Giving a *nudge* and the divorce rate...

[luckystar112]

First, let me say....that it is SO comforting to know that other girls on this board have had to give their BF''s a *nudge* when it comes to proposing. If I hadn''t discovered this forum and found out other girls were in the same situation, my self esteem would probably be non-existant!

But, with the divorce rate being so high--do you think that this in any way contributes to it?
I think most of us are safe, because we only give the *nudge* after we KNOW that our BFs want to marry us...instead of putting him in a corner. But what about those that DO put their BF''s in a corner?

I actually don''t at ALL believe in the 50% statistics for divorce. For one thing, the success rate for first time marriages is a lot higher than people want you to believe. The 50% percentage rate for divorce is so high due to the "serial marriers" with multiple divorces under their belts. (I''m sure all of us know at least ONE person that has been married 3-4 times.)

I was just wondering about this today...probably because I''m going to be engaged soon, and I did have a "talk" with my BF just like so many of you lovely ladies have. Maybe I''m just paranoid.

I don''t think I''m making my BF do anything he doesn''t want to do, but I do wish I didn''t have to give that "nudge". Does anyone else feel that way?

 

[bee*]

Yep-I''d love not to have to have to nudge too. I know though that D won''t do anything that he doesn''t want to do so buying the ring was a huge deal to him. Now if only he''d pass it onto me it would be much better!
Not sure if it contributes to the divorce rate though. I''d say that we could be in a better position as at least bot of us will be sure that it''s what we want by the time that the engagement comes around. I think that if you jump in without thinking about it properly and just get caught up in the romance of it all that you might be in trouble later when the romance dissapears and real life takes over.

 

[Haven]

I think the high divorce rate has much more to do with people taking too little time to prepare for marriage than taking too much time. What I mean to say is: if our BFs need a nudge to take the leap, then they''re probably taking the whole commitment-for-life thing very seriously, as opposed to a very young couple, for instance, who jumps into marriage without being mature enough to realize the practical implications of their decision.

And yes, those serial brides and grooms do skew the numbers.

Don''t worry about your nudge, Lucky, I think it''s completely normal. If it took your BF a very strong kick in the pants and crazy-woman ultimatums, then you''d have something to worry about!

 

[WTNLVR]

I don''t think nudging is related to the divorce rate at all. I nudged my hubby and his parents threatened him with kicking him out of the house on his own in order to get him to propose. We were 25 and had been dating for 7 yrs! He "had no other choice" so he proposed (kidding. We''ve been married 18 yrs this September. It comes down to compatibility. If you marry someone you genuinely LIKE and love, you''ll be fine. If you don''t LIKE the man, you are doomed to failure. My hubby always gripes that I call him my best friend- but it is true, and I think without friendship, you have nothing to base a long term relationship on.

 

[AdaBeta27]

No, I don't think it's the nudging that prompts the high divorce rate. I tend to blame high debt levels, low incomes, low educational levels, lack of employable skills, rampant outsourcing of jobs, and poverty in general. American culture paints a rosy picture of the happy & prosperous family like it was in the '50s & '60s, and if you watch, there's a whole lot more pressure for today's women to devote less time to careers and more to family. The churches also push people (and particularly women) to marry and do the usual family-raising thing. People may marry for better or for worse, but very few have any concept of just how little fun it's going to be if you are financially strapped all of the time. The fact is, you can't be married and raise a family if you have no money! I recall hearing a statistic back around 1987 or so that said the average American family of four, living in an average-cost American city would need a gross income of $56000 in order to have any disposable income and save for retirement and 2 children's educations. What would that be now: $80000 to $90000? I live in a very economically thrashed area, as in 20 years ago it was depressed and by now it's totally hopeless. Once the kids start coming, marriages break up, guys take off, and women then "marry the state" (go on government assistance) to get by. Kids out-of-wedlock and single parenting used to be just a black problem. Now it's widespread among both races here.

Substance abuse and spousal abuse are two other factors that I also see contributing to high divorce rates locally. When I look around at who has been married & divorced 3 or 4 times, the typical profile here is high school education or GED, guy works in one of the local mills or can't hold a job, woman works as nurses aide, beautician, or similar and can't afford to support herself and her children without a husband. The guys tend to be macho types who have screwed up their own lives & finances so bad that they will never be financially secure. They are mean, bitter control freaks who will slap a woman around or use any pther kind of intimidation just to feel like they can control something in their own lives. The women who marry them have low self esteem, and as I'v esaid, no financial independence. And one or both partner has had or still has some type of substance abuse problem.

