For those of you with differing opinions than your spouse about children

[katamari]

From reading the threads about the newlyweds waiting excitedly for children and those not wanting children, it looks as if a small group are in the situation DH and I are in where we have different desires for a family. DH wants to be a father. Part of it is straight ritualism, where he just feels it is what people should do, but there is another part of him that really does look forward to having and raising a family. He also wants biological children. I, on the other hand, always envisioned myself and planned my life around being childless.

While dating, around year 6, DH gave me a year to seriously consider having children, letting me know that he would appreciate if I ended our relationship were I to decide that I did not want to have children. I took almost the full year to decide, but ultimately agreed to have children with him because I could still achieve all my goals and with children, and not having children would deny him of his goal of being a father.

While I intend to hold up my end of the bargain, I do still try to negotiate having children with him casually (like every time we see a child behaving badly, I nudge him and say "are you sure" or I point out how our life would be different after children). I also sometimes find myself I can silently sneak into menopause before he is ready (we are both in our early 30s and not in position with our careers to TTC). And, I would be incredibly happy were he to change his mind.

My question, then, for those of you who don''t see eye to eye with your spouse, is how did you come to an agreement? Do you think you are both equally committed to that agreement? And, do you feel fully committed to the compromise?

 

[Camille]

It's nice that you are talking about this before being married. It is clear to me [based on your post] that he won't change his mind.
I had this issue in the past. The man I dated prior to DH was older and done with the 'parenting thing' [as he called] after 6 months of dating, I ended our wonderful relationship.
DH and I agreed to have one child after our 2nd year anni since I was in the middle of starting my own thing with a gal friend.
Def a dual commitment because I knew I'd stay with the baby for at least two years before going back full time.
A child is 18+ years investment, it needs to be taken seriously, I wouldn't worry about children behaving badly, parenting makes a difference and they grow fast.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/20/2009 1:53:13 PM
Author:katamari
From reading the threads about the newlyweds waiting excitedly for children and those not wanting children, it looks as if a small group are in the situation DH and I are in where we have different desires for a family. DH wants to be a father. Part of it is straight ritualism, where he just feels it is what people should do, but there is another part of him that really does look forward to having and raising a family. He also wants biological children. I, on the other hand, always envisioned myself and planned my life around being childless.

While dating, around year 6, DH gave me a year to seriously consider having children, letting me know that he would appreciate if I ended our relationship were I to decide that I did not want to have children. I took almost the full year to decide, but ultimately agreed to have children with him because I could still achieve all my goals and with children, and not having children would deny him of his goal of being a father.

While I intend to hold up my end of the bargain, I do still try to negotiate having children with him casually (like every time we see a child behaving badly, I nudge him and say ''are you sure'' or I point out how our life would be different after children). I also sometimes find myself I can silently sneak into menopause before he is ready (we are both in our early 30s and not in position with our careers to TTC). And, I would be incredibly happy were he to change his mind.

My question, then, for those of you who don''t see eye to eye with your spouse, is how did you come to an agreement? Do you think you are both equally committed to that agreement? And, do you feel fully committed to the compromise?

Wow. I have to say that I honestly think that it is really devious and mean that you would think of robbing your husband of the chance to have kids when you discussed this, and reached an agreement, before your marriage, especially in a manner as underhanded as putting him off until your fertility dries up. I truly can''t imagine a worse thing that a person could do to a spouse.

As you mentioned in your post, you "ultimately agreed to have children with him because I could still achieve all my goals and with children, and not having children would deny him of his goal of being a father." I think that this is the time to do the right thing. If you really don''t want children, then please, do your husband and future children a favor by not having children that you won''t love, but then you should leave him so that he could be with someone who shares the same life goals as his.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, but there is something very wrong with telling someone that you will have children with him, and then secretly hoping that he will change his mind, while secretly plotting to trick him into not having children once you got him to marry you. The right thing to do would have been to not marry him if you really didn''t want children, and I think the only way to redeem the situation now is to come clean & tell him that you don''t want kids, and let him go so that he can find someone who won''t lie to him and will start a family with him.

 

[jstarfireb]

We are in a similar position (he wants them but I don''t). We talked about this long before deciding to get married. Before I accepted his proposal, I made sure we were on the same page...he said that he hopes I''ll change my mind, but he decided that he wants to spend his life with me to a greater extent than he wants to have children. So when it came down to a choice between me and kids, he chose me, but he still hopes for both. I''m leaving room for my mind to possibly change when I get older (all this "biological clock" talk and whatnot), but right now I can''t see it happening. I guess the point is that everything is out in the open with us, and we''re not afraid to discuss it honestly.

 

[Haven]

Kata--I''m sorry you find yourself in this situation, but I have to say that I agree with Vesper. It is a very bad idea to have children if you do not truly want them. I imagine that you may come to resent your husband if you do have children just to make him happy, and worse, you may come to resent your future children.

