Grand Master Cutter! No seriously who are they?

[Justin_Cutter]

I am happy to post pictures of the sapphire rough. Everyone's input is appreciated!
133ct Rough Sapphire



~Justin

 

[Michael_E]

Nice pictures Justin, thanks for posting them! I have a feeling that this stone would bring more if cut into a matching suite of gems rather than one or two stones. The reason for this is that it is very deep and probably too dark to bring out anywhere near the color that could be had were it to be cut into smaller stones, (this is very hard to tell from the images and whoever is charged with cutting this would be able to tell you more once they have it in hand). Backlighting as was done for those pictures makes for great color, but really shows nothing as far as what the color would look like once cut and in normal lighting. I would think that this sort of stone should be measured for how much it attenuates light, and then the possible cuts from it modeled with the right sort of software that would allow the cutter to maximize both color and individual stone sizes. This is worth enough to avoid a "fly by the seat of your pants" approach to it's cutting and doing as much analytical and computer modeling work as is required to make sure that it produces the best, most valuable stones possible from it. Great stone, thanks again for posting these images!

 

[GemFever]

wooooooow

 

[minousbijoux]

I see what Michael means about light attenuation and wanting to make sure the cutting maximizes the color. Justin, I love the color of the first photo - it falls in the range of unadulterated pure blue to ever so slightly violetish blue. I am really excited to see how you and your friend have it cut. Perhaps based on what Michael E was saying you can do research to see if a suite of perfectly matching sapphires (say, for a necklace, or a pendant and earrings) would command a premium over one large stone, or whether a large stone would trump your other choices in value. To me, bigger (say 10+ carats) is not necessarily better, but I admit I'm not the typical fashion follower and don't wear big blingy jewelry, because in my circle everyone would just think it would be fake

 

[slg47]

disclaimer...I know nothing about sapphires. But that is one gorgeous rock!!! I hope you will be able to post pictures of it once cut, I would love to see the final product (or products)

 

[mastercutgems]

Nice to see the rough;


I know when Stephen along with others and myself got our Certified Supreme Master gem Cutter Status we had to cut natural material and also if possible had to hide flaws to where they would not show or would show minimally. It was not like some of the Australian and USA faceters guilds that allowed synthetic material like Gene had mentioned. ASG was totally different as it was the teaching of all minerals and lapidary skills, carving, faceting, cabochon, etc. plus you had to take a 300 question test; not fun at all. It took me over 3 years to get all that stuff. Kind of more than just hobby stuff; so I too like Stephen and others took it very serious . It was not an easy undertaking to earn that title; and hats off to all those that did earn any of those titles. I wish it were still around as I know many of the cutters here that do not have the title would have earned it in their own right.

I am also interested if any cutters would like to see that entity start back up again???


That being said; as I too have cut $20K tanzanites, and similar in Colombian emeralds, and sapphires;

NOTE ELLA..... Please do not take this as solicitation as it is NOT...
I do not cut for others any longer on their rough. Too much risk, insurance, and you never want the client to not understand you get a 40% loss or more.

In this case without using a fibre-optic light, microscope, etc. it is a gamble to say what can and will be the best cut for a gem like this. You have to measure light retention, internal flaws, healed fractures, zoning, the works... I will say anyone that cuts this behemoth will sure sweat for a few hours as many things can and usually go in a direction you will not want and you must be ready to change course in a moments notice to save weight and face...

I am definitely not promoting myself as I do not want to cut this rock as I have more now than I will ever cut in this lifetime. But I do know it is not for the faint of heart; as I finished a cuprian 48 carat finished weight gem 3 years ago and I lost about 2 nights sleep and was so thankful it was out of my hands in the hands of a private courier to go back home to its owner...

Too much stress for an ole guy like me...

But it is so nice for you to show us such a fine specimen of huge sapphire rough. reminds me of the ole days

Merry Christmas and once again I hope Ella does not think I am soliciting business as I am not...

