Funny question, especially for those who sell diamonds

[Reisen]

First, let me say this is my second post, and this forum looks great. I''m just starting this whole process, but have done a lot of reading.

I have a bit of a peculiar situation. I''m looking at rings, and, like everyone else, trying to find the best deal possible. It looks like that may well be done online. However...

My family has a good family friend (went to school with my mother and aunt) who is extremely wealthy. I''m talking net worth in the high hundreds of millions. Will likely be a billionaire within the next few years, as he is a real estate developer (commercial).

A year ago, he decided that he really liiked my girlfriend and wants us to get married. He pulled me aside and asked why I was waiting. I explained that I was planning on it, but was saving for a ring.

He offered to let me choose any ring I wanted, and he would pay for it as a gift to me. His wife wears the largest ring I''ve ever seen, and he indicated he is well connected in the jewelry industry.

For a variety of reasons, not the least of which is personal pride, I don''t want to let someone else, no matter how rich, buy the ring for me. However, is it worth going through this guy if I pay him?

So my question is, would it be realistic for a jeweler to sell a diamond/ring to a VIP/important client at cost? If you had someone who had spent millions on jewelry and they asked to buy a $10k ring at the cheapest price possible, what might that be?

 

[Kaleigh]

Basically you would be using his connections to get a great deal on the ring. I see nothing wrong with that at all as you not he would be paying for it.

 

[Reisen]

Right. The question would be, can/does this happen? I imagine on some items, probably services (legal advice, tax advise), this would work really well. On others (maybe a house or something), you only have so much room to accomodate without losing money. I suspect he paid close to or as much for his S500 Mercedes as everyone else. What about diamonds? The only thing that comes to mind is Donald Trump was supposedly given his engagement ring from a jeweler he does business with, but I suspect that was more about publicity than anything else.

 

[Hest88]

I suspect that if he''s a good customer they might be willing to cut you a deal as a personal favor to him--especially if you''ll only be buying a modest ring that won''t really cut into their profits.

The only issue I''d have is that if you go this route and find you''re not getting such a great deal, you will have to go through it anyway or risk an awkward situation with a family friend.

 

[DiamondExpert]

Pardon my paranoia, but what will you do when he makes you another "offer you can''t refuse"! Your obligation would be HUGE and perhaps disturbing

!

Good luck!

 

[phoenixgirl]

He offered to let me choose any ring I wanted, and he would pay for it as a gift to me.

Yes, this would make me uncomfortable too, but I think it was meant in kindness. Your friend doesn''t want you to miss out on marriage just because you can''t afford a ring. But perhaps this is more of the issue . . . what kind of money are you waiting to save up? Would your girlfriend be happy with a "starter ring" with a small diamond or cubic zirconia with the intent of upgrading when finances allow?

You said he offered to do this a year ago, and that at that point people were already wondering why you weren''t married/engaged yet. And now another year has passed. Are you really just waiting because of the ring? If so, it is to make a gesture of being able to provide for your girlfriend? Then accepting the offer doesn''t make sense. Or is it to have the bling? Then maybe it''s too good to pass up. But my instinct is that if you two were straining at the bit to be married, then the ring wouldn''t matter.

I heard a sermon once where the pastor told about saving up for his wife''s (1/5ct.) engagement ring. He was pooooor, so he ate raman noodles and popcorn for two months to save for it. When he gave it to her, she cried with joy knowing what a sacrifice it was for him to save that $. Now I''m not saying I would want a 1/5ct. engagement ring, but you get the idea. In my opinion the gesture from you is what is important, so it would be kind of weird for it be a gesture from you via his checkbook. I also believe that getting married should be separate from your ability to buy a nice diamond unless the reason you can''t buy one is financial irresponsibility or being too young.

I realize your question was just about the kind of deal your Daddy Warbucks could get, but I just couldn''t help but think there must be more to your story. Just my two cents of course . . .

 

[WinkHPD]

At the price we sell diamonds for on the net I am not thinking there is a whole lot of room left. I have seen 10k diamonds go for less than a three hundred dollar markup. As with anything else, there is cost, and then there is COST. He may be getting a great deal, or not. He may be paying less than he would on the net, or NOT. (I am guessing NOT, but there is no way for us to know that.)

