HELP!! I broke my diamond!!!!!!!
- Thread starter laney
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Of course following this thread with interest as Laney is a client of ours.
A few important points and lessons to note here.
a. The value of a detailed appraisal. THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS ONLY BOUND TO REPLACE WHAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE APPRAISAL REPORT. While some peeps on the forum don''t feel a detailed anlaysis is necessary beyond a basic Sarin you are learning and seeing the value of a very detailed appraisal. When you have BrillianceScope results, Isee2 results, actual H&A photographs , Reflector results, detailed Sarin info, etc. of the stone in question. THIS INFORMATION BECOMES THE MINIMUM CRITERIA for replacement. All detailed information, photography, tech results, while valuable in the decision process is even more valuable in the replacement process. Most people don''t consider this during the purchase process as they feel they''ll never use it. Never say never. What the insurance company is committed to replace, if it is not included in your appraisal they are only committed to replace what is described. No more, no less.
b. Their replacement cost must therefore be based on that data. NOT the wholesale replacement cost on a common cut (which is most likely what they are basing their figures on) or even a standard GIA Ex/Ex or AGS Ideal (if its proper to even consider these as "standard"). Laney has a diamond that was handselected beyond the means of a GIA or AGS report. This is another reason why we value and place heavy emphasis on the informational aspect of the purchase and the content included in the appraisal. The more the better as this information helped protect Laney from getting a stone that was not up to par from what she had.
Laney if your insurance company would like a letter from me or would like to speak with me personally about your stone and the process that goes into selecting it let me know and I will accommodate. I''m with you each step of the way girl.
A few important points and lessons to note here.
a. The value of a detailed appraisal. THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS ONLY BOUND TO REPLACE WHAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE APPRAISAL REPORT. While some peeps on the forum don''t feel a detailed anlaysis is necessary beyond a basic Sarin you are learning and seeing the value of a very detailed appraisal. When you have BrillianceScope results, Isee2 results, actual H&A photographs , Reflector results, detailed Sarin info, etc. of the stone in question. THIS INFORMATION BECOMES THE MINIMUM CRITERIA for replacement. All detailed information, photography, tech results, while valuable in the decision process is even more valuable in the replacement process. Most people don''t consider this during the purchase process as they feel they''ll never use it. Never say never. What the insurance company is committed to replace, if it is not included in your appraisal they are only committed to replace what is described. No more, no less.
b. Their replacement cost must therefore be based on that data. NOT the wholesale replacement cost on a common cut (which is most likely what they are basing their figures on) or even a standard GIA Ex/Ex or AGS Ideal (if its proper to even consider these as "standard"). Laney has a diamond that was handselected beyond the means of a GIA or AGS report. This is another reason why we value and place heavy emphasis on the informational aspect of the purchase and the content included in the appraisal. The more the better as this information helped protect Laney from getting a stone that was not up to par from what she had.
Laney if your insurance company would like a letter from me or would like to speak with me personally about your stone and the process that goes into selecting it let me know and I will accommodate. I''m with you each step of the way girl.
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Ideal_Rock
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Laney....this thread has been SO interesting, and SO informative!! Thank you so much for sharing your saga!
It''s incredible that this whole adventure started less than a week ago, and it looks like the happy ending is already in sight!
THANK YOU!
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It''s incredible that this whole adventure started less than a week ago, and it looks like the happy ending is already in sight!
THANK YOU!
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moremoremore
Ideal_Rock
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J- Who in NY will provide an appraisal that you desribe? I feel that mine is lacking. If something happened to my stone and they insisted on replacing it, I'd want a modern cushion...so maybe I better update the ol' appraisal.
PS- I'm glad it all worked out Laney!!
PS- I'm glad it all worked out Laney!!
Jon is not incorrect at what he is saying....
However, I believe it is a more valuable lesson to more strongly consider an AS Agreed type policy. It is not based on replacing the lost or damaged diamond, it is paid promptly in cash for either the stated and insured amount OR 50% more than the stated amount, should the cost to replace be more than the original appraisal noted.
I realize many consumers here are more concerned with the potentially higher premium cost for this type of policy, but IF you do have a claim, the process of replacing it with a new diamond at your choice of who to get it from makes the claim process a lot less stressful and "painful".
I would think someone who had a loss is stressed enough over the loss. Knowing that you don''t have to run to the insurance company''s source for replacement... Isn''t the time and "aggravation" worth it?
Rockdoc
However, I believe it is a more valuable lesson to more strongly consider an AS Agreed type policy. It is not based on replacing the lost or damaged diamond, it is paid promptly in cash for either the stated and insured amount OR 50% more than the stated amount, should the cost to replace be more than the original appraisal noted.
I realize many consumers here are more concerned with the potentially higher premium cost for this type of policy, but IF you do have a claim, the process of replacing it with a new diamond at your choice of who to get it from makes the claim process a lot less stressful and "painful".
I would think someone who had a loss is stressed enough over the loss. Knowing that you don''t have to run to the insurance company''s source for replacement... Isn''t the time and "aggravation" worth it?
