FI keeps stressing over his brother''s marriage...

[trillionaire]

I really don''t know what to do or say, but this has been a reoccuring issue.

FBIL and FI play video games together in the evenings, and chat while doing so. They don''t talk on the phone as often as they game together, so this is a primary means of communication. It began as complaints about how FBIL''s wife didn''t like him playing video games, wouldn''t let him play and would fuss at him about it, all the while she is sitting around watching hours of TV. FBIL is currently unemployed, is staying home and taking care of his 3mo old daughter, and 7 yr old son, and has applied for police academy. He says that his wife is no longer affectionate with him, no hugs or kisses, and if he tries, she pushes him away, fusses at him constantly, and that he can''t wait for police academy so that he can get out of the house for a few weeks (it''s a live in program). It could be that they are having a rough adjustment to the new baby, but it sounds to me like these are old issues, not new ones, and they have had a pretty rough time with the 7 yr old already, prior to the new baby.

Now, no one was really that thrilled about the two of them getting married in the first place, so FI is partially feeling like "I told you so," but moreso, just wants his brother to be happy. FI is the type that stresses a lot over his family, and he is very protective of them, so this is making him really frustrated and upset. He doesn''t want to take sides, so he has been telling his brother to talk to his wife about these issues, but they don''t seem to be getting resolved. He offers helpful suggestions, but doesn''t tell his brother that his is right and that the wife is wrong. The couple was in counselling for relationship issues before they got married, and I believe that they are going again, and have been for some time. They celebrated their first anniversary in July. On one-hand, FI kind of doesn''t want to hear about it anymore, but on the other hand, he wants to be there for his brother. It''s scary to him that they are going to counseling and still not making progress. In my experience, FBIL''s wife is very combatitve, argumentative and berating, even in front of FBIL''s family, so I have no idea what he''s really going through, but I am pretty sure she''s not making it easy. It takes two people to make things work. FBIL is in many ways similiar to FI, in that they are both easy going. Sigh, what a sucky situation.

it''s really frustrating, because neither of us know what to do or say at this point. It would be nice from people who have been in a similiar situations...

 

[tlh]

I am not going through a similar situation, but I just wanted to extend out some hugs. I know this must be tough for your FI and his bro. I''m sad to read that the counselling is NOT working, after only a year of marriage. Often times though frustrations with ones self, are often taken out on others, and tend to be the root of the problem.

My Dh''s best friend had a live in girlfriend. He got laid off, and she became just like the FSIL. Eventually they just gave up, and broke up. It was very combative and awful, and unfortunately they are stuck in a lease together, so they are trying to make the best out of their living situation. She was not very understanding how hard it was to get a job after being laid off, as he worked in a very specific industry which didn''t paly well into the economy... her lack of empathy and support broke them up. However, he was depressed and wasn''t doing much for himself OR her... even helping out around the house. She viewed his playing video games, as doing nothing to improve the situation and it angered her - he used it as an escape from his cr@ppy reality. They couldn''t see eye to eye.. and it didn''t work.

With my Dh''s friend, it wasn''t just her being awful, or him being lazy... but the things they did to cope with a less than ideal situation was not very healthy. I''m hoping that your FBIL and FSIL can use the therapy as a tool to get them into a healthier place where they are able to see things from the other''s perspective or dissolve things amiccably so that their children don''t have to see such negativity as their role models.

(((HUGS)))

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/29/2009 3:37:40 PM
Author: tlh
I am not going through a similar situation, but I just wanted to extend out some hugs. I know this must be tough for your FI and his bro. I'm sad to read that the counselling is NOT working, after only a year of marriage. Often times though frustrations with ones self, are often taken out on others, and tend to be the root of the problem.

My Dh's best friend had a live in girlfriend. He got laid off, and she became just like the FSIL. Eventually they just gave up, and broke up. It was very combative and awful, and unfortunately they are stuck in a lease together, so they are trying to make the best out of their living situation. She was not very understanding how hard it was to get a job after being laid off, as he worked in a very specific industry which didn't paly well into the economy... her lack of empathy and support broke them up. However, he was depressed and wasn't doing much for himself OR her... even helping out around the house. She viewed his playing video games, as doing nothing to improve the situation and it angered her - he used it as an escape from his cr@ppy reality. They couldn't see eye to eye.. and it didn't work.

With my Dh's friend, it wasn't just her being awful, or him being lazy... but the things they did to cope with a less than ideal situation was not very healthy. I'm hoping that your FBIL and FSIL can use the therapy as a tool to get them into a healthier place where they are able to see things from the other's perspective or dissolve things amiccably so that their children don't have to see such negativity as their role models.

