Handling an indecisive boss

[lumpkin]

My husband''s boss is a bit of a micro-manager, but she changes her mind about what she wants and how she wants it accomplished. The group has meetings at least once a week, and it''s very common for her to tell her staff that what she told them before was not what she wanted at all, and that it''s their fault they didn''t get it right. She''s very abrupt and at times quite rude to her staff. Now, this is a fairly new job for my husband and he wants to stay on the boss''s good side, but she is not giving him solid direction, and not having been there for very long, he''s in unfamiliar territory and he''s trying to navigate the situation. On the QT he has been told by coworkers that people more or less do things the way they know will work regardless of what she says, because she is so indecisive. He can''t really do that because for 3 years he''s on "probation" more or less. I told him to do it the way she tells him and ALSO do it the way his coworkers direct him (they work on projects together and everyone has their own piece of the pie to accomplish, so his coworkers depend on him to provide them with information they can readily use). So really, he can''t get on ANYone''s bad side because if he upsets his coworkers they will definitely not share the blame. It''s a bit touchy. He seems to be well liked, but he''s new, so office politics is very unpredictable at this point, and there''s a lot of it.

I wonder if you might share some advice.

 

[simplysplendid]

Hi Lumpkin, has your hubby tried sitting her down to walk through with her the approach that he will take for the tasks that she has assigned? That way, both your hubby and her would have agreed on the game plan to take and there shouldn''t be any excuse for her to say it is his fault if the result is not what she wants.

 

[lumpkin]

I wish it were that simple.

ETA: It has been tried. Long story, can't go into too much detail on a public forum. Apparently this is her modus apparondi (gee, I hope I spelled that correctly).

 

[zoebartlett]

I was going to suggest the same thing as simplysplendid. If your husband asks her specifically what the game plan should be (or they work together to decide on that), why won't this work? He could take notes and then if she changes her mind, he can refresh her memory about how the conversation went and what the tasks were. No?

By the way, he's on three year's probation, not three months? Three years seems like an awfully long time!


ETA: We were posting at the same time, so I didn't realize that it has been tried in the past.

 

[FireGoddess]

Perhaps your DH could ask his boss to document assignments in writing, in particular if he wants it done a certain way.
'I want to be crystal clear on exactly how you want me to proceed so that I accomplish what needs to be done exactly how you want it done.' That way, there's a paper trail and the 'I didn't tell you to do that' point becomes moot. At least, there's documentation she DID tell him to do it that way...

 

[lumpkin]

Thank you. I will share your advice to document everything. Hopefully that will take care of it.

Zoe, he is in a program where every quarter for 3 years, for a total of 12 pannels, he gets evaluated in his progress in learning and coming up to speed in his group. If he achieves the goals in his program after three years he's permanent. Until then he has to prove himself.

 

[lumpkin]

FG, his boss is a woman in her 50's. I think when she started working there was a very low glass ceiling as far as where women could go. Now, of course, it's a much higher ceiling. There is an element here of someone who does not ever want to appear "wrong" or appear as if she doesn't have all the answers and information, which of course, no one has all the information and all the answers all the time.

I'm not sure she's secure in her authority so I think it's easy to make her defensive. She's not someone you can be direct with even though she's pretty direct herself. My husband has never worked for a woman. Most of the people where he works are in their mid to late 40's and 50's, so they did not grow up with the same male/female work roles that are prevalant today. Things have changed a lot since we started working 25+ years ago. I think some of the issues are hers, and some are his, but mostly he feels like he's walking through a mine field -- she's unpredictable. ETA: At least he feels she's unpredictable.

 

[gailrmv]

I had a boss EXACTLY like that for several years. It was frustrating at first, but eventually we had a great working relationship. I second the idea to get things in writing. For example, after a meeting, I would write my boss an email and say, "I just want to make sure I am clear, you want me to do X, Y and Z." Sometimes she would write back "yes" and sometimes she would come by my office to revise her instructions. It was better to get it taken care of before I spent a whole week on a project and then had it revised.
By any chance does he work in a scientific or academic environment?