Most respectfully;

Dana M. Reynolds, ASG, csmg #96CGE42

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Nice pictures Justin, thanks for posting them! I have a feeling that this stone would bring more if cut into a matching suite of gems rather than one or two stones. The reason for this is that it is very deep and probably too dark to bring out anywhere near the color that could be had were it to be cut into smaller stones, (this is very hard to tell from the images and whoever is charged with cutting this would be able to tell you more once they have it in hand). Backlighting as was done for those pictures makes for great color, but really shows nothing as far as what the color would look like once cut and in normal lighting. I would think that this sort of stone should be measured for how much it attenuates light, and then the possible cuts from it modeled with the right sort of software that would allow the cutter to maximize both color and individual stone sizes. This is worth enough to avoid a "fly by the seat of your pants" approach to it's cutting and doing as much analytical and computer modeling work as is required to make sure that it produces the best, most valuable stones possible from it. Great stone, thanks again for posting these images!

Michael
Thank you! I am very excited to have a cutter take a look at this to see what would be the best course of action. I agree that a set of stones may be the best option, but its hard to say until the rough has been evaluated. Thanks for the input!
~Justin

I see what Michael means about light attenuation and wanting to make sure the cutting maximizes the color. Justin, I love the color of the first photo - it falls in the range of unadulterated pure blue to ever so slightly violetish blue. I am really excited to see how you and your friend have it cut. Perhaps based on what Michael E was saying you can do research to see if a suite of perfectly matching sapphires (say, for a necklace, or a pendant and earrings) would command a premium over one large stone, or whether a large stone would trump your other choices in value. To me, bigger (say 10+ carats) is not necessarily better, but I admit I'm not the typical fashion follower and don't wear big blingy jewelry, because in my circle everyone would just think it would be fake

minousbijoux
Thank you I love the color too. I will do some research on the value of a matched set of stones. I understand what you are saying about the 10ct+ stones. For me If I had a stone that large the only way I personally would set it is to have a pendant made for my fiance. Other than that I would keep it loose to admire.
~Justin

disclaimer...I know nothing about sapphires. But that is one gorgeous rock!!! I hope you will be able to post pictures of it once cut, I would love to see the final product (or products)

slg47
Thank you! It is really neat to see such a large rock!
~Justin

 

[Barrett]

Dana, fantastic post! Thanks for explaining things and telling of some of the "big ones" you have cut!!

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Nice to see the rough;
I know when Stephen along with others and myself got our Certified Supreme Master gem Cutter Status we had to cut natural material and also if possible had to hide flaws to where they would not show or would show minimally. It was not like some of the Australian and USA faceters guilds that allowed synthetic material like Gene had mentioned. ASG was totally different as it was the teaching of all minerals and lapidary skills, carving, faceting, cabochon, etc. plus you had to take a 300 question test; not fun at all. It took me over 3 years to get all that stuff. Kind of more than just hobby stuff; so I too like Stephen and others took it very serious . It was not an easy undertaking to earn that title; and hats off to all those that did earn any of those titles. I wish it were still around as I know many of the cutters here that do not have the title would have earned it in their own right.

I am also interested if any cutters would like to see that entity start back up again???


That being said; as I too have cut $20K tanzanites, and similar in Colombian emeralds, and sapphires;

NOTE ELLA..... Please do not take this as solicitation as it is NOT...
I do not cut for others any longer on their rough. Too much risk, insurance, and you never want the client to not understand you get a 40% loss or more.

In this case without using a fibre-optic light, microscope, etc. it is a gamble to say what can and will be the best cut for a gem like this. You have to measure light retention, internal flaws, healed fractures, zoning, the works... I will say anyone that cuts this behemoth will sure sweat for a few hours as many things can and usually go in a direction you will not want and you must be ready to change course in a moments notice to save weight and face...

I am definitely not promoting myself as I do not want to cut this rock as I have more now than I will ever cut in this lifetime. But I do know it is not for the faint of heart; as I finished a cuprian 48 carat finished weight gem 3 years ago and I lost about 2 nights sleep and was so thankful it was out of my hands in the hands of a private courier to go back home to its owner...

Too much stress for an ole guy like me...

But it is so nice for you to show us such a fine specimen of huge sapphire rough. reminds me of the ole days

Merry Christmas and once again I hope Ella does not think I am soliciting business as I am not...

Most respectfully;

Dana M. Reynolds, ASG, csmg #96CGE42

Dana
Thank you sooooo much for your post! This was very informative and I greatly appreciate it!
I have something else to show you since you enjoyed this piece so much. Merry Christmas!

