Financial planner for elderly parents

[CJ2008]

Tomorrow I have appointments (complimentary) with 2 different financial planners/advisors. I may set up an appointment with a third one to have 3 to compare.

I've already verified that they're certified, they don't have any disciplinary actions against them, etc. Both of them are fee-only, which is what I want.

Aside from whether I feel comfortable with them/like them (which I'll find out tomorrow) - what else would you ask or look for? What should I look out for?

One advisor is asking for quite a bit of information (not the documents per se, although they encourage you to bring them if you have a specific area of concern, but financial information) - which on the one hand I really like, but on the other hand what if I end up not liking them when I meet them? I tend to be super private and need to absorb things before making decisions, but this sometimes works against me (e.g., the person may not want to meet with me unless I provide all the info. Or, I may not get an as in-depth meeting and not be able to really judge whether I like how the CFP advises, his/her style, explanations, etc.) So would you just provide whatever information was asked for this initial meeting?

 

[movie zombie]

imo, no point in wasting your and their time showing up for a meeting without the necessary info/docs with which to assist that person in helping you. you are asking for an opinion and/or help and that person can only talk in generalities if not given the docs.

 

[azstonie]

Mo Zo x2.

Also, YOU can do all this leg work and your parents will thank you and continue on down the road of their choice. People don't value what they don't pay for or receive effortlessly.

Anyway, In my experience, these first sessions are introductory and will offer few specifics.

If you are going to spend your time and your money for expert evaluation, you would start with a lawyer to determine what you and DH are willing to do and when you would be willing to do it.

Geriatric social worker time. Your parents aren't handling reality any more when it comes to their finances and expectations of their family (you). Geriatric social workers work with that issue every day with their clients.

 

[movie zombie]

i'd also add that you going to a financial planner for your parents is not useful unless they are going as well.

did they ask you to make these appointments?
did they ask you to attend the meetings with them?
if so, great progress has been made.

if not, well, it is their records and documents you are sharing and do you have permission to do that?
have you asked them to go with you?
are they aware of these appointments?

 

[CJ2008]

i'd also add that you going to a financial planner for your parents is not useful unless they are going as well.

did they ask you to make these appointments?
did they ask you to attend the meetings with them?
if so, great progress has been made.

if not, well, it is their records and documents you are sharing and do you have permission to do that?
have you asked them to go with you?
are they aware of these appointments?

I'll address the rest of the posts a bit later, but saw this and wanted to respond immediately.

Excellent, excellent points, MZ.

No. They do not know I have these appointments.

What I was hoping would happen is that out of the 3 1 of them would really stand out to me, and then I would be able to go to them with something like "we need help. I've met 3 financial advisors and I really liked Mr. or Mrs. x. So I'd like you to go with me to meet them and see what you think." ETA: although this would be kind of tricky because the second appointment would NOT be free. But perhaps the advisor might be willing to make it a very short meet and greet if I explain the situation.

Or something along those lines.

Also - what I was planning on bringing them tomorrow is a worsksheet I put together with the information I know - debts, credit card balances and APRs, income - to give the advisor a general picture. Because really, tomorrow I'm just looking for the chemistry and some general advice...and perhaps confirmation that yes, they're in trouble. I think all this would help me with my initial conversation with them as far ideas and paths we can take with that money and who can help.

But still - yeah...I still know what you mean and I'm pausing now...perhaps I could just let them know I'll be going to speak with someone. Maybe I can tell them it's for my own finances (which frankly, I HAVE been considering) and that in the process I'm going to see if I like them for them, and would it be OK for me to give them an idea of their situation.

I don't know if this matters or not - but my parents are not at all wired like me - researching, planning, details. They're very relaxed about contracts, money, etc. (which drives me crazy). All throughout my much younger years I know they've lent out 10s of thousands of dollars that they never got paid back. That also drove me crazy to the point that I told them not to tell me about their loans any more because I worried more than they did. So they have a much more relaxed attitude than me in every way. So I do not at all think for a minute that they would object for me to give these people a picture of their financial information without asking them first. HOWEVER - perhaps they don't trust me 100% like they used to because they now think there's SELF interest - where before it was so far away from there being a problem they KNEW this was for THEM.

 

[azstonie]

its possible their relaxed attitude about money has come from their expectation that you will pay for any shortfalls they would have.