If he is unwilling to compromise on the children issue, and if you really don''t want to be a mother, it sounds as if this may be a stalemate situation. I truly hope you two can figure out a solution that makes you both happy, and that spares you the grief and heartache that often comes with compromising too much of oneself for another person.

Big hugs.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

My husband really wants kids, I was more or less on the fence before him (I can see the pros and cons of both, and didn't feel passionate about one or the other). But I know he'll be a great father, and there are things about parenthood that we both love and are excited for. So as of now, it looks like we'll have a kid.

Never know though, maybe after a few years I'll realize kids aren't compatible with my other life goals. But I would definitely tell him ASAP if that were ever to occur.

Is it that you really don't want kids? Or that you're more afraid than excited to have them? I'm guess I'm trying to ask whether you don't like the idea of children of your own at all, or if you just currently have more cons than pros and that balance may change in the future?
Also, even if you went into menopause, if he desperately wants to be a father, there is always adoption and even surrogacy.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 9/20/2009 6:02:14 PM
Author: Haven
Kata--I''m sorry you find yourself in this situation, but I have to say that I agree with Vesper. It is a very bad idea to have children if you do not truly want them. I imagine that you may come to resent your husband if you do have children just to make him happy, and worse, you may come to resent your future children.

If he is unwilling to compromise on the children issue, and if you really don''t want to be a mother, it sounds as if this may be a stalemate situation. I truly hope you two can figure out a solution that makes you both happy, and that spares you the grief and heartache that often comes with compromising too much of oneself for another person.

Big hugs.

+2.

Decided to have kids didn''t come until after marriage for us, but we agreed that in this situation if one of us said no the no would absolutely win as it would not be fair to a child to choose to parent with only one of us truly wanting to.

I think you owe it to him to tell him you aren''t comfortable with the compromise you''ve made and that you need to readdress the issue. As difficult as this might be, it will be a lot less painful than having kids you don''t want, or continuing to decieve him, for both of you.

 

[kama_s]

Katamari, what a difficult position to be in. I''m a somewhat similar position, Mr. Kama has been talking about having kids even befor he talked about getting married to me. Meanwhile, I brought up my little brother and come from a home where there is very little parental love. So, needless to say, I really don''t want any of my own. I had several talks with my now hubby about this before we tied the knot, and we sort of left it hanging. He said if I didn''t want kids, he''s okay with it - he''d rather be with me than have kids. But, he said there is a possibility that I might change my mind once I''m in my 30''s (which might happen, who knows?). So for now, we will revisit this topic in another 5 years and take it from there.

I suppose that doesn''t help much with your situation. The only thing to do would be to really introspect and then follow that with a clear discussion with the hubby. I really hope you both are able to find a happy middle ground, whatever that may be.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 9/20/2009 1:53:13 PM
Author:katamari
From reading the threads about the newlyweds waiting excitedly for children and those not wanting children, it looks as if a small group are in the situation DH and I are in where we have different desires for a family. DH wants to be a father. Part of it is straight ritualism, where he just feels it is what people should do, but there is another part of him that really does look forward to having and raising a family. He also wants biological children. I, on the other hand, always envisioned myself and planned my life around being childless.

While dating, around year 6, DH gave me a year to seriously consider having children, letting me know that he would appreciate if I ended our relationship were I to decide that I did not want to have children. I took almost the full year to decide, but ultimately agreed to have children with him because I could still achieve all my goals and with children, and not having children would deny him of his goal of being a father.

While I intend to hold up my end of the bargain, I do still try to negotiate having children with him casually (like every time we see a child behaving badly, I nudge him and say 'are you sure' or I point out how our life would be different after children). I also sometimes find myself I can silently sneak into menopause before he is ready (we are both in our early 30s and not in position with our careers to TTC). And, I would be incredibly happy were he to change his mind.

My question, then, for those of you who don't see eye to eye with your spouse, is how did you come to an agreement? Do you think you are both equally committed to that agreement? And, do you feel fully committed to the compromise?

Do you feel incredibly strongly about not having children because you just don't want them and don't enjoy kids, or because you're afraid of having them, and the changes they'll bring to your life? I think my husband has similar ritualistic parenting feelings to yours, so I can somewhat relate. I wasn't forced to make a choice before marrying him, and we agreed as a couple to make the decision when we were both ready - so our compromise was to both be open to it sometime in the future.

Katamari, I'm more afraid than excited to have children, as evidenced by my dutiful refilling of my BC prescription every month, despite the fact that my husband seems to be ready for me to stop at any time now that he's turned 30. He wasn't always this open to having children, and frankly, I'm a little miffed that it took him this long, since I could have been ready 4 years ago, and as I'm nearing 34, I'm beginning to feel like it may not be an appropriate path for us any longer. I still love children, greatly enjoy spending time with my dear niece, but I'm disturbingly on the fence about something that I thought would be a natural progression in our relationship.

