GIA diamond with IGI #

[kace]

When we brought our diamond to the appraiser, we asked to see the pre-existing inscription on the girdle (as described in the GIA report). Lo and behold, he showed us, under microscope, an IGI number. He explained to us that it may be pre-owned. Since we bought the diamond at a reputable B&M store on 5th Ave, we didn''t think this was a likely explanation. So my questions are:

1. Is there a way to find out if the diamond is pre-owned? I have the IGI number.
2. Could I call up IGI and obtain a copy of the report? If so, is there a cost involved?
3. What would be the reason for having an IGI report and GIA report?

We are intrigued about the origin of our little dazzler.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

There is an IGI website where i believe you can log your # in - here it is
http://12.45.15.232/igiweb/onlinereport/

I tried with some non-usa cert #'s and it did not work though????

the reason it would be regraded is that it was worth more.
This can mean that GIA gave it a more generous grade.
Or maybe it gave the same grade, and since GIA graded diamonds fetch a higher price, this is probably the situation.

Last year a group of us on Pricescope condusted a survey of lab grading strictness - but more importantly we included a comparison of what the prices for the same diamond would be based on each labs grades.

We included AGS, EGL USA and GIA because each of those companies have numerous diamonds listed on B2B web boards for sale. We did not include IGI because their focus is very much on providing innovative services to retailers, such as very nice packaging and many varied options of report types, including H&A's reports etc. Consequently few of their diamonds end up in B2B boards because those dealers and traders dont want the value added services.

Anyway, EGL USA as being the better priced / value lab from that survey (AGS was the strictest), and since IGI are in a similar market niche to IGI, the good people at IGI were very upset that we left them out.

I think that says that they do indeed stand by their grading standards. From my own experiance I find them to be as accurate as GIA on clarity, but much more consistant, and on border line color grades, slightly softer (in which case, we actually sell the stone as the lower grade we believe it to be). This is similar to the difference that we found in the survey between GIA and EGL USA.

I hope you will let us know the outcome?

 

[igs]

Date: 8/14/2005 8:35:16 PM
Author:kace
When we brought our diamond to the appraiser, we asked to see the pre-existing inscription on the girdle (as described in the GIA report). Lo and behold, he showed us, under microscope, an IGI number. He explained to us that it may be pre-owned. Since we bought the diamond at a reputable B&M store on 5th Ave, we didn''t think this was a likely explanation. So my questions are:


1. Is there a way to find out if the diamond is pre-owned? I have the IGI number.

2. Could I call up IGI and obtain a copy of the report? If so, is there a cost involved?

3. What would be the reason for having an IGI report and GIA report?


We are intrigued about the origin of our little dazzler.

From my experience having a GIA or AGS cert makes the diamond a lot more "saleable". While it is possible that the diamond may have been pre-owned another possible scenario is that the vendor may have decided that it would be in his best interest to have an additional certification from GIA in addition to the original one from IGI. Just out of curiosity, could you let me know how the original IGI cert compared with the later cert performed by GIA? Basically it would involve a certain amount of "detective work" to find out from IGI the date of their original appraisal and to see the "time lapse" between appraisals. That may give an indication as to whether or not the diamond was preowned. If the diamond is a "dazzler" as you describe and you''re happy with it and basically everything is OK then maybe just leave it at that. My advice to you is that if you are extremely fussy about having a diamond that no one''s worn before then by all means perform all the detective work and put the pieces of the puzzle together however, if you''re happy with the diamond and your "dazzled" with it''s brilliance maybe it''s best just to leave everything alone. Maybe what wasn''t the best of luck for someone else could bring a lifetime of joy and happiness for you!!!!

 

[Beth]

I have a natural fancy yellow with an IGI report and an IGI number inscribed on the girdle. It also has a GIA color origin report which notes the IGI inscription. I believe that this is not an uncommon situation for natural fancies. Is your diamond a natural fancy color?

 

[kace]

Gary, thanks for the info. I put in the IGI number on their website, and it didn''t work. I''ll give them a ring to see whether I can get a hold of the report.

Martin, I don''t have the IGI report, but when I get it, I''ll post it along with the GIA report. We''re happy with our diamond and don''t mind if it''s pre-owned. The detective work is part of the fun with owning this diamond.

Beth, it''s a radiant. Did the jeweler provide the IGI report and GIA report?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Kace,
Acting as detectives, we know that GIA examined the diamond after IGI examined and inscribed the diamond.
If a seller saw value and bought a diamond with an IGI, and sent it to GIA, it means they felt good about the diamond- sounds like good news for you. This is WAY better than a seller throwing away the GIA and substituting an IGI.
What are the specifics from the GIA report?

My experience is that GIA is the most consistent. The large chain operations have deals worked out with EGL and IGI, so you can find IGI''S and EGL''s at large chain stores- but many smaller sellers are using EGL or IGI to get better grades. They can then sell them to less educated consumers as equivalent to diamonds with the same grade from GIA- the GIA diamond will always be worth more.
Beth, it is not common to find both IGI and GIA reports on Fancy Color Diamonds. Again- it IS ( regretfully) common for sellers to use an EGL or IGI report with a stronger ( more expensive) color than the legitimate GIA report- and pretend no GIA report exists.

Beth, what are the specifics of your fancy color radiant? What clarity did IGI give it, and how about FL?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

David you really should read the survey here http://grading.pricescope.com/

You often perpetuate this myth about grading, negelecting the fact that GIA as a brand means people often pay more for the paper, than they would for the diamond, if they bought it with different paper.

Admittedly 16 stones is a small population, but the survey was conducted impartially, and the CEO''s and Presidents of all 3 labs helped analyze and made suggestions. The fact that it includes pricing data is a world first, and a fact that could only be accomplished by someone in Leonids unique position, and with the benefit of a math science background.

So until you have read it in full, and if you wish to comment on the Forum Topic that is relevant, it would be better if you did not perpetuate what we discovered are unfounded old wives tales.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Garry: As you point out a study of 16 stones tells us....little. I have alot of respect for Leonid, and the intention of the study is obviously good. I do question the results'' relevance in the real world.

I have personal experience with THOUSANDS of diamonds examined by GIA- as well as thousands with EGL paperwork- as well as hundreds with IGI paperwork.

I am basing my statments on our personal experience- we currently have accounts in good standing with all three GIA, EGL-USA and IGI.
I''m not old ( at least that''s what I say) and certainly NOT a wife- so this is no old wives tale- it''s actual NYC market experience.
Even if YOU don''t want my opinion, this is a open discussion, can''t folks make up thier own minds to decide who''s doing the "perpetrating"??

Still, I have looked at the study you refer to, and noticed the following:
1) -trying to fix a value to EGl or IGI or other diamonds without reports is not accurate.
In the market, a diamond with an EGL report may very well bring only half what a diamond with the same grade from GIA brings- NOT 0.935 as indicated in the report.
In fact, diamonds with EGL reports rarely bring 90% of a diamond with an equivalent GIA grade. I can only base this on personal experience- The study makes assumptions on prices based on on-line pricing, therefore, it is not accurate in the real world.
2)- the study is dated August 2004- and market forces have altered prices considerably since then.


People do not pay more for a diamond with a GIA report for NO reason- there is ample reason a diamond with a GIA report sells for more- and in the case of high dollar stones, the prescence of an EGL really spells trouble.


Garry- are you buying EGL''s at .935% of prices for GIA ?

If so, I''m a seller!!!!

 

[Beth]

Kace, yes he provided both. I meant fancy color not fancy cut although it is a fancy cut. I did not get this particular stone there, but an example of a vendor I have purchased from is Josef Herskovitz site which uses both IGI and / or GIA on his diamonds. It is not a combination of reports that seems unfamiliar to me from browsing online but I am no expert and David and Garry in the business.

Hello David, it is no Fl and si1-2. It is an oval brilliant not a radiant. I want to get it reset as an oval 3 stone in an endless love style.

Helllo Garry, it has been awhile.

Kace I would be interested in the outcome. I will email you copies of the certs if you want to see what it looks like when GIA cross references IGI. Let me know, Anyhow I think it would be worthwhile getting a copy of your IGI as supporting documentation and you are not the only consumer that has had this experience.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Cool Beth!!!
Have you noted where else you might have seen sellers advertising both IGI and GIA on the same diamond?
Just curious, because I''ve not seen it.

The reason I ask about clarity and Fl are that these are two things NOT listed on GIA''s color origin report- so that''s the two areas to look at on color origin.
If a cutter fears I1, ( or even SI2) many times they will go for a color origin to hide thse aspects- but if yours was a bad I1, you''d see it.

Did GIA agree with IGI''s color grade?

 

[kace]

Beth, I would love to see your IGI and GIA reports. It will give me a sense of how they compare since our appraiser graded our diamond differently from the GIA report. I wonder if his appraisal of the color and clarity matches the IGI report.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 8/15/2005 2:29:15 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Garry: As you point out a study of 16 stones tells us....little. I have alot of respect for Leonid, and the intention of the study is obviously good. I do question the results'' relevance in the real world.

I have personal experience with THOUSANDS of diamonds examined by GIA- as well as thousands with EGL paperwork- as well as hundreds with IGI paperwork.

I am basing my statments on our personal experience- we currently have accounts in good standing with all three GIA, EGL-USA and IGI.
I''m not old ( at least that''s what I say) and certainly NOT a wife- so this is no old wives tale- it''s actual NYC market experience.
Even if YOU don''t want my opinion, this is a open discussion, can''t folks make up thier own minds to decide who''s doing the ''perpetrating''??

Still, I have looked at the study you refer to, and noticed the following:
1) -trying to fix a value to EGl or IGI or other diamonds without reports is not accurate.
In the market, a diamond with an EGL report may very well bring only half what a diamond with the same grade from GIA brings- NOT 0.935 as indicated in the report.
In fact, diamonds with EGL reports rarely bring 90% of a diamond with an equivalent GIA grade. I can only base this on personal experience- The study makes assumptions on prices based on on-line pricing, therefore, it is not accurate in the real world.you obviously still have not read the article David, just skimmed a couple of the first pages. A bit like your understanding of non contact measuring devices.
I give up on you
2)- the study is dated August 2004- and market forces have altered prices considerably since then.


People do not pay more for a diamond with a GIA report for NO reason- there is ample reason a diamond with a GIA report sells for more- and in the case of high dollar stones, the prescence of an EGL really spells trouble.


Garry- are you buying EGL''s at .935% of prices for GIA ?

If so, I''m a seller!!!!

BEth

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 8/15/2005 4:18:26 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 8/15/2005 2:29:15 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
Garry: As you point out a study of 16 stones tells us....little. I have alot of respect for Leonid, and the intention of the study is obviously good. I do question the results'' relevance in the real world.

I have personal experience with THOUSANDS of diamonds examined by GIA- as well as thousands with EGL paperwork- as well as hundreds with IGI paperwork.

I am basing my statments on our personal experience- we currently have accounts in good standing with all three GIA, EGL-USA and IGI.
I''m not old ( at least that''s what I say) and certainly NOT a wife- so this is no old wives tale- it''s actual NYC market experience.
Even if YOU don''t want my opinion, this is a open discussion, can''t folks make up thier own minds to decide who''s doing the ''perpetrating''??

Still, I have looked at the study you refer to, and noticed the following:
1) -trying to fix a value to EGl or IGI or other diamonds without reports is not accurate.
In the market, a diamond with an EGL report may very well bring only half what a diamond with the same grade from GIA brings- NOT 0.935 as indicated in the report.
In fact, diamonds with EGL reports rarely bring 90% of a diamond with an equivalent GIA grade. I can only base this on personal experience- The study makes assumptions on prices based on on-line pricing, therefore, it is not accurate in the real world.you obviously still have not read the article David, just skimmed a couple of the first pages. A bit like your understanding of non contact measuring devices.
I give up on you.
DO YOU PROMISE GARRY??? Below in pink, is a quote from the study. I am stating here and now that using the internet to determine real world pricing is not accurate- what else shoulod I have read???

3.7. Pricing

Price analysis was based on the statistics and prices of more than 50,000 unique diamond listings available via the Internet during the first week of July, 2004.
2)- the study is dated August 2004- and market forces have altered prices considerably since then.


People do not pay more for a diamond with a GIA report for NO reason- there is ample reason a diamond with a GIA report sells for more- and in the case of high dollar stones, the prescence of an EGL really spells trouble.


Garry- are you buying EGL''s at .935% of prices for GIA ?

If so, I''m a seller!!!!

BEth

 

[Beth]

IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/ancienthills/BethsJewelry/bethsyellowdiamondgiareport.jpg[/IMG]

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Cool Beth,
Did IGI agree with GIA''s color grade?

 

[Beth]

 

[diamondsbylauren]

OK Beth!!
That answers the question- IGI used GIA''s grade- that''s why they are identical.

I will speculate on why this was done:
There was a program where IGI teamed up with eBay to "certify" purchases- that program went down the tubes.
I suspect that''s exactly why this diamond has both.
It''s a good reason why the program failed- having IGI validate GIA results is like.....asking a hobo if he prefers first class travel on Pan Am, or American Airlines.

 

[Beth]

Yes David you are correct, this purchase was a part of that program. I guess that explains, in this situation, the two reports. I got a bargain but I will need to reset, as you can see there are spaces that annoy me and I prefer a heavier setting. Kace I just posted the reports against my better judgement. If it is against policy Leonid can yank the pics. Anyhow you can see that the GIA is a few years prior to the IGI and David has figured out why this particular stone has both reports.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

So that''s it then!

Looking at your setting Beth, we see the look of a commercial "semi mount"

It''s a shank with trills attached. This allows the jeweler to simply shove in any center diamond.
It will look shoved in, but it IS a ring.
To make a ring like this properly, a center section which holds the center and trills must be fabricated, and a shank attached to the center section- but this costs a LOT more than using the pre-made parts which your ring was made from.
Sorry, I do not mean to inslut your ring- but I think you probably want to know

 

[Beth]

No offense taken at all David, I bought for the deal on the center with plans for reset. I will still come out ahead of the game even counting the costs of custom resetting. It is definitely commercial pre fab. I know it is definitely not the quality workmanship I am used to.

Kace, is it possible that your stone went through this program too? Which report is dated as having been completed first? Did you have any luck ringing IGI?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Yes Kace- the sequence of when GIA and IGI examined the diamond is critical.