Help/ advice on Natural Sapphire Store e-rings or alternatives

[miclane05]

Ok, I am completely clueless when it comes to jewelry and engagement rings, and have tried to read a lot of the recent posts here for answers. What I currently know is that I am in the market for an untreated natural sapphire engagement ring and my price range is probably around 4-5K. I think I would prefer a nicer stone over a larger stone with inclusions, and my girlfriend''s ring size is 6, so I think her hand size is somewhat average. Also, I think I''d prefer the setting in platinum.

I''ve read a lot of reviews about the Natural Sapphire Company and understand that most people seem to like their service, but say that some of the stones aren''t cut well and can be pricey. At the same time, I''m not aware of many alternatives for a large selection of untreated blue sapphires. So far, I''ve found 6 sapphires on their site that seem to fit my price range after setting, and I''ve picked out 4 of their settings and 3 from Brian Gavin (I''ve read a lot of posts here that say his settings are good, though they might be too pricey for me) that I like a lot. Was hoping that some of you guys could lend your expertise about the stones, potential settings, alternatives I might want to consider, and anything else that a guy with my complete lack of knowledge in this field should know. I considered trying to make an appointment in the store''s New York showroom, but since its almost a 5 hour drive and they aren''t open on weekends, that just isn''t possible right now.

Potential Stones:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3448
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3501
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3557
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3526
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3560
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B2853

Top two TNSC settings:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/Pave/stoneid=JS833W14
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/MultiStone%20with%20Pave/stoneid=JS156W14

Two possible alternatives:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/MultiStone/stoneid=JS214W14
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/Pave/stoneid=JS229W14

Brian Gavin settings:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5453
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5439
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5372

I really appreciate the help and look forward to hear everyone''s thoughts.

 

[Arcadian]

Date: 2/1/2010 3:20:07 PM
Author:miclane05
Ok, I am completely clueless when it comes to jewelry and engagement rings, and have tried to read a lot of the recent posts here for answers. What I currently know is that I am in the market for an untreated natural sapphire engagement ring and my price range is probably around 4-5K. I think I would prefer a nicer stone over a larger stone with inclusions, and my girlfriend's ring size is 6, so I think her hand size is somewhat average. Also, I think I'd prefer the setting in platinum.

I've read a lot of reviews about the Natural Sapphire Company and understand that most people seem to like their service, but say that some of the stones aren't cut well and can be pricey. At the same time, I'm not aware of many alternatives for a large selection of untreated blue sapphires. So far, I've found 6 sapphires on their site that seem to fit my price range after setting, and I've picked out 4 of their settings and 3 from Brian Gavin (I've read a lot of posts here that say his settings are good, though they might be too pricey for me) that I like a lot. Was hoping that some of you guys could lend your expertise about the stones, potential settings, alternatives I might want to consider, and anything else that a guy with my complete lack of knowledge in this field should know. I considered trying to make an appointment in the store's New York showroom, but since its almost a 5 hour drive and they aren't open on weekends, that just isn't possible right now.

Potential Stones:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3448
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3501
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3557
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3526
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3560
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B2853


Top two TNSC settings:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/Pave/stoneid=JS833W14
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/MultiStone%20with%20Pave/stoneid=JS156W14

Two possible alternatives:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/MultiStone/stoneid=JS214W14
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/Pave/stoneid=JS229W14


Brian Gavin settings:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5453
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5439
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5372

I really appreciate the help and look forward to hear everyone's thoughts.

Fixed em for you.

