Gailey!!! Need fish help!

[MichelleCarmen]

I had all intentions of buying a single guppy and Petco gave me tons of fabulous advice.

I decided to buy my fish at a different store that is "pretty," and the sales guy insisted that two Platy fish would survive in my 3-gallon tank.

After I got home, I did a web search and found out that was terrible advice. Each fish grows 2 inches long and the tank is too small. . .

Well, they were perky yesterday but were hanging out & lathergic at the bottom this morning. I checked the amonia level and it was .50. I did a 1/4 tank change and then called the pet store.

They said they'd exchange the two fish for a single guppy or smaller fish. Would you do this?

Silly as it sounds, I'm already emotionally attached to the fish. They won't survive in the small tank, will they? When I called the store, the manager said they would. Is that wrong?

Thanks.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Here's a link to the previous thread. I posted photos there!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/good-fish-for-new-hobbiest.119358/

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/14/2009 2:18:55 PM
Author:MC

Well, they were perky yesterday but were hanging out & lathergic at the bottom this morning. I checked the amonia level and it was .50. I did a 1/4 tank change and then called the pet store.

Thanks.

MC
your new tank will go through a "bio cycle" before the ammonia go back down to 0, it can take like 4-6 weeks, in the mean time don''t over feed em.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thanks DF. I ended up taking the two platies and exchanging them for a single Danio. The fish is very active. I'm going to get an oxygen stone to help simulate the stream environment.

I'm still confused by the fish store recommendations. Seems like they went more by what is hearty enough, not what is appropriate for the size of tank I have. . .they said to give her one flake every other day. Does that seem sufficient?

 

[Little Monster]

MC: feeding fish every OTHER day is absolutely sufficient... any more is typically overkill.

over-feeding is the quickest way to dirty your tank, and thus harm the quality of your water by increasing levels of nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, etc. you want to make sure you only feed whatever the fish can completely consume in 1-2 minutes... seriously! any uneaten food starts to decompose, turning into more waste. fish are like some dogs in that they will act hungry and scarf down virtually anything put in front of them until they are sick... and then eat more! don''t be fooled if the fish are swimming at the top, or seem ravenous when you feed them - they''re conning you.

it''s great that you''re keeping track of your water chemistry values -- typically any fish store will check these levels for you for free... it can help prevent a lot of hassle and damage to your fish.

one comment on the 3 gallon vs. the 20 gallon... as strange as it may sound, keeping a larger tank is MUCH easier than keeping a small tank. the water chemistry and temperature are much more delicate and prone to drastic changes since there is less water... small difference = BIG effect... you have a lot more leeway and room for error with a larger tank.

starting out with fish can feel impossible -- but can be incredibly fun too! just a few quick tips to help you along...
-never overfeed - no matter how fun it is to watch them eat!
-ALWAYS research fish before buying them (no matter how cool that new fish at the store looks, you have to know their diet, maximum size, temperament, strange quirks, etc.)... otherwise, possible disaster (common plecos that are typically sold in pet stores get up to be 3+ feet in the wild (do a google images search for them... it''s amazing!)
-buy an accurate heater & tank thermometer (put it FAR away from the heater or it won''t give an accurate reading)... make sure your tank is staying at temperature (78-80)... drops in temp are really stressful for the fish
-do regular water changes with a gravel vacuum (about $5 at PetCo)... people debate how much... maybe 1/4 - 1/3 of the tank every week.... whatever you do, don''t just add water as it evaporates (the waste & chemicals will continue to build up to toxic levels)
-if fish die in the tank, get your water checked and look for signs of disease or parasites before buying new fish... don''t want to end up with dead new fish!
-buy a heavier-duty filter than suggested... if you have a 10 gallon tank, a filter that''s rated for 15-20 gallons will help you out a lot... increase water flow, improve the biological filtration, allow you to increase your fish population, etc...

those are just a few random ones off the top of my head... keep asking questions - it''s the best way to learn with fish : ) good luck & keep us up to date with the tank!

 

[diamondgirl4382]

MC, I happened upon this thread and thought I would give some advice since I know a lot about fishkeeping, I hope that''s ok!

First, your tank is going to be harder to maintain than bigger tanks because it is so small. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but it''s true...the smaller amount of water means that ammonia and nitrates can build up really fast. Like somebody already said, your tank is going through the nitrogen cycle...you''re going to see ammonia at first, which will slowly switch to nitrates, then to nitrites. Basically each stage of the cycle is less harmful to fish than the last (hope that makes sense...ammonia is pretty hard on them, but nitrites aren''t unless they get too high.) In order to get through the cycle, it helps to do pretty frequent water changes...I would say 1/3 every other day (making sure you dechlorinate the new water each time). Test the water frequently and once you stop seeing ammonia you can slow down on the water changes a little bit. 1/3 each week should be fine.

