Good Deal? Can I Haggle?

[brandanop]

Hi Guys,

After months of pouring over pricewatch and vendors like bluenile, whiteflash, etc. I finally made my way into a actual store. I live in Ma and went to a highly reknowned jewler. He showed me four stones and I liked the following:

1.00ct
E color
SI1 (cloud from 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock feather at 4 o'clock, on edges only, very eye clean)
Very Good Polish
Good Symetry
depth 61.1%
table 59%
GIA cert (but I didn't see it)

He was asking $5600

Does this sound like an ok deal? I really wanted ideal cut, he said it was good, but without crown and pavilion angles I can't check. It looks close to Internet vendor deals. Can I haggle? I would love to scoop it up for closer to $4500

Thanks!
Pete

 

[fortheloveofdiamonds]

the table size has me concerned that the stone was cut for weight retention instead of beauty. As for the price.. I ran a search that came up one E SI1 stone that are similar in table and depth percentage than the one you are considering. It is GIA and the stone is offered by several vendors and have about a $400 price difference for the same stone.

1.00 E SI1 61.5% 59% GIA m-stk fd no ex ex no 6.38-6.43x3.94mm $6058 $6057*S

1.00 E SI1 61.5% 59% GIA m-stk fd no ex ex no 6.38x6.43x3.94 $6059 $6059*SP

1.00 E SI1 61.5% 59% GIA m-stk fd no ex ex no 6.38-6.43x3.94 $6159 $6159*SP

1.00 E SI1 61.5% 59% GIA m-stk fd no ex ex no "6.38-6.43x3.94" $6173 $6173SP

1.00 E SI1 61.5% 59% GIA m-stk fd no ex ex no 6.38-6.43x3.94 $6249 $6249*S

1.00 E SI1 61.5% 59% GIA m-stkfd no ex ex no 6.38-6.43x3.94 $6431 $6431

 

[Cath]

Here is another diamond that is similar in specs to yours -- the table is 1% larger, but it almost matches what you posted:

$5295 from DCD
Laboratory: GIA
Carat Weight: 1
Color: E
Clarity: SI1
Shape: Round
Depth: 61.1%
Table: 60%
Polish: GD
Symmetry: VG
Culet: N
Girdle: VTN-MDF
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.42x6.47x3.94

The price your jeweler is giving you seems decent. I don't know if you can negotiate, but I would ask -- I'm not sure you'll be able to haggle down to $4500 though.

 

[TLS]

Hi Brandanop, who out of curiousity is the renowned jeweler in MA? Curious because I live in MA too.

thanks

 

[KBerly]

yeah, i wanna know too

 

[Mara]

here's my blunt two cents from someone who owned a larger tabled stone and now has an ideal cut.

you really have to know what you like in terms of LOOK from a diamond. if this stone has more brilliance than fire, common with larger tabled stones, you may love that crispy white look. but you are sacrificing fire within the stone. an ideal stone looks VERY DIFFERENT from a stone that has a larger table and is more brilliant, just as it looks different from a steep/deep stone combo as well.

so if you saw this diamond in person and really loved it, you may like that larger table look. you may not like an ideal cut stone. BUT i think you should see both in person before you decide. i say this because i loved my original stone, but it always felt a bit dead in places....i got my ideal cut stone and it rocks the house, it literally knocks my socks off in alot of situations where my old stone didn't seem lively. i had a friend who saw my new stone and she noted that she felt my old stone wasn't ever really super lively, but this one was amazing. this coming from someone who knew nothing about diamonds..only the sparkle that comes from them.

so that said, it's a preference. i would not mind that stone i had for a pendant where the size and white brilliance would most likely be an asset since it'd be sparkling from my neck, but on my hand i wanted that ideal cut sparkler which got my attention all the time.

there's no way for you to know if this is a 'good' cut vs an ideal or whatever...without getting those crown and pavilion angles. however, you may not mind if you just love this stone and don't care. BUT you noted you were on pscope pouring over diamonds from other vendors for a while which leads me to believe you do want a great stone for a great deal. to me this stone doesn't seem super impressive, only 'good' cut? only good symmetry? larger table? no crown and pav angles? you didn't see the cert? why not? isn't spending $5k worth seeing the cert?

just be sure that is what you are getting and you know all the facts before you buy. it's easy to get suckered into buying offline when you have a stone in front of you and it's pretty. that is what happened to us, i had 4 months of Pscope education under my belt, went into our local jeweler and was sold on the larger tabled stone that my hubby liked and that was that. just know what you are buying and don't impulse buy, whatever or wherever it is!!

good luck!!

 

[brandanop]

Thank you all for your help. I agree with all of your points about not wavering on my requirements. I plan to get the best ring possible for the money. I guess we all do. I am not concerned with a huge stone (my girlfriend''s hands are small), I just want it to be beautiful and the highest possible quality. The jewler I visited was Barmakian Jewlers in Framingham. The salesman Michael was very nice and helpful. I cam in at 7:30pm (they closed at 8

0) told him what I wanted, and he more or less came through. The only area that he came up a little short was cut. I also checked out listings online and found that he was in the neighborhood of the online vendors. I am sure I could get him to pricematch, but you are all right about the cut, and I don''t want to sacrifice anything. I think I''ll keep looking but I''ll call Mike back before making a final purchase. He may have a good counter offer .