We have always talked about it, and where we are in our opinions on children at any given time. He knows I wish we would have planned to start TTC earlier, but he reassures me that even if I couldn't have children, he wants to be with me tremendously more than he desires children.

Do you think he would choose you over having children?

 

[I Love My Sailor]

As of right now, I would be okay if we didn't have children but I'm only 20 years old and I always wanted to have children when I got older so I think its a matter of now wanted a child right now. My husband wants at least 2 kids and once said he wanted 3, I have fertility issues and can not get pregnant without IVF and I have been advised by one doctor to never carry my own child due to other health problems, he knew very well that there is a possibility that I may never be able to have my own child, we discussed it extensively before we got married and I am convinced that he really just wants to be with me more than his desire to have children. I agreed upon getting a second opinion but if another doctors tell me its not a good idea than I am not going to risk my life and our only other option would be a sergeant. We have left adoption open but understand that it may not happen for us.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 9/20/2009 4:12:17 PM
Author: vespergirl

Date: 9/20/2009 1:53:13 PM
Author:katamari
From reading the threads about the newlyweds waiting excitedly for children and those not wanting children, it looks as if a small group are in the situation DH and I are in where we have different desires for a family. DH wants to be a father. Part of it is straight ritualism, where he just feels it is what people should do, but there is another part of him that really does look forward to having and raising a family. He also wants biological children. I, on the other hand, always envisioned myself and planned my life around being childless.

While dating, around year 6, DH gave me a year to seriously consider having children, letting me know that he would appreciate if I ended our relationship were I to decide that I did not want to have children. I took almost the full year to decide, but ultimately agreed to have children with him because I could still achieve all my goals and with children, and not having children would deny him of his goal of being a father.

While I intend to hold up my end of the bargain, I do still try to negotiate having children with him casually (like every time we see a child behaving badly, I nudge him and say 'are you sure' or I point out how our life would be different after children). I also sometimes find myself I can silently sneak into menopause before he is ready (we are both in our early 30s and not in position with our careers to TTC). And, I would be incredibly happy were he to change his mind.

My question, then, for those of you who don't see eye to eye with your spouse, is how did you come to an agreement? Do you think you are both equally committed to that agreement? And, do you feel fully committed to the compromise?

Wow. I have to say that I honestly think that it is really devious and mean that you would think of robbing your husband of the chance to have kids when you discussed this, and reached an agreement, before your marriage, especially in a manner as underhanded as putting him off until your fertility dries up. I truly can't imagine a worse thing that a person could do to a spouse.

As you mentioned in your post, you 'ultimately agreed to have children with him because I could still achieve all my goals and with children, and not having children would deny him of his goal of being a father.' I think that this is the time to do the right thing. If you really don't want children, then please, do your husband and future children a favor by not having children that you won't love, but then you should leave him so that he could be with someone who shares the same life goals as his.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, but there is something very wrong with telling someone that you will have children with him, and then secretly hoping that he will change his mind, while secretly plotting to trick him into not having children once you got him to marry you. The right thing to do would have been to not marry him if you really didn't want children, and I think the only way to redeem the situation now is to come clean & tell him that you don't want kids, and let him go so that he can find someone who won't lie to him and will start a family with him.

As someone who absolutely, 110% WANTS children, I am in complete agreement with all of this.

Not wanting kids is an absolute dealbreaker for me. I would be so hurt to find myself in a position where my spouse had agreed but ultimately hoped I would change my mind. If I knew DF was secretly hoping I would go into menopause before the time came to TTC, I would be devastated.

I'm not trying to attack OP but it sounds like your H has been crystal-clear about where he stands on this and how important it is to him. You agreed. If you're going to reneg, or want to reneg, I think you owe it to him to be equally forthcoming.

 

[neatfreak]

I can't imagine anything worse than having a mother who didn't want you.

Please reconsider having kids for his sake if it isn't what you want. It's just not fair to him or future children.

If you don't want children that is a valid position to have-and honestly it's a lot more selfish to have kids if you don't want them than it is to abstain if you don't!

 

[musey]

My mother in-law didn''t want kids. Period. She and my father in-law fought over it quite a bit after getting married, and after 9 years, he "convinced" her to "let them have just one."

26 years later she''s fully obsessed with her son, and of course can''t imagine being without him

I don''t think that most women (I suppose I can''t speak for men) go from not wanting kids before having them, to still not wanting them after they have them. It tends to go without saying that you love and are glad for your own kids, regardless of how much you wanted them to begin with.


That doesn''t mean that women who don''t want kids should go ahead and have them anyway just because they know they''ll love them in the long run. I''m all for people not having kids if they don''t want them (more room in the world for all the wanted children). Just sayin'', is all.