-A

 

[Arcadian]

My responses are in red

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3448
This one is really nice. I really like the color and overall shape. Be aware though that all 4 sides are not square. It won't pose an issue with any of your settings, just that you're aware of it.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3501
THis stone has some pretty visible banding. I wouldn't chose this one for an engagement ring.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3557
This one dosen't have the banding issue that can plague an otherwise nice sapphire. If there's banding, you don't want to be able to see that in the face up position. Not perfectly round either, but is very close and most people won't notice. Looks to me that there's a bit of violet in the stone, but I admittedly like the color.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3526
Personally I like this one. This lighter blue, but also very even throughout. Be sure that she also likes a lighter blue if you choose this.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3560
Good blue, I see a hint if banding but nothing terrible. It also looks to be cut well. Its perfectly round.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B2853
Its not perfectly square but good enough. Color is ok. I like the first cushion you posted as far as color than this one (its a personal opinion though)


Top two TNSC settings:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/Pave/stoneid=JS833W14
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/MultiStone%20with%20Pave/stoneid=JS156W14


Two possible alternatives:
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/MultiStone/stoneid=JS214W14 /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/30.gif[/img] does have a lot of oomph to it. but she could find it a bit busy so it would be best to check if its her style. a wedding band may not sit flush.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Mountings/Rings/Pave/stoneid=JS229W14


Brian Gavin settings:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5453font> I love this one too. I think it works well with rounds, a cushion? maybe. Wedding band shouuld sit either close to flush or flush, but ask them about that.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5439
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5372

There's a lot of very experienced people here who know WAY more about sapphires than I do, but hopefully this will give you a good start.

-A

 

[AustenNut]

Of the sapphires, my favorites are stones 1 & 4. Arcadian is right that the first is not perfectly square, the lower right corner is a bit off with its symmetry. But I still like the overall look of the stone.

As far as the settings go, do you have any idea of what style your girlfriend prefers? Some people like 3-stone rings (or others with sidestones) while others prefer more of a solitaire look (with or without diamonds on the band). I''d say that would help to narrow your focus on what kind of settings would work well.

P.S. Thanks, Arcadian, for making all of the links clickable!

 

[centrc]

http://rwwise.com/products/id|1650

Check this one out.

or this one

http://rwwise.com/products/id|1647

First one is awesome.

 

[miclane05]

Thanks so much for the comments so far and also thanks for making my links work. I haven''t posted on this board before so I haven''t figured out how to fix things like that. You mention that some of the stones, one in particular, has visible banding. What is it? That was actually my front-runner stone so I''m already glad that you pointed out the flaw. The fourth stone, B3526, is probably the lightest I could go, as I know she likes medium to dark blue sapphires. I think that one would be dark enough, but certainly wouldn''t consider anything lighter. I do think the first stone (B344, that you gave positive comments on, is quite nice but was worried about it since its much cheaper per carat than some of the others.

As for the settings, I know that she doesn''t want something too plain and likes the pave styles and engraving/ detailing on the sides. In seeing some vintage or antique rings before, her focus always turns directly to the engraving/ detailing. Of the Brian Gavin settings, I''m quite sure she would love the Engraved Cathedral one. I also know that she commented positively about a setting similar to the the first TNSC one, JS833W14, that we saw in a store about a year ago. I figure that the engraving and side stones on the JS156W14 and JS214W14 setting would also appeal to her. The last setting, the JS229, does look a bit too busy since neither of us are into really flashy things, but I wasn''t sure if it would look less busy and flashy in person. Beyond those preferences, I don''t think she has a 3 stone vs. solitaire preference.

The Brian Gavin rep this afternoon said that the engraved cathedral setting could accommodate round or cushion stones, though I didn''t even know to ask about how a wedding band would fit next to an engagement ring. I just assumed that I''d have another year to figure out the band part and didn''t realize that some might not fit.

 

[miclane05]

CentRC, I think the second stone is a bit out of my budget after pricing in a platinum setting, though the first one does look great. At almost 3K per carat, that seems more than any other stones I''ve seen so far. Is the quality that much better? Are you familiar with that site. Have people been happy with them in the past?

 

[Arcadian]

I think finding out if the band will sit flush is a good idea now, even though you may not have a band picked out. If you look in the Show Me The Ring forum, it can sometimes be quite the nightmare finding a wedding band that works with the engagement ring.

Banding is where you can see what appears to be stripes across a stone. Thats not a bad thing in and of itself, its only bad if its visible when the stone is face up. Were the color more even, that would be a front runner stone! At the same time, you''re going to pay a bit more because its round.