I see darned few divorces and a lot more domestic harmony in the smattering of educated and prosperous couples who have incomes in the $80000 range or above than I do in the trashy millworker households. I had an interesting conversation with one woman who's been married & divorced twice and had just married for the third time. She said the divorce rate is so high because the men are still doing just as they please, like they've always done, but the women "are no longer putting up with it." There's truth in that too. My mother said that back in the '50s it was just not acceptable to divorce no matter how bad it got. And that society shunned and blamed the woman for breaking up the marriage, even if she'd been abused. She said if you were a divroced woman back then, you had no place to go and no place in society.

 

[Independent Gal]

Well, if you want to know the truth, I''ll tell you what''s caused the apparently high divorce rate. Shhhhhh... it''s a secret. It''s two words: my dad!

(mind you he has a ph.d. and makes about 12 times as much money as I do...but every statistic has variability!!!).

 

[luckystar112]

LOL IG!

Your dad is the cause of the high divorce rate...

my dad is the cause of overpopulation!!

 

[cherry_vanilla]

I don't think it's the "nudging" that's the problem in that regard - it's demanding, hardcore ultimatums, guilt-tripping, etc to weasel a proposal out of him that I think are a bigger concern. And even that, from what I've seen (albeit among the younger crowd) those who were heavily pressured into proposing wound up ending it before any serious wedding plans were made.

But along that note, I suppose it could be argued that many of the "usual suspects" for divorce (at least those that occur before the 5 or 10 year mark) can stem from rushing in, which may or may not be due to one party goading the other into it. Honestly to me it really just seems to be a reflection that we live in a time where divorce ISN'T so heavily ostracized, as Adabeta mentioned. Having a starter marriage isn't terribly uncommon, and leaving an unhappy marriage 20+ years down the road isn't going to completely ruin you.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I know for a fact that the divorce rate is not anywhere near the 50%+ figure that is thrown around. The 50% is arrived at by taking the number of divorces granted for a single period of time (say a year) and the number of marriages performed for the same period of time - which doesn''t yield the most accurate results.

Factors that contribute to divorce: children, money, sex and religion. I think that you MUST communicate about these things before getting married or you are setting yourself up to fail. If you want 5 kids and he wants none then you are headed for trouble. Likewise, if you cannot work out religious differences you are more likely to get divorced. I think that pre-marital counseling should be required for everybody - religious or not - and I do not think that the counseling has to be religious in nature. Couples need to sit down and talk about these issues (and others) BEFORE getting married to make sure they are on the same page. I also think that If you are married and are experiencing difficulties you should try to work it out - unless the problems are severe - such as abuse or neglect.

I''ve also noticed that if the woman is older than the man that there is a higher risk for divorce or if a couple has children prior to marriage there is a higher risk for divorce. I keep track of this info as part of my job and it is something that I see time and time again.

Most of the people that come to my office for a divorce are: poor, uneducated and underemployed (either voluntarily for unvoluntarily). It''s not uncommon for the average divorce client to have previous marriages and/or children from previous relationships.

Unfortunately, we also see a lot of women who are after one thing - child/spousal support. They "can''t" work and want to live off of the support - which is dang near impossible. We also see our fair share of men who think that you can "sign your rights away" to your children as a way of avoiding child support. I don''t think so!

 

[Pandora II]

Giving a ''nudge'' is one thing when you have established the groundwork and the man is in his ''it''s great so why fix it'' frame of mind.

I worry a bit about people who rush into things without knowing themselves properly. When I look back over my relationships there were men I thought I loved but now realise that I was merely obsessed.

There is also the ''we''ve been together x years so we have to get married''. I know 4 sets of people who were dating over 10 years and then got married and were divorced within a year. Same goes for the ''we have a child so we have to get married'' scenario. Obviously there are always exceptions but these tend to be bad reasons to marry.

I agree with the children, money, sex and religion problem causing potential.

I know that if FI suddenly decided to become a priest, take a vow of chastity, give away all our possessions and decide he didn''t want kids - chances are we wouldn''t last very long!