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/11/2007 12:17:42 AM
Author: gailrmv
I had a boss EXACTLY like that for several years. It was frustrating at first, but eventually we had a great working relationship. I second the idea to get things in writing. For example, after a meeting, I would write my boss an email and say, 'I just want to make sure I am clear, you want me to do X, Y and Z.' Sometimes she would write back 'yes' and sometimes she would come by my office to revise her instructions. It was better to get it taken care of before I spent a whole week on a project and then had it revised.
By any chance does he work in a scientific or academic environment?

He works in a technical environment, but I worked at a local college while I was in school there. It's very much the same type of office politics. There are some big egos (ETA: Not HUGE egos, just the usual big egos, LOL) and he has to jump through some hoops (which he hates, but he's just going to have to do that). I think he's just worried that she's going to keep directing him and redirecting him and he's not going to meet his goals for his pannels. The last man who had his position was let go after about a year, I think. My husband is beginning to fear that his boss is just kind of clueless? and doesn't think things out well, so it could ultimately affect his performance pannels. He hasn't been there long enough to really get a feel for what happened to the last guy. His boss did say in a meeting that she wasn't about to lose her job "because of you guys" (not directed at my husband but other staff). So if she misdirects him she's definitely not going to say, "Oops, my bad!"

Anyway, now I'm beginning to feel ooogy about putting this on a public forum, but honestly, I don't know who IRL I can talk to. I don't want to send out distress signals before he really gets a handle on whether he SHOULD be distressed. He could be totally overreacting. I don't know because I'm not there....but I don't want to go through another bout of unemployment so I'm stressed, too. Plus I don't want him to be miserable. And if I tell anyone IRL, it almost makes it more of a reality. I don't know.

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/11/2007 12:29:53 AM
Author: lumpkin

Date: 8/11/2007 12:17:42 AM
Author: gailrmv
I had a boss EXACTLY like that for several years. It was frustrating at first, but eventually we had a great working relationship. I second the idea to get things in writing. For example, after a meeting, I would write my boss an email and say, ''I just want to make sure I am clear, you want me to do X, Y and Z.'' Sometimes she would write back ''yes'' and sometimes she would come by my office to revise her instructions. It was better to get it taken care of before I spent a whole week on a project and then had it revised.
By any chance does he work in a scientific or academic environment?

Gail, I meant to also say that I like this advice. I think it would be less threatening to her this way rather than returning to her office or asking in person.

 

[lumpkin]

BTW, I am going to be away from my computer most of the weekend, so if you respond and I don''t, that''s why!

Thanks everyone for your advice.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 8/11/2007 12:29:53 AM
Author: lumpkin

Date: 8/11/2007 12:17:42 AM
Author: gailrmv
I had a boss EXACTLY like that for several years. It was frustrating at first, but eventually we had a great working relationship. I second the idea to get things in writing. For example, after a meeting, I would write my boss an email and say, 'I just want to make sure I am clear, you want me to do X, Y and Z.' Sometimes she would write back 'yes' and sometimes she would come by my office to revise her instructions. It was better to get it taken care of before I spent a whole week on a project and then had it revised.
By any chance does he work in a scientific or academic environment?

He works in a technical environment, but I worked at a local college while I was in school there. It's very much the same type of office politics. There are some big egos (ETA: Not HUGE egos, just the usual big egos, LOL) and he has to jump through some hoops (which he hates, but he's just going to have to do that). I think he's just worried that she's going to keep directing him and redirecting him and he's not going to meet his goals for his pannels. The last man who had his position was let go after about a year, I think. My husband is beginning to fear that his boss is just kind of clueless? and doesn't think things out well, so it could ultimately affect his performance pannels. He hasn't been there long enough to really get a feel for what happened to the last guy. His boss did say in a meeting that she wasn't about to lose her job 'because of you guys' (not directed at my husband but other staff). So if she misdirects him she's definitely not going to say, 'Oops, my bad!'