Re your propensity for details and planning and your parents avoidance of it: Any shrink would tell you that your parents "parentified" you to be this way and particularly to be this way for THEM/their benefit.

Why not live large/outside your means, when the chips are down, the child you have raised to come through for you, *will* come through for you?

I wish you well and I've said enough stuff here that could offend you and I definitely don't want to add anything negative onto the burden you've got going. You're a few years behind me as far as parent issues go, that's the only reason I'm chiming in here. Trying to save you some of the years of baloney my husband and I have endured.

 

[VRBeauty]

I'm going to be blunt - I think you're going about this the wrong way. You want to have a money talk with your parents - so do that. Tell them about your concerns, and why you're concerned. Let them know that you and your husband are not in a position to bail them out. Ask them if they'd be open to your helping them find a financial advisor or putting together a more realistic budget - and see where that takes you.

They're not going to appreciate what you have to say, but they won't appreciate your meeting with a financial advisor on their behalf without their permission either. If you address the issue directly you at least have the possibility of building trust. If you try to game them into this there's the possibility that they'll shut you out entirely.

 

[CJ2008]

its possible their relaxed attitude about money has come from their expectation that you will pay for any shortfalls they would have.

Re your propensity for details and planning and your parents avoidance of it: Any shrink would tell you that your parents "parentified" you to be this way and particularly to be this way for THEM/their benefit.

Why not live large/outside your means, when the chips are down, the child you have raised to come through for you, *will* come through for you?

I wish you well and I've said enough stuff here that could offend you and I definitely don't want to add anything negative onto the burden you've got going. You're a few years behind me as far as parent issues go, that's the only reason I'm chiming in here. Trying to save you some of the years of baloney my husband and I have endured.

azstonie you have not offended me at all.

If anything I'm just so curious and almost like flabbergasted that maybe you guys are seeing beyond what I see (even though obviously I see SOME things).

I guess my idea of my parents is that they're really nice people, they're generous with others (to a fault, like I pointed out) and have always been very generous with us (until when *I* cut them off from giving me money or paying for me for dinner or any of those kinds of things) so it's hard/weird for me to think that there may have been any malicious intnent on their part or that they planned this. I think had things turned out like they THOUGHT they were going to we would have inherited their apartment, paid off, plus had their life insurance, etc. This whole time I always felt they did the right thing. But I realize that what was really happening was things were in fact going completely the OPPOSITE way and at some point they became OK with that and - at least in my mother's view - oh well (although perhaps my dad's comments about how we can do this and that is not so innocent either)

What's really funny azsotnie is that my whole family pretty much makes fun of me for my overly analytical planning overcautious nature. Yet they call on me when they need things done. And yet they forget that me asking the questions I am asking now are the kinds of things I have ALWAYS done. But suddenly I must do it because I WANT something out of it. And I know it didn't sit well with them at all that I asked so many questions when they asked us to lend them money - again, even though they know how I am with money. One of the very first things my mother told me when they came into the money when I told them we should talk was "oh we have your money." When that wasn't at all what I was talking about but to put a plan in action. But that was her passive aggressive way of saying "I know that's all you care about."

Again I have more to address - from the other thread, from here too (marymm's words have also stuck in my brain) - but I'm short on time so I'll do that later.

 

[CJ2008]

I'm going to be blunt - I think you're going about this the wrong way. You want to have a money talk with your parents - so do that. Tell them about your concerns, and why you're concerned. Let them know that you and your husband are not in a position to bail them out. Ask them if they'd be open to your helping them find a financial advisor or putting together a more realistic budget - and see where that takes you.

They're not going to appreciate what you have to say, but they won't appreciate your meeting with a financial advisor on their behalf without their permission either. If you address the issue directly you at least have the possibility of building trust. If you try to game them into this there's the possibility that they'll shut you out entirely.

Bluntness accepted.

I hear you.

I HAVE had a conversation with them about their finances. It was after they asked us for that loan. I felt them needing to borrow from us gave me the perfect opportunity to address the whole financial picture. I told them that I had put together a spreadsheet for myself / DH and that I wanted to do the same for them so they could see in black and white what the situation truly is (again they couldn't understand why all the concern about them asking to borrow money). They weren't enthusiastic about it - again it seems like lately things were fairly easy for us to talk about are now hard - but they did say OK, and that's how I got all the information from them that I got (although I did notice my mother did leave out some accounts).