Ok, on to the type of fish. Your small tank complicates this a lot too. Danios are pretty tough, and so it will probably survive, but it''s not the best choice for a small tank. It''s a schooling fish, so it should really be kept in a group of at least 6 (which you definitely can''t do in your tank!) Also it is such an active fish that it really needs more room to swim than your tank is giving it. Honestly, for a 3 gallon tank I would only recommend a beta, OR possibly 2 guppies. If you could upgrade to at least a 10 gallon you would have a lot more choices, and the water quality would be more stable too.

I hope that helps. I know it''s probably overwhelming but there is a lot of misinformation out there (as you probably realized after talking to the people at the pet store...) and it does make it hard to get started. But it''s a great hobby, so good luck and let us know what happens!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Excellent advises from LM and DG.

yes MC, get a bigger tank like 50 gal and up.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thanks so much everyone. Yes, I've heard the bigger tanks are easier. It was mostly our idea to treat my son to a small fish for fun. . .not spend a ton on a huge tank and now suddenly I'm regretting not going larger. So what about the Danio in the 3-gallon? Will she be okay? Can she have a tank mate of some sort once the water balances out so she feels like she's more in a school? If so, any recommendations? Would a second Danio spell disaster? lol

Also, I do have a syphen (gravel vacuum?) and was told by another sales person not to use it because it'll suck up the good bacteria. Is this accurate?

Oh, I checked both ammonia and nitrogen levels and both seem okay right now. I noticed the platies 'excreted' much more than the danio, so that problem seems a bit more under control now with the single fish.

- I did get a thermometer and heater and the thermometer broke already. It's a small one that suctions onto the side of the tank and I did have it attached away from the heater but it kept disattaching and I set it on the counter and it cracked! (Luckily nothing leaked out.)

It is funny that this was suppose to be for my son, but I've already become obsessed and can anticipate having my own tank at some point in the future.

 

[diamondgirl4382]

It''s fine to use the gravel vac, most of the bacteria lives in your filter anyway.

Danios are tough fish, so she will probably survive. It''s just not the ideal fish for that size tank...I think two would be too crowded just because of how active they are. Maybe when you get your own tank you can put her in there with a school of friends.

 

[Gailey]

Hey MC,

Sorry, I''ve only just seen your post, I''ve been working trying to catch up once the rain stopped.

All the advice others have posted is good. The comment from the fish store about not sucking up the "gunk" in the bottom of the tank is also sound.

You are doing the right things. I would add some Melafix and Pimafix to the tank in the correct dosage. I''m sorry, I should have mentioned that before. I always add those medications when I acclimatise new fish.

Your new fish may be sluggish because they are suffing for transplant shock (bit like plants). Keep up with the water changing, make sure it''s dechlorinated. Did you find out whether or not your water contains Chloramine as well as Chlorine? This is important because you cannot simply leave the tap water standing to off-gas the chlorine. Chloramine needs a chemical de-chlorinator.

Whenever I buy fish, I always ask how long they have been in the store. You don''t want a fish that is brand new to the store. You want to make sure they''ve been quarantined properly to guarantee they are healthy.

One last thing, I couldn''t tell from your pictures whether or not your tank has a filter on it. A filter is important for two reasons. Not only does it take out the bad stuff from the water, but it also aerates it. Oxygen only enters the water at the surface of agitated water. If your tank water is perfectly still there will be no exchange of gasses and the fish will use up the oxygen pretty quickly.

What sort of filter do you have? Did you buy any live plants? They are going to suck up the amonia, nitrite and nitrates and help with the cycling process.

I''m likely to be out at work tomorrow (if the weather improves), so I will only see PS when I wake up and when I get in which may be late. I''m on Mountain Standard Time. But I will do my best to check in on you.

Please think about a larger tank.

Good luck

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/14/2009 8:23:52 PM
Author: diamondgirl4382
MC, I happened upon this thread and thought I would give some advice since I know a lot about fishkeeping, I hope that''s ok!