It presents a whole interesting can of worms, and potential. If he really likes you, maybe you need to learn the commercial real estate business and go to work for him, or find some other way to help him in a long term way so that you can develope a relationship as equals. There are so many wonderful potentials here that there may be little to the problem of finding a diamond and much more in the interesting turn this could bring to your table of life.

Wink

 

[Reisen]

Neat responses from what seems like a neat group. Since they are each so different, and I''m stuck working late at work, I''ll reply to each individually...

 

[Reisen]

Date: 4/6/2005 6

1:57 PM
Author: Hest88
I suspect that if he''s a good customer they might be willing to cut you a deal as a personal favor to him--especially if you''ll only be buying a modest ring that won''t really cut into their profits.

The only issue I''d have is that if you go this route and find you''re not getting such a great deal, you will have to go through it anyway or risk an awkward situation with a family friend.

Ooh, weird quoting system here (you hit reply first, then quote)!

I guess my hope is sort of that a jeweler might do something as a personal favor to him, and I get the ring cheaper than even online. Seems like everyone could win. I pay a lower price, but still have the pride of knowing I bought the ring/diamond myself, my family friend gets to feel like he did a good deed, and the jeweler scored points with someone he''s probably made a lot of money off of.

Your second point is very valid. I wouldn''t want to hurt anyone''s feelings, especially if what my family friend thought was such a great deal turned out not to be... Very good point, as that would put me in a pickle. I''m thinking if I go this route, I may just say "here''s what I can get such and such diamond/ring for, can your jeweler beat that?"

 

[Reisen]

Date: 4/6/2005 6:25:39 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
Pardon my paranoia, but what will you do when he makes you another ''offer you can''t refuse''! Your obligation would be HUGE and perhaps disturbing

!

Good luck!

The obligation would definitely be huge if he were paying for the ring, which I have no doubt he would happily do. However, I like to think that if he just used his connections to negotiate a great price, it wouldn''t put me in a situation of "owing" him a big favor.

 

[Reisen]

Date: 4/6/2005 6:52:47 PM
Author: phoenixgirl

He offered to let me choose any ring I wanted, and he would pay for it as a gift to me.

Yes, this would make me uncomfortable too, but I think it was meant in kindness. Your friend doesn''t want you to miss out on marriage just because you can''t afford a ring. But perhaps this is more of the issue . . . what kind of money are you waiting to save up? Would your girlfriend be happy with a ''starter ring'' with a small diamond or cubic zirconia with the intent of upgrading when finances allow?

You said he offered to do this a year ago, and that at that point people were already wondering why you weren''t married/engaged yet. And now another year has passed. Are you really just waiting because of the ring? If so, it is to make a gesture of being able to provide for your girlfriend? Then accepting the offer doesn''t make sense. Or is it to have the bling? Then maybe it''s too good to pass up. But my instinct is that if you two were straining at the bit to be married, then the ring wouldn''t matter.

I heard a sermon once where the pastor told about saving up for his wife''s (1/5ct.) engagement ring. He was pooooor, so he ate raman noodles and popcorn for two months to save for it. When he gave it to her, she cried with joy knowing what a sacrifice it was for him to save that $. Now I''m not saying I would want a 1/5ct. engagement ring, but you get the idea. In my opinion the gesture from you is what is important, so it would be kind of weird for it be a gesture from you via his checkbook. I also believe that getting married should be separate from your ability to buy a nice diamond unless the reason you can''t buy one is financial irresponsibility or being too young.

I realize your question was just about the kind of deal your Daddy Warbucks could get, but I just couldn''t help but think there must be more to your story. Just my two cents of course . . .

Hmm, where to start? I suspect the friend did it for the same reason I watched him put his credit card down for a $7000 restaurant bill, because he can. I suppose rich people probably work on a somewhat different value system in terms of how very small amounts of money (to them) can make a big difference to other people. I''d like to be in a position like that one day! Think of all the good you could do with that much money!