Pete

 

[cindyvet]

Hi, Just wondering what your opinion on a H SI2 for 9900 RB from a wholesaler would be? 1.8C
EGL cert. depth 56.7%
table 59%
crwn ht 11.5
Pav. depth 42.0
med faceted
Sym v. g.
fl faint
polish g to vg
8.11x8.07x4.59 msmts???

Been shopping the net and am very confused. WAnted a cushion , but the RB was so much bigger and sparkled more than the cushion he brought. Kind of scared to put 10 grand out on the net and pray.
Is there anything that is a real good deal and good quality that you saw on the net in either of these cuts? I am at a loss on how to read which will be the best.
Thanks for any replies and any assistance.
cindy

 

[Mara]

Date: 2/5/2005 8:40:24 PM
Author: cindyvet
Hi, Just wondering what your opinion on a H SI2 for 9900 RB from a wholesaler would be? 1.8C
EGL cert. depth 56.7%
table 59%
crwn ht 11.5
Pav. depth 42.0
med faceted
Sym v. g.
fl faint
polish g to vg
8.11x8.07x4.59 msmts???

Been shopping the net and am very confused. WAnted a cushion , but the RB was so much bigger and sparkled more than the cushion he brought. Kind of scared to put 10 grand out on the net and pray.
Is there anything that is a real good deal and good quality that you saw on the net in either of these cuts? I am at a loss on how to read which will be the best.
Thanks for any replies and any assistance.
cindy

I'd be kind of scared putting $10k out for that stone, whether it's on the internet or not.

I ran it through the HCA and while the %'s of the crown and pav are not as accurate as the angles would be, the HCA gave it a 4.2 on a scale of 0-10...not great at all. I focus on purchasing stones under 2.0 for myself.
The table and depth indicate this is a shallow brilliant type of stone, it will appear bigger and whiter but you are sacrificing fire and probably some scintillation with it. I had a stone like this and prefer my ideal cut stone over it hands down in terms of best performance in most situations.

I would keep looking. For $10k you may have to drop the carat weight a bit to keep H SI color/clarity, but the cut is going to be what is king here, do you want a bigger stone that doesn't sparkle as well or a slightly smaller stone that blows your socks off?

Lastly, EGL certs depending on where they are from may not be reliable, so an H SI2 may be an I SI3/I1 depending...so if you do decide to get an EGL stone, make sure to get that independent appraisal to ensure it's what it says it is. Or focus on GIA/AGS certs.

When you are buying sight unseen, all the numbers and images (get IS and actual images of the stone) DO matter...Good luck!

Edited to add:
Found these two as similar, the first one is I SI but it's an excellent cut, still over $10k though:
http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-13924204

and then this one from DCD which is $12k so def over $10k:
http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6946082&ref=PS622

But it shows you what these types of stones that are actually well-cut will cost you, the stone you are considering is probably priced down for three reasons: cut, EGL cert and the faint fluor.

 

[cindyvet]

Thank you for replying. I saw the shallow big diamond in person and could not see any flaws even under 16x loop, but then again I need bifocals and refuse to surcumb to aging.( I like living in a wrinkle less world!) I was just not so sure about the sincerity of the seller. He got it on trade in. Keeps saying it is a great buy and he could sell it easily to a store. Do you work for one of the internet companies listed here? You sound so knowledgeable. I actually can go to 12 grand , but am scared of finding someone to make the setting if I buy over the net. I want to design it. A Jeweler in my area said he will not work with diamonds he has not sold, because he does not trust them, and his insurance would sky rocket???? I will check out Monday the one you told me about. The other link did not come out to dcd.
thanks
cindy

 

[Mara]

Woops I posted the same link twice, the link to DCD diamond is here:

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6946082&ref=PS622http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-13924204

I don't work for any of the diamond companies...I'm just an obsessed consumer. Hang out here for 3 years and you'll be one too...hee hee.

I was clueless like most people when I came here and now I have a stringent set of requirements for any stone that I would purchase, whether it be online, offline, round or fancy cut...and I know better than most the importance of not settling when it comes to diamonds. My first stone was like this large shallow brilliant stone you are considering, and I loved it but always felt it was lacking. When I got my ideal cut stone I have now, I actually saw the ways my other stone had been lacking. My previous stone WAS beautiful, but this new stone definitely sparkled in better ways in more conditions...so it was just all around a smarter choice for me. I would love a brilliant white spready stone for something like a pendant because I think that white sparkle on the neck would be fabulous, but for an e-ring or on the hand, I am all about the ideal cuts in rounds.

For a great cushion, check out the thread in the Show me the Ring forum that says 'Have ring, waiting to propose' or something like that, his cushion ring is FABULOUS....note that the diameter of it is smaller than a same carat weight round stone which might make a difference in terms of your decision depending on what kind of look you are going for. Cushions and rounds are both beautiful in their own ways. So in terms of which you like better, you should definitely see both in person before making a decision to go round or cushion.

Good luck!