First, your tank is going to be harder to maintain than bigger tanks because it is so small. I know that sounds counter-intuitive but it''s true...the smaller amount of water means that ammonia and nitrates can build up really fast. Like somebody already said, your tank is going through the nitrogen cycle...you''re going to see ammonia at first, which will slowly switch to nitrates, then to nitrites. Basically each stage of the cycle is less harmful to fish than the last (hope that makes sense...ammonia is pretty hard on them, but nitrites aren''t unless they get too high.) In order to get through the cycle, it helps to do pretty frequent water changes...I would say 1/3 every other day (making sure you dechlorinate the new water each time). Test the water frequently and once you stop seeing ammonia you can slow down on the water changes a little bit. 1/3 each week should be fine.

Ok, on to the type of fish. Your small tank complicates this a lot too. Danios are pretty tough, and so it will probably survive, but it''s not the best choice for a small tank. It''s a schooling fish, so it should really be kept in a group of at least 6 (which you definitely can''t do in your tank!) Also it is such an active fish that it really needs more room to swim than your tank is giving it. Honestly, for a 3 gallon tank I would only recommend a beta, OR possibly 2 guppies. If you could upgrade to at least a 10 gallon you would have a lot more choices, and the water quality would be more stable too.

I hope that helps. I know it''s probably overwhelming but there is a lot of misinformation out there (as you probably realized after talking to the people at the pet store...) and it does make it hard to get started. But it''s a great hobby, so good luck and let us know what happens!

I think it''s the other way around. First you get ammonia, seondly you get nitrite (highly toxic to fish) and lastly you get nitrates which is less toxic but you still don''t want to let it build up. Live plants will suck up nitrates, remember I suggested a bit of Hornwort in one of my earlier posts.

As to your choice of fish, I think you would be better of with a Beta if you keep the 3 gallon tank. They are perfectly content on their own, they don''t need a lot of water agitation, but they do need low nitrates and no nitrite and no ammonia.

Watch your nitrite levels like a hawk. You will see it rise, which it has to do in order for the nitrates to build up. Once you start to build up nitrate, your nitrite will drop. It''s important to see that rise and fall, because then you know you are on the home straight as far as cycling goes. DF is right, it could take several weeks, although I doubt it in a 3 gallon tank.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/14/2009 10:05:51 PM
Author: MC
Thanks so much everyone. Yes, I''ve heard the bigger tanks are easier. It was mostly our idea to treat my son to a small fish for fun. . .not spend a ton on a huge tank and now suddenly I''m regretting not going larger. So what about the Danio in the 3-gallon? Will she be okay? Can she have a tank mate of some sort once the water balances out so she feels like she''s more in a school? If so, any recommendations? Would a second Danio spell disaster? lol

Also, I do have a syphen (gravel vacuum?) and was told by another sales person not to use it because it''ll suck up the good bacteria. Is this accurate?

Oh, I checked both ammonia and nitrogen levels and both seem okay right now. I noticed the platies ''excreted'' much more than the danio, so that problem seems a bit more under control now with the single fish.

- I did get a thermometer and heater and the thermometer broke already. It''s a small one that suctions onto the side of the tank and I did have it attached away from the heater but it kept disattaching and I set it on the counter and it cracked! (Luckily nothing leaked out.)

It is funny that this was suppose to be for my son, but I''ve already become obsessed and can anticipate having my own tank at some point in the future.

Yep, it''s a slippery slope. I started off by inheriting a colleague''s little square cube tank at work with 1 guppy. I decided he must need a mate, so I bought him a wife, which he promtly ate (not normal behaviour in guppies). He was henceforth known as killer in the office. I''ve now leveled off with 3 tanks (135 gallons total), but at one time I had 13 tanks on the go.

I dread to think how much I''ve spent - enough to have a honking great big diamond on one of my fingers that''s for sure!

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/14/2009 10:32:44 PM
Author: diamondgirl4382
It''s fine to use the gravel vac, most of the bacteria lives in your filter anyway.

Danios are tough fish, so she will probably survive. It''s just not the ideal fish for that size tank...I think two would be too crowded just because of how active they are. Maybe when you get your own tank you can put her in there with a school of friends.

the beneficial bacteria will attach themselves to any hard surface including gravel. You don''t need to vaccum it yet. If you plant live plants in the gravel, you may not need to vaccum it at all - I never do.

 

[omieluv]

Hi MC. I could not tell from the photo, but does your tank have a filter? If so, what type (under gravel or hang on the back)?

I have been keeping fish for quite a while, so I figure I would throw in my 2 cents. I avoid live bearers (guppies, platy fish, etc) because they typically need an element of salt to keep them healthy (not rock salt, but salt that would be added to marine aquariums, which is purchased at the pet store). They are not quite "brackish" but not completely fresh either. Additionally, I just do not find them interesting.

