Heard that PS''s love to help couples find their perfect stone...

[ideawizard]

I have read at least 3 online guides but they seem to apply mostly to rounds.

My fiancee and I went to look at local jewlery store in the burbs (jareds) and the manager showed us an oval diamond with the following stats that were on the card...

1.75 caret
oval brilliant cut
9.63
6.44
4.23
H
Si2
polish/symetry good/good
treatment none
had laser number and GIA cert.

The price was $6600 + 9% tax + the band Which we still havent picked. This seemed high and much more than we have budgeted. they also called today and said that they have a 1.5 with the same stats for 6K on their Virtual diamond shop. whatever that means.

1) Is this a good deal? What exactly do I look for in an oval or pear shaped diamond? What is most important?
What can we do to get the most value for the money and not get taken ? Her ideal range is 1.5 to 1.8 carats. What should we do next to find the best stone for our situation ?

Help us find the perfect oval stone for her vision:


The vision-once we find the right oval
she wants an elegant contemporary conversations starting setting with the oval set East West- not solitaire not antique, that she can include a few of her late parents smaller diamonds randomly in the band like stars to always have them with her.

Thanks for your valuable time and advice, places info to find better ovals are welcome

iZ

 

[coda72]

First of all, $6600 seems very cheap for a 1.75 carat oval. On a pricescope search here, the prices for 1.5 carat ovals were over $7000 for AGA 1A ones. So, it seems to me there must be something wrong with this stone for it to be so cheap. I know you think that''s expensive, but it''s really not.

Check out this link to see what to look for in an oval.

http://www.gemappraisers.com/oldcutgraderules.asp

1A cut grades don''t guarantee the most beautiful diamonds, but an AGA 1A has a better chance of being a beautiful diamond.

Here''s a few I found using a pricescope search just to compare to what you''ve seen.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=18098899&flag=ps

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=28790398&flag=ps

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/search.php?src=3785849

As you can see, these are all higher priced than the ones you''ve been offered. Since the internet vendors seem to always have the lowest prices, I''m not sure how Jared''s can do better than them, unless the stones they''re offering you are very poorly cut.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome

I agree with Coda, that is very cheap for such a large diamond, read up the info she has provided and check the links too. It can take a little time to find the right one, if you have seen this one and love it, then fine, but if you decide to get it, see if the jeweller will allow you to get an independant appraisal and that you can return it if the diamond doesn''t check out. Good luck!

 

[Shay37]

I don''t know about ovals, but they are a diamond right? Look at them in different lighting environments (not just jewelers lights) to see how it sparkles. Make sure that there is minimal bowtie. That''s the dark parts that go side to side that look just like a man''s bowtie. That should not be prominent at all. I actually had a guy at a jeweler tell me that a prominent bowtie in a marquise and an oval meant they were well cut.

Sorry I can''t be more help, but that''s about all I know.

shay

 

[firebirdgold]

It''s a smaller than the one you were looking at but better quality and quite pretty, and under the budget. I don''t know how firm you are on size.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/oval_1_13ct_f_vs2.htm

 

[Rod]

I echo Coda''s comments. Something''s wrong with a stone that size for so little money.

I was at a Starbucks a couple of months ago and there was a Jared''s next door. I had never been in a Jareds, so I was curious and went in. I saw some the worst cut, most lifeless diamonds I have seen. I would liken what I saw in Jareds to any lower quality "maul" jeweler. Most stones were IGI at best (i.e., not well graded at all).

Rule of thumb. In life you get what you pay for. Be cautious about those stones and learn learn learn from the tutorials on PS and by asking questions before you plunk down your hard earned dollars for something you may truly regret.

Good luck.........

 

[valeria101]

One thing about the AGA tables... since they were mentioned.

You might want to read the story under knowledge / Fancy shapes here. The authors of the system recommend the first three grades as a good slot to start looking. I brought that up because ... without seeing the stones, I have some doubt that every 1A will outshine every 2B or what not. I wouldn''t second guess the user guide on that bit.

And even then, the system makes use of some stats that are not present on GIA lab reports: crown height... and pavilion depth.

Anyway,


From a GIA report, I''d look at spread (size for weight), roughly whatever fits the first few AGA grades (i.e. no extremes on the numbers that are given on the lab report). There is more important stuff,, IMO, but that can''t be read on the lab report. For example... the ''eye clean'' quality of SI diamonds - it sure is nice to find a clean one at the price associated with the lower clarity grades, but the clarity plot on lab reports doesn''t go all the way telling if the inclusions show badly or not at all.

And brilliance, of course. Looking at diamonds in person is a good thing, but then.. what to look for? If you didn''t have a chance to see a really well cut example, the best shown by the seller would win, even if it is not a great picking (well, disaster scenario here). or the dilemma, cut grading helps - but there are few and far between fancies that come with sort of guarantee. You may shop around a bit hoping that at least the diamonds in a fine shop (dunno, some high ticket brand - whatever keeps shop nearby) would make a decent example of a good cut. Or hail a seller that does cut grading to locate something fitting budget and cut quality - hopefully, this is not direct advertising for the sellers posting here that do such stuff, there should be others, the matter of cut quality is not unique to Pricescope.

