First Post...and Final Questions on RB,Vatche x-prong

[burnside]

Hello Forum!

I appreciate this forum and the people on it that go out of their way to help others. Your past posts have educated me.

I think I have my search down to a handful of stones. Please help me choose. You may number your comments to correspond to the numbers I have assigned to the diamonds:

1) 0.82ct I SI2 Round H&A $2.7K bankwire http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3770/ one inclusion at 12o''clock that can be hidden with prong

2) 0.81ct I SI2 Round H&A $2.6K bankwire http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3769/ intangibly better S,B,F but two med inclusions at periphery

***NOTE: Johnathan spent time with both the above stones and could not recommend one over the other.

3) 0.843 ct I SI1 A Cut Above H&A $3K http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-471548.htm

4) 0.84 ct H SI2 A Cut Above H&A $3K http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-471536.htm

5) 0.824 ct I VS1 A Cut Above H&A $3.3K http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-471550.htm

6) 0.816 ct H SI1 A Cut Above H&A $3.2K http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-283238.htm

7) 0.824 ct H VS2 Round Ideal Cut $2.9K http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-471579.htm this one seems to be a real value, but I need to talk with Brian at WF to get this one in front of his eyes





Concerning settings, I am trying to choose between a Vatche x-prong and a similarly-styled one:

1) 18K WG Vatche x-prong (BTW, what is the difference between "Royal" and "regular"?) $768
http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/V-102/

2) 14K WG Trellis $180
http://cgi.ebay.com/14k-W-TRELLIS-DIAMOND-RING-SETTING-AS015-RD_W0QQitemZ260175197989QQihZ016QQcategoryZ92914QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


Total budget ~$3400

(WF prices are listed without PS and bankwire discount)

Other considerations:
I am a "bang-for-buck" kind of guy. I am willing to spend "when and where it counts." Both GOG and WF have good trade-up policies. I have not talked with anyone at WF yet, but will likely speak with Brian considering the excellent comments on his service in this forum. Neither place will I need to worry about tax. What would you do if you were me? Please help me decide!

 

[johngalt2004]

6+2

H, SI1 is my mindclean limit, and that leaves you enough in your budget to get setting #2.

That''s what I''d do in your shoes. For sure.

 

[burnside]

Thanks for the suggestion! Although it is hard to tell the difference between an H and I, I understand what you mean by "mindclean."

I just realized that I should clarify I am leaning towards the inexpensive setting because I cannot justify spending >$500 more to become almost a quarter of my total ring price. I also lean towards the 14K because I read that it will be more durable and will be whiter compared to 18K when the rhodium wears off.

I think of the budget of soft cap at $3.5...the higher the total price just means more lifestyle adjustments on my part.

 

[burnside]

It occurred to me that this will make it easier to evaluate these stones. Many of them have several (including Ideal scope, aset, x-ray, etc.) to look at through the links:

1)
Carat Weight: 0.82ct
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
GIA Cut Grade: Excellent
AGS Light Performance: Ideal
Optical Symmetry: Superior
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Negligible
Girdle: 2.08%
Culet: None
Lab Report: GIA
In House: Yes
Width: 6.01mm
Length: 6.06mm
Depth: 3.70mm
Table Percentage: 57.20%
Depth Percentage: 61.39%
Crown Ú: 34.95‹
Crown Depth: 14.98%
Pavilion Ú: 40.48‹
Pavilion Depth: 42.67%
Upper Girdle Ú: 43.11‹
Lower Girdle Ú: 41.84‹

2)
Carat Weight: 0.81ct
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
GIA Cut Grade: Excellent
AGS Light Performance: Ideal
Optical Symmetry: Superior
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Negligible
Girdle: 1.80%
Culet: None
Lab Report: GIA
In House: Yes
Width: 5.97mm
Length: 6.00mm
Depth: 3.71mm
Table Percentage: 55.20%
Depth Percentage: 61.91%
Crown Ú: 34.28‹
Crown Depth: 15.27%
Pavilion Ú: 40.82‹
Pavilion Depth: 43.09%
Upper Girdle Ú: 42.23‹
Lower Girdle Ú: 41.97‹

3) . Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.843
. Depth %: 62
. Table %: 56.8
. Crown Angle: 35
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 52
. Pavilion Angle: 40.9
. Pavilion %: 43.2
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.03-6.06X3.75
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

4)
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.840
. Depth %: 61.4
. Table %: 56.8
. Crown Angle: 34.8
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 52
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.05-6.07X3.72
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible
5)
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.824
. Depth %: 62
. Table %: 56.7
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.5
. Star : 54
. Pavilion Angle: 40.9
. Pavilion %: 43.2
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 6.02-6.06X3.73
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible
6)
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.816
. Depth %: 61.5
. Table %: 57
. Crown Angle: 34.9
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 5.97-5.99X3.68
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible
7)
. Report: AGS
. Shape: Round Ideal Cut
. Carat: 0.824
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 57.1
. Crown Angle: 34.9
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.9
. Pavilion %: 43.1
. Lower Girdle %: 77
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 6.01-6.03X3.71
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

I am also open to adjusting my criteria.

 

[E B]

I'd be cautious about buying anything from e-bay. You just can't be sure of the quality.

My first question would be: Is this your girlfriend's forever e-ring? If not forever, for a long time? If so, I'd recommend spending the $ for the Vatche. Knox Jewelers also has a more affordable trellis setting, at $490:

WG Trellis

 

[burnside]

Thanks for the heads-up on another trellis setting! AFAIK, Vatche is the not setting she has been eyeing for a long time. In fact, the one time that we looked at B&M places together, it was a surprise when we were in BB&B to find a palladium trellis setting. She accidently picked it out twice. This is how I know she would like a trellis setting.

I am more concerned about the quality of the setting. If the ebay setting is really not a good option (despite the excellent feedback they have), I would probably go ahead and get the Vatche because it is only an additional ~$200 over the Knox trellis (factoring in the addition mounting cost of using an outside setting). But maybe I would go for the Knox because of durability (14K). Hmmm.

 

[february2003bride]

I can''t help you on the diamonds, bu I can help you on the American Set Ebay setting you posted. I bought a platinum cathedral setting from them (not my current setting, which is from Blue Nile), and it was excellent. You have to give them specific measurements on your stone, and have someone else set it, but other than that, I found the setting to be amazing quality!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I''d want the highest color and clarity possible, so I''d definitely choose either the H VS2 or H SI1. So if you buy a stone from WhiteFlash, I would buy a setting from them. They have simple tiffany style settings starting at $195. However, 18k is preferable in white gold if you can afford it. It will be a hassle to buy the stone from one place and have it set elsewhere. Not to mention you will likely pay a setting fee if you do that.

 

[burnside]

Thanks for the personal experience with Americanset

 

[burnside]

I anticipate a setting fee of $50-100 if I buy the stone and setting from different places. We do not like Tiffany knife-edge settings. She would like the WF trellis but then it is more $$$ than the Vatche!

Another thought about going with a less expensive setting is that gold prices are at a peak/are peaking. Actually, I think the last time gold peaked like this was when my parents married (>25 years ago). We could possibly upgrade to a nicer setting later.

Keep the thoughts coming!

 

[Lynn B]

Personally, first and foremost -- I insist on the BEST CUT I can find. That determines the beauty and the *life* of a diamond. Next I want a diamond that faces up beautifully white (no hint of yellow AT ALL) and I want totally, 100% eyeclean, even at close scrutiny. And I want SIZE, babeeeee, SIZE!

My first diamond was a beautiful AGS-0, 1.53 RB, G/VS2 because I was a nervous newbie diamond and that was a very *safe* purchase. My upgrade stone is a killer cut, gorgeous, AGS-0, 2.36 RB, J/SI2 - blazingly white and totally eye-clean. This diamond speaks for itself. Believe me, I was more than happy to drop color and clarity for SIZE. I didn''t want to pay for what I couldn''t *see* (high color, high clarity)... I wanted to put my money where *I* could see it... which was SPARKLE and SIZE.

So while I well respect mind-clean and/or "purity" issues, I am thankful to the heavens above that I don''t have much of them!!!