As for the more to the story, you are correct, there''s probably always more. I''m young (just turned 25), and always thought I''d be older when I was married. I suppose much of that is my dad''s fault, who used to tell a great story about dating my mother and their engagement. Evidently, he had a bet with 4 of his frat brothers in college that they would all put in $1000 (a lot of money in the 60''s!), and whoever waited until they were 30 to get married would get the pot. If more than one waited, they would split it. The idea was that they would spend their twenties dating lots of women, partying, etc.

Anyway, each of the other guys got married in the 8 years from when they graduated until they each turned 30. My dad turned 30 May 31st, and got married June 18th...

I digress. You were pretty insightful with the "provide" and "bling" angles. I''m honest enough to admit it''s a little of both. On the one hand, money and success are very important goals for me (as are happiness, a successful marraige, and spending time with my future kids, but that''s a whole new discussion). I went to a top 10 University, and have pretty high goals in terms of my career. It''s super important that I provide as good a "nest" as I can for my wife and family. I''d love for my wife to be able to raise a family without having to work.

On the other hand, I have to know my weaknesses enough to admit the "bling" factor. While I''m honestly not frivolous with my money (I spend little on designer clothes, shopping, etc.), when I want something bad enough, I tend to go all out. I love cars. I drive a new BMW. I love watching sports. I own a 50 inch LCD HDTV. I love to travel. We spent 3 weeks in Hong Kong, Tokyo, Singapore, and New Zealand last year, and are going to Iceland, Germany, Switzerland, and Italy next month.

All that said, I''m a reasonable guy, and my girlfriend is equally reasonable. I''m concious of costs, and extremely aware of the debate over diamonds, cartels (I''m an econ major), and the incredible prices we pay for a small mineral. My girlfriend has indicated she would be fine with a smallish ring. However, I love her and want to make her feel like I would if she bought me a new M3 for my birthday! It seems like for women, this is a diamond.

I bought her diamond studs a year ago for Christmas, and hid them inside a digital camera box. Even though she desperately wanted a digital camera for Christmas, when she opened the box to find diamond earrings instead, she started crying with happiness. Just last week, she thought she lost them and absolutely flipped out. She owns more expensive pieces of jewelry, but those are by far her favorite.

So I want to get her something really nice for an engagement ring. According to the two-months salary thing, that would be about $10,000. I''m hoping to get between a 1 and 1.5 carat stone set in platinum with a couple of very small baguette sidestones (she has petite fingers, I think she''s either a dress size zero or a 2). Now comes finding the perfect stone, and deciding what I want in terms of color, clarity, and cut (do I want H&A?).

 

[valeria101]

So... if this guy likes spreading cash around for the sake of it, why not help ?

You are the only person who knows if there might be strings attached to the gift. I have never seen such spending behavior as you describe this guy practices, for what this counts. If it is a sincere gift, why not. Would you not spend lottery money on that ring ? Would those be not hard-earned enough ?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Beware the controlling person. They often seek to become involved in your life by putting you in a position of gratitude for their money or connections.

If this is not your friend's motivation, consciously or subconsciously, forgive me for suggesting it, but 99 times out of a 100 when someone offers a "gift" along the lines mentioned they are exercising a subtle form of control over you, which often won't manifest fully until sometime in the future, usually in an unpleasant manner.

Just the fact that he "decided he really liked your girlfriend...wants you to get married...and pulled you aside and asked why you were waiting" is disturbing. It reeks of the classic modus operandi of a controlling person who subtly transgresses other people's boundaries in the guise of "helpfulness". This is often a subconscious process which the controlling person is not even aware they are doing.

I would stay as far away from this person's "help" as possible, and purchase your diamond when you want, how you want.

 

[lostdog]

If you let him buy the ring for you, it will backfire sooner or later. Though it''s very generous and sometimes people with too much money are just that way with it. I think you get this part.

Not letting him help you in some way might instead just backfire now.

What about an approach where you (on your own) price, say, a WF ACA, ring of your choice, and get all the specifics? Then you sit down and say to him, I was looking and this seems to be a very good deal, is there any reason I shouldn''t do it?