Anyway, now I'm beginning to feel ooogy about putting this on a public forum, but honestly, I don't know who IRL I can talk to. I don't want to send out distress signals before he really gets a handle on whether he SHOULD be distressed. He could be totally overreacting. I don't know because I'm not there....but I don't want to go through another bout of unemployment so I'm stressed, too. Plus I don't want him to be miserable. And if I tell anyone IRL, it almost makes it more of a reality. I don't know.

OK, I can't highlight for some reason, but when you say, "I am beginning to feel ooogy about putting this on a public forum" I hope that wasn't due to anything I said. I am definitely not trying to figure out exactly where your husband works. I mean, it's so extremely unlikely he works where I used to. That wasn't what I was saying at all. I have just found that sometimes work situations like this arise when someone very smart/educated in their own field suddenly becomes a supervisor, but has no supervisory experience or management training. (i.e. this could happen with professor types in science/academia.) So don't worry, I'm not trying to stalk you or your DH!

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/11/2007 7:42:37 PM
Author: gailrmv
OK, I can''t highlight for some reason, but when you say, ''I am beginning to feel ooogy about putting this on a public forum'' I hope that wasn''t due to anything I said. I am definitely not trying to figure out exactly where your husband works. I mean, it''s so extremely unlikely he works where I used to. That wasn''t what I was saying at all. I have just found that sometimes work situations like this arise when someone very smart/educated in their own field suddenly becomes a supervisor, but has no supervisory experience or management training. (i.e. this could happen with professor types in science/academia.) So don''t worry, I''m not trying to stalk you or your DH!

Oh, Gail, no! It wasn''t anything you said, or anything anyone else said, either. It''s that once you put a fear or concern out there, so to speak, it becomes more real somehow.

 

[eks6426]

I deal with this sort of situation every day. One thing I have found really helps cut down on getting slammed for doing something the way I was originally told is to get it in writing. Ideally getting what the boss wants in an email would be great. That way is she changes her mind, fine, your hubby has to redo but he shouldn''t be punished for doing what he was told first. If she won''t put it in writing to start out with...perhaps gives assignements in a meeting... he can send a summary sort of email....something along the lines of "Just so we''re all on the same page...I noted that I should be doing XYZ tasks. If you''d like me to do something different please let me know." Then save the emails for future use. That being said, I feel sorry for your husband. This sort of working environment is a real pain and there are people like your husband''s boss at all levels in organizations....both male and female.

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/13/2007 9:18:32 AM
Author: IslandDreams
I deal with this sort of situation every day. One thing I have found really helps cut down on getting slammed for doing something the way I was originally told is to get it in writing. Ideally getting what the boss wants in an email would be great. That way is she changes her mind, fine, your hubby has to redo but he shouldn''t be punished for doing what he was told first. If she won''t put it in writing to start out with...perhaps gives assignements in a meeting... he can send a summary sort of email....something along the lines of ''Just so we''re all on the same page...I noted that I should be doing XYZ tasks. If you''d like me to do something different please let me know.'' Then save the emails for future use. That being said, I feel sorry for your husband. This sort of working environment is a real pain and there are people like your husband''s boss at all levels in organizations....both male and female.

We talked about it this weekend, and he does think that sending her an email after each meeting with all the points highlighted to make sure HE understands what he needs to do is the way to go. The problem as I see it is that this boss wants everyone to know she''s the BOSS and they are under her. She does not like any type of comment or action that makes her feel her staff does not know their "place." And of course my husband hates that kind of thing. He''s not a kid and he is very knowlegeable, so he feels a mixture of unpleasantness with this.

I think he just needs to look at it as "here''s my role in this organization and I have to find the best way to fill it" and allow himself to submit. He does not like to be submissive so this is hard for him. I don''t know if he has more trouble with his boss being a woman (which is entirely possible) or if she has more trouble being a boss because of her gender and age group and being confident in her own authority (also very possible). It could be a combination of both. I actually don''t think it would matter much to him whether his boss was male or female because it''s really the management style he finds difficult, and *I* may actually be the one, ironically, who is more sensitive to gender. It could also be because my husband lost a job where he was for 27 years (outsourced his whole department) and he feels his livelihood threatened (as I do). She is a somewhat difficult boss and that''s just the way it is. Ultimately it''s up to HIM to get along with her, because she IS the boss.

