Giving a bad reference for former worker/ employee?

[gregchang35]

Have you ever been in a position where you were put down as a reference/ referee and had to give a bad reference?

I was asked to be a reference for a former employee, which I did not mind. She was first employed by me on a part time basis. She left as she was getting more hours elsewhere. It was a blessing in disguise as after much training, her bedside manner was not improving. We had discussed this a few times.

Since then, a couple of future employers have rung me to find out about the ex employee. I had to be honest about her bedside manner/ softer skills. I also felt bad as i didn't want her not to get another job. then i reasoned, well, it is what it is....

I wonder if anyone else out there had to do that- give a honest/ bad reference.

But i guess, i should have said no for being a reference.

 

[VRBeauty]

I have given references that included negative - or at least not glowing - reviews of certain aspects of former employees' performance when appropriate... i.e., when the person interviewing me asked questions that called for a negative answer. I also address on positive aspects of the candidate's work when questions are asked that deserve a positive response. I've had situations in which an individual was not working out in my particular job, but it seemed like the job they were interviewing for would be a better fit... I answered the questions honestly, and explained why I was giving them a strong recommendation even though they weren't working out that well in my unit, and they got the new job.

There are a few guidelines that I follow in a reference check. First, I'm honest about both the good and the bad. Second, I do my best to take my own biases out of the picture and answer the questions objectively. Third, I let the interviewer take the lead on the questions, and answer only the questions he or she asks without adding a lot of filler or observations unless they ask follow-up questions. That's not to be difficult (I'm being too lazy to look up the work I want to use - obstreperous?), but it's his/her job to ask questions to related to his/her needs, and the shorter answers keep me closer to being objective. Besides, it's entirely possible that some aspect of the candidate's performance that was critical to me would be secondary to the person they're interviewing with now.

Some offices refer all reference checks to HR, and then answer only questions about length of employment etc. I understand that approach, but I'm glad my office doesn't require it since I don't think it's fair to either the employee or their potential employers.

 

[gregchang35]

THanx VRbeauty.

you have given some good advice. just for the record, i did give the good as well.

What if the reference checkers are ppl that you know ie ppl that trained with you and have a good rapport with? how do you keep objective in that situation? i think that they can tell when you are being distant or potentially not saying something????

 

[JewelFreak]

If the person knows you & feels you're not saying something...he or she can ask. If he doesn't, you are not required to bring it up. I would, only if it were a major issue such as stealing from the co., etc. -- and in that case, it would've already come out in answer to why the person doesn't work for me anymore.

VRB's way of handling reference checks is good. You have an obligation to be honest on positive & negative, but not to answer questions not asked.

--- Laurie

 

[yennyfire]

I've had to tell an employee that I'd prefer they not use me as a reference. That's usually enough to give them the idea that they'd be better off with someone else. In the scenario where I was the only boss a person had (i.e. a younger person for whom this was their first job), I'd do exactly as VR Beauty said....answer the questions, but don't elaborate. Be honest, but try not to "bash" the person (i.e. I think Jane would be better suited to a position that didn't involve dealing with clients").

 

[gregchang35]

Thanks guys! Your feedback has been invaluable! Esp VRbeauty. Very practical.

 

[SB621]

If a former employees or co-worker have asked for references and I can't give positive information about them then I tell them straight forward that I'm not the person for them. Just because you might have had problems with your former employee other employers might not have. I would recommend contacting her and removing you from her reference list. You aren't doing her any favors but continuing to be there- in fact you probably our hurting her chances of getting a job. I'm assuming she doesn't have permenante employment if you keep getting called.

 

[sonnyjane]

I've only ever been asked two questions : did this person work for you from x to y dates, and would you hire them again?

I just verify the dates and then say yes I'd hire again or "no, probably not". That's all they need to hear. No need to go into details about why you wouldn't.

 

[House Cat]

I've only ever been asked two questions : did this person work for you from x to y dates, and would you hire them again?

I just verify the dates and then say yes I'd hire again or "no, probably not". That's all they need to hear. No need to go into details about why you wouldn't.

I thought this was the only legal information that could be given?


Is everyone else speaking of personal references?

 

[Smith1942]

I also thought that giving negative references was illegal (possibly I'm getting mixed up with the laws in the UK here) and that the date check was the only thing that could be used. Due to lawsuits, I thought that references had largely gone the way of the dodo now.