So they've allowed me to open the door - slightly - but it IS open. And I DID mention to them several times that we might need help, etc.

So it will not at all come out of left field for me to tell them that I did the legwork to find someone.

Although - don't get me wrong - you guys are giving me serious pause. I have a feeling in my gut that you guys are probably right this may not be the IDEAL approach.

It's just that I'm so overwhelmed VR. I want to keep things moving. I'm scared they're going to misuse that money or make a bad decision they don't have to make. I want to have something to THELL THEM when I see them. I want to feel somewhat organized with my thoughts which I'm hoping I might feel once DH and I get some general advice from one of these advisors.

 

[azstonie]

Roles in families are interesting.

From your posts, you are the problem solver, the thinker, the one who analyzes and prioritizes. They ridicule that but they also want the benefits of it.

Also, deep down, you learned that you have to make yourself safe, they could not be relied upon to do that. Therefore, you learned to be vigilant, solve problems, think, look down the road, analyze, etc.

I saw a lot of grandiose behavior from my parents over the years when it came to dining out tabs, expensive bottles of wine brought to dinner at my house, that kind of thing. In my opinion and the opinion of my therapist, this was their attempt to cover up the larger truth at hand: They would never 'come through' on any of the real events in life that require money. In your case, it would be to cover up the truth that they were planning to land on you for their retirement needs.

 

[Lulie]

Caring for the elderly is never easy and often ignored
Your parents might be a little scared to share their finances 100% with you; I know my Dad was ashamed of their crazy expenses after my mother's passing.

I'll tell you that a frank/kind conversation with your parents soon might prevent a future crisis. I would not do anything behind their backs after the meeting. My Dad came around when we explained to him that there may come a time when he will need assistance like my mother did...it wasn't cheap!
Your financial counselor needs all info to figure out debt/income. Inflation is hitting harder on elderly with fixed incomes than the rest of population because the costs of basics like medicine and food rose higher than SS payments. So yes, numbers on docs are necessary...
If, [long if] they are willing to accept your help, make sure that all living costs are covered. You do not want your parents skipping a meal or pill in the future. Best of Luck!

 

[marymm]

OP - I think you are running in circles here. Nothing the financial professionals tell you will arm you with magic new information that will make your parents face their situation. I think it is a waste of your time (and the professionals' time) to meet with them if your parents are not there. And if your parents want to consult financial professionals, *they* are the ones who need to feel comfortable with the professional, not you. Finally IMHO sharing their financials without their consent is not the right way to go.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Unfortunately, you cannot take on this burden without them. Regardless of what advice a financial planner might give, it's useless unless they are interested in getting on board and taking the advice. I would tell them I'd found someone to help them sort things out but they need to accompany you to the appointment.

I understand your concern and your desire to help them straighten things out and make better decisions. You just can't solve this problem solely on your own. They have asked for a loan but it sounds more like it could be robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think they probably have deeper problems than a loan can solve. You probably don't have a completely accurate picture of their finances and I could not or would not be throwing more money into that ring.

Talk to them and ask them to go to the appointment with you. I think that's the prudent first step. I hope they are willing to cooperate with you!

 

[movie zombie]

Unfortunately, you cannot take on this burden without them. Regardless of what advice a financial planner might give, it's useless unless they are interested in getting on board and taking the advice. I would tell them I'd found someone to help them sort things out but they need to accompany you to the appointment.

I understand your concern and your desire to help them straighten things out and make better decisions. You just can't solve this problem solely on your own. They have asked for a loan but it sounds more like it could be robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think they probably have deeper problems than a loan can solve. You probably don't have a completely accurate picture of their finances and I could not or would not be throwing more money into that ring.

Talk to them and ask them to go to the appointment with you. I think that's the prudent first step. I hope they are willing to cooperate with you!

if they refuse to go to the appointment it is time for you to face reality.

 

[Sky56]

Another idea is to use someone who comes highly recommended by someone you know. Someone with a good track record for being honest, reliable and personally pleasant.

 

[CJ2008]

I can't respond to everyone indiividually right now but based on your comments I've come to realize that going to the CFP by myself may have have been partly a way of avoiding the real step of talking more seriously with them and/or asking them to come with me. And even if there was no avoidance going on and all the other reasons had weight to them I see that the way I was going to go about it may not be ideal for what I'm trying to accomplish.

So I may either reschedule or actually work up the guts to ask my parents what they're doing tomorrow and seeing if they want to go.

DH was going to go with me tomorrow - would it be a good idea for him to be at the appointment with us, whether it's tomorrow or next week? So far when we've discussed money it's been me an my parents - we both kind of had this feeling (him a little more than me) that maybe it would be better if and they would feel more comfortable if it was just me and them. But part of me wants him there - I have this feeling him being there may help me stay more calm/less reactive...not sure - maybe it would work the other way. I do think i'd like to get his feedback and perspective though...both on the advisor and on my parents' demeanor and behavior.

 

[movie zombie]

CJ, I must admit that I have the utmost respect for you for 1-posting about this in the first place and 2-for taking our opinions as a base point to check your own thoughts and actions. many including myself could easily become defensive.

I see your point re not having your hubby go.
however, you and your husband are in this together. when it was time to discuss things with my parents my husband was there as well. i think a united front is better than putting yourself into a position of divided and possibly conquered.

your parents are asking you to do something that is against the best interests of you and your husband's financial goals, best interests of your marriage, etc. so, yes, i think he should be there.

if your parents aren't comfortable, well, i don't know. i almost think because they are the ones with the financial problems and thinking the answer is a simply we'll get $ from our daughter that they need to accept him there or attend on their own.

what they are wanting is for you to place them first before your own goals and your husband. perhaps they simply need to hear you with him present say that you won't do that, literally, "i understand you have financial problems. but i will not jeopardize my own goals and my marriage any longer/further. here is the name and contact info for a financial planner. if you choose to go and want me there, I'm willing and so is Mr CJ to be there. however, if you decide not to go know that i will not be available to talk about your financial situation and will hang up the phone or leave if you insist on doing so in my presence." or perhaps writing something to that effect would also work?

perhaps you can write down your thoughts other than here as to what you want to say to them and what you want them to understand. and then maybe you can mail it to them. sounds cold? well, i think you have to put yourself first and i think you have been primed for guilt for so long that you have every right to be intimidated about saying things to them in person.

 

[CJ2008]

CJ, I must admit that I have the utmost respect for you for 1-posting about this in the first place and 2-for taking our opinions as a base point to check your own thoughts and actions. many including myself could easily become defensive.

I see your point re not having your hubby go.
however, you and your husband are in this together. when it was time to discuss things with my parents my husband was there as well. i think a united front is better than putting yourself into a position of divided and possibly conquered.

your parents are asking you to do something that is against the best interests of you and your husband's financial goals, best interests of your marriage, etc. so, yes, i think he should be there.

if your parents aren't comfortable, well, i don't know. i almost think because they are the ones with the financial problems and thinking the answer is a simply we'll get $ from our daughter that they need to accept him there or attend on their own.

what they are wanting is for you to place them first before your own goals and your husband. perhaps they simply need to hear you with him present say that you won't do that, literally, "i understand you have financial problems. but i will not jeopardize my own goals and my marriage any longer/further. here is the name and contact info for a financial planner. if you choose to go and want me there, I'm willing and so is Mr CJ to be there. however, if you decide not to go know that i will not be available to talk about your financial situation and will hang up the phone or leave if you insist on doing so in my presence." or perhaps writing something to that effect would also work?

perhaps you can write down your thoughts other than here as to what you want to say to them and what you want them to understand. and then maybe you can mail it to them. sounds cold? well, i think you have to put yourself first and i think you have been primed for guilt for so long that you have every right to be intimidated about saying things to them in person.

MZ - when I post here looking for advice it is because I truly want to hear all perspectives.

Sometimes those different perspectives will make sense, or they won't, based on what I know my realities to be, or they will hit on something in some way that gives me pause or makes me see things a little differently.

In this case, even though my original path of telling my parents about the advisor after the fact COULD have led me to where I need to get to - and even perhaps gotten me there just fine - because I know my own family reality, etc. I realized that path is going around the "long way." Plus, I *know* I am dreading this whole situation and I could *see* how even though my original way was moving forward (the vetting of financial advisors) it was helping me avoid the REAL step of having them involved and speaking to them. And I saw other advantages to having them involved in that first meeting and realized that perhaps having them involved in that first meeting may even be LESS intimidating because really, all I have to do ask is ask them "how about we go see a financial advisor?" (I need to think through exactly how I'll present it).