 

[trillionaire]

While I agree with you that most parents love and are happy about their children, that is not in and of itself sufficient reason to have one. If having a child changes your relationship with your partner, and it is not for the better, then you can end up losing something in order to gain something. I personally value my relationship with FI, which I made a conscious decision to cultivate, far more than a relationship with a child whom I don't know whom I will hypothetically love. I would resent IF a child came between us, and to me, it's not worth the consideration. I know too many frustrated moms who love their kids dearly but have waning relationships with their husbands. The happiest couples that I know are childless (anecdotal, yes). They are the closest, most affectionate and connected. That is my aspiration. I love my dog, even though she is a lot of work, and I know I would LOVE a kid, but deciding to be childfree is a lifestyle decision, and if that is someone's preference, it sucks for anyone to suggest that they don't know what they want for themselves. And if someone WANTS a child, people should respect that decision, too. If you have incompatible goals, you need to decide which is more important to you... a childfree lifestyle, or your relationship with your Hubs.

 

[musey]

Date: 9/24/2009 3:25:04 PM
Author: trillionaire
While I agree with you that most parents love and are happy about their children, that is not in and of itself sufficient reason to have one.

Of course not, I never suggested that it was. I was personally shocked and somewhat perturbed when my MIL told me about her not wanting kids and being ''convinced'' to have even the one (though I suspect she exaggerates for comedic effect).

My post was not in response to the idea that Kata should go ahead and have kids, it was in response to the idea that having kids without being 110% into the idea is the worst thing imaginable. I can imagine worse things, I bet most people can.

If having a child changes your relationship with your partner, and it is not for the better, then you can end up losing something in order to gain something. I personally value my relationship with FI, which I made a conscious decision to cultivate, far more than a relationship with a child whom I don''t know whom I will hypothetically love. I would resent IF a child came between us, and to me, it''s not worth the consideration. I know too many frustrated moms who love their kids dearly but have waning relationships with their husbands. The happiest couples that I know are childless (anecdotal, yes). They are the closest, most affectionate and connected. That is my aspiration.

That''s very sad - that the childless couples you know are much happier than those with children. That''s actually the polar opposite of what my experience has been. I suspect that in most cases, the children are not what ruins a relationship, but of course that''s just based on my personal experience and observations.

I love my dog, even though she is a lot of work, and I know I would LOVE a kid, but deciding to be childfree is a lifestyle decision, and if that is someone''s preference, it sucks for anyone to suggest that they don''t know what they want for themselves. And if someone WANTS a child, people should respect that decision, too. If you have incompatible goals, you need to decide which is more important to you... a childfree lifestyle, or your relationship with your Hubs.

Of course that sucks and is completely unfair/uncalled for/inappropriate - did someone suggest that? I know it wasn''t me. Don''t know if you''re no longer referring to my post here.

I think it''s WONDERFUL when people can have the confidence and self-awareness to decide against children. There are too many people in this world. I''m all for those not interested simply saying "thanks, but I''ll pass." I think it would be wonderful if all parents could be of the fully-devoted and fully-capable variety, but that''s not realistic, and I still think that there are worse things a parent can be than "reluctant."

Again, just to be clear: none of that is to say that I think Kata should go and pop out a few babies. On the contrary, I strongly agree that in this case, she owes it to her husband to honestly share her feelings on the subject, and they can go from there. Having or not having children is too important a life decision to keep feelings secret.

 

[fieryred33143]

I think it was very wrong to have gotten married having this huge difference between you. Its not the same as one partner that is on the fence. This is very black and white: he wants children, you do not.

I also agree with just telling him the truth rather than have a child and see how it goes. Babies change you and they change your relationship. And I think most moms will agree that babies want their mom. It can be a room full of people and your baby will only want you. I can''t imagine going through that experience when you didn''t want children to begin with. It would be a lot more common for you to feel resentful towards the child that is now taking away your time (and sleep) and is 100% dependent on you.

I would really think about why you don''t want children. If its out of fear, you get over it. If you see couples with screaming children, you sympathize and understand after you have your own (and the screams of another child don''t seem as loud after you''ve gone through your own child''s meltdown). If you want to travel, you get yourself the best PNP on the market and you go. These fears and worries go away.

But if you just don''t want to be a mom you owe it to yourself and your DH to be honest and let him choose what to do.

 

[FrekeChild]

Kata--

Lately I've been considering having a child. I have firmly been in the mindset that I didn't want kids, PERIOD, for quite some time, and only recently have thought to myself..."Are you SURE?"

And currently the answer to that is I don't know.

Because of FI's and my situation (me being adopted and knowing nothing of my medical history, him having just about the worst medical history possible) biological children are out of the picture for us. Period. We won't do it unless there is an accident. But because I'm adopted, that option weighs on my mind. And I found myself looking at international adoption websites last week because I wanted to know what the requirements were for potential parents. And I wanted to know how long, how much money, and how much effort it was going to take.