Either his source can do better on quality (not likely) or on price (but not quality), or else his source can''t. He should be smart enough to realize that when he sees the details. Just go into the stuff about idealscope and H&A and so on that distinguish super-ideal diamonds from average or above average or even plain AGS0. If they show you something, make a comparison as to the quality of the cut and see how it compares. Price may not even become the issue.

Likely he has a source that he "thinks" is doing him favors, but who knows if they are? Selling to a billionaire on low margin doesn''t make any extra money for the seller. And it sounds likely that it''s more a situation where he wants to feel he is getting something special and the retailer makes sure that message comes across. Smart retailer if so. I have seen big companies, too, that seem to be convinced that every deal they get on a purchase is because they are a huge company. They like to believe it. Or at least they like to believe it more often than it is true.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/7/2005 12:49:30 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Beware the controlling person. They often seek to become involved in your life by putting you in a position of gratitude for their money or connections.

If this is not your friend''s motivation, consciously or subconsciously, forgive me for suggesting it, but 99 times out of a 100 when someone offers a ''gift'' along the lines mentioned they are exercising a subtle form of control over you, which often won''t manifest fully until sometime in the future, usually in an unpleasant manner.

Just the fact that he ''decided he really liked your girlfriend...wants you to get married...and pulled you aside and asked why you were waiting'' is disturbing. It reeks of the classic modus operandi of a controlling person who subtly transgresses other people''s boundaries in the guise of ''helpfulness''. This is often a subconscious process which the controlling person is not even aware they are doing.

I would stay as far away from this person''s ''help'' as possible, and purchase your diamond when you want, how you want.

Like when i offer a bottole of wine to Riich, it means that he becomes a slave to both alcohol and to me

forever

.

In fact Rosein, consider this - Diamonds are Forever - for

or for

 

[fire&ice]

Weird situation. I''m inclined to agree w/ Rich & the control issue. However, if the guy thinks he can get you a good deal maybe go to the jeweler and see what''s offered - IN A VERY LOOSEY GOOSEY fashion. Say you have already been shopping and have your eye on a couple of things. Don''t elaborate. Make yourself seem like you are super picky.

I think you have already come to this conclusion - but under no circumstance let him buy you a ring.

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 4/7/2005 12:49:30 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Beware the controlling person. They often seek to become involved in your life by putting you in a position of gratitude for their money or connections.

If this is not your friend''s motivation, consciously or subconsciously, forgive me for suggesting it, but 99 times out of a 100 when someone offers a ''gift'' along the lines mentioned they are exercising a subtle form of control over you, which often won''t manifest fully until sometime in the future, usually in an unpleasant manner.

It reeks of the classic modus operandi of a controlling person who subtly transgresses other people''s boundaries in the guise of ''helpfulness''. This is often a subconscious process which the controlling person is not even aware they are doing.

I would stay as far away from this person''s ''help'' as possible, and purchase your diamond when you want, how you want.

HI:

Sounds like my mother-in-law--sans the diamond.

Suffice it to say that there is no such thing as a "free lunch".

cheers--Sharon

 

[denverappraiser]

Reisen,

I have actually made offers like this to members of my church and have expected nothing in return. It has never been accepted. It’s a touchy issue. I have made such offers because I believe in the value of marriage and I don’t want the cost of a ring to be seen as an impediment to it. My offers have been a bit more modest in selection but I’m not what you would describe as especially wealthy (Contrary to popular belief, owning a jewelry store is not a particularly good way to great wealth).
If you are concerned about being beholden to the giver, don’t accept his offer. The wedding ring is a gift from you to your bride and any third party involvement is a minor detail. It should have the same level of importance to your marriage as what brand of credit card you use to purchase the cake. Your friend is welcome to give you a generous wedding gift if he chooses to do so and you should view it as just that, a gift. It is not a deposit into some sort of Mafia style favor bank unless YOU make it one. Feel free to use his gift to pay off your credit card bill, pay for the honeymoon or however else you see fit to spend it.

His recommendation of a good jeweler should also be taken as just that, a recommendation. If the jeweler wants to make you an especially good offer because they think it will endear them to a valuable client, let ‘em. Take their offer and shop it around. If it’s a great deal, great! Buy there. If not, then politely move on.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver