Help ... Buyers remorse

[diamondseeker2006]

You can correct me if I am wrong upgradingmama....until you came here, you had seen a limited number of choices of cushions, is that correct? And you came here and learned there were other types of cushions, and you found that YOU like some better than others? I venture to say that most of us were in the same boat until we came here. We thought our "good" cut diamonds were just fine until we saw better ones! There is nothing whatsoever wrong with refining our tastes as we learn more about other options. I am fine with a $10 bottle of wine, but if I start drinking the $25 bottles for awhile, I might not really want to go back to the old $10 bottles, ya know? I may have missed some posts, but I don't recall seeing anyone saying her diamond is terrible. She seems plenty capable of coming to her own conclusions about what she likes without undue influence from others. Very few people have exposure to the numerous styles of cushions we know about here.

Rockdiamond...Jon will sell crushed ice cushions all day long if that is what his customer prefers! He is in business after all!

(Yes, BN and JA are connected with diamond suppliers and you'll see many of their stones listed by other vendors.)

 

[upgradingmama]

OP, have you asked your jeweler to pull several different facet patterns for you to see in person, side by side? I ask this because I also used james allen when trying to figure out what I liked, but seeing stones in person ( actual size as opposed to blown up or in beauty shots) I was drawn to different things. I originally felt that I absolutely wanted an 8 main (from the videos and pictures it seemed just my taste) but then in person I liked a 4 main better. Things are often different in real life, so if the jeweler is willing to work with you and take a bit of time to pull different patterns for you to see, it may help a lot- and may also, in the end, result in you liking what you have now best.

Good luck!

That's a great idea... I haven't heard back yet today but I'm hoping I will!! BTW - Your ring is so pretty!

 

[upgradingmama]

This is the result of an issue I've been bringing up for a long time,
A video produced by a seller to promote what they sell is being used as an educational piece- when is it is aimed at selling and promoting a particular type of diamond by insulting another type of cut. The manner in which the diamonds are photographed puts a "chunky" style stone in favorable lighting- but that same methodology puts the modern cushion at a large disadvantage.
So, people are looking at a Ford video explaining why Chevy is bad- and using Ford's tests of Chevy to malign them.
A small vocal minority keeps on advising others based on the mis-information and people end up hating diamonds they loved and purchased based on the way they looked.

Upgrademama
1) there's other sites that DO have good photos of modern cushions. In general a stone sitting on it's pavilion is not the best way to see the type of sparkle a "crushed ice" diamond has. Your pictures will not really have enough meanginful info to make any assessment in my opinion- maybe Jon will comment.
2) you can NOT gain knowledge about the physical appearance and light performance of a 3ct cushion based on the GIA facet plot. Even if it's got EX polish and symmetry.

This might not get you to where you want to go.
You are correct that exchanging a stone from a custom made setting may be very difficult- but maybe you can gain a little insight as to what brought you to the brink.
Go into Tiffany's, Harry Winston or Graff- or look at them online to see lovely modern cushions.

Thanks! There is definitely some brainwashing and I'm aware of that....I definitely need to take a step back and look at some in person. Thank you all for the great information...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Brainwashing???? Oh my gosh.

 

[upgradingmama]

You can correct me if I am wrong upgradingmama....until you came here, you had seen a limited number of choices of cushions, is that correct? And you came here and learned there were other types of cushions, and you found that YOU like some better than others? I venture to say that most of us were in the same boat until we came here. We thought our "good" cut diamonds were just fine until we saw better ones! There is nothing whatsoever wrong with refining our tastes as we learn more about other options. I am fine with a $10 bottle of wine, but if I start drinking the $25 bottles for awhile, I might not really want to go back to the old $10 bottles, ya know? I may have missed some posts, but I don't recall seeing anyone saying her diamond is terrible. She seems plenty capable of coming to her own conclusions about what she likes without undue influence from others. Very few people have exposure to the numerous styles of cushions we know about here.

Rockdiamond...Jon will sell crushed ice cushions all day long if that is what his customer prefers! He is in business after all!

(Yes, BN and JA are connected with diamond suppliers and you'll see many of their stones listed by other vendors.)

Thank you diamond seeker for "getting me"! Yes... 100%

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay good. You have to ignore the vendor conflict. Jonathan will sell anyone any kind of diamond they want. He sells several different kinds of cushions but specializes in well cut diamonds of different types. He stocks some really pretty modern cushions so he is absolutely NOT against them. The videos really help people who live at a distance and have no opportunity to see a selection of well cut diamonds. I started here with an ideal cut round and eventually switched to a newly cut ideal cut antique style stone. I'll probably switch again before it's all over, or get another diamond! We know you are not buying from any vendors here, so we have no reason to steer you to particular vendors. It would just help your jeweler if you were able to choose 3-4 stones you were interested in seeing to further narrow down what you like. I probably sent for 5-6 stones from GOG before I chose the stone I have now.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The term "brainwashing" is certainly a strong one...
DS- don't you think that newbies coming for advice will place a lot of weight on a post from someone who has 20k+ posts?
If there's a preponderance of 20K+ posters all giving the same advice there can certainly be a "group-think" mentality which will place undo influence on newbies- also any discussion of "crushed ice" is completely biased from the start- again, posters who spend the most time here are usually quick to put forth their opinion.
Just as an example- when someone comes to PS asking about a Radiant Cut diamond, how many times are they advised against the cut right out of the box?
"Are you sure she wants a radiant- they're not very popular" is a normal advice given.

This all adds up to a lack of balanced advice given on certain issues- crushed ice in particular is one of the top among them.

OP- as you can see, some of the regular posters are very dedicated to certain sellers.

 

[upgradingmama]

The term "brainwashing" is certainly a strong one...
DS- don't you think that newbies coming for advice will place a lot of weight on a post from someone who has 20k+ posts?
If there's a preponderance of 20K+ posters all giving the same advice there can certainly be a "group-think" mentality which will place undo influence on newbies- also any discussion of "crushed ice" is completely biased from the start- again, posters who spend the most time here are usually quick to put forth their opinion.
Just as an example- when someone comes to PS asking about a Radiant Cut diamond, how many times are they advised against the cut right out of the box?
"Are you sure she wants a radiant- they're not very popular" is a normal advice given.

This all adds up to a lack of balanced advice given on certain issues- crushed ice in particular is one of the top among them.

OP- as you can see, some of the regular posters are very dedicated to certain sellers.

Yes, group think is what I meant. I didn't mean to offend anyone. Everyone has been incredibly helpful and I am grateful. And, the group think is very valued to me as a lot of folks here are very well informed. In this case, I am thinking they are right which takes me back to the buyers remorse

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * We thought our "good" cuts were fine until we saw better ones! There is nothing whatsoever wrong with refining our tastes as we learn more about other options. I am fine with a $10 bottle of wine, but if I start drinking the $25 bottles for awhile, I might not really want to go back to the old $10 bottles, ya know? I may have missed some posts, but I don't recall seeing anyone saying her diamond is terrible.

Well this is the kind of comment that I find disconcerting (and I say this as someone who doesn't much care for brilliants in general). Although you did not offer a grounded critique, on its own merits, of this particular modified brilliant cushion, you drew an analogy between cheap and more expensive bottles of wine. Can you see why that comes across as biased in favor of your own preference for a different kind of cushion cut & deems the other as inferior?
mama, I think it's great that you're taking up dollyanjuli's suggestion that you view a variety of stones in person Hope you find it interesting -- and fun!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The term "brainwashing" is certainly a strong one...
DS- don't you think that newbies coming for advice will place a lot of weight on a post from someone who has 20k+ posts?
If there's a preponderance of 20K+ posters all giving the same advice there can certainly be a "group-think" mentality which will place undo influence on newbies- also any discussion of "crushed ice" is completely biased from the start- again, posters who spend the most time here are usually quick to put forth their opinion.
Just as an example- when someone comes to PS asking about a Radiant Cut diamond, how many times are they advised against the cut right out of the box?
"Are you sure she wants a radiant- they're not very popular" is a normal advice given.

This all adds up to a lack of balanced advice given on certain issues- crushed ice in particular is one of the top among them.

OP- as you can see, some of the regular posters are very dedicated to certain sellers.

For the record for all concerned, just LAST week I was inquiring about a specific kind of yellow diamond from David because colored diamonds is one of his specialties. I try to use vendors who carry the kinds of diamonds I am interested in. However, in spite of trying to extend an olive branch (considering this topic has come up before), I see that was a futile idea.

Yes, I certainly have had 10 years of trust and good interactions with a several vendors here and I absolutely will defend them if needed. All the vendors are in the business of selling diamonds, and some actually provide extra tools to help distant buyers narrow down what they want. Much better than buying blind.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks for considering us DS.
If, however, you believed that I would compromise my beliefs to sell a diamond, well, no.

I do find it interesting that you're defnding Jon, who is not under attack in any way. As a seller he has the right/responsibility to showcase his wares however he sees fit. It's not the videos that are the problem, it's how they are referred to as educational which is the issue.
The vidoes are very nice advertisments, but my points about how the diamonds are photographed are very much pertinant to the discussion.
Any photo or video is a compromise. The fact is that the differences in the way each type of diamond uses the light make neccesary different methods to proprly capture the beauty.

Like pictures of human models- we can surely find crushed ice pics that are more, and less complimetary.

 

[flyingpig]

Just as an example- when someone comes to PS asking about a Radiant Cut diamond, how many times are they advised against the cut right out of the box?
"Are you sure she wants a radiant- they're not very popular" is a normal advice given.

This is the single most important question that must be asked, for any shape, any carat, and any clarity/color. I don't see any issue with this, especially for 'unpopular" shapes like a radiant. It is a legit question.

Many don't buy or recommend fancy shaped diamonds because of uncertainty, and the lack of information that the diamond industry and many diamond vendors have deliberately failed to provide to their customers for the most informed decision.

In regards to GOG videos, I always find them very objective and informative and, yes, educational. Sure, they are great marketing tools, ultimately, to attract customers to GOG and sell their diamonds. If any trade person finds this effective, by the means, please make youtube videos, advertise using appropriate light performance testing tools, and educate us, and sell your diamonds. I am interested in fancy shaped diamonds as well. It benefits those customers looking for quality diamonds and vendors who are honest with their customers.
I always find it very odd that nobody else does this except GOG and Jannpaul. Their videos are referred as educational, because the diamond industry as whole, failed to produce any educational video.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

* * * We thought our "good" cuts were fine until we saw better ones! There is nothing whatsoever wrong with refining our tastes as we learn more about other options. I am fine with a $10 bottle of wine, but if I start drinking the $25 bottles for awhile, I might not really want to go back to the old $10 bottles, ya know? I may have missed some posts, but I don't recall seeing anyone saying her diamond is terrible.

Well this is the kind of comment that I find disconcerting (and I say this as someone who doesn't much care for brilliants in general). Although you did not offer a grounded critique, on its own merits, of this particular modified brilliant cushion, you drew an analogy between cheap and more expensive bottles of wine. Can you see why that comes across as biased in favor of your own preference for a different kind of cushion cut & deems the other as inferior?
mama, I think it's great that you're taking up dollyanjuli's suggestion that you view a variety of stones in person Hope you find it interesting -- and fun!!

I'll redo my analogy since my intent was not to offend you, Molly (The OP has already confirmed that I "get" what she is after.):
I bought a single kind of wine at $10 a bottle for years, but I joined a wine forum and someone suggested several new brands that I had never heard of also at $10 a bottle. Lucky for me, they are outstanding!!! Thank goodness for the wine forum for educating me on different wines so I now can enjoy wonderful wines that are even better than my old favorite!!!

I didn't know she was considering other styles of cushions until she posted this thread. If it turns out she loves the cushion she has the most, then that is fantastic! It will be so much easier! But I am also happy for her that she can explore her options, and if she finds she prefers another style and finds a diamond she really LOVES, then that's great, too!

 

[dollyanjuli]

OP, have you asked your jeweler to pull several different facet patterns for you to see in person, side by side? I ask this because I also used james allen when trying to figure out what I liked, but seeing stones in person ( actual size as opposed to blown up or in beauty shots) I was drawn to different things. I originally felt that I absolutely wanted an 8 main (from the videos and pictures it seemed just my taste) but then in person I liked a 4 main better. Things are often different in real life, so if the jeweler is willing to work with you and take a bit of time to pull different patterns for you to see, it may help a lot- and may also, in the end, result in you liking what you have now best.

Good luck!

That's a great idea... I haven't heard back yet today but I'm hoping I will!! BTW - Your ring is so pretty!

Thank you! And even though this thread is getting a bit derailed here and there (as happens on every forum with passionate people) the main thing is you find the stone that speaks to YOU.

I have plenty of unpopular opinions but I still adore pricescope for opening my eyes to what is out there in the world. I love my ring and my stone but there are many here that, for them, it wouldn't be the one. And that is ok! Because I feel like i spent the time educating myself and looking around to make me feel good about my final decision. Do I sometimes second guess myself- absolutely. I have recently decided I should do all rose gold- hahahahah. But that's what looking at these forums does, and even that is ok. I am so happy you contacted your jeweler so you can see some other stones in person- also, even though your setting is custom made don't think the new stone (if you choose to switch) needs to be 100% the exact dimensions, there is a smidge of wiggle room on what can still fit really nicely in there. Your jeweler should be able to help with this as well.

Keep us posted. Your ring is just stunning BTW- a 3 Carat, bright white cushion in a blingtastic halo? Loveeeee it! You have the kind of ring most people can only even dream of, so keep that in mind as you continue on your journey

 

[Rockdiamond]

mama- you've gotten great advice- look at as many stones as you can- if possible, with an open mind. I agree that your ring looks STUNNING
I truly believe the motovation of all the participants is to help you.
My perspective as a tradesperson is a bit different.

There's a focus on certain types of stones here making them seem like the hottest thing out there.
In fact, in terms of sales- either carats, or number of stones, Radiant cuts are far more popular than newly cut antique style cushions in the market as a whole.

In terms of the representation, the most common interpretation of reflector technology, as it currently exists, brings conclusions that favor one type of stone over another. Chunky over Crushed Ice. This comes into play in cushions, radiant cuts and princess cuts. That makes reflectors a poor choice even if a seller wants to provide the most complete info on Fancy Shapes.
Of course many sellers are not at all interested in providing as complete info as possible, believing it will hurt sales.

But the concern being raised about "groupthink" is well grounded, and it takes the pendulum too far in the other direction IMO.

flyingpig- funny you mentoned the other seller who has basically copied Jon's techniques. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
But there's many thousands of detailed videos on youtube of many other sellers offering videos.

 

[queradas]

In general a stone sitting on it's pavilion is not the best way to see the type of sparkle a "crushed ice" diamond has.

I think it is the proper way to view all diamonds intended for engagement rings. Women generally wear their diamonds in rings where the diamond pavilion is face down and it is mostly covered or at best partially exposed by the setting.

Maybe not the easiest view to sell them but certainly the most accurate to simulate what the diamond will look like when worn on her finger.

 

[flyingpig]

flyingpig- funny you mentoned the other seller who has basically copied Jon's techniques. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
But there's many thousands of detailed videos on youtube of many other sellers offering videos.

Could you (or anyone) provide me a link, please? I am aware of WF, and BG have some educational/buying guide videos. Are there other sellers who do this? especially on fancy shaped diamonds? It will be highly appreciated.

 

[MollyMalone]

I'll redo my analogy since my intent was not to offend you, Molly

Oh, no need to redo your analogy for my sake; I didn't think you were intending to offend me (or anyone else) & I didn't take it personally, wouldn't be flapped even if I owned a modified brilliant cushion.

Rather, mine was a "big picture" comment on posts which come across as tarring all modified brilliant cushion cuts -- as a "flavor," regardless of how well cut for the genre a particular stone might be -- as inherently, qualitatively inferior rather than a matter of personal preference.

So that's why I would amend your subsequent analogy to
I bought Riesling wine at $10 a bottle for years, but I joined a wine forum and people there suggested I try several other kinds of white wines that I had never heard of, also at $10 a bottle. Thanks to that forum and my auditions of their recommendations, I now enjoy wonderful wines that I like even better than my old favorite!

 

[queradas]

flyingpig- funny you mentoned the other seller who has basically copied Jon's techniques. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
But there's many thousands of detailed videos on youtube of many other sellers offering videos.

Could you (or anyone) provide me a link, please? I am aware of WF, and BG have some educational/buying guide videos. Are there other sellers who do this? especially on fancy shaped diamonds? It will be highly appreciated.

JannPaul was what was being referred to but I think they are a B&M shop in Singapore who does a little bit of advertising or "educating" with youtube videos but doesn't list online.

 

[queradas]

In fact, in terms of sales- either carats, or number of stones, Radiant cuts are far more popular than newly cut antique style cushions in the market as a whole.

The ratio of Cushions to Radiant cut on offer in the "market as a whole" is 3:1 or 4:1 Cushion over Radiant (roughly from a search on Bluenile). Considering that the same rough can cut a Radiant or a Cushion this tells us a lot about popularity.

http://member.rapnet.com/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=52186&ArticleTitle=The+Rise+of+Fancies

That makes reflectors a poor choice even if a seller wants to provide the most complete info on Fancy Shapes.
Of course many sellers are not at all interested in providing as complete info as possible, believing it will hurt sales.

It looks like you don't provide them in your listings so do you believe it will hurt your sales if you do? Or do you prefer to not to provide as much information as possible for other reasons?

But the concern being raised about "groupthink" is well grounded, and it takes the pendulum too far in the other direction IMO.

Well there is a bias with the Diamond Dock and "groupthink" there is even a bias in "educational" videos shot in the Diamond Dock even when there is no commentary just comparisons. Take the diamonds out of the dock in abundant natural light and the contrast in performance is less obvious.

I'm not sure the "group" fully understands that the dock diminishes the relative brightness of lower angle reflections given where its strong light sources are. This favour diamonds that return high angle light (to many a reasonable construct), not something someone would agree with if your environment isn't "lit from above".

 

[upgradingmama]

Update: I connected with the jeweler and it would be another $3k all else being equal. I don't want to go down in clarity or color so I'm going to stick with it. Of course the minute I voiced concerns here and to the jeweler I started getting non stop compliments. Thanks for the advice and comments. Much appreciated. Here are some fun pics to show its beauty...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It's certainly a gorgeous ring, and you did your due diligence which is good, and now you can just enjoy your ring!

 

[E-W-johnson]

65.9 for a depth is way to deep. Look for something that is 62 or less. As for the setting the setting is a Tiffany replica, it is simple and classic and any girl will love it. If you're on blue Nile their signature ideal is the best way to go but slightly expensive. The most important thing to pay attention to is an high quality cut so you get a beautiful stone that you can't stop looking at. JA and BN both have great stones that you can trust. Also check out white flash.

 

[upgradingmama]

65.9 for a depth is way to deep. Look for something that is 62 or less. As for the setting the setting is a Tiffany replica, it is simple and classic and any girl will love it. If you're on blue Nile their signature ideal is the best way to go but slightly expensive. The most important thing to pay attention to is an high quality cut so you get a beautiful stone that you can't stop looking at. JA and BN both have great stones that you can trust. Also check out white flash.

I traded this stone a long time ago... not sure why you are responding now? Also, it's strange that you are suggesting blue nile signature ideal on several posts...

 

[lovedogs]

65.9 for a depth is way to deep. Look for something that is 62 or less. As for the setting the setting is a Tiffany replica, it is simple and classic and any girl will love it. If you're on blue Nile their signature ideal is the best way to go but slightly expensive. The most important thing to pay attention to is an high quality cut so you get a beautiful stone that you can't stop looking at. JA and BN both have great stones that you can trust. Also check out white flash.

I traded this stone a long time ago... not sure why you are responding now? Also, it's strange that you are suggesting blue nile signature ideal on several posts...

Lol I had the same thoughts....and only 11 posts. Seems fishy.