Help- I think that I bought a hazy diamond- fluorescence "pictures"

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/29/2010 8:30:14 PM
Author: dreamer_d
Take it to a trusted appraiser and ask for their assessment.

Ditto, thats the best advice. But if you aren''t happy with the stone then I would be inclined to return it.

 

[diamond911]

I think that you are right and I will bring it for appraisal as I may want to find another with fluorescence as I do believe that these stones can be very beautiful if you get the right one... there is an EGL USA and IGI lab locally that can see me today. Would one of these 2 be more reliable than the other in your opinions especially where fluorescence is concerned?

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI 911,
Neither EGL or IGI is going to be able to offer you anything that will help you here.
Neither will an appraiser.
If you don''t like the way the diamond looks in the sun, and you plan on wearing it outside, that''s not going to change.

I''d suggest going to someplace where you might see some more stones- and look at an inert stone in sunlight to see if it does what the one you currently have does. Also possibly other fl stones to see how they react.

My experience is that not every fluorescent diamond dulls in sunlight. But some definitely do

 

[iota15]

Date: 4/30/2010 6:05:59 AM
Author: diamond911
Does anyone else think that this speckled effect is the 'pinpoints'; I know that it is SI1 but I was told that this is close to a VS as they are hardly noticeable. Here is a picture of the clarity plot- the 'cloud'is one of the tiny dots in a side facet- the few pinpoints are the other 3 dots noted. I was under the impression that if there were other inclusions such as additional pinpoints not noted on the clarity plot they would write 'additional pinpoints not shown' not 'pinpoints not shown'. Can any expert clarify this; could there be multiple hidden pinpoints that show up in sunlight or surface graining if it is not plotted by the GIA. Could these spots be by-products of the fluorescent reaction? I am no diamond expert by any means obviously, but I have a science degree and this gas talk brings be back to chemistry class somewhat and chemical reactions and their by-products.

Any more opinions on whether these dots and the lack of transparency are what one would expect in strong fluorescence diamond? I want to track another down but I don't want this to repeat itself with another stone.

I understand your quandry - you like fluoro but you're not sure if the fluoro is producing this negative effect. As the other posters you've read, and here have said, their fluoro stones don't necessarily have this effect. However, even if this fluoro stone is creating this negative effect, I don't think if you get another VSB or SB stone, it will be the same. Don't switch to medium if VSB or SB is indeed something you like. Each stone is different and there's no guarantee a medium would solve the problem.

Sure, get your current diamond appraised so you know what's wrong with it. Or, if necessary, you can save some money and when you select your new stone, have the appraiser check it out carefully in the sun and other conditions for the effect you are describing. Obviously not all fluro stones have this effect, if they do at all, and this is the only way to make sure you're not getting another gritty stone.

I also want to note - that seems like a very clean Si1 plot to me. I'm looking at Si1 stones as well, and the unploted pinpoints may very well have been a grade determining factor in your stone. Why would GIA write, "pinpoints not shown" if they had drawn all of the pinpoints onto your diagram.

I wish you the best on your next stone!

 

[diamond911]

Thanks for your input. I guess that I was incorrect in my understanding of the way that the GIA grades- I thought that everything that is there was plotted on my particular stone....if it wasn''t plotted wouldn''t the report would indicate "additional pinpoints are not shown" meaning additional pinpoints from what is actually plotted are present but not plotted.

Is there anyone familiar with GIA grading that can look at the plot pic that I posted who can comment on the wording- trying to figure out where the grainy appearance is coming from, the inclusions or the fluorescence so that I can buy another diamond.

 

[Lula]

Hi, again, diamond911. Have you contacted the vendor about this stone with your questions? I''m just curious, because at this point, without more photos of the diamond from different angles and different lights, and, even better, seeing the stone in person, none of us can say for certain what''s going on with your diamond and why it looks the way it does.

Some possibilities that have been put forward are:
1. Inclusions.
2. The natural darkening of a diamond -- all well-cut diamonds -- in the sunlight.
3. The rare possibility that fluorescence is causing a dullness in sunlight and/or that the stone was incorrectly graded.
4. The overall cut of your diamond.

All of these options could be ruled in or ruled out by a qualified appraiser (not laboratory, like IGI).

What I would do in your situation is go look at diamonds of various colors, cut grades, and clarity grades to determine if what you''re seeing is just a characteristic of all diamonds (ask to see the diamonds near a window in sunlight).

I''d return this stone to the vendor. Does this vendor have the ability to provide videos or photos of the stones they are selling? If not, you may be better off working either with a local vendor who will help you locate a stone more to your liking or working with one of the online vendors here who offers photos and videos and consultation with you on any stone they sell.

 

[diamond911]

Thanks for your recommendations. I had asked the vendor all kinds of questions before hand because I had read about possible rare effects, but there was no mention of a problem. They said that it were "no effects of fluoresence". As far as specs go, the diamond has a 56% table, 62.4 depth, 34.5 crown angle and 41 pavillion angle medium girdle, does that create any issue? It is GIA EX EX EX- it is very bright and sparkles like crazy when it is in indirect light but it starts showing the fluorescence fairly readily for example on cloudy day with low UV like 8 am this morning it is very pale purple.... but it has some transparency when it is pale in color- even under certain incandescent lighting it starts to get darker blue where you can see little splinters of colored flash popping through the darkness... in direct sunlight, it becomes splotchy and very dark blue almost black full of speckles , not localized to inclusions, speckles are everywhere...and foggy as some described it.