SOOOO, from your above choices, I would pick the LARGEST stone with the best CUT that is eye-clean. Personally, since none of your diamonds go below I color, for me that''s a non-issue. They''d all face up beautifully white, IMVHO.

But honestly, if it were ME, I''d be looking at eye-clean J and K (killer cut) stones and try to hit the 1 carat mark with the same amount of money! Yessiree, Bob, that''s what I''d do in a heartbeat!

 

[johngalt2004]

ok here''s a thought..... WF is offering 10% off settings thru 12/31 if you buy an ACA or ES. The more you spend the more you save!

So that''s $832 or the xprong trellis, a pittance over the Vatche.

And any of these three H,SI1 ACA''s from for about $3050 each....

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-283234.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-283238.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-283256.htm

That makes $3900 out the door barely 10% over your soft cap.

You gettin HELPED yet? lol

 

[burnside]

So you advocate something like this:

0.94ct J SI2 Hand Selected Round $2.9K bankwire http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3723/

 

[burnside]

johngalt, that is interesting, but I think I am getting a better deal with the GOG .82 I SI2 and Vatche setting which comes out to $500 less. This stone looks great to me. But then I think about how if I compromise a bit on color, I could get closer to 1ct.

I just want this to be special for her.

 

[johngalt2004]

You'll do the right thing.

Are you talking with her about any of it - do you know where her head is at on these issues (color vs size, setting vs stone, etc)?

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/summary.asp

It is very personal and reasonable people can disagree on every aspect.

On this board there are lots of ladies who will give on color all the way to J and even K for the sake of size and cut. But that doesn't mean the mainstream typical consumer girl will. Best to find out what your girl likes if you can.

I think it is even risky to go on a limb with the setting based on guesses and inferences. It might be good to put the best stone your money can buy in the cheapest white gold setting you can get away with - understanding that she will pick the final setting herself in good time (and maybe when budget constraints are relaxed a bit).

If you can stretch to this one... you have a 1 carat with perfect ags light performance, failing a zero only due to polish... ask Jonathan what he thinks of this one - I bet it would blow your girl's head right off. And it is an "H" to boot. I would bet this is a killer value for $4192. A thinking man's value stone! http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3661/

And here's the cheapest 1 carat ags0 I can find - J color but it is cut good! (I'd maybe give up the good hearts and ideal polish for two color grades but that is just me, I'm a bit of a colorphobe) http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-38694.htm for $4057. I know they wouldn't sell it as an ACA if it wasn't great.


You'll do the right thing. Fun huh?

 

[tulip928]

The difference between the X-prong and the Royal X - The shank tapers smaller in width towards the diamond. I chose the Royal X for my .75 diamond because I thought it would accentuate the diamond a little more. I''m not sure if it does, but I like the setting.

 

[tulip928]

Here''s a side view of the Royal X-prong so you can see how it tapers towards the diamond.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 11/24/2007 10:21:06 PM
Author: burnside
So you advocate something like this:

0.94ct J SI2 Hand Selected Round $2.9K bankwire http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3723/

I assume you were talking to me? Otherwise, ooops, please forgive!

I only had a sec to look over that diamond - and I didn't get to the cert so I haven't seen the plot (although hopefully by now you have learned that plots can be really scary-looking and you have to take them for what they are!) -- but yeah, it looks good to me! That's A LOT of diamond for under $3K!

I would ask Jon to look at it, he'll give you the straight scoop on color and eye-cleanness (eye-cleanliness??!

haha!) plus he could probably run the battery of other fun tests with the toys that he has at GOG if you are seriously interested in it.

Also, I well realize that everyone has their own feelings (sometimes quite passionate, I may add!) about what's most important to *them* when buying a diamond. I never dismiss anyone else's concerns, opinions, or advice. But when a newbie comes here, they are asking for personal opinions (usually)... so I figure they can expect a diverse range of *opinions*. This is just mine.

Most people in the real world are NOT PS'ers... MOST people in the real world buy (mediocre) diamonds at the mall, or other chain or retail jewelry stores... *wherever*. The *quality* and "beauty" of those diamonds can be sketchy (at best).

Most people don't have any clue about how cut influences beauty, and while some people can rattle off the 4 C's, they can't really explain how each works together to create a beautiful (or, sadly, not-so-beautiful) diamond. Ask someone what color or clarity their diamond is and 9 times out of 10 you will get a blank stare. I would also venture to say that most people pretty much think, "A diamond is a diamond is a diamond..." So my thinking is this... when a person comes here and gets educated, and buys a diamond concentrating on CUT (and therefore *beauty*), that diamond will likely BLOW AWAY all "competitors". And if that diamond happens to be a "lower" color (or clarity) grade, who, REALLY, will *notice" or *care*? I dare say likely no one.

Unless a diamond is obviously *yellow* or visibly included, *most people* will NOT notice "color" or "clarity". They will notice sparkle, beauty, and (yes, I know I am a broken record!

) -- SIZE!

BTW, here's a picture of my diamond.

 

[iheartscience]

I just wanted to add a big fat DITTO to everything LynnB says!

If I were you, I would maximize the diamond size and go with a more inexpensive setting. I do like the X prong but I think a thinner setting would probably emphasize a 1ish carat or less diamond more than the X prong would.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 11/25/2007 1:04:24 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 11/24/2007 10:21:06 PM
Author: burnside
So you advocate something like this:

0.94ct J SI2 Hand Selected Round $2.9K bankwire http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/3723/

I assume you were talking to me? Otherwise, ooops, please forgive!

I only had a sec to look over that diamond - and I didn''t get to the cert so I haven''t seen the plot (although hopefully by now you have learned that plots can be really scary-looking and you have to take them for what they are!) -- but yeah, it looks good to me! That''s A LOT of diamond for under $3K!

I would ask Jon to look at it, he''ll give you the straight scoop on color and eye-cleanness (eye-cleanliness??!

haha!) plus he could probably run the battery of other fun tests with the toys that he has at GOG if you are seriously interested in it.

Also, I well realize that everyone has their own feelings (sometimes quite passionate, I may add!) about what''s most important to *them* when buying a diamond. I never dismiss anyone else''s concerns, opinions, or advice. But when a newbie comes here, they are asking for personal opinions (usually)... so I figure they can expect a diverse range of *opinions*. This is just mine.

Most people in the real world are NOT PS''ers... MOST people in the real world buy (mediocre) diamonds at the mall, or other chain or retail jewelry stores... *wherever*. The *quality* and ''beauty'' of those diamonds can be sketchy (at best).

Most people don''t have any clue about how cut influences beauty, and while some people can rattle off the 4 C''s, they can''t really explain how each works together to create a beautiful (or, sadly, not-so-beautiful) diamond. Ask someone what color or clarity their diamond is and 9 times out of 10 you will get a blank stare. I would also venture to say that most people pretty much think, ''A diamond is a diamond is a diamond...'' So my thinking is this... when a person comes here and gets educated, and buys a diamond concentrating on CUT (and therefore *beauty*), that diamond will likely BLOW AWAY all ''competitors''. And if that diamond happens to be a ''lower'' color (or clarity) grade, who, REALLY, will *notice'' or *care*? I dare say likely no one.

Unless a diamond is obviously *yellow* or visibly included, *most people* will NOT notice ''color'' or ''clarity''. They will notice sparkle, beauty, and (yes, I know I am a broken record!

) -- SIZE!

BTW, here''s a picture of my diamond.

Lynn,

You make a lot of great points! I wish I would have read this post a couple of months ago ... maybe it would have helped me get over the color thing and "purity" issues. Whenever I have been looking at diamonds, I have found myself really color sensitive. As you so eloquently stated though ... if it is a dynamic cut then it will face up white which makes the color issue a moot point. Maybe I will get over my hang ups for an upgrade in the future and wind up with a monster rock for an e-ring? Thanks for teaching a not so old dog new tricks.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Lynn,

If you don''t mind me asking ... What are the stats on your perfection of a diamond? It is OUTSTANDING!!