See, perhaps the diamond the jeweler has shown you is a beauty, there''s no way I can tell that from the numbers you gave (having all the details on that GIA report would probably help a bit, but only little compared to actually seeing the goods)

It takes some slightly

different presentation to describe the quality of a diamond online beyond the lab grades: think... pictures showing the shape and facet pattern, Ideal Scope or ASET or some other way to describe cut quality and what not. IMO, the same would come handy in a shop too, since those guys can''t show you all diamonds in the world to allow you to learn on the spot hat constitutes a great looking oval - so whatever way to compare the stone in cause with some standard is handy. However, on the ''ground'' you can handle the goods and get charmed. Online, it is a more ''cold'' geeky process.

My 2c

 

[stermag]

You also posted this question yesterday, no? I was getting ready to comment that 6600 USD for a 1.75ct stone seems really low to me. Before submitting my comment, however, I did a pricescope search and did see some ovals priced similarly, but they were all virtual stones and I could not discern the quality of the cut. I was quite surprised, however, to see just how much cheaper ovals seem to be when compared to rounds. Again, I always knew fancies were a bit less but I don''t think I realized just how much. Or was I simply looking at the bottom of the barrel ovals?

I was recently helping my boyfriend''s brother find a diamond for his girlfriend - he''s hoping for something close to 1ct (give or take 10pts) in a RB - and I couldn''t find much under $5500 that I felt comfortable recommending, and that''s only a grand or so less than the price you posted for a 1.75ct!

I agree with everyone else - there must be a reason for this.

 

[valeria101]

Considering those said in the above post...

and the very few stats give, here's what they tell me:

Date: 3/15/2006 2:11:46 AM
Author:ideawizard

1.75 carat , oval brilliant cut

size: 9.63 x 6.44 x 4.23

GIA grades: H / Si2

polish/symmetry good/good

The price was $6600 + 9% tax

Run a search for:

"Oval shape, 1.7–1.9 cts, H–I color, SI1–SI2 clarity, 56–68.5% depth, 51–67% table, $100–8000, GIA certified"

Found a couple, priced around 6k. Leaving tax aside...since these would not be local shops.

The stats you quote give me size (surface), and roughly shape (length / width - indicating a longer or shorter oval; for this one 1.5/1 is a reasonably long shape, which is considered desirable ). And depth (depth / short diameter, about 65% - which isn't too bad for an oval).

What is the table size and girdle width? They must be on the lab report. I'd wish the table came around 60%, and the girdle would not be either 'extremely thin' or 'thick' but something in between. Nothing stricter than that. (IMO).


What else.. well, the other ovals I found were shorter (neither good nor bad, but I prefer the longer ones like the one you found, because they look larger, IMO), and the one you cite is larger than those in the database. In fact, it is larger than heavier diamonds with and smaller total depth (61% versus 65% in yours). More depth usually means smaller size, but... there are other details of the cut that play out too.

I wish this doesn't mean you've got a flat looking stone with a HUGE table (say, well over 65%) and no crown at all (say, less than 10%). Those have larger diameter, but more often tan not end up quite lifeless looking.

This is quite a nasty thing to say about a diamond I have not even seen

I know... it is not even a remark about your diamond, but about oval diamonds in general

Can't do any better without knowing more about the stone. And in fact, I don't need to - you have the lab report and the stone to look at and decide whether this looks bad in some way. from behind a computer screen, I don't quite know what else to do than give an example of something I would consider BAD and something I would definitely like. Hoping your stone looks like the happy example

[see next post, picture refuseld to attach...]

 

[firebirdgold]

It''d help to know what your budget range is and what carat size you won''t go below. What about color? G-H is colorless to most people, but some people are sensitive to color and some aren''t. For instance I''d be perfectly happy with a J even though a number of people would really notice the ''warmth'' of the stone.
Also are you happy going for an Si1-Si2? It''s a lot easier to go up in size if you stick to Si''s, but it''s very personal. In the recent color/clarity tradeoff thread most people chose color over clarity.

 

[valeria101]

So, here''s the example. It is a model of what two diamonds with the dimensions you gave and different proportions should look under strong light placed against a dark background (crown height, table, girdle - those stats that are not available for your stone but need to be known to recompose the looks of a diamond).

What the dark backgound does is show what diamonds look like without lightfrom below - how much light they reflect from above = or how good their brilliance is. Ideally, they shouldn''t look dark at all (like the picture on the left) but bright white (like the one to the right).

Honestly, this is a bit of a hunch. Open for dissaprovement. I am not an expert and this is as much as I''d know to do for myself, so please take anything in these long posts - sorry for the ramble - with a large grain of salt).