Rockdoc
curlygirl
Ideal_Rock
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Oh Laney, I''ve been following your saga with breathless anticipation. I''m so glad it all worked out for you! I too have a rider on my Allstate policy for my engagement ring so it was very informative to hear everything you had to go through with them. Fortunately, your Pricescope diploma came in handy and you didn''t let them sucker you into buying something you weren''t going to be satisifed with. Congratulations, you must be so relieved! Now, find that new stone!!!!
- Joined
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In NY mmm, I''ll be happy to accommodate as we are fairly close to your home. Otherwise if you were going to ship it out, RockDoc provides what is perhaps one of the most detailed appriasals I''ve ever seen. I would also note that Rich Sherwood, Dave Atlas and Neil Beatty also provide types of optical analysis which I would consider imperative to the replacement process as each of these appraisers provide analysis for light return and optical symmetry. Details, details, details... may seem a little meticulous up front but pays in the end and ultimately protects YOU the consumer. Especially PS type folk who for the most part LIKE to know all the nitty gritty details. The details in your appraisal hold the insurance companies to a set of minimum standards with which to find you a stone and as I stated ... the more the better. Haha... imagine sending them a virtual model?!?! That''s where the industry is heading... moreso than you guys know. Modeling is going to become more important in the role of online trading.
Peace,
moremoremore
Ideal_Rock
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Thanks J....and while I''m there I''ll have to pick up this little bauble
http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_495ct_g_si1_h%26a.htm
http://www.goodoldgold.com/2_495ct_g_si1_h%26a.htm
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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Exactly.......and there are several who offer it. It''s not limited to Chubb.
When we bought my stone, I called several insurance agents and was *very* clear on what I wanted: An "agreed amount/agreed value" policy that would pay out the agreed amount in the event of loss. NOT like kind/replacement.
You have to be firm on this want....some of the darn insurance people out there don''t even know they can get this! One of the agents I priced with said "oh, there''s no such thing." I insisted that there was, and explained how it works. He did his homework, and lo and behold, he found that two of the companies he writes for DO offer it. He said "I''ve been doing this 20 years - you learn something new every day."
Tell your agent that you want an "agreed amount/agreed value" policy that cashes out in the event of loss. You will be expected to submit an appraisal for the stone, and the appraisal amount is what you will both agree to for value. That is the amount your premiums will be based upon as well.
P.S. After this replacement experience, I''m beginning to see why typical appraisers inflate the cost of the stone by nearly 100%. If they know that the like kind/replacement is only going to cover wholesale cost, the only way to make the client whole is to over-appraise the jewelry so they get enough to ACTUALLY replace the item.
laney
Brilliant_Rock
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Date: 7/18/2005 6:58:49 AM
Author: Pyramid
Noticed that the diamond had a Thin girdle though
A B I G no no.
Where did you notice that?
My stone had a thin to medium girdle for the record.
And the strike that happened was above the girdle - not on it.
Yeah, didn''t you say it cleaved from the top?Date: 7/18/2005 9:21:31 AM
Author: laney
Date: 7/18/2005 6:58:49 AM
Author: Pyramid
Noticed that the diamond had a Thin girdle thoughA B I G no no.
Where did you notice that?
My stone had a thin to medium girdle for the record.
And the strike that happened was above the girdle - not on it.
AJ
Who are these companies that provide and As Agreed As Valued coverages?
My only thought here is that Chubb doesn''t require an appraisal, but usually just the cert, the receipts, description of the item if it is valued at under $ 50K.
It would be a very interesting help to the readers of the forum - if you got a copy of these company''s copy of the policy, and post them here - so they could be compared.
RE: Typical appraisers valuing for upwards of 100% ... I am not sure I understand the logic of this opinion. First the replacement type policies don''t replace at wholesale. They pay THEIR COST to REPLACE. Usually this is slightly more than the wholesale cost of the item. So if a diamond actually has a wholesale cost of $ 3000.00 and the consumer ( in a competitive market) paid $ 4000.00, and the appraisal valuation is $ 8000.00 ( 100% more than what the consumer paid) , hypothetically the diamond would probably have an Insurance company replacement cost of maybe $ 3400.00. This is what the Insurance company would pay, so how does appraising/valuing the item for $ 8000.00 have any " factual truth to it''s real cost"???
This just results in the consumer paying higher premiums than they should. In many cases for claims, the insurance company doesn''t disclose their cost to the insured who has a loss. They do this generally if the insured is insisting on cashing out, and many times since the replacement company knows the insured isn''t actually going to accept a replacement, this is low-balled. I have had several instances of this, where the replacement company even quoted prices at less than scrap value.
This has happend in the health insurance world as well, where some companies have deals with medical service providers to deeply discount their services, yet the insurance company claims they actually paid an amount that was higher than the actual amount paid to the medical service provider. This was publicized a few years ago in cases filed by various attorneys general against companies that did this.
I do agree that in many instances the agents of insurance companies really are well informed about the details of jewelry coverages. It is commendable that in your situation you stuck with the intent of getting the proper coverages for your items.