This is another sapphire rough that my friend has..... It is just under 200ct. He is hoping to have both pieces cut but the 133ct would take priority. Perhaps he can make a deal with a master cutter to have both pieces cut.



Here is the 133ct again for comparison.


~Justin

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow

 

[pregcurious]

Amazing.

 

[mastercutgems]

Good Day Justin

All I can say is WOW and I really like to see this stuff is still being dug out of the earth. I did not read or was so enthralled with the pictures I did not notice location; is it Madagascar material??? Can you tell I love big rough LOL


I think the second one is a little more saturated but it may be because it is thicker and therefore will make the color a little more rich. The first one you showed really looks like " if it is totally clean " should make two stones as the depth may be an issue. Of course all depends on having it in hand to evaluate the color, clarity, internal happenings, etc.; if he can take a picture in basic sunlight on a white sheet of paper. If the gem looks black ; well it will be considered saturated and you will need to do a few things to lighten it up like a larger table, bigger pavilion facets, and maybe cut it in two pieces to not concentrate the color so much. As all on this forum know it is better to have a brighter fine blue gem of 8 carats than a black one of 20 carats... On saturated colored minerals it is different than say diamonds or light colored gem minerals as you can cut them as big as you want; you just have to stay in the optical guideline of critical angles, etc. for windowing problems, etc...

But it is so nice to see rough like this; I know I have a few Russian aquamarines that are in the 200+ carat range and it really just makes you in awe of what nature can release to us to see from time-to-time... Only big stones take a long time to cut and polish, mainly polish and with corundum those big tables can make you want to pull what hair you have left out... LOL

Yes you all can tell I have cut too many big gems

Whomever is chosen to cut the gem; I would suggest to you or your friend do a little studying yourself; using the 75 percent ratio depth to width and see what you come up with. That way he will not be overly disappointed with the results; also tell the cutter( if they do not suggest it already) when trimming for the best cut; to save the larger pieces as they too can be cut; and just not grind off all that precious material; as there could be some 2+ carat gems on the perimeter that could be saved. Find a cutter that is a miser and will pretend it is their stone and they will respect the rough as it is.

I guess what I am saying but take too long to do so is tell your friend to TAKE THEIR TIME.... do the research and go for quality and not just for size... As I have seen many huge dark blue sapphires sit in a vault for 20 years and never worn or sold; only to be sent back to the cutter and made into 2- 11 carat gems that were sold within a week and in all reality brought more money than they asked for the huge one... So there is much to ponder...

I know I polish 500 year old Japanese Samurai swords as a hobby and you have to have respect for the maker of these things as once it is ground off; you can not replace it. Same way with fine facet rough; it is getting harder to come by in very nice stuff; and stones like the 2 you showed here are more rare than most can imagine...

But please send your pictures of the finished piece when they have it done as I would really love to see what they did with it.

Thank you again for showing the group that rough really does exist like this as it is more rare than most know and seeing it in this way is a wonderful Christmas present

Thank you again and Most respectfully;

Dana

 

[chrono]

I'm not good at reading rough but that 133 ct rough looks to have more potential than the 200 ct rough.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Good Day Justin

All I can say is WOW and I really like to see this stuff is still being dug out of the earth. I did not read or was so enthralled with the pictures I did not notice location; is it Madagascar material??? Can you tell I love big rough LOL


I think the second one is a little more saturated but it may be because it is thicker and therefore will make the color a little more rich. The first one you showed really looks like " if it is totally clean " should make two stones as the depth may be an issue. Of course all depends on having it in hand to evaluate the color, clarity, internal happenings, etc.; if he can take a picture in basic sunlight on a white sheet of paper. If the gem looks black ; well it will be considered saturated and you will need to do a few things to lighten it up like a larger table, bigger pavilion facets, and maybe cut it in two pieces to not concentrate the color so much. As all on this forum know it is better to have a brighter fine blue gem of 8 carats than a black one of 20 carats... On saturated colored minerals it is different than say diamonds or light colored gem minerals as you can cut them as big as you want; you just have to stay in the optical guideline of critical angles, etc. for windowing problems, etc...

But it is so nice to see rough like this; I know I have a few Russian aquamarines that are in the 200+ carat range and it really just makes you in awe of what nature can release to us to see from time-to-time... Only big stones take a long time to cut and polish, mainly polish and with corundum those big tables can make you want to pull what hair you have left out... LOL

Yes you all can tell I have cut too many big gems

Whomever is chosen to cut the gem; I would suggest to you or your friend do a little studying yourself; using the 75 percent ratio depth to width and see what you come up with. That way he will not be overly disappointed with the results; also tell the cutter( if they do not suggest it already) when trimming for the best cut; to save the larger pieces as they too can be cut; and just not grind off all that precious material; as there could be some 2+ carat gems on the perimeter that could be saved. Find a cutter that is a miser and will pretend it is their stone and they will respect the rough as it is.

I guess what I am saying but take too long to do so is tell your friend to TAKE THEIR TIME.... do the research and go for quality and not just for size... As I have seen many huge dark blue sapphires sit in a vault for 20 years and never worn or sold; only to be sent back to the cutter and made into 2- 11 carat gems that were sold within a week and in all reality brought more money than they asked for the huge one... So there is much to ponder...

I know I polish 500 year old Japanese Samurai swords as a hobby and you have to have respect for the maker of these things as once it is ground off; you can not replace it. Same way with fine facet rough; it is getting harder to come by in very nice stuff; and stones like the 2 you showed here are more rare than most can imagine...

But please send your pictures of the finished piece when they have it done as I would really love to see what they did with it.

Thank you again for showing the group that rough really does exist like this as it is more rare than most know and seeing it in this way is a wonderful Christmas present

Thank you again and Most respectfully;

Dana

Dana,
You are very welcome! I thought you would enjoy that.
The first time I saw these two pieces of rough I couldn't even speak. I was just over whelmed by what I was looking at. The 200ct rough is a bit more saturated but as you said the added thickness does play into that. I will see if I can get pictures of both stones on white paper for you!

I agree with you 100% What is the point of a big dark stone when that one stone could be transformed into two beautiful creations! To my eye the 200ct rough has more color zoning in it so I feel it would be better suited for cutting multiple stones instead of one or two large stones. It is so large that I feel whole stones could potentially be cut within the different zones. I am no expert though. I can't wait to have these evaluated.

I believe these are very old Kanchanaburi Thailand material. I will confirm that with my friend. When he showed them to me my first thought was Madagascar especially for the 133ct stone. He has been holding on to these for a very long time, and I admire his resolve.

No worries we are taking our time! Like you said rough like this really doesn't come along every day. I am so excited and honored to be connected to it even in some small way.

Dana, I am so grateful for your input and advice it really means a lot to us! Its nice to hear from someone who has worked with large material and who appreciates it so much.
Best wishes!
~Justin

 

[Justin_Cutter]

I'm not good at reading rough but that 133 ct rough looks to have more potential than the 200 ct rough.

I agree Chrono.
~Justin

 

[Justin_Cutter]

I have confirmation on the origin of the rough.
Boploi Kanchanaburi, Thailand
~Justin

 

[Arcadian]

Justin, that is amazing. those pieces of rough are hyoooge. Thank you (and your friend) for sharing these with us.

-A

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Justin, that is amazing. those pieces of rough are hyoooge. Thank you (and your friend) for sharing these with us.

-A

Arcadian,
You are very welcome! I am glad you enjoyed seeing them.
~Justin

 

[antoinehoang]

Hi Justin,

I was sometimes in same situation of yours. Maybe should you also consider Jerrold Green from Reginald C Miller Ltd (New York) and Yvan from Gem & Gold Creation (Scottsdale, AZ). These folks used to cut this kind of value stones. You can mention my name..

I wish you best lucks.

 

[Justin_Cutter]

Hi Justin,

I was sometimes in same situation of yours. Maybe should you also consider Jerrold Green from Reginald C Miller Ltd (New York) and Yvan from Gem & Gold Creation (Scottsdale, AZ). These folks used to cut this kind of value stones. You can mention my name..

I wish you best lucks.

antoinehoang, I actually know Yvan from Gem & Gold Creations. He currently has some of my own personal Tourmaline rough
Thanks!
Justin