All that said - I will speak to DH and get his take on both paths - since of course he knows the family dynamic, etc.

But my gut tells me the sooner I get them involved the better and the sooner we will be able to discover where things really stand - including going deeper into my parents' attitudes and behaviors.

I think my objective here is to PERSUADE them to do what they NEED AND SHOULD do - if I can do that, we all win. So whichever way is going to build the most trust and get us there quicker is that path *I NEED* to take. As much as I'm dreading everything about it.

One thing I want to make clear - the money that they just came into will allow them to pay me and DH the $ they borrowed a couple of months back. So they're not "asking" for anything. *I* am looking ahead and realizing that if they don't manage this money that just came in - that if we don't make smart/INFORMED decisions about the debts, expenses, etc. - it's not EVEN going to last the 2-3 years it COULD last. And talking NOW about what's going to happen in 2-3 years will at least not allow my parents to be careless with that money without understanding that everything they do or not do is going to affect their children negatively. The one thing I don't want to allow them to do is mismanage and misspend without that awareness being out and clear and in the open.

What's scary is that we have a just as a bad, if not worse, situation from DH's side. And his parents are not even 25% as "cooperative" as mine as far as sharing what their expenses are etc. (he's offered to put a budget together for them many a times). And if you think *I* play the role of planner in my family, you should see his role. Total savior. Total carrying on his shoulders all of their problems for many many years. And I think when the day comes he won't be as "cold" and logical as me - he will help. He will move heaven and earth. He will lend. So this brings us to a WHOLE OTHER set of landmines: and that is DH and I coming to an agreement about what's acceptable and what's not. Add to that equation the fact that I think he's so much nicer than me and feeling guilt about that every day of my life and it does not make for an easy ride.

And yes, I have been doing a lot of research and reading into HOW to talk to elderly parents and I have been writing down my thoughts because I *know* I need to be prepared - so I have, I kid you not - a page broken down into things like "what is my main goal for this conversation?" and "what things might they say that might set me off/make me react?" etc. It's the only way I can even begin to process the landmines I will have to step over with this whole scary situation. And I keep using *I* because as much as i love my sibling - she's dead weight. Good heart, but dead weight when it comes to these kinds of things. Although because of that heart she would be MUCH more willing to take my parents in to her home - she is much more "giving" that way (or she was at one time, lately she's gotten some new interests and seems very disconnected in general). But perhaps those are the "roles" that each of us will play and perhaps neither role is less valuable than the other (believe me, better her than me taking them in.) That doesn't mean that I will not involve her in this whole thing, and soon - but I don't expect any real contributions from her as far as planning and research.

ETA - thank you, MZ - thank you all - for taking the time to give me your thoughts and perspectives.

 

[movie zombie]

CJ, thank you for your last post.....you're really going about this in the right way.
great post and good role model for us all.

perhaps this has come about now so that you and your husband can get on the same page re his parents as well.

you are right that it is a good time to get your loan $ back....but even more importantly it is a good time to let them know they need this windfall to last for years and that you will not be loaning them $ if they don't manage it and make it last.

again, I think your post shows planning combined with determination and serves as a good plan for moving forward.

 

[CJ2008]

Thaks MZ. I read your post soon after you posted it and it brought me comfort to read it. Thank you.

I just wanted to post a quick update.

DH and I met with the financial advisor, but for US. We brought up the parent issue/situation as an aside/factor, but we zoomed in on our own situation (we've been wanting to find someone to advise us for a while as well).

I just had a conversation with my mom and I asked her about going to a free consultation with this advisor, that we met with her last week for our own finances and that we liked her (we did). She was resistant, saying things like "but why? but we owe is what we owe nobody can change that" and "we always tried to do things the right way to not bother you guys" and "how much is this going to cost" - but eventually she said she'd be open to it, but she was adamant that the person be closer physically to them. Which sucks, because now I have to start my search all over, and I really liked this advisor, and because truly I am sure I'd do doing most of the legwork, but I could also understand her point.