I am planning on dealing with a different vendor as you have suggested. Returning is a pain but the purpose of my questions is to try to understand what I should be shopping for...I have now started looking a med fluorescence then I found a post from someone else about haziness... now I am wavering because I do want a fluorescent stone but I''m nervous to end up with one like this. Thanks for your suggestion about checking out some other diamonds, I am heading to hearts of fire dealer tomorrow to check out some stones there and compare.

Maybe I will have a better idea then- I''m so sad because I thought that this was it with diamonds for a while.

 

[Lula]

Your stone sounds like it's well-cut -- GIA Ex-Ex-Ex. From your description of the diamond's appearance in other lighting, it does sound like a beauty. And, yes, I know returning a diamond is a pain -- I've done it myself, and while the return policies are great, it's just easier not to have to deal with it!

I would caution you, based on my experience with most retail stores. If they find out you bought a diamond online, you may hear all sorts of untrue and slanted stories about why buying online is not the way to get a beautiful diamond. Tune them out! You are on a research mission, and your goal is to look at other well-cut diamonds to train your eyes on what you like and don't like.

I'm hoping the jewelers you visit will allow you to view the diamonds outside in direct sunlight and in shade. That should help you narrow down what it is you're seeing in your diamond.

ETA: I just read your last post again; my diamond's fluorescence shows as blue. But I have heard other people describe fluorescent stones as "purple." Maybe blue fluorescence comes in different shades of blue/purple? I don't know.

Also, diamonds are pretty unattractive in full sunlight, if you look at them up close. They are black and dense-looking, but also show fire. But if someone is looking at your diamond from across a table, even in full sunlight, they will see white and colored flash. It took me awhile to get used to how weird well-cut diamonds look in sunlight. But speckled and foggy -- I'm not sure what's going on there.

 

[Rockdiamond]

911- the plot is remarkably inefficient at portraying how the imperfections will look IRL
it''s a 2 dimensional representation
it possible you are seeing SI imperfections, and that the fl haziness is making them easier to see

my experience is that diamonds can look amazing in direct sunlight
I do not agree that well cut diamonds look bad in sunlight
This is central to your situation

 

[Lula]

....

 

[Dreamer_D]

Honestly, we are all talking in circles here because WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE DIAMOND. This is why I think you need to find a knowledgeable independent appraiser who knows cut quality and who can look at the diamond and explain to you what you are seeing. Ignore al lthe advice here about what is or is not going on, we are just speculating as we cannot tell anything from the photos. All comments about what diamonds do or do not look like in sunlight or anywhere else are just our opinions.

Alternatively, just order a new stone and see what you think then.

 

[LGK]

Well, the thing that jumps out at me is that a cloud is one of the grade making inclusions. A cloud, of course, being a whole swarm of pinpoints. Also a really clean plot in an SI grade diamond is curious- generally that means that one of those inclusions is pretty major... and in this case I''d bet it''s the cloud.

I''d return it, and shop for another fluorescent diamond.

I had a diamond somewhere between Strong and Very Strong blue fluoro diamond to play with for about a year. It would sometimes go bluish in the sun. However, it was just reflecting the sky- anytime I saw blue in it, I saw blue in the other (non fluoro) diamond on my hand too. It did seem *whiter* than it should have been in some situations with UV. But I never saw the bluish tinge without it turning out to be the sky reflecting back at me, unless it was actually under a black light. I think some fluorescent diamonds just aren''t that reactive, or something.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 5/1/2010 1:24:41 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
Well, the thing that jumps out at me is that a cloud is one of the grade making inclusions. A cloud, of course, being a whole swarm of pinpoints. Also a really clean plot in an SI grade diamond is curious- generally that means that one of those inclusions is pretty major... and in this case I''d bet it''s the cloud.

I''d return it, and shop for another fluorescent diamond.

I had a diamond somewhere between Strong and Very Strong blue fluoro diamond to play with for about a year. It would sometimes go bluish in the sun. However, it was just reflecting the sky- anytime I saw blue in it, I saw blue in the other (non fluoro) diamond on my hand too. It did seem *whiter* than it should have been in some situations with UV. But I never saw the bluish tinge without it turning out to be the sky reflecting back at me, unless it was actually under a black light. I think some fluorescent diamonds just aren''t that reactive, or something.

Very astute observation!

 

[diamond911]

Thanks for your replies. I do believe that the cause is in fact the cloud/pinpoints becoming apparent when it fluoresces in UV light as you have suggested and that you can see them as it gets hazy. It is a really clean plot for an SI1.... maybe a little too good to be true. I also spent hours reading about this same hazy/grainy scenario in other posts on fluorescence (wow there are a gazillion of them!). Some of the other pros mentioned clarity and how it can become an issue in this same way. I am bringing it for an independent appraisal on Monday just so that give myself peace of mind of buying another fluorescent stone as at this time, that is my plan. Thanks for helping me decide to stick with it. Keeping my fingers crossed and will keep you posted.

 

[Cehrabehra]

My stone is a vs2 with no pinpoints... a couple tiny feathers along the edges and one microscopic cloud in the middle that I can only find with 20x. And it has speckles! It looks dark and murky in sunlight! As you can see on my avatar it isn''t a dark and murky stone....... and it has only *slight* fluorescence. So rest assured