It's very true that an employee can be totally unsuited to one workplace and shine in another. I had one boss who piled client upon client upon client on me - much more so than anyone else - until I seethed with resentment. (I was very young and lacked the confidence to address it appropriately.) I was hardly the most motivated, happy, hardworking employee at that place. Then I went somewhere else where I felt appreciated and treated like a human being, and it worked out beautifully. That company still gives me work today and we have a great relationship, whereas myself and the other boss don't speak to this day - even though we are both in touch with all the other mutual former employees. I shudder to think what reference he would give me, and it would be a completely skewed view of me.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I've only ever been asked two questions : did this person work for you from x to y dates, and would you hire them again?

I just verify the dates and then say yes I'd hire again or "no, probably not". That's all they need to hear. No need to go into details about why you wouldn't.

I thought this was the only legal information that could be given?


Is everyone else speaking of personal references?

Yes, as far as I know, really they can only ask about length of employment and if you'd hire them again. This is really difficult territory and probably why often companies hire out third-party background checkers rather than make the reference calls themselves.

As far as giving a bad reference...I don't see why you'd agree to have your name put down as a reference unless you can give a positive one. Does the previous employee truely KNOW that you were not happy w/her "bedside manner?" She may have acted like she understood, but actually didn't get the hint. At this point in my life, I would say no to someone who asked me to give them a reference unless it's easy and to the point. One person asked me to lie and say she had been my kids' nanny so she could get a job as a nanny...she had never even interacted with my kids except at pre-set functions other people had set up.

 

[amc80]

I've only ever been asked two questions : did this person work for you from x to y dates, and would you hire them again?

I just verify the dates and then say yes I'd hire again or "no, probably not". That's all they need to hear. No need to go into details about why you wouldn't.

I thought this was the only legal information that could be given?


Is everyone else speaking of personal references?

That's what it sounds like. I had a "friend" who put me down as a reference. She said I was her former boss. I worked at the same company and she helped me on some projects (and she was an admin so technically I was above her), but we weren't even in the same department. She did tell me an advance what she did so it wasn't a total shock. I was mostly honest. I told the person who called that I worked with her in a supervisory type of roll but that I wasn't her boss. I was asked why she had quit that job (she was fired) and said it happened after I left (which was true) so I couldn't speak to the details. There was no way I was going to lie so I'm glad I didn't have to.

 

[iLander]

I've had many employees over the years, and I'm shocked that you all are giving as much info as you are. That just opens you up to all kinds of legal blow-back.

I simply gave date hired, date left and that's it.

The people I had to fire were generally smart enough not to use me as a reference.

IF I felt I could be candid, I would use corp-speak: start with the glowing part and end with "I feel her bedside manner will improve as she continues to work on those skills". That type of thing.

Never would I say anything even vaguely unpleasant.

 

[Octavia]

Whatever you do, please make sure you're in a private place when you take the call. At a former job, my cube was across the hall from a high-up's office, and she had very loud telephone conversations without closing her door. Most of the time I just dealt with it, but one of the few times it really upset me was when she spent 1/2 hour giving a bad reference for another former employee. Just...really not good practice any way you look at it.

 

[Matata]

In the US it is not illegal to give an honest reference. Written/verbal references that are negative do not become libelous/slanderous IF the behavior has been documented in the former employee's personnel file. In all my years as an HR director I cannot tell you how many times my organization's managers & supervisors never documented issues with their supervisees choosing instead to "reorganize" their departments and eliminate the position of the problem employee or use "budget cuts" as an excuse, or even worse, make the employee's life hell until s/he quit. Then the ex-employee goes on to become a problem for another organization. And the opposite is also true -- glowing references from employers desperate to get rid of a problem. Made me crazy.

You do have to be diplomatic and professional in how you convey performance issues and those problem areas should be relevant to the position for which the ex-employee is applying.

 

[VRBeauty]

In my state it is legal to give references, and legal to provide a truthful review even if it is negative. Of course there someone could sue anyway and claim that the review was false, and it would be a headache even if you end up winning the suit -- which is why some employers prefer to give just the stats. But that's where keeping the comments fact-based and objective, and not volunteering information, comes in. Besides, I'm required to check references before making an offer, and the reference check is an important part of my decision-making process. I see participating in someone else's reference check as a necessary part of the process, and "paying it forward" in a way.