Rockdoc
laney
Brilliant_Rock
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Well, I don''t think I got a bad deal here from my insurance company
Let me say that, I had 2 apprasials. I insured my ring at the higher apprasial price -simply due to more detail on that apprasial.
That appraisal was 65% MORE than I actually paid for the stone.
Yes, I did pay that premium for that higher value.
My insurance company will provide a replacement by thier selected jeweler - or cash out. I ended up cashing out.
Although I did not get 100% of my "insured/apprasied" value, I did get 85%.
This allows me (on the internet) to replace my stone with no problem.
So, my story is a good one. Although I paid a higher premium for that appraisal value - I think in the end it covered me so that I could replace exactly what I had.
I don''t think if I had 100% over the actual price that would have changed my outcome - however the numbers worked in my favor here.
Let me say that, I had 2 apprasials. I insured my ring at the higher apprasial price -simply due to more detail on that apprasial.
That appraisal was 65% MORE than I actually paid for the stone.
Yes, I did pay that premium for that higher value.
My insurance company will provide a replacement by thier selected jeweler - or cash out. I ended up cashing out.
Although I did not get 100% of my "insured/apprasied" value, I did get 85%.
This allows me (on the internet) to replace my stone with no problem.
So, my story is a good one. Although I paid a higher premium for that appraisal value - I think in the end it covered me so that I could replace exactly what I had.
I don''t think if I had 100% over the actual price that would have changed my outcome - however the numbers worked in my favor here.
diamondlil
Ideal_Rock
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So in the end, you still ended up with a cash-out of a little more than your original stone cost? That''s comforting to know. I''m looking forward to a new thread on your diamond search.
AChiOAlumna
Brilliant_Rock
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laney...I''m so glad this worked out for you!! As I previously posted, I also have a rider policy with Allstate and living through your experience vicariously gives me peace of mind that Allstate will work with you to get you want you deserve...I''ve also been paying premiums based on my appraisal, making it higher, but if I ever have such an unfortunate situation, it sounds like I''ll be satisfied in the end...
aljdewey
Ideal_Rock
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I wouldn''t know for other areas of the country, but I reside in the North Shore (north of Boston) area.
I was able to secure an Agreed Amount policy through the agent that was written through Cambridge Mutual. The cost was higher than replacement.....at the time, it was 1.10 per 1K for replacement and 1.70 per 1K for agreed value, but that was worth it to me.
When I bought a house, I looked to go with an insurance company that also offered agreed value so I could consolidate my insurance through one carrier. I went with Safety Insurance, who also offered agreed value for $1.50 per 1K.
I''m sure there are others varying by area.
People talk about Chubb like it''s the be all/end all......and maybe it is, but they aren''t the only carrier that will agree to a cash out policy. Oh....and you mention that Chubb doesn''t require an appraisal. Maybe not, but what trouble you save in getting the appraisal, you spend in sweat equity trying to find a #$)(*&#$ Chubb agent to sell a stand-alone policy.
I don''t know if all the other cash-outs *require* an appraisal. Mine asked if I had one, and since I had used Rich Sherwood, I replied that I did. That was the value I wanted us to agree to, so I submitted it.
Sorry - I don''t have a way to scan policies to post them here, but I''m sure any interested party could pick up the phone and get details.
I''ve said this before. I''ve had two bad experiences with Chubb. One involving my elderly parents, a garage that was getting ready to fall & a day going by with no one coming around to EVEN look at the claim. My Architect husband finally got on the phone and said that he believe the building condemned & that Chubb will take all responsiblity for any injury and damage caused by failing to act quick enough. The guy Chubbs got to repair was incompetent. What a mess. Yet, I''ve ''ner a problem with Allstate - in fact, just the opposite.
laney
Brilliant_Rock
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Well, the search. I found some perfectly nice 1.5 ct F SI1 stones... but then.. I started looking a little larger, since, as my hubby said.. now''s the time to upgrade...
And I found a spectacular 1.75 that caught my eye.. but I just mentioned that for a teensy bit more maybe we could swing a 2ct. And to my surprise he said.. let''s do it. So I went to visit three lovely stones (1.5, 1.75, 2.0) for a brief 20 minutes.
The thing is, for the 2 ct, I''d have to go from an F to an H. I''m pretty sure I can handle that. The stone was beeeautiful. So was the 1.75 (which is an F). So I''ve been agonizing over the decision.
BTW - I recieved the check today! Already. So we''ll see how long it takes to cash this baby! lol!
And I found a spectacular 1.75 that caught my eye.. but I just mentioned that for a teensy bit more maybe we could swing a 2ct. And to my surprise he said.. let''s do it. So I went to visit three lovely stones (1.5, 1.75, 2.0) for a brief 20 minutes.
The thing is, for the 2 ct, I''d have to go from an F to an H. I''m pretty sure I can handle that. The stone was beeeautiful. So was the 1.75 (which is an F). So I''ve been agonizing over the decision.
BTW - I recieved the check today! Already. So we''ll see how long it takes to cash this baby! lol!
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