In the same conversation, she also told me she's having a party to celebrate the coming of this $ (it's 30 people, that they're going to be paying for - granted, it's at a friend's restaurant so I am sure it will be discounted, but still...frankly, I don't even want to go) that they're going to get their AC fixed ($4,000 - not that I would expect them to live without AC of course - they problem is they called only one company so they have no idea if that is a good/fair quote - she resisted my idea of getting a quote, saying that she trusted that company because it's the same one that worked on her friend's AC. Which may have weight, but still). To me, all classic signs of seeing a balance in the bank and suddenly thinking you have money and don't need to worry about how you spend it.

My niece's sweet 16 is coming up and I have heard my mother tell my sister several times (before they came into this money) - how they wish they could help with the party's expenses if they could. I am really really afraid my parents will now offer to pay for half or something and my sister will accept. I just don't know which side of this fence I need to be on - is it "advising" my parents not to offer, that they can't/shouldn't? or is it "warning" or having a conversation with my sister not to take that $ if they offer it?

I wish I could hold that money for them - it is really unnerving to have no control over how they spend it. I wish they would trust me to hold it for them. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all these conversations I'm having with them and her agreeing to go to an advisor will start to set things off in the right direction. But it is nerve wracking.

 

[MarionC]

I've read this with interest, having been through it.
How old are your parents, if I may ask?

 

[CJ2008]

Also thank you...

Lulie, Sky, marymm, azstonie...

All of you.

It's because of your words that I ended up not going to the advisor on THEIR behalf.

It forced me to have another conversation with my mother sooner rather than later. The same things come up each time "but why do we need to do this" etc. But the sooner these things are out in the open the better.

Thanks.

 

[CJ2008]

I've read this with interest, having been through it.
How old are your parents, if I may ask?

Mid 70s Jimmianne.

Why?

Are you seeing a different perspective? Having been through it yourself I'd love to hear any thoughts you can offer.

 

[movie zombie]

sounds like your mother doesn't "get it" that this $ is going to have to last.......perhaps a blunt "once it is gone mom, it is gone and you won't get another dime from me" is needed.

perhaps a complete backing away and letting the chips fall where they may.

perhaps in trying to help them you've become an enabler.

perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

how about seeing a counselor on how to handle your mother/parents?

again, highly recommend the Toxic Parents book.

you can want what you want for them.
you can try and help them all you want.
but unless they want it too, well, you're spinning your wheels.
until they know they have a problem they don't have a problem.
the only thing is that you've got be ready to take the hard line and not bail them out.
if you're not ready to do that you're going to keep on trying to fix them.
the reality is you only have control over yourself.

and I still think you're trying to do things in a prepared and educated manner!
I just don't think your mother and/or parents want to be prepared to be responsible for themselves.
and another perhaps: time to just tell them that.

sigh.

good luck!

 

[MarionC]

I've read this with interest, having been through it.
How old are your parents, if I may ask?

Mid 70s Jimmianne.

Why?

Are you seeing a different perspective? Having been through it yourself I'd love to hear any thoughts you can offer.

More bluntness, I'm afraid.

I asked because 70's seems awfully young to be taking over their finances. I agree they should talk to someone but unless you have power of attorney it's really up to them. Unless they owe you money - you do need to get that back - they are adults and it's their life.
I don't think they are toxic - I think you are paying too much attention to what they are doing.

 

[CJ2008]

sounds like your mother doesn't "get it" that this $ is going to have to last.......perhaps a blunt "once it is gone mom, it is gone and you won't get another dime from me" is needed.

perhaps a complete backing away and letting the chips fall where they may.

perhaps in trying to help them you've become an enabler.

perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

how about seeing a counselor on how to handle your mother/parents?

again, highly recommend the Toxic Parents book.

you can want what you want for them.
you can try and help them all you want.
but unless they want it too, well, you're spinning your wheels.
until they know they have a problem they don't have a problem.
the only thing is that you've got be ready to take the hard line and not bail them out.
if you're not ready to do that you're going to keep on trying to fix them.
the reality is you only have control over yourself.

and I still think you're trying to do things in a prepared and educated manner!
I just don't think your mother and/or parents want to be prepared to be responsible for themselves.
and another perhaps: time to just tell them that. [/b]

sigh.

good luck!

So based on what I'm sharing here you'd say my parents are toxic.

Wow.

I find this fascinating. Only because I guess I thought toxic parents would be like really bad horrible parents. Like verbally abusive, etc.

But what I'm thinking is that there are different ways and levels of toxic behavior, and this could be one them. Maybe the most dangerous kind, because it's way more subtle.

