Grad school costs..

[luckynumber]

Indy

Several of my friends went to McGill and raved about it.

Can I also add a huge ditto to what Circe said? She knows the score and speaks the truth!

 

[Dreamer_D]

A word of advice to anybody reading this and considering a humanities Ph.D.: for the love of Mike, do not attend an unfunded program. Aside from the whole practical aspect of "You are now 100K in the hole, and your best-bet starting salary in a field with 9 openings nation-wide is 60K," schools that don't fund tend to be objectively worse schools, in terms of reputation, resources, and retention. It's throwing good money after bad. Take a year: teach, if you can find a CC or non-profit that will look good on your CV; retake the GREs; revamp your rec. letters and writing samples, and try again. But don't cripple your chances from the get-go by attending anything less than the best school possible, with the best system of support possible.

I agree completely. Any programme in social sciences worth its salt will guarantee a minimum amount of funding to its students. If they cannot fund you at all it means they do not have research grants to pay students, and if they do not have research grants you cannot fund your research, and then you cannot get a job. So don't bother unless there is funding in place. At my present university I guaranteed my incoming students $17k per annum at a minimum (from a variety of sources) which is not much but should pay living expenses etc where we live. My grad programme was a better one and I was guaranteed $23k per annum minimum.

This does not apply to professional prgrams where they figure you will one day make enough money that you can afford debt, or the applicant pool is so competitive that school do not NEED to offer funding to get top students -- in Canada this is Law, Medicine, and clinical psychology to name a few. Teacher's college and MA programmes in councelling and social work also do not typically offer funding, but these are 2 year programs so the cost is not huge anyways.

IndyLady No, the main scholarships in Canada are the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada and provincial programs like Ontario Graduate Scholarships (big shout out to both for paying my way!), and neither is available to international students. International students either need a guarantee from their supervisor for funding (hard to get) or they need to take loans. Tuition is also higher for international students. So it is hard for such students to come here for studies.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I personally would not advise anyone to get an MA in a non-profession. If you just want to go to graduate school for an MA, get an MBA, a law degree--something that easily translates into a job once you finish. These markets are having trouble, too, but once you get a job you will be in much better position to repay your loans than if you get an MA in a humanities or social science. I hear that MAs in applied statistics are also doing quite well, so that could be an option since you have a sociology background (if you like that aspect of it).

Ditto this completely as well.

Also, top schools and top programmes in a given field are not synonymous. So if a top school is not offering funding in its program, I would wager the program is not that great despite its address.

 

[Haven]

I used loans and worked full-time to get through my first master's, which as an MA program in secondary English ed. That program cost about 20K, but I was able to pay that off easily since I was working FT. I needed that program to become a public HS teacher.

My former employer paid for my entire second master's degree. It was in reading and literacy, and it would have cost about 22K had I had to pay for it myself.

I love my job, so I'm very happy I earned both degrees. I'm not sure I would have earned my MEd in reading and literacy if my employer hadn't paid for it, but knowing what I know now, it would have been worth it even if I did have to pay.

Big decisions, IndyLady! Good luck!

 

[kama_s]

Indy: Both University of Toronto and Mcgill are excellent schools. Both literally alternate as the top school in Canada. UofT has better grad resources and Mcgill would be slightly better for undergrad. Mind you, I am oversimplifying it - it varies based on program. I studied at UofT and my husband at Mcgill, so we constantly try and one-up each other when Macleans publishes it's list of top schools!

As for funding, it would depend on the source of the stipend. Most, but not all, require Canadian PR or citizenship status to be eligible. Some programs are funded directly by the department, in which case they would (I think) be open to anyone.

 

[Indylady]

Katamari, would you mind shooting the mods an email? I have, but haven't received a response yet.

And, thank you all for your responses! You've given me a lot to think about. I've spent the last week . I appreciate everyone's help and advice!

 

[Bunny007]

I took out loans for everything, with the exception of a modest scholarship. I have to say, I regret it almost every day. I graduated right when the economy tanked and so did my immediate job prospects. Having a lot of student loan debt keeps me tethered to a job and a field that I don't particular like. I did enjoy grad school immensely but if I could do it again, I probably would have traded my school's name recognition for a lower tuition rate, that's all.

Disclaimer: My outlook probably has more to do with my job than my debt, I'm not sure. I'm still in the beginning stage of my career so hopefully my situation will improve at some point.

 

[Tuckins1]

I do not have any grants or tuition help. We are paying out of pocket for my Master's, and DH's Bachelor's from UofM. I will probably take out another small student loan to finish grad school, because otherwise we are going to completely empty our bank account!!

 

[katamari]

Katamari, would you mind shooting the mods an email? I have, but haven't received a response yet.

And, thank you all for your responses! You've given me a lot to think about. I've spent the last week . I appreciate everyone's help and advice!

Sorry, IndyLady. I have been busy moving and just saw this. I will e-mail the mods.

EDITED

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

I am completing a PhD in Clinical Psych in Canada and I have received funding from federal and provincial scholarships which were approx. 15-30 g a year. TAing is another 5-10 g a year. This has covered my living costs and tuition for the last 5 years. Winning scholarships has a lot to do with your research and whether or not funding agencies think it's worth contributing money to... No research = no moolah.

Although international students would benefit from lower tuition costs (compared to the states) in grad programs, you will have a very difficult time receiving funding unless you are Canadian. Canadian funding agencies don't like to fund international students (in terms of scholarships) and American funding agencies don't like to give funding to students leaving the US.... So it's always better to stay within your home country unless the difference in tuition makes it worth it regardless.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Indy: Both University of Toronto and Mcgill are excellent schools. Both literally alternate as the top school in Canada. UofT has better grad resources and Mcgill would be slightly better for undergrad. Mind you, I am oversimplifying it - it varies based on program. I studied at UofT and my husband at Mcgill, so we constantly try and one-up each other when Macleans publishes it's list of top schools!

As for funding, it would depend on the source of the stipend. Most, but not all, require Canadian PR or citizenship status to be eligible. Some programs are funded directly by the department, in which case they would (I think) be open to anyone.

I vote for U of T. I am not a Mcgill fan hahah. Totally overrated... For social sciences, I recommend Concordia U in Montreal.

 

[zoebartlett]

I'm late to this thread but I'll chime in anyway. I went to grad school on student loans, and it will take a LONG tme to pay them off. Was it worth it? Yes, definitely, because it's strongly encouraged that teachers have a graduate degree. I have an M.Ed. in literacy and I'm a certified elementary teacher. A few of my friends don't though, and I don't consider it a big deal. They're excellent at what they do. I decided to go to gread school full time, and I'm really glad I did it. I worked part time, then completed a year long (unpaid) internship, then worked full time in the last year while going to school. The money that I earned during that time helped pay the bills but I still needed financial aid to get me through to the end of my 2-3 year program.

My husband's considering going to grad school but he hasn't decided on what program he'd like to enter. He's considering an MBA program, or one more directly related to his IT position he has now and has had for a number of years. No matter what program he decides on, he'll most likely get tuition reimbursement through his company. He doesn't want to take out loans, and if we can figure out a way to pay out of pocket until the reimbursement comes through each quarter (or whatever), we'll do it. Anything not to have to rely on loans again.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

I did my PhD in social psychology and earned between $25k and $50k per year from government scholarships and TA stipends in grad school and on my post-doc. No school debt for me. This is common is top programmes in my country.

Hey Dreamer! I had no idea you were in psych as well! What University did you go to? Are you working in Toronto now?

 

[Clio]

I got an MA and PhD in history. I had fellowships and assistantships, so I didn't have any debt. Given the state of the academic job market, I would not recommend taking on debt for graduate school in humanities and most social science fields if the goal is a job as a professor. No one wants to end up with tens of thousands in debt and working as an adjunct for $3000 a course. The situation might change if one is going to an academic field that's in more demand or going into a private sector job that pays better.

I also get the sense that professional school can be different, but I know very little about them (although reading Above the Law has spooked me about the market for lawyers).

 

[Blackpaw]

Ive been thinking about further study recently...not for the immediate future but if i ended up back in Australia its definitely an avenue id consider pursuing...

So in Australia, university education is subsidized by the government. So for my undergrad it was approx $6,000 a year (Bachelor of Arts (English, Political Science; Diploma of Modern Languages) for four years. And i was lucky enough to have my family pay for that.

My Grad Dip and Masters worked out as approx $18,000 (3 semesters full-time) which i now have as debt. That said, the interest is only a % or two per annum, is taken from your income before tax, and you dont need to start paying it until you're earning over 36k a year (or something like that). So its a pretty great system in Australia.

For a humanities Phd tuition is free, but of course you have your living expenses to cover...i think id want to either have some funding, or else be able to work a little for my uni faculty...

 

[swimmer]

For anyone interested in an MEd or an MAT to teach History, consider applying for a James Madison Memorial Congressional Fellowship, it pays for everything and you just have to promise to teach for as many years as they funded you. One person gets it every year in every state. The JMMFF made it possible for me to get two masters in the humanities with no cost to me and my current PhD program is fully funded so I'm only out the loss of earnings for those years I do research or teach at the university for a stipend that is a fraction of what I can get teaching public high school.

Dittoing Circ BIG TIME! Every time one of my grad students declares she, "wants to teach at the college level" I surprise them by how very little humanities profs make, how very hard it is to get a job, and how most tenured positions have been filled by the same old guys who will fill those chairs till after their deaths...Yes, you can detect my bitterness. I think my graduate students who want to become professors are on par with my teenage students who all want to be rappers or professional athletes; the odds of becoming a tenured humanities prof are increasingly slim. So many of my friends who are done and dusted are adjuncts, just scraping by at prestigious universities by teaching a few classes every semester, thrilled to get health insurance and 20k...which doesn't pay for much in Boston. One of my cohort is now produce manager at Trader Joe's, another works at our CVS, and several work at indie coffee shops. At least Harvard was fully funded, but we are facing a dismal job market these days.

 

[mrscushion]

Top-tier MBA, paid for by scholarships, my own savings, and a large contribution from my parents. I just graduated, so we will see what the long-term ROI is, but I've achieved all the immediate goals (network, job, geographic change, income out of school) I set for myself when starting the program.

 

[iheartscience]

I work full time at a university and get 2 free classes a semester, graduate-level classes included. I'm currently working on my MPH in Epidemiology. I have no desire to stop working full-time to be in school full-time, so this works well for me.

 

[pennquaker09]

My graduate degree is in Education (curriculum and instruction, urban teaching) and it was around 32K. The GSE school at Penn has a wonderful aid program, so I don't think any full-time degree seeking student pays full tuition. I received an academic scholarship for my actual degree, but I paid out of pocket for the courses for my teaching certification. That was around 37K. And by out of pocket, I mean I used money that was intended for my undergraduate education, but I had a full ride so I never used it.

Ph.D. students are Penn receive full funding for almost all of their program. I'm not sure if that's true outside of the GSE, however.

 

[Lilac]

I had two choices when it came to grad school - one would cost $45,000 and one would cost about $90,000. Both were similar programs, but one school has a much better name and therefore is more widely recognized (and would hopefully give me a better chance of finding a job after graduation).

My dream school was the one that was more expensive, but my parents offered/insisted on paying for my grad school so I told them I would go to the less expensive school to save money because they were already being more than generous enough even just paying any part of it. They told me they really wanted me to go to the more expensive school because of the name, the much better location, and the fact that it had always been my "dream" school and my goal to get into that school. So in the end I chose the more expensive one, they will likely be paying for the majority of the tuition (if not all of it), and I couldn't be more grateful to them.

Had I been paying for it on my own without the help of my parents, I would have gone to the less expensive school. I can't imagine graduating and then having the burden of $100,000 in school loans to pay back (especially when my field won't really pay more than around $70,000 anyway - and that's after working for several years!) To me, it wouldn't have been worth it to take out that much in loans when the amount I would be making after graduation wasn't enough to pay them back easily or quickly.

 

[CNOS128]

I paid for my MA in Education (Reading/Literacy) with student loans. I think it was about $32,000 in total, and the 3% interest rate I got on loans back in those days made it a really good deal. I paid off all my loans, and then went to law school on a full-tuition scholarship (like Octavia's, mine was conditioned on being in the top 40% of the class). If I hadn't gotten a full scholarship, I'm not sure I would have gone to law school (or at least stayed past the first year).
With the law job market what it is, if I were making the decision now, I would be really reluctant go to law school without at least some scholarship. I know all sorts of people with no jobs (or prospects) and $150,000+ of debt.

 

[omieluv]

Grad school was funded via student loans and was able to pay off the total ($60,000) in about 6 years. My first job's starting salary was well below what I thought I would be earning, so my parents allowed me to live at home for a few years while I worked to pay off my loans and save money to move out. This really helped me out, as I was able to make a huge dent in paying off my loans. At the time I consolidated all of my loans, I locked into a 6% interest rate. This was before interest rates on student loans dropped dramatically. Given my interest rate was high (well 6% is not terrible), I wanted to pay off my loan quickly. Was it the best financial move on my part, not sure, however, it feels great to not have that damn loan hanging over my head anymore. I should note that while living at home, I paid my parents rent and took care of all of my personal expenses (cell phone, food, clothes, etc).

My undergrad is in psychology, so I decided to pursue my MA in Industrial/organizational psychology, because it interested me more at the time. I would have to say that having a master's degree has started to pay off in the last 4 years of working. My I/O degree lends itself well to the HR realm, so I have been working in that field. Not to mention that it makes me more competitive when looking for work.

My brother works for a private university, which paid for 80% of his grad degree. He paid the rest out of pocket, so he does not have debt from his degree, however, he is still paying off his undergrad degree. My FI, is still working on his BA. Currently, he is enrolled in an accelerated business program and his work his helping to cover the costs, so he is able to pay the difference out of pocket. If he decides to go for his MBA, his employer will continue to help him. My dad had his law degree covered by the military (he is a Vietnam Veteran).

 

[Indylady]

This thread has resurrected itself! Perfect timing, as I'm literally mid-application. Work+apps makes for a busy time, so I've mostly been doing a little light lurking.

Omie- Very interesting! I considered Organizational Behavior after my freshman/sophmore year of college. Unfortunately, I only got into one course as an undergraduate (organizational behavior was a business course at my university and therefore limited access to non-majors) and I had a class conflict, so I never ended up getting to take the course.

I have to run, but thank you all for your responses!! It has been very, very helpful for me to read about the many career paths you all have chosen!

 

[SarahLovesJS]

I have loans..lots of loans.