At any rate, he and I both need to take our little "fee fees" out of it and break it down into logical terms. We''re both nervous about things working out well.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Tell him to have his boss quietly whacked and disposed of in the Jimmy Hoffa manner.

Either that or become self employed, where you don't have to put up with that nonsense.


Rich, hopelessly self employed...

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/13/2007 8:12:35 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Tell him to have his boss quietly whacked and disposed of in the Jimmy Hoffa manner.

Either that or become self employed, where you don''t have to put up with that nonsense.


Rich, hopelessly self employed...

Heehee! Aren''t office politics fun??? I did joke that maybe she might meet with a tragic accident, LOL!

Oh, Richard, we''re bad, really really bad!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/10/2007 11:30:51 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Perhaps your DH could ask his boss to document assignments in writing, in particular if he wants it done a certain way.
''I want to be crystal clear on exactly how you want me to proceed so that I accomplish what needs to be done exactly how you want it done.'' That way, there''s a paper trail and the ''I didn''t tell you to do that'' point becomes moot. At least, there''s documentation she DID tell him to do it that way...

This is what I was going to suggest, after sitting her down and talking, which doesn''t seem to be an option.


Sorry he''s going through this lump, it''s hard enough being the new kid on the block when things are going well. Who needs this??

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/13/2007 8:12:35 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Tell him to have his boss quietly whacked and disposed of in the Jimmy Hoffa manner.

Either that or become self employed, where you don''t have to put up with that nonsense.


Rich, hopelessly self employed...

Or this.

 

[lumpkin]

Date: 8/14/2007 10:07:12 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/10/2007 11:30:51 PM
Author: FireGoddess
Perhaps your DH could ask his boss to document assignments in writing, in particular if he wants it done a certain way.
''I want to be crystal clear on exactly how you want me to proceed so that I accomplish what needs to be done exactly how you want it done.'' That way, there''s a paper trail and the ''I didn''t tell you to do that'' point becomes moot. At least, there''s documentation she DID tell him to do it that way...

This is what I was going to suggest, after sitting her down and talking, which doesn''t seem to be an option.


Sorry he''s going through this lump, it''s hard enough being the new kid on the block when things are going well. Who needs this??

Thanks, Ellen. He''s taking some proactive steps to make sure he covers his bases and is trying not to appear challenging. He has already sent one email to clarify everything they discussed and so far she has not replied. My concern is that she''s going to avoid being pinned down on her expectations because once they are defined it then puts the responsibility for the result back on her shoulders (where it really belongs). Her management style seems to be one of responsibility avoidance and finger pointing. I''ve only ever had one boss truly like that and in the end I found other employment. I''m really hoping she''s not that difficult and that he can find ways to work around the situation because the job itself is ideal for him and he gets along with his coworkers. He likes everything else about the job and there is real potential for advancement.

 

[FireGoddess]

Okay, with insecure types of bosses, and it sounds like your hubby''s boss is one of these ''types''...I have found in my experience that wording and mild deprecation go a long way.

For instance....he wants to know exactly how she wants him to do something so he doesn''t get chastised for doing it that way later...even though his boss told him to do it that way in the first place. With an insecure type of boss I would say, ''I want to make sure that I fulfill your expectations and hope to exceed them. For that reason I''d like you to send me an email with the direction you want me to go, if you have a strong opinion on how this should be done. I don''t want to spin my wheels in a direction you''re not on board with.''

When it comes to an insecure boss being told ''hey, you are the one who TOLD me to do it this way'', or basically being brought to task for screwing up when they''re trying to deflect blame onto someone else...I find a little deprecation goes a long way in not having that person become defensive or feel like they''re being attacked, but still get my point across. ''I''m sorry, I was under the impression that you wanted me to follow this route based on the email communication we exchanged. Did I interpret that incorrectly?'' (knowing damn well you didn''t interpret it incorrectly)

Is it sometimes a pain to jump through these hoops? Yes...but it makes dealing with these sorts of people a little easier. Otherwise...when they feel like they are being brought to task...they just tune you out anyway.

Ugh. Hope it gets better.