depth:42%
Girdle thickness: Medium Faceted
Finish Grade: Very Good
Purity: VVS2
Color: G

If I buy it from them should I send it to another lab to have it checked out? Is this a good stone for this price?
Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[TimeTraveller]

Hi pvb99.

First off, I''m a newbie myself. So I defer to all the other old timers on here. But from all the knowledge I''ve gleamed over the past couple of weeks, I have a few comments to offer.

You say in your opening paragraph that you''re looking for a "1.3c ideal cut round with G color, and VS1-VVS2". I''m going to focus on the "ideal cut" requirement. If you really are interested in an "ideal cut" then this stone you''ve listed would not fit in the Ideal Cut catagory.

Find the AGS000 Ideal Cut details here: http://ags.org/consumers/Diamond_Buyers_Class/dia_image_large.asp

As you can see, the pavilion depth of your listed stone is 42% and the AGS Ideal would require at the minimum 42.2%.

Also, while the AGS Ideal doesn''t list an absolute range for the total depth, I don''t think 59.3% would ever work for an Ideal Cut rating. Blue Nile''s has their details about their cut rankings (http://www.bluenile.com/diamond_grading.asp) and you can see that at 59.3%, the stone would only fall into their Very Good catagory.

Lastly, this stone has a EGL report. While it''s debatable whether a GIA report is better than a AGS report or a AGS is better than a GIA, it''s not very debatable whether EGL is as good as either a AGS or GIA report. I would definitely suggest you get an independent appraiser to check out if the stats on the EGL report matches up.

I can''t comment on the price of the stone, but I can say that I do not believe this stone is an Ideal Cut. If you''re looking for a real Ideal Cut diamond, then this is not it.

Good luck.

Date: 8/6/2005 5:25:09 PM
Author:pvb99
I have been reading the faqs and the forum for about six months. I had thought I had a pretty good understanding of diamonds at this point until my wife and I stopped at a local jewler today to look at stones. It was my intention to nail down a size with her in the store and then buy online to save money. My budget is $15k Before today I was thinking of getting 1.3c ideal cut round with G color, and VS1-VVS2


So we stop in the store today, a very nice local jeweler. I tell the gentleman the above information but no price information. He goes in the back and brings out a loose 1.51ct VS2 G stone for $9500 It had an EGL certificate that said the the cut was ''very good'' My wife asked for something bigger and then he brought out a 1.74ct round brillant cut color G VVS2 that also had an EGL certificate for a ''very good'' cut. The price is $12,000 that includes a platinum setting. Both stones were very beautiful to us. He showed us the hearts and arrows pattern of both stones but said they weren''t graded as H & A So we leave confused. I thought the prices were low.


I go home and come back to pricescope to search for comparable stones online. From what I found online the B&M store seemed to be cheaper then online! I wrote down everything on the EGL certificate for the 1.74ct stone which seems to be the size we need now. Here is everything:

1.74 ct

7.92x7.83x4.67 mm

Proportion: Very Good

Depth:59.3%

Table diameter:56%

Crown height: 13%

Pavilion depth:42%

Girdle thickness: Medium Faceted

Finish Grade: Very Good

Purity: VVS2

Color: G


If I buy it from them should I send it to another lab to have it checked out? Is this a good stone for this price?

Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[drkewl]

quick and dirty answer: you get what you pay for.

I am currently looking at a ''super ideal'' AGS 000 1.57 carat diamond that almost maxes out the brilliance scope... it is an H/VS2 and is selling online for $12,800. Gets a 1.8 HCA score. Should be one hell of a performer.

First problem: EGL Certificate. They are known to be lax in grading (especially if it is EGL - Europe graded.) Your G VVS2 most likely would be graded H or lower and in the VS range in clarity at GIA and AGS. Just do a search on the forum and you will easily see a number of examples of how EGL certificates are ''inaccurate''.

Second problem: Cut. I do not recall how accurate EGL is historically in determining ''cut'', but considering them overall, this possibly may be a generous grade. Remeber: CUT IS KING. It is the initial key factor that will determine light performance. Go for the ideal cut if you have a 15K budget (Thats what my total ring budget is right now)

The reason the stone wasn''t graded ''Hearts & Arrows'' is because they probably are ''imperfect''. You and I are not experts in viewing diamonds, so the differences may be difficult to see for us, but there is probably a problem somewhere in that image (maybe as simple as one heart or arrow is not ''perfect'' or maybe all of them are too fat or too skinny).

What you really should do is find an ''ideal'' cut stone (if you are intent at going the B&M route) and compare with this diamond to see whether you can see a visual difference.

I tried to enter these numbers into the HCA and got 3.2.. but light return was only rated as ''good''. IMHO, with a 15K budget, this, to me, is unacceptable. You should get a top performance for your budget.

Also, remember to add ''sales tax'' when comparing online prices to B&M prices. Easy to forget until they ring you up

I feel like now i am an ''educated newbie'' in diamonds. Any other more ''expert'' opinions would be awesome!

 

[drkewl]

PS: my goal, with a similiar budget as yours, was to get an eyepopping diamond... one that, when compared to others in ''normal lighting situations'' would really stand out. I''m sure your diamond is certainly quite good... but don''t settle for good, go for great!

Best of luck!!!

 

[pvb99]

We started out thinking a 1.3ct stone was the size we wanted, but putting that 1.74ct on her finger made us realize thats the size we are going to need now

So now I have switched gears to find out if that stone is priced right. We will sacrifice cut for size a this point. It seems a little harder to search/compare for stones online that are not ideal stones.

 

[MissAva]

What about this 1.748 stone from WF it has a PS price of 14,626. What do you think? Oh and it scores a 1.4 on the HCA

 

[drkewl]

Well, to be honest i''d say its a decent price if the cert was accurate... there is a decent price jump from H to G in color and from VS to VVS in clarity and since the price you are being offered is a bit low, i''d suspect you''re not getting what the cert says. Close but not exact. In jewlery store lighting, most people couldn''t tell the difference between an F and an H or I faceup and I feel they use that to their advantage.

If you are cool with that go for it

Most important thing is that your wifey loves it! And she seems sold on it. All i''m saying is for that much $$$, be 100% sure you can live with it!

The stone Matatora posted is an example of a truly excellent performer. Thats top of the line for that size from a known reputable dealer with good prices. Just so you know, I''m not buying from WF (not trying to get you to buy from them or something, just offering my opinion)

 

[Kaleigh]

I love the one that Matatora posted. One thing about EGL is that they can be off on color as well as clarity. So if you really like that stone take it to an independant appraiser to make sure it is what the cert says it is. Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

 

[pvb99]

Matatora,

Thanks for finding that stone. We need to find a store where we can compare a stone of that quality to one like we found at the store today. I buy almost everything online, often sight unseen just based on collective feedback of people online. After reading posts here on and off, I thought we would trade size for cut. But after today, we need to find a place with some good ideal cut stones to compare next to a "very good" stone to see the difference. And to see if its worth another 3k Thanks for all the feedback!