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 11/25/2007 4:31:24 PM
Author: Sparkalicious
Lynn,

If you don''t mind me asking ... What are the stats on your perfection of a diamond? It is OUTSTANDING!!

*Blushing modestly*

Thanks, Sparkalicious! Why, OF COURSE I don''t mind you asking! I am flattered and honored.

OK... here goes:

AGS-0 2.36RB J/SI2
8.68 x 8.70 x 5.26
Total depth: 60.5
Table: 55
Crown angle/depth: 34.4; 15.4
Pav angle/depth: 40.8; 43.1
HCA: EX/EX/EX/VG TIC 1.1

Have you seen my thread with 1,000 photos?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-gorgeous-new-fishtail-pave-set-from-wf.46129/

So, for me, the heart of the matter was this -- we are not wealthy people! We are a normal, middle class family with a home, kids, cars, cat, college, weddings, and all the other usual and necessary expenses of life. The "diamond budget" was only so big.

I have always loved diamonds, but honestly, never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that I would own such a large, gorgeous stone. My education here at PS taught me to put CUT first, and so I felt comfortable *dropping* color and clarity to get this size of stone... at a surprisingly affordable price. I don''t say I "compromised" or "sacrificed" (color or clarity), though, because believe me, there''s no hardship about it!

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 11/25/2007 5:19:05 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 11/25/2007 4:31:24 PM
Author: Sparkalicious
Lynn,

If you don''t mind me asking ... What are the stats on your perfection of a diamond? It is OUTSTANDING!!

*Blushing modestly*

Thanks, Sparkalicious! Why, OF COURSE I don''t mind you asking! I am flattered and honored.

OK... here goes:

AGS-0 2.36RB J/SI2
8.68 x 8.70 x 5.26
Total depth: 60.5
Table: 55
Crown angle/depth: 34.4; 15.4
Pav angle/depth: 40.8; 43.1
HCA: EX/EX/EX/VG TIC 1.1

Have you seen my thread with 1,000 photos?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-gorgeous-new-fishtail-pave-set-from-wf.46129/

So, for me, the heart of the matter was this -- we are not wealthy people! We are a normal, middle class family with a home, kids, cars, cat, college, weddings, and all the other usual and necessary expenses of life. The ''diamond budget'' was only so big.

I have always loved diamonds, but honestly, never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that I would own such a large, gorgeous stone. My education here at PS taught me to put CUT first, and so I felt comfortable *dropping* color and clarity to get this size of stone... at a surprisingly affordable price. I don''t say I ''compromised'' or ''sacrificed'' (color or clarity), though, because believe me, there''s no hardship about it!

Absolutely incredible! Excuse me ... I have to step away from the computer to take care of my drooling situation. Congrats on having such a beautiful diamond ring. Thanks for sharing!!!!! I can''t wait until I have mine to share with everyone!!

 

[burnside]

tulip928, nice pictures of the royal! Do you have pictures from other angles including the top?

 

[burnside]

The priorities are stone over setting. Cut, then size, then color.

 

[burnside]

A couple others I am eyeing:

0.91 Carat H-SI2 Ideal $3480
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1111640.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.91
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: SI2
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.0%
Table: 55.6%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Neglible
Measurements: 6.20*6.25*3.85

Crown Angle: 34.9°
Crown %: 15.50
pavilion Angle: 40.8°
pavilion %: 43.00




0.91 Carat J-VS1 Ideal $3160
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-938853.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
Carat weight: 0.91
Cut: Ideal
Color: J
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 55.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.20*6.25*3.87

Crown Angle: 36.0°
Crown %: 16.00
pavilion Angle: 40.8°
pavilion %: 43.00

 

[tulip928]

here you go

 

[tulip928]

here''s a pic of the ring with a band

 

[gailrmv]

I know less about diamonds than many people here but I am bit of a setting connosier (sp?) I wouldn''t get one off ebay personally. I would get the Vatche (either one) if you are sure she likes this style for her forever- or nearly-forever setting. I have the x prong and can attest to its high quality. If you think she will change settings or if you want to spend less, I would get the simple 4 prong mounting, usually about $200, from the same vendor where you buy the diamond.