Adoption in general makes sense for us, because of our medical histories, but also because we feel like this earth is overpopulated as it is, and seeing as how I have 7 nieces and nephews and he has 2 nephews, we feel like our siblings have done enough to reproduce for all of us and them some (6 people, 9 kids). And we're socially aware, and know that there are plenty of "unwanted" children out there that need good homes, and we could provide a good home for them.

So I've absorbed information about it. We'd be great parents. There are kids out there who need stability in their lives. But do I want to have a kid? I don't know. And FI has left it in my hands, because I'd be the primary caregiver, and he has seen me around little kids--he knows that this matters more to me than it does to him--one way or another. I know my mom desperately wanted to have a child, and I was a little hellion...I mean, miraculous gift, but am I made of similar stuff? If I wait for the biological clock to kick in, and it doesn't happen...well ok. But what if I wait, and it hits late? Too late? Or what if we go ahead, decide to adopt, and then I find out that I didn't want a child that badly? And heaven forbid, regret it?

And perhaps thats why they make the process so long and tedious. It seems to me that no one would go through it (20-24 months of just waiting, a trip around the world, who knows how many thousands of dollars) unless they really wanted a child. Really REALLY REALLY wanted a child.

So while our situations aren't the same, I think on some level there are similarities. I think you feel conflicted, because you have said you're willing to give your husband children, but you don't truly want them. I don't know if I truly want them, but once you make a decision, you have to stick with it.

The question I have to ask you, which is similar to the question others have asked or been asked: Do you want to be childless more than you want your DH?

((((((((HUGS Kata))))))). If you're going through anything close to what I'm going through I feel for you. As for your remarks in the OP, I think that this is weighing on your. I think that you are feeling a lot of pressure, and you aren't sure how you want to deal with it. One thing is for certain to me, that you care about your DH greatly, and your feelings about not having children, and your feelings for him are colliding directly, and you don't know what to do. Hang in there.

 

[FrekeChild]

And to everyone who pointed out the menopause thoughts of Kata''s, that came directly after she said she fully intends to follow through with their agreement to have children. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 9/25/2009 1:56:36 AM
Author: FrekeChild
And to everyone who pointed out the menopause thoughts of Kata''s, that came directly after she said she fully intends to follow through with their agreement to have children. Just wanted to point that out.

Gotcha - I still think that it was a horrible thing to even think about doing, and why would she even mention it unless she had given the idea some thought.

Also, in the original post, the OP mentions that after 6 years together, her then-boyfriend "gave her a year to seriously consider having children, letting her know that he would appreciate if she ended the relationship were she to decide that she did not want to have children." So, in response to those posts asking whether her DH would choose kids over her, to me it''s clear that he did definitively tell her that he did not want the relationship if she did not want kids - letting her know that kids were a dealbreaker issue for him.

That''s what is so sad about this situation to me - he gave her A YEAR to make up her decision, and after 7 years with this man, she basically just told him want he wanted to hear so that she could get married. Now, any situation in which they stay together seems doomed - either she has kids that will grow up knowing that their mother never wanted them, or her husband has to live childless because she couldn''t give him an honest answer after he asked her to let him go if she didn''t want kids. I just think that the whole situation is really bad.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 9/24/2009 11:09:02 PM
Author: musey

My post was not in response to the idea that Kata should go ahead and have kids, it was in response to the idea that having kids without being 110% into the idea is the worst thing imaginable. I can imagine worse things, I bet most people can.

Musey, we can all imagine worse things, without a doubt, but when a person isn''t sure, has a child and ends up not being a successful parent because it''s not truly what they want for their life the child is absolutely affected, permanently, as a result. Having worked with 100s of children it is absolutely obvious which ones are loved, wanted, and cared for, and which are seen as a burden. No matter how hard a parent tries to mask that, it is still evident, and heartbreaking.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

Although i don''t completely disagree with others who have said that people who don''t want children wind up resenting them because there are people who are like that out there... not everyone ends up like this Kata.

I have not been in your situation but i can tell you mine and hope that you can relate to it.

I have a daughter, she is 9. I am getting married next year and we are constantly asked if we are going to have children of our own (i''m only 29 so it could be on the cards) but i can honestly say that i have absolutely no intention, need, want or desire to have another child. I am good with kids, i work with kids, i can goo and gaa over small baby clothes with the best of them but i don''t want any more of my own. I get annoyed with strangers badly behaved children and i think to myslef how i am so glad that i wont be doing that again any time soon and it solidifies my choice not to have another baby, but it doesn''t mean that i don''t love the daughter that i have. She''s my girl, she brings me so much joy, i see me in her every day and if i could go back and change the past i wouldn''t, i couldnt imagine not having her in my life and if i was to fall pregnant again i know that i would love that child just the same even though i have made the choice not to have any more.

Only you will know deep down if you are the person who would end up resenting your husband and children or the person who would love your babies even if it wasn''t what you really wanted, and as far as things happening in your life that you didn''t want, having kids is a pretty good one imo.

 

[katamari]

I am so very sorry to have posted and ran--especially on something that became so heated. I just have been so busy with work and home that I haven''t had time to go on PS. I have very thoughtfully read what you all posted and certainly appreciate the very honest thoughts you had on the issue. I appreciate all your thoughts, earnestness, and support.

Two things I wish I could have addressed earlier in my thread that I think applies to everyone''s post. First, the menopause comment was completely insensitive and off-hand. It kind of came off of a stream of consciousness post (hence the typo in the sentence) and was probably more harsh than I actually feel. Of course, the fact that it did come from my consciousness need to be addressed, but it isn''t nearly as honest or as spiteful as it reads. Second, my DH is fully aware that I would still prefer to be childless and we very openly talk about our disagreement here.

Camille, DH definitely won''t change his mind and I would never break that sort of promise with him. DH will also be as supportive as possible with timing, which will be incredibly helpful because it certainly is a dual commitment.

Vesper, I fully agree that the menopause comment was very devious. I didn''t mean it as it read. One of my friends always says, whenever her child behaves badly, that it moves her one day closer to menopause. I am guessing that is why I felt it more lightly, but I very much see your point of how terrible it sounds. My reservation towards children is not that I would resent them or not love them--quite the contrary. It would be a different lifestyle that I find less desirous, but not one I couldn''t find happiness in; otherwise, I would have never made that concession. I do agree with you that, were I be this type of person who would lie and undermine my partner, it would end badly. But, I believe from my vantage point that this is not the case. I fully respect your decision to disagree with me. Regarding a later comment, I do not intend for my husband to live a childless life and we openly discussed our differing viewpoints on children as part of our premarital counseling. My DH is at least aware of my feelings, but I obviously have complex emotions surrounding them.

DH does know how I feel about wishing he would change his mind, but he also knows that I would honor the promise I made to him. I totally see how it reads like there is plotting going on, but there really isn''t. I would be happy if he came home today and told me he changed his mind, and I cannot control that I feel that. But, I would also be just as happy if he came home today and wanted to talk about our TtC schedule. If I did ever get to the point that I was ever feeling like doing something devious (like lying to him about BC), I would give him the opportunity to leave. But, I don''t see myself really crossing that path.

We are also very open and honest, jstar, and I feel that is the most important thing. From my vantage point, and from my DH''s from every indicator he has offered, we are in the same (but reverse) situation. We both leave the potential for change, but we at least know where each other stands.

Thanks, Haven. I do fully agree. And, again, my OP makes it sound like I want children less than I do. Sorry for the poor analogy, but I see it like this: right now I live in a sizable city in the Midwest that has a lot of enjoyable things going on. It is nice, but I would find it much more desirable to live in a large city on a coast that has an overwhelming amount of amazing things to do. But, I also very much see the potential for a large city to feel over-stimulating and less desirable and I feel that both have considerable pros and cons. I feel the same way about family life. And, I feel like being able to see the pros and cons of childless and childed family lives as a sign that compromise is possible, as does DH. But, again, if I really didn''t intend to give him children, I would certainly communicate that with him and give him the opportunity to leave.

Making the Grade, fear and uncertainty certainly are a factor. Not about not loving them, but about the nature of relationships with children. Part of my job is that I have to read and be on top of the research about gender inequality and discrimination. It is sometimes hard to separate the general from the individual when I am looking at piles of findings every day that point to how the mother experiences workplace discrimination while the father experiences benefits or how the mother''s time experiences much more stress and demand, even in egalitarian households. I think part of this stems from desire, too, though. If I strongly desired children, I wouldn''t care so much (I am guessing) about how they negatively impacted my career, the equity in my relationship, my time, etc. But that certainly plays a big role. DH knows all about this and is sensitive to these concerns.

Kimberly, I am very grateful to have had this discussion and decision with DH. It was after we had decided to spend our lives together, but long before engagement or marriage. I do, though, believe I could still be a good mother despite these feelings. I feel that the potential to resent or welcome a child into your life occurs in every family, regardless of how the parents feel pre- or during pregnancy, and I would certainly do everything I could to provide our children with the best possible life (which obviously includes having parents who love them and are thankful to parent them).

Thanks for sharing, kama. I fully agree that how you were raised has a lot to do with how you think about family. FI''s sister died of SIDS at 8 months. My own father died when I was in first grade. It obviously changed our family dynamic greatly, and does always make me think about the unexpected (and often the worst) in terms of the pain having a family can potentially cause or save. Because DH and I do not plan to TtC for another 2 years, I also believe there is full potential for me to change my mind.

[/b]Lauren[/b], absolutely the changes have a lot to do with it, and I discuss this in my answer to MakingtheGrade above. I also think, as you discuss, that it is somewhat frustrating to me that it is out of ritualism more than an overt desire to parent. It is also difficult, being older, because we have less and less time to find the perfect time (as if such a thing exists). I do honestly think DH would choose childless me over children with someone else, despite the earlier "ultimatum" of sorts, but I also don''t intend for him to have to make that choice.

Reading your story, I Love My Sailor, made me feel terrible about making light of early menopause. I do not know if I would have trouble conceiving, since I have not tried, but I should feel lucky to have the opportunity. I do certainly wish you the best luck with adoption or coming up with other alternatives. I wish you had more agency in making decisions about your fertility. The worst situation is to have something other than you or your DH influencing such an important decision.

I do not feel attacked, absolut_blonde. I am honest with my DH because I want him to know how I feel, but I do expect him to feel hurt by it, even if my intention is not to hurt him. I cannot control my emotions fully, I can control how I choose to deal with them and try to do it in the way that is most beneficial to our relationship

neatfreak, I fully agree. I should not have used such black and white language in my OP. I probably should think further about how much of the decision hinges only on my DH''s wishes.

This is what I am expecting to happen, musey. I don''t think anyone knows how they will respond to children, but I believe that expectations influence behaviors so if I expect to become a dedicated mother, I feel it would be more likely than not.

We have many of the same beliefs and observations, trillionaire. The point of my OP was to see if anyone else with similarly developed beliefs has a life with a partner who doesn''t feel the same way. I suppose I feel some guilt for my feeling, otherwise I wouldn''t have sought support on a public forum. But, it is very difficult because having children is such a significant lifestyle that does change a couple''s life in an unchangeable way. And, it does scare me to put that up for challenge (especially our gender dynamic).

I appreciate the frank response, fiery. It is good to know that the fears and anxieties will change. They certainly drive my current feelings, but we are also a dual-demanding-career relationship that will most certainly take us away from our families which makes having children (or at least having the help of your family while having children) more complicated. I think if anything, thinking through all of these responses have helped me reassess my own feelings. Five years ago, I would agree that I absolutely did not want children. Three years ago, I would rather not have had them but was willing to do it for my partner. Now, I still primarily want my way (who doesn''t) but I also am open for the possibility for wonderful things to happen in our relationship with children. I hope that constant evolution suggests that I will be the mother DH deserves for his children. But, it is a slow and complicated process.

Reading your situation really did help, Freke. I think you are spot on that it is so difficult because it is a finite decision. And, not just a finite decision, but one that so deeply impacts so many peoples'' lives--including my own, my DH''s, and a child who had absolutely no agency in the matter. Plus, it is fully unpredictable and incredibly complicated, as you mention. If it was possible, I think we would have agreed to leave it in the hands of the primary caregiver, whichever it should be. However, that isn''t entirely possible for us. Since we are both academics, the job market decided who will be the superstar and who will be the trailing spouse and the fact that we are in different disciplines does not help. It is highly unlikely that the same university will be hiring in his department someone who does what he does and my department will be hiring someone who does what I do. So, we have to see who gets the best offer (that also lets them negotiate the spousal hire) and then decide if we are going to take it or to take jobs at other universities (all of this assuming, of course, that we are even able to find jobs with nearly half of colleges on a hiring freeze). So, while we don''t have the same situation, I agree that the level-of-complication is similar. And, it is difficult to go through when you feel so differently than someone you love so much about something so important.

Thank you for telling me about your feelings and relationship with your daughter, hawaiianorangetree. I do hope and expect to feel the same way about the family I eventually have with DH. I can only guess about how I will feel towards our children, but I do appreciate hearing that a clear delineation can exist between how you feel about children, generally, and your own children, specifically.

To everyone who stuck with me through such a long and (at least for me) emotional post. The reason I was posting to begin with was because it is a very difficult position to be in when you disagree with your partner on something so important. Especially when you believe you should agree. I, again, appreciate the thoughts of everyone who posted and extend support to all of us who are experiencing something similar.

 

[geckodani]

katamari - ((HUGS)) I read, but didn''t have much to add in the way of comments. I did want to say that I think you wrote an excellent response to everyone, and commend you on it.

 

[fieryred33143]

I hear you on being career driven. I am too and its one of my biggest struggles now that I''m a mom. I spent about half of my maternity leave emailing my boss because he wouldn''t leave me alone and I''m scheduled to go to another country when DD will be just shy of 4 months. I have to give her formula even though she''s a breastfed baby strictly because of the demands of my job. And I don''t have a choice. I have to work and am lucky that in this economy I even have a job let alone a great one. Its hard but you push through it. You become more efficient with your time and your determination increases because now you''re working for the future of your baby.

That''s not to say that you should have one. I don''t think it is ever wrong to decide you don''t want children. You don''t need children to be a loving family. But I just want to tell you that you push through those fears.

 

[vespergirl]

Katamari, I''m so glad that you came back and clarified your original post. After I read your original post, I thought that you seemed kind of flippant on an issue that''s clearly a dealbreaker to your DH, & it made me feel really sorry for him, but when I read your follow-up post, it''s clear that you take the issue, your DH''s feelings, and your relationship really seriously, so I''m sorry if I came off as kind of harsh. I''m really glad to hear that you are really working on getting this issue resolved with your husband, and it sounds like you are a very thoughtful person.

In fact, it sounds to me like you''re putting a lot of thought into having kids, not because you don''t like them, but because if you did have them, you would want to be the very best parent and give the child the very best life that you could. That is highly commendable, and something that more people who have (or are trying to have) children should do thoroughly.

Whatever you two come to decide, I wish you luck for your future.

 

[jstarfireb]

I don''t have much else to add, just saying thanks for returning and writing such a heartfelt post. At least from the persona I''ve seen on PS, I can tell you''re reasonable, levelheaded and down to earth, which is the best way to approach these situations. I''m sure you''ll end up at peace with whatever you decide to do.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

Date: 9/25/2009 5:12:08 PM
Author: vespergirl
Katamari, I''m so glad that you came back and clarified your original post. After I read your original post, I thought that you seemed kind of flippant on an issue that''s clearly a dealbreaker to your DH, & it made me feel really sorry for him, but when I read your follow-up post, it''s clear that you take the issue, your DH''s feelings, and your relationship really seriously, so I''m sorry if I came off as kind of harsh. I''m really glad to hear that you are really working on getting this issue resolved with your husband, and it sounds like you are a very thoughtful person.

In fact, it sounds to me like you''re putting a lot of thought into having kids, not because you don''t like them, but because if you did have them, you would want to be the very best parent and give the child the very best life that you could. That is highly commendable, and something that more people who have (or are trying to have) children should do thoroughly.

Whatever you two come to decide, I wish you luck for your future.

+1.

I was in the "heck no" camp for a long time. Even when I met my husband and when we got married I made it clear to him that there would be no children. Well, I changed my mind (imagine that!). I got bit by the baby bug and waited a few months to even mention it to my husband for fear that he''d say "I told you so". I don''t know what changed in me, but I knew at that moment on that day that I wanted to be a mother. I got pregnant and had my son on July 2, 2008. He is the most wonderful human being and makes me so happy. I cannot imagine my life without him. Being a working mom is hard but it''s also rewarding in so many ways. I think it''s also worth mentioning that it''s normal to be scared or apprehensive about having a baby. I also feel that if you wait until you''re completely ready to have a baby then you never will - because you''ll never be 100% prepared.

My (long-winded) point is that you might change your mind, too. I think it''s wonderful that you are putting so much thought into a h-u-g-e decision. My husband also always wanted to have children and he''s such a *natural* father. He is great with our son and I imagine that your DH will be that way too. I wish you and your DH the best of luck in the future.

 

[FrekeChild]

You know Kata, academia is so hard on parents--I'm sure you know this. There are somewhere around 25 faculty members in FI's department, and three have kids. One adopted a son in her 40s, once she was well established, and the other two had children young, I'd guess right out of grad school. This is also weighing on me, because like you guys, FI is planning on continuing with academia and academic life is HARD on family life. So similar to your situation (again), we go where he gets a job, and I kind of have to fly by the seat of my pants. I hear you on the spousal hire, and just how unlikely it is for you both to have your various disciplines hiring at one school. Perhaps it would be possible for you guys to try for a city that has multiple universities, but even then it's highly unlikely. And that's not even getting into the mess that's the hiring freeze.

Ugh. Perhaps I should get FI to take his sweet time on his dissertation and maybe by then the economy will have picked back up. So I'm not surprised that this is a factor in your decision making.

I think that you have spent a TON of time thinking about this, and talking it over with your DH. It sounds like you both know exactly what is going on in each other's heads, so I think that you'll end up making the right decision for both of you.

And this is such a finite decision. It is why it's so hard. There is no turning around or giving a kid back--it means a change of life for everyone close to you, but especially you. And that is SO HARD to comprehend.

Eesh. I feel for you.

 

[FrekeChild]

One more thought--I think if all parents put as much thought into having children as you and I have, the world would probably be a very different place.

 

[jstarfireb]

Date: 9/25/2009 8:46:55 PM
Author: FrekeChild
One more thought--I think if all parents put as much thought into having children as you and I have, the world would probably be a very different place.

WORD.