If sapphires were rare, I''d tell you to go for it, but I really can''t because you can really do much better. It may be worth it to you to see it in person if you really like it though, but only you can make that determination.

The first one may be cheaper per ct because its not considered the ideal color blue. On my screen it goes toward violet.
If you want straight no chaser blue, this is not going to be the stone. However, if you nor she is color sensitive, it may not be a big deal either way. In these types of stones and at its size, the color and will reflect in the price usually.

B3560 is an ok stone, some minor banding but it may be worth checking out in person. She will probably like the color as you might. However, notice the mm size of the stone because it will be smaller.


While I''m on that subject, check the mm sizes of all the stones you''re looking at, and try not to concentrate too hard on ct weight. mm size will tell you how big it will look across her finger.

Sapphires are cut to get as much color as possible while keeping as much weight as possible.





-A

 

[centrc]

Miclane

I went to the natural sapphire company (I live in NYC) just a month and a half ago. I looked at many sapphires, including blue (I was purchasing a ring for my wife). My wife was interesting in a padparadsha stone, for which they didn''t have any in the color I liked. I ordered the stone from Richard Wise (the site I linked you) and I must say it is simply stunning. I had it set by TNSC and they were very accommodating. It is true that TNSC didn''t that that many super ideal cuts, but I am assuming that is because untreated sapphires are rare and unlike diamonds, color is most important.

I think you will find the site trustworthy. Richard has written a book on the gem trade and is a frequent visitor of pricescope.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ring.133390/ <-- This is my experience, including pictures.

If you call Richard, he will be happy to educate you as well. He talked to me quite a bit even though I was only making a small purchase. I think he is in Tuscon this week though.. at a gem show, so you may need to email him if you are interested.

I believe the store will ship the diamond but not charge your card for 5 days in case you want to send it back.

Some other options. I think there is a promo going on right now for wildfish, you can get 25% off these prices:

http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/11533
http://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/10806 (burma sapphire with the silk that makes the gem "glow")

 

[ma re]

In terms of overall appearance, and that's what I look in a gemstone, I'd go with #4. Nice, evenly distributed color, pleasing tone, probably a very scintillating and brilliant stone, also the choice of settings is probably the largest for rounds. While color is the most important aspect of a gemstone, when I say "overall appearance" I mean just that - how color, clarity, size, shape, brilliance, cut etc. work as a whole, and that's why #4 is my favorite. But of course, what she likes is most important, so if you feel she'd be happier with something else, that's what you should get her.

When it comes to settings (for that round), the first "alternative" is a good idea, while I think the second alternative isn't such a good idea for something that would be worn daily. It's on the ornated side, and seems to have some granulated work on the shank, which is quite fragile (you can damage it easily) so not something I'd suggest for 24/7 wear. Of the three BGD settings, I wouldn't recommend the last one, cause diamonds go almost completely around the finger, which is not only (possibly) uncomfortable, but is risky for daily wear cause it makes it easier to damage the prongs holding the little diamonds i.e. easier for them to fall out. The other two are OK for that matter, but it's a question of would she like them.

If you'd like to know more about gems and feel more comfortable browsing and choosing, I'd suggest you go to palagems.com and read an article in their "Judging quality" section. Very useful.

 

[lavatea]

Here''s my personal opinion - in terms of color, I like the 2nd stone (the first round posted). I had never heard of banding before, and apparently it isn''t an ideal characteristic, but personally I think it looks neat and makes the stone unique. Maybe it wouldn''t in person, though? To me the color on that stone is just gorgeous.

The runner-up in my opinion would be the first stone listed. The color on it is a nice color and I like cushions. Again, they are a little more unique than a round.

As for settings, I think this is probably even more personal to the wearer than maybe the stone choice. I love the second BGD setting you linked, but I don''t like a lot of engraving and stuff. But you said your GF did.

Good luck. This ring is going to be beautiful!