I'm going to go to Amazon.com and purchase the Toxic Parents book.

I did kind of say to my mom today "this money is going to run out, and what then?" But I haven't worked myself up to say "and that's it, we're not going to help if you don't manage what you DO have the right way." I know I need to get there.

Sigh is right.

Thanks MZ. I appreciate you keep posting and answering me even though I am sure from the outside you see I'm running around in circles!

ETA: MZ there are 2 books: Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward and Craig Buck (Jan 2, 2002) and Toxic Parents Ultimate Guide: Surviving Narcissistic Parents by Katie Lenhart (Feb 2, 2014) - I'm thinking you meean the one by Forward/Buck but let me know.

 

[CJ2008]

double post

 

[CJ2008]

I've read this with interest, having been through it.
How old are your parents, if I may ask?

Mid 70s Jimmianne.

Why?

Are you seeing a different perspective? Having been through it yourself I'd love to hear any thoughts you can offer.

More bluntness, I'm afraid.

I asked because 70's seems awfully young to be taking over their finances. I agree they should talk to someone but unless you have power of attorney it's really up to them. Unless they owe you money - you do need to get that back - they are adults and it's their life.
I don't think they are toxic - I think you are paying too much attention to what they are doing.

I don't want to take over their finances. Not in the way I think you're thinking. I WISH they would say to me - "here's the money we have, can you help us manage it so we can make the most of it." The only reason for wanting a POA now is because they are still healthy and mentally capable and I don't want to wait until either one of them - or both - aren't. But I of course would not use it in any way shape or form without their consent or full knowledge. ETA: same with financial advisor. What I am HOPING is that hearing what the situation is from a third party will make them more aware. But I do realize it's up to them. We could go to a financial advisor, pay them, and then they do nothing that was advised.

You're probably right that I'm paying too much attention. It feels that way sometimes. It feels wrong to not want them to throw themselves a party. They're adults. They're still young and energetic (well, my mom much more than my dad). But I'm scared. And I don't want any surprises. I want them to pay attention to what they're doing.

As far as the money they owe, yes, they paid it back. I knew they would as soon as they had it.

 

[ruby59]

I've read this with interest, having been through it.
How old are your parents, if I may ask?

Mid 70s Jimmianne.

Why?

Are you seeing a different perspective? Having been through it yourself I'd love to hear any thoughts you can offer.

More bluntness, I'm afraid.

I asked because 70's seems awfully young to be taking over their finances. I agree they should talk to someone but unless you have power of attorney it's really up to them. Unless they owe you money - you do need to get that back - they are adults and it's their life.
I don't think they are toxic - I think you are paying too much attention to what they are doing.

Actually, 70s is not that young and sometimes cr*p happens. If you knew for sure that your parents had their finances all worked out and were not going to involve you then I agree to stay out of it.

But if they are coming to you for help or know they will in the future, I see the need to be proactive.

My mom protected her finances like some seniors protect their car keys. She wanted to handle it all herself and resented questions about it. Then one day at age 78 she layed down for a nap. When she woke up she could barely speak and by the grace of G-d was able to call me and make some kind of sound into the phone. She had suffered a stroke. It was in her left frontal lobe, which affected speech. Dementia soon followed.

My brother worked long hours and traveled a lot on business, so it fell to me. The medical bills were mounting, other bills need to be paid and I did not have a clue to where she kept the checkbook, what her savings were like in case she needed long term care or what kind of medical coverage she had.

Getting a power of attorney was hard because it was difficult to prove she was of enough sound mind and body to sign off on it. It became a nightmare tring to sort things out.

So, imo, it is not to early for the talk. And you have to be honest with mom or dad that if they expect you to get involved down the road, then they have to allow you the ability to act in their best interest and yours.

 

[Sky56]

I never heard of the "Toxic Parents" book before, but I read "Toxic People" many years ago. It's a fun, easy-to-read book and it has chapters on every flavor of jerk that exists: their hurtful methods and how you can deal with them effectively.

It's probably the best psychology-oriented book I ever read. I don't have much to say about "toxic parents" because my parents were good, loving parents who just happened to make a few big and small mistakes as most parents do. So they weren't toxic...but "toxic" or to use a less strong term, "difficult" people, are best avoided or have minimal contact with for one's own protection.