As others have mentioned, 3-gallon aquariums are quite limiting in terms of what will thrive. A single male Betta would probably be fine in your tank. You can also consider 1 paradise fish (cousin to the Betta). Zebra danios are schooling fish and really should be in a shoal of at least 3, which would be tight in your tank. They are quite hardy though and a good starter fish.

Also, fish do not need live plants to thrive in their environment. There are so many synthetic plants on the market that provide nice coverage for fish, so do not feel like you need to complicate things with live plants. Just read about your fish and look at pictures of its natural habitat and do your best to simulate it using what you have at your disposal. If you go with a Betta or paradise fish, try adding a small cave or a synthetic (silk or plastic) sword plant, as they like to lounge quite a bit. While it is true that plants can help your water chemistry, they are just not worth the hastle, IMHO.

Past Bettas I have had would sleep in plants and caves I provided and they all lived 3-4 years (typical age for a betta). These fish are easy to keep and I have not found it necessary to cycle a small tank prior to adding them (just dump the fish in with the water it comes with). Normally, this would be a big no-no, but I have had several bettas and not had trouble with this method. Do not over feed, a pinch will do it once per day. Keep the tank out of direct sun to control algae (over feeding will also stimulate algae) and change about 25% of the water every other week or so. Also, it is good to add a product called stress coat after adding new fish. Stress coat will repair the natural slime barrier on the fish, which they need to protect themselves from infections and the environment. Melafix/pimafix are great medications, but are not necessary when adding new fish. Melafix is great if your fish rips a fin or injures itself on a rock or something (my bf's cichlids would beat the crud out of each other and needed this), while Pimafix is good for curing bacterial infections (bacterial infections typically will not show outward signs of issues).

Fish have upper and lower limits to what they can tolerate in terms of temperature and what really kills them is the shock of going from one temp to another (this is why you float the bag for 15 minutes before adding a fish to the tank). If you need a heater, please, please, keep an eye on the thermometer. I had a heater disaster not too long ago and I lost several fish I had for 5-6 years...it was really sad.

One other thing. The danio you have is actually starting the "cycle" of your tank. Keep him in there for about a month and you should be set. In order for beneficial bacteria to form, it needs fish waste to provide its food. When you have a fully cycled tank, you have a balance between fish waste and beneficial bacteria in the aquarium. This is where it gets sticky. Some people believe it is ok to start adding loads of fish after their tank is cycled and then wonder why they all die. This is because there is not enough beneficial bacteria to keep up with the fish waste. This is where your test kits come into play. If your levels are correct, then you can add fish. If not, then your tank is not ready for fish.

ETA: when it comes to fish keeping, bigger tanks are better! However, keep in mind that tanks filled with water and gravel + the stand can be quite heavy, so be sure you consider where the tank is going to go before you buy it. You also want to make sure the surface is level.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 7/14/2009 10:32:44 PM
Author: diamondgirl4382
It''s fine to use the gravel vac, most of the bacteria lives in your filter anyway.

Not true. While beneficial bacteria does live in the filter (it lives where it can attach itself), most of it will actually be in the gravel bed, as the gavel bed is larger than the filter, at least in larger tanks (assuming we are speaking of a hang on the back filter). Even more so if you have an under gravel filter (UGF). This is why it is a good idea to vac. sections of a larger tank and not the entire gravel bed at once.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/15/2009 12:39:58 AM
Author: Gailey

Yep, it''s a slippery slope. I started off by inheriting a colleague''s little square cube tank at work with 1 guppy. I decided he must need a mate, so I bought him a wife, which he promtly ate (not normal behaviour in guppies). He was henceforth known as killer in the office. I''ve now leveled off with 3 tanks (135 gallons total), but at one time I had 13 tanks on the go.

I dread to think how much I''ve spent - enough to have a honking great big diamond on one of my fingers that''s for sure!

tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60''s,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70''s and breeded Discus in the late 70''s-80''s, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24" Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:27:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60's,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70's and breeded Discus in the late 70's-80's, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24' Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

Sweet! I love discus, but my tank is not big enough (35 gal hex). My BF is thinking of switching from his SA cichlids and he has a 75 gal tank...hmmm....

Do you have pictures of your koi pond? It sounds lovely. I have also heard your koi are quite lovely, if you have pictures of them, please post!!

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:27:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/15/2009 12:39:58 AM
Author: Gailey


Yep, it''s a slippery slope. I started off by inheriting a colleague''s little square cube tank at work with 1 guppy. I decided he must need a mate, so I bought him a wife, which he promtly ate (not normal behaviour in guppies). He was henceforth known as killer in the office. I''ve now leveled off with 3 tanks (135 gallons total), but at one time I had 13 tanks on the go.

I dread to think how much I''ve spent - enough to have a honking great big diamond on one of my fingers that''s for sure!

tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60''s,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70''s and breeded Discus in the late 70''s-80''s, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24'' Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

Never had discus, always wanted some. I just came to realise that they would need too much care. Did you feed yours chopped liver? When I retire I will put them on the list along with a C02 system for all my beloved plants.

I have Synodontis Petricolas, which I adore amongst others.

Arowana is a fairly tradional (expensive) fish for Asian families I believe. Aren''t they supposed to bring good health and fortune to the house or something like that? Oh, I also have a 33 million gallon lake outside. No koi, just trout and heron!

The asian fish keeper I aspire to be like is Takashi Amano. The man is a master, I have all of his books. One day ....

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:33:06 AM
Author: omieluv

Date: 7/15/2009 1:27:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60''s,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70''s and breeded Discus in the late 70''s-80''s, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24'' Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

Sweet! I love discus, but my tank is not big enough (35 gal hex). My BF is thinking of switching from his SA cichlids and he has a 75 gal tank...hmmm....

Do you have pictures of your koi pond? It sounds lovely. I have also heard your koi are quite lovely, if you have pictures of them, please post!!

when i was breeding Discus i just put the mated pairs in 20 gal tanks. a 20 gal tank is all they need for spawning.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:12:40 AM
Author: omieluv
Hi MC. I could not tell from the photo, but does your tank have a filter? If so, what type (under gravel or hang on the back)?

I have been keeping fish for quite a while, so I figure I would throw in my 2 cents. I avoid live bearers (guppies, platy fish, etc) because they typically need an element of salt to keep them healthy (not rock salt, but salt that would be added to marine aquariums, which is purchased at the pet store). They are not quite ''brackish'' but not completely fresh either. Additionally, I just do not find them interesting.

As others have mentioned, 3-gallon aquariums are quite limiting in terms of what will thrive. A single male Betta would probably be fine in your tank. You can also consider 1 paradise fish (cousin to the Betta). Zebra danios are schooling fish and really should be in a shoal of at least 3, which would be tight in your tank. They are quite hardy though and a good starter fish.

Also, fish do not need live plants to thrive in their environment. There are so many synthetic plants on the market that provide nice coverage for fish, so do not feel like you need to complicate things with live plants. Just read about your fish and look at pictures of its natural habitat and do your best to simulate it using what you have at your disposal. If you go with a Betta or paradise fish, try adding a small cave or a synthetic (silk or plastic) sword plant, as they like to lounge quite a bit. While it is true that plants can help your water chemistry, they are just not worth the hastle, IMHO.

Past Bettas I have had would sleep in plants and caves I provided and they all lived 3-4 years (typical age for a betta). These fish are easy to keep and I have not found it necessary to cycle a small tank prior to adding them (just dump the fish in with the water it comes with). Normally, this would be a big no-no, but I have had several bettas and not had trouble with this method. Do not over feed, a pinch will do it once per day. Keep the tank out of direct sun to control algae (over feeding will also stimulate algae) and change about 25% of the water every other week or so. Also, it is good to add a product called stress coat after adding new fish. Stress coat will repair the natural slime barrier on the fish, which they need to protect themselves from infections and the environment. Melafix/pimafix are great medications, but are not necessary when adding new fish. Melafix is great if your fish rips a fin or injures itself on a rock or something (my bf''s cichlids would beat the crud out of each other and needed this), while Pimafix is good for curing bacterial infections (bacterial infections typically will not show outward signs of issues).

Fish have upper and lower limits to what they can tolerate in terms of temperature and what really kills them is the shock of going from one temp to another (this is why you float the bag for 15 minutes before adding a fish to the tank). If you need a heater, please, please, keep an eye on the thermometer. I had a heater disaster not too long ago and I lost several fish I had for 5-6 years...it was really sad.

One other thing. The danio you have is actually starting the ''cycle'' of your tank. Keep him in there for about a month and you should be set. In order for beneficial bacteria to form, it needs fish waste to provide its food. When you have a fully cycled tank, you have a balance between fish waste and beneficial bacteria in the aquarium. This is where it gets sticky. Some people believe it is ok to start adding loads of fish after their tank is cycled and then wonder why they all die. This is because there is not enough beneficial bacteria to keep up with the fish waste. This is where your test kits come into play. If your levels are correct, then you can add fish. If not, then your tank is not ready for fish.

ETA: when it comes to fish keeping, bigger tanks are better! However, keep in mind that tanks filled with water and gravel + the stand can be quite heavy, so be sure you consider where the tank is going to go before you buy it. You also want to make sure the surface is level.

I don''t want to get into a long drawn out debate on the value of plants in a freshwater tank, and I am not advocating MC do anything more than add a bit of floating hornwort. It will help to oxygenate the water and sop up the nitrates. That''s all. With a 3 gallon tank, she needs all the help she can get with water quality.

Fish don''t need plants to thrive, but tanks can thrive with plants in them and a healthy tank means healthy fish. I''m not talking about cichlids here, I know they live in very plant barren lakes in nature.

The closest you can come to replicating conditions any particular breed of fish enjoy in nature, the happier and healthier they will be.

Just saying ....

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:51:19 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/15/2009 1:33:06 AM
Author: omieluv

Date: 7/15/2009 1:27:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60''s,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70''s and breeded Discus in the late 70''s-80''s, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24'' Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

Sweet! I love discus, but my tank is not big enough (35 gal hex). My BF is thinking of switching from his SA cichlids and he has a 75 gal tank...hmmm....

Do you have pictures of your koi pond? It sounds lovely. I have also heard your koi are quite lovely, if you have pictures of them, please post!!

when i was breeding Discus i just put the mated pairs in 20 gal tanks. a 20 gal tank is all they need for spawning.

Great pond DF. Any close-ups of the koi? The most expensive one I ever saw was £4,500. Pale pink as I recall. It was in a garden centre in the UK many years ago.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i only have 8 koi in my pond now. i gave some to my brother last month. the deep end is 8.5 ft deep.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/15/2009 2:03:29 AM
Author: Gailey

Date: 7/15/2009 1:51:19 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/15/2009 1:33:06 AM
Author: omieluv

Date: 7/15/2009 1:27:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60''s,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70''s and breeded Discus in the late 70''s-80''s, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24'' Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

Sweet! I love discus, but my tank is not big enough (35 gal hex). My BF is thinking of switching from his SA cichlids and he has a 75 gal tank...hmmm....

Do you have pictures of your koi pond? It sounds lovely. I have also heard your koi are quite lovely, if you have pictures of them, please post!!

when i was breeding Discus i just put the mated pairs in 20 gal tanks. a 20 gal tank is all they need for spawning.

Great pond DF. Any close-ups of the koi? The most expensive one I ever saw was £4,500. Pale pink as I recall. It was in a garden centre in the UK many years ago.

Gailey
my wife almost fell into pond when the dealer said.. $60,000 for the bottom koi in this pic. the top one was a little cheaper at $7k or $8K,forgot.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 7/15/2009 2:24:54 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/15/2009 2:03:29 AM
Author: Gailey

Date: 7/15/2009 1:51:19 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/15/2009 1:33:06 AM
Author: omieluv

Date: 7/15/2009 1:27:35 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
tell me about it...

i had Discus in the late 60''s,then a small saltwater aquarium in the mid 70''s and breeded Discus in the late 70''s-80''s, then a 240 gal with saltwater tropical fishes and now i have a 180 gal with a 24'' Arowana,plus a 10,000 gal koi pond in the backyard.

Sweet! I love discus, but my tank is not big enough (35 gal hex). My BF is thinking of switching from his SA cichlids and he has a 75 gal tank...hmmm....

Do you have pictures of your koi pond? It sounds lovely. I have also heard your koi are quite lovely, if you have pictures of them, please post!!

when i was breeding Discus i just put the mated pairs in 20 gal tanks. a 20 gal tank is all they need for spawning.

Great pond DF. Any close-ups of the koi? The most expensive one I ever saw was £4,500. Pale pink as I recall. It was in a garden centre in the UK many years ago.

Gailey
my wife almost fell into pond when the dealer said.. $60,000 for the bottom koi in this pic. the top one was a little cheaper at $7k or $8K,forgot.

DF, you paid $60K for a fish? Bet he''s nice with chips!!

Good God, no wonder Mrs DF nearly fell into the pond. Good job your not married to me, I''d have pushed you into the damn pond. How many cts will $60k buy.

Tell me that the man in the shop told you that your fish was worth $60k, not that that''s what you paid out.

I don''t think race horses cost that much!

He is pretty though!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

The tank has a bio-wheel three-stage filter. . .it hangs down into the tank. . .

here''s the model:

http://www.petco.com/product/4598/Marineland-Eclipse-System-Three.aspx

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 7/15/2009 1:12:40 AM
Author: omieluv
Hi MC. I could not tell from the photo, but does your tank have a filter? If so, what type (under gravel or hang on the back)?

I have been keeping fish for quite a while, so I figure I would throw in my 2 cents. I avoid live bearers (guppies, platy fish, etc) because they typically need an element of salt to keep them healthy (not rock salt, but salt that would be added to marine aquariums, which is purchased at the pet store). They are not quite ''brackish'' but not completely fresh either. Additionally, I just do not find them interesting.

As others have mentioned, 3-gallon aquariums are quite limiting in terms of what will thrive. A single male Betta would probably be fine in your tank. You can also consider 1 paradise fish (cousin to the Betta). Zebra danios are schooling fish and really should be in a shoal of at least 3, which would be tight in your tank. They are quite hardy though and a good starter fish.

Also, fish do not need live plants to thrive in their environment. There are so many synthetic plants on the market that provide nice coverage for fish, so do not feel like you need to complicate things with live plants. Just read about your fish and look at pictures of its natural habitat and do your best to simulate it using what you have at your disposal. If you go with a Betta or paradise fish, try adding a small cave or a synthetic (silk or plastic) sword plant, as they like to lounge quite a bit. While it is true that plants can help your water chemistry, they are just not worth the hastle, IMHO.

Past Bettas I have had would sleep in plants and caves I provided and they all lived 3-4 years (typical age for a betta). These fish are easy to keep and I have not found it necessary to cycle a small tank prior to adding them (just dump the fish in with the water it comes with). Normally, this would be a big no-no, but I have had several bettas and not had trouble with this method. Do not over feed, a pinch will do it once per day. Keep the tank out of direct sun to control algae (over feeding will also stimulate algae) and change about 25% of the water every other week or so. Also, it is good to add a product called stress coat after adding new fish. Stress coat will repair the natural slime barrier on the fish, which they need to protect themselves from infections and the environment. Melafix/pimafix are great medications, but are not necessary when adding new fish. Melafix is great if your fish rips a fin or injures itself on a rock or something (my bf''s cichlids would beat the crud out of each other and needed this), while Pimafix is good for curing bacterial infections (bacterial infections typically will not show outward signs of issues).

Fish have upper and lower limits to what they can tolerate in terms of temperature and what really kills them is the shock of going from one temp to another (this is why you float the bag for 15 minutes before adding a fish to the tank). If you need a heater, please, please, keep an eye on the thermometer. I had a heater disaster not too long ago and I lost several fish I had for 5-6 years...it was really sad.

One other thing. The danio you have is actually starting the ''cycle'' of your tank. Keep him in there for about a month and you should be set. In order for beneficial bacteria to form, it needs fish waste to provide its food. When you have a fully cycled tank, you have a balance between fish waste and beneficial bacteria in the aquarium. This is where it gets sticky. Some people believe it is ok to start adding loads of fish after their tank is cycled and then wonder why they all die. This is because there is not enough beneficial bacteria to keep up with the fish waste. This is where your test kits come into play. If your levels are correct, then you can add fish. If not, then your tank is not ready for fish.

ETA: when it comes to fish keeping, bigger tanks are better! However, keep in mind that tanks filled with water and gravel + the stand can be quite heavy, so be sure you consider where the tank is going to go before you buy it. You also want to make sure the surface is level.

Yes, the weight of the tank is a huge deal . . .I had mentioned a month or so back that we move quite often and if we do so again, what are we to do with a huge tank? Even though I''d love one, it may simply not be practical at my stage in life.

I''ll look into the hornwort eventually. One small plant may be okay, but yes, I do not want to complicate with anything other than the fish.

Yesterday, for about an hour I sat and watched the Danio swim. It had looked earlier like she had fin damage, but upon watching her, I am sure now that her right fin has some sort of damage to it.

So, I give her Melafix and watch to see if n other symptoms of illness begin.

**** As you said, I need a larger tank for the Danio to thrive, however, if I just keep her in the 3-gallon tank, she will have some sort of life, and live for a while, right? If there isn''t possible for me to get a larger tank within, say five years, would it be better if I attempt to exchange her for a beta? This is what I need to find out!

Just quickly before I run off to wake up my kids - the Danio is doing very nicely this morning. She''s swimming around and as active as yesterday! I haven''t checked the water levels yet.

Thanks again everyone for all your help. Sorry I''m not responding to everything, but I''m reading closely and taking notes.

 

[Little Monster]

MC...

If you see fin damage on your Danio -- is it split fins? If so, it could be from being netted recently, poor water quality, etc. A really good product that can help with such things is Stress Coat (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals I think). It helps heal split fins & other scale damage, neutralizes the chlorine/chloramines in your tap water, and helps replace their natural slime coating. The slime coat helps keep in their natural electrolytes and prevents disease & parasites. You can add it when you do water changes.

About live plants: I absolutely love them & feel they really do help keep the tank healthier (remove nitrates/nitrites/ammonia), give the fish natural cover, etc. Then again, I just think they're beautiful. They can be a little extra work if you have a ton of them (removing dead leaves, replanting them after water changes, checking CO2 & iron levels, etc.) But most of the time, if you go with something simple like hornwort, or an Amazon Sword, you can just dump it in there & pretty much leave it alone with no problem.

I'm laughing at your comment about moving frequently. I just moved into our new house after moving my 75 gallon tank to EIGHT apartments in SEVEN years. No Joke. Granted, it was a serious pain in the neck, but you learn pretty quickly how to minimize the stress (for you AND the fish). If you want fish moving tips... just ask. I could write a book

So... my point is... if you love fish, the hassle is worth it... your fish are your pets & you figure out ways to make it work. In terms of weight? You have to remove all the water & gravel to make it practical (transport in 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot)... and even a 75 gallon tank & stand are completely movable with 2 adults. No problem.

Anyway! About your Danio -- will it be okay alone in your 3 gallon? Probably, but it's a matter of what's the best idea. A few people have suggested a single male (or female) Betta fish. They are much more suited to both the size of your tank & being alone. Danios truly are schooling fish & appreciate being in groups of 5+ (the more the better). Without friends they'll be more stressed, possibly live shorter lives? It's just not natural for them to be alone, unlike a Betta where it's totally normal.

Just make sure you get some Betta pellets if you switch fish... flake food isn't really intended for them. Again, you'd only want to feed every other day, a few pellets at time...

hope everything is going well!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/15/2009 9:41:50 AM
Author: Gailey

Date: 7/15/2009 2:24:54 AM
Gailey
my wife almost fell into pond when the dealer said.. $60,000 for the bottom koi in this pic. the top one was a little cheaper at $7k or $8K,forgot.

DF, you paid $60K for a fish? Bet he''s nice with chips!!

Good God, no wonder Mrs DF nearly fell into the pond. Good job your not married to me, I''d have pushed you into the damn pond. How many cts will $60k buy.

Tell me that the man in the shop told you that your fish was worth $60k, not that that''s what you paid out.

I don''t think race horses cost that much!

He is pretty though!

Gailey
i ain''t that crazy... if i had $60k in spear change then i would definitely buy a diamond and a nice watch.

 

[diamondgirl4382]

MC--the biowheel is a good filter. That''s what I have on my 33 gallon. Beneficial bacteria grows on the wheel part so just keep an eye on it to make sure it is always turning (if it stops and the bacteria dries out, it will die and your tank will be thrown back into a cycle!)

I second what some people have said about a betta being your best choice. While the danio will probably live, the betta is much more suited to the tank. Since danios are so tough and it will most likely make it through the cycling process, I would check and see if you could trade him in after the water chemistry has leveled out.

The frayed fin MIGHT be because of the ammonia in the water. Hopefully the Melafix will help. Frequent water changes should help too (if the ammonia is the reason for the damage).

I''m going to respectfully disagree with those who recommended not using the gravel vac for water changes. Fish poo tends to accumulate in the gravel (along with any excess food you might have, although it sounds like you aren''t overfeeding so that''s good) and that can really spike the ammonia levels, especially in a small tank. Like I said before, a lot of beneficial bacteria lives on your filter--that''s the purpose of the biowheel. While some does live in the gravel, there is no way you are going to remove ALL of the beneficial bacteria by using a gravel vac. IMHO, with a small tank and no live plants you should definitely use the gravel vac at least occasionally, even during the cycle.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 7/15/2009 11:00:10 AM
Author: MC
The tank has a bio-wheel three-stage filter. . .it hangs down into the tank. . .

here''s the model:

http://www.petco.com/product/4598/Marineland-Eclipse-System-Three.aspx

Ah, you have an Eclipse system. I have a 5 gal version of what you have and they are nice, as everything is so compact in the hood. I think this is a great setup for a betta, which is what I have kept mine in the past.