 

[Largosmom]

Personally, I''m very picky about a sapphire...you really really need to look at some in person. Educate your eyes even a little bit by going to a couple of local jewelers and looking at their good sapphires. When I saw color zoning under the loupe, I was quite turned off by it and rejected some otherwise pretty stones even though it didn''t show face up...I knew it was there. Several of those linked show blackish areas when viewed, which to me means the cut is not as good as it should be and I don''t like that. Number 4 is quite nice...the round with a bit of a lighter color. I think this would be a bit darker in person. If your intended likes the deep blue, she may not like this one.

I eventually went to a custom cutter (Jeff White) and got a price for exactly the stone I wanted that was in the middle of the price range of the stones I rejected. Those at my local shop ranged from 1500 to 3500...the later took my breath away, but I eventually rejected the higher priced stone for the very visible zoning when it was tilted at an angle.

One thing...get the stone first, then the setting. I did not realize that and found a setting I really liked...Jeff was able to cut the stone perfectly to fit, but I did it wrong way round.

Laura

 

[Stone Hunter]

It sounds like you've talked with your GF and know what she really likes in settings. That's very good. Personally I would put most of my money in the stone, just personal preference. So I'd focus on settings with the engraving she likes, maybe that 1st BGD setting you posted rather than settings with alot of diamonds in them.

I really do think you and your GF need to spend some time looking at Sapphires and deciding what colors you like. If you end up liking a color that's not the most sought after you'll find that it is cheaper per ct. and that there isn't anything wrong with it. But be sure to get the color that you both like even if it is the most sought after color.

Oh and relax and enjoy the hunt!

HTH

ETA: I like stone #1 because I like cushions and I like the color. I also really like the size (in mm) and color of stone #4. But you may prefer darker stones than I do.

If you are seriously considering a stone you may want to reserve it to keep others from buying it while you think abou it!

 

[miclane05]

I really appreciate everyone''s comments and help. So far I''ve eliminated the second and third Brian Gavin settings, along with the second of my "alternatives" from TNSC. The first Brian Gavin setting is probably the front-runner, but, heading everyone''s advice, I''ll shift my focus back to finding the stone first and then consider the remaining candidates for a setting.

As for the stones, I read all of the comments and linked articles from you guys about judging quality. I''m not sure if I''ll actually be able to accurately judge quality myself, but at least now I know what I''m supposed to see. I guess there is only so much you can do online without seeing the stones in person, so I''ll probably call TNSC and see if they can send me stones 1 and 4 for a sneak peek. I also might check this one out (http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3445) unless anyone sees a major flaw in it, and I can always drive to western mass on a Saturday to check out this stone recommended by centRC (http://rwwise.com/products/id|1650) so long as I can come up with a good excuse to get me out of the house for 4-5 hours. That gives me 2 rounds and 2 cushions to check out and compare. Hopefully one of them will immediately speak to me as the perfect choice. A few months ago my girlfriend commented that she used to prefer round stones but, having seen some of the cushion cuts, thinks that she likes those too. So I''m trying to stick to those two cuts but I''m not sure how I''ll decide between the two. Hopefully these final choices will become easier as I see the stones in person.

 

[Arcadian]

Date: 2/3/2010 10:55:34 AM
Author: miclane05
I really appreciate everyone''s comments and help. So far I''ve eliminated the second and third Brian Gavin settings, along with the second of my ''alternatives'' from TNSC. The first Brian Gavin setting is probably the front-runner, but, heading everyone''s advice, I''ll shift my focus back to finding the stone first and then consider the remaining candidates for a setting.

As for the stones, I read all of the comments and linked articles from you guys about judging quality. I''m not sure if I''ll actually be able to accurately judge quality myself, but at least now I know what I''m supposed to see. I guess there is only so much you can do online without seeing the stones in person, so I''ll probably call TNSC and see if they can send me stones 1 and 4 for a sneak peek. I also might check this one out (http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/nscnet/expandedstones.aspx?stoneid=B3445) unless anyone sees a major flaw in it, and I can always drive to western mass on a Saturday to check out this stone recommended by centRC (http://rwwise.com/products/id|1650) so long as I can come up with a good excuse to get me out of the house for 4-5 hours. That gives me 2 rounds and 2 cushions to check out and compare. Hopefully one of them will immediately speak to me as the perfect choice. A few months ago my girlfriend commented that she used to prefer round stones but, having seen some of the cushion cuts, thinks that she likes those too. So I''m trying to stick to those two cuts but I''m not sure how I''ll decide between the two. Hopefully these final choices will become easier as I see the stones in person.

I think you''re off to a really good start.

On the last one from NSC, its good for color, the cut looks wonky. Look at the right bottom corner, it looks more rounded than the rest. Symmetry of the cut also seems to be off. But again, you have to see it in person to see if you''re really going to like it.

Stones are just as unique as the person that buys them, so above all else, as long as you''re making an informed decision, buy what you fall in love with and find pleasing to your eyes. I''ve got some stones were a few people here were like "you bought that thing?" lol

Richards stone is very nice for color and could be that color you both will like. Its also visually symmetrical. There''s a lot of ladies that would call that "a blueberry!" Its worth looking at if you can get a chance to.

Also too, once you get the stone(s), check them in every light you possibly can. If she works in an office, you''re for sure going to want to check it in that type of environment. What looks good in a jewelery store may not look good once its out in your environment.


Good luck and I can''t wait to see your choices (you do plan on keeping us in the loop right??)


-A

 

[chrono]

Banding, as Arcadian calls it, is also called colour zoning which is quite common in sapphires. However, it is definitely possible to find nice ones without zoning. I agree with the idea of concentrating on the mm measurement and not carat weight because this will vary depending on the cut. I also second the suggestion to wait on the setting until you have selected the right stone. It is far easier to find the setting than the stone. By choosing the setting first, you are adding another level of complexity by setting another limit on your selection of sapphires which is isn’t easy to find in the first place.

NSC B3345: Looks to have a hint of violet but that’s the hue I prefer. Symmetry is a little off but might not be too noticeable if prong set.
RW 1650: Wish I can see a better picture. The lighting is so poor that the stone looks very dark and dull.

It is great though that you are going to be able to see them in person as that’s the best way. And blue sapphires do that little shift under different lighting, so check them out under as many different light sources as possible.

 

[miclane05]

Yes Arcadian, of course I will keep you all updated.

I called today to ask about the stones and have them sent out for viewing. Didn''t find the phone call very helpful, but hopefully my own viewing will do the trick. I asked if stone #4 was a bit lighter than the others since it appeared that way on the computer, I was told "no, it is perfect cornflower blue". Then I tried inverting the question and asking if Stone #1, the cushion cut, appeared any darker. Was told "no, it is also perfect blue, but not as perfect as the round stone". Realizing that further questions would not lead to more productive answers, and not wanting to waste more billable hours, I just gave them my card number and told them to send the stones. Hope to drive out to Lenox to see Richard Wise''s stones this weekend, and hopefully be able to declare a winner by next week. My girlfriend and I both work in similar offices, so I''ll be able to fully inspect how each stone looks under the yellowish fluorescent hue of a windowless office

might try to take and post some pictures for further advice this weekend.

 

[centrc]

Awesome mic, let us know how it turns out

 

[vinkalmann]

Definitely check the stones out under different lights. I was very underwhelmed when I first got my fiance''s sapphire. I was looking at under office lights and it didn''t do much of anything. Outside in the natural sunlight was a very different story.

One thing to note, the stones you''re looking at are what NSC considers "cornflower blue" (you already know this), but if it turns out that you prefer something darker, you can save a lot on the per carat price since there''s a premium placed on what they consider to be the ideal color.

Good luck with the stones, you''re going to love the end result with whatever you choose .

 

[miclane05]

If "cornflower blue" turns out to be lighter in color that I/ we''d prefer, is there a name for the next shade darker, or would I just have to ask for something "darker" and use more of a trial and error approach?

 

[Novel]

This is the Cross Jewelers chart that a lot of PS-ers use. It seems to come in handy, as titles aren''t always descriptive...