 

[Small]

If Jareds was who you were talking about yesterday telling you they charge for cleaning and such I''d run away! I bought a few items from Jareds (my husbands wedding band for one) and they NEVER told me I''d pay for them to clean his ring or any of my other jewelry. Matter of fact while I was waiting for his ring they offered to polish my platinum e-ring for no charge, and I sat at the window and watched them at their request. They were extremely helpful and such. Also, they have the AGS ideal cut diamonds. Knowing that and wanting to see them in person I went in to have a look. They were very, very helpful. I saw the certificate and the associate was probably one of the most knowledgeable for a retail associate. I really have a hard time thinking that because Jareds has loose diamonds with different certificates that they would tell you its G-H or SI1-SI2 because if you did infact look at one with the certificate it would say right on there. And in my couple of experiences there they aren''t afraid to take the certificates out and show them to you. IF they were offering to charge 127 for just the setting then that deal seems wrong as well. I looked at their settings to find out what one I wanted with my ideal RB and their setting were pretty expensive. More expensive than what I was paying from Wink. I really think this whole deal sounds fishy!
If you know your specs you can find a decent diamond at Jareds. However you must know what it is that you are looking for and know that you will definitely pay a higher price. Their ideals were AT LEAST 1k more than the RBs some of the internet vendors are offering here.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/15/2006 11:49:39 AM
Author: stermag

I was quite surprised, however, to see just how much cheaper ovals seem to be when compared to rounds. Again, I always knew fancies were a bit less but I don''t think I realized just how much. Or was I simply looking at the bottom of the barrel ovals?

No... rounds are that much more expensive. H&A super duper... even more.

 

[ideawizard]

First of all Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. This is the most useful information out of any forum I have tried.

this forum rocks! pun intended lol

I really appreciate helping shorten the learning curve... I had a feeling we needed better info before leaping.

Here is what I hear you say I still have to find out and get crytal clear on.

The table:
The Girdle
Confirm the cut
The bowtie effect.
double check stats.
will they let us appraise it independently
do they have a 30 day return


Here is what I am going to ask... let me know if I need to ask anything else.

Certified: Yes GIA
Cut: Oval brilliant cut
Carat: 1.75
Clarity: Si2
Price: 6600
Measurments:
Depth percentage:
Table Percentage:
Crown angle
Pavilion percentage
Pavilion angle
Girdle
Cutlet
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Floresence
Certificate notes:
Clarity enhanced: No treatment
Make:
Bowtie effect

Anything else?


The people were very nice but they did not have access to email or subscribe to rappaport. The kept mentioning a virtual vault? And later called back and said they had found a 1.5 for 6k with the same proportions. We have not seen that stone.

When they showed me the oval on white paper there was a black shape in it that dissapeared when we put it
on the mounting. They let me look at it with a stereo microscope but I didnt know what to look for but even my untrained eye could see an inclusion or two and a feather. We really have no diamond in the hand experience mostly what I have gleaned on the web and what my GF knows which is consideralble but at times mixed with
just a touch of i read once or someone told me. I am the sort that triple checks everything. She is the sort that gets it if it feels right and she likes the people. She loved the oval sideways but not the settings. as mentioned before she wants to design her own or find her perfect setting...as a matter of fact I think the band/setting is at least as important to her as the stone. I want to please her but we have a budget and want the best value and really dont want to get fooled.

All contructive comments, links, prices, examples are most welcome...

Respectfully,

iZ

 

[ideawizard]

ok I called the jewelry store: to try to get the rest of the info: here is the latest:

1) they only have a short cert not a long one. and the long one must be orderd only by the manager...at first they said i had to buy the diamond before i get the cert. and i said I will not buy it without the info on the cert so I can do my research.

2) she said the assistant manager will call me tomorrow and I could try and request a long cert from her.

3) the cert is not GIA but IGI

4) I gave them my fax number and asked to have faxed a long cert ....we will see.

here is the info I was able to double check.

Color is H
Certified: Yes IGI certified ...
Cut: Oval brilliant cut/
Carat: 1.75
Clarity: Si2/
Price: 6600
Measurments: 9.63X6.44.4.23
Depth percentage: unknown
Table Percentage:
Crown angle
Pavilion percentage
Pavilion angle
Girdle
Cutlet
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Floresence
Certificate notes:
Clarity enhanced: No treatment
Make:
Bowtie effect she didnt know. manager might.


How hard is it to get a copy of the long cert? Is it available on the internet? She said they had to order it special and managment doesn''t allow internet in the stores.

What is the most important pieces of info I have to get if they wont give me a copy of the long cert?

Anything else I can do to do this right?

Thanks!

iZ

 

[Rod]

And now you know why the stone is so "attractively" priced. IGI is not as highly regarded as AGS or GIA. It''s the grading lab most "maul" stores, like Lundstron, Zales, Kay, etc., use. It''s where so-so stones go to be graded because they likely would not fare as well by AGS or GIA.

Buyer beware and remember what I said earlier. You get what you pay for...........

 

[klavigne]

A virtual stone or virtual vault is just that, virtual. They are stones that most jewelers have access to but don''t have in-house. They have to call them in and you end up paying for shipping to bring them in to look at. So befoer calling in any virtual stones make sure the numbers look good, almost anyone here can help you wiht that as long as you have all the important numbers and angles.