(((HUGS)))

I agree with your analysis 100%, and think that this is a contributing factor, but at this point, he has done everything to enroll in the police academy, and is just waiting for the background check to clear, and they will give him a starting date. He has had a hard time getting a job, but he didn't finish his bachelors degree (probably needs 3-5 more classes), and now that he is married with two kids, it's harder to go back. In addition, he was laid off partially because of issues with him bringing the 7yr old to work and leaving work to pick him up because he was acting out in school and was being sent home. And yes, if she is upset or resentful, it can contribute to withholding affection, but she is not a warm and affectionate person by nature. As I mentioned before, she has always been pretty harsh and combative. When my family met her, they were quite alarmed by her behavior and interactions with FBIL, and they have only gotten more severe over time, from what I have witnessed.

It's frustrating, but not really new. They broke up a few times while dating... and when he proposed, he didn't even tell his family. I found out on facebook, and told FI, and it took several days for FI to convince FBIL to tell his family... which he did via email.

He did that, because he knew everyone would question the decision, and he didn't want to hear it.

Doesn't sound good, huh?

 

[fieryred33143]

What''s her side of the story?

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I agree with tlh--I can actually see both sides of the picture. He feels nagged and probably doesn''t even WANT to be around her at this point because she''s not pleasant. Meanwhile he''s unemployed and off playing video games--not exactly filling the husband/father/partner role to the best of his ability in that regard.

The things is, it doesn''t seem like it''s that big of an issue to clear up...if they could just talk about it and put the other person first. If she were putting him first, she''d realize that he''s probably not feeling his best right now (unemployed) and may even be depressed...thus using the video games as an escape. And if he were putting her first, he''d realize that she''s frustrated because her husband and father of her children is essentially leading the life of a teeneger (not working, playing video games, etc.). I''d argue that they''re both being a little stubborn and selfish...it''s unfortunate that they''re taking it out on each other instead of turning towards each other.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:00:34 PM
Author: fiery
What''s her side of the story?

I have no idea what her side of the story is... I''d love to talk to her, but we aren''t that close, and I would have 0% interest in listening to her bash FBIL. They remind me of Jon and Kate. You know you aren''t getting the whole story, and he is very passive, and she is very aggressive.

I don''t even know the full ''story'' at this point, but the impressions that I have of her, being combatitve and argumentative are from my own personal experiences of her punching him in the arm (playfully, and not) and of her yelling at him repeatedly in front of his family in social situations. It was bad enough that it made ME uncomfortable, and FBIL really wasn''t doing anything wrong. She yelled at him for eating candy, for not giving her a blanket that he was already using, and for having fun with his family (he was dancing, and she fussed at him for not having fun and dancing at home). She says herself that she is harsh, and she is unapologetic about it. None of this is new behavior, though.


Having said that, FSIL and I get along fine, and I like her as a person. It''s hard to get to know her from 3K miles away, though. I''ve been actively trying to get to know her better, and was planning a girly day in December, for FSIL, FMIL and I to all hang out. So, she''s cool by me, but I am not married to her, either...

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:03:09 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
I agree with tlh--I can actually see both sides of the picture. He feels nagged and probably doesn't even WANT to be around her at this point because she's not pleasant. Meanwhile he's unemployed and off playing video games--not exactly filling the husband/father/partner role to the best of his ability in that regard.

The things is, it doesn't seem like it's that big of an issue to clear up...if they could just talk about it and put the other person first. If she were putting him first, she'd realize that he's probably not feeling his best right now (unemployed) and may even be depressed...thus using the video games as an escape. And if he were putting her first, he'd realize that she's frustrated because her husband and father of her children is essentially leading the life of a teeneger (not working, playing video games, etc.). I'd argue that they're both being a little stubborn and selfish...it's unfortunate that they're taking it out on each other instead of turning towards each other.

Agreed. They've had a rough year. After he lost his job, he was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, to he had to do radiation therapy and take some time to recoup. He IS at home playing video games, but he does have a job lined up, and certainly no one would criticize a mother who was staying home and taking care of an infant, so it's not like he is doing nothing, he is the primary care-giver! He picks the son up from school, takes him to practices, plays soccer dad, etc. Women do this, and are not criticized, so I don't see why he should be. He is getting unemployment payments now, but police academy should hopefully start in the coming weeks, which is good, but will also be an additional burden on his wife... she will be home alone with the kids, and they will have to pay for childcare expenses, which they are saving right now. They were both home while she was on maternity leave, but I don't know if that helped them or hurt them...

oh, and she complained about his video games while he was gainfully employed, too. (FWIW, FI plays video games all the time, too, and so does his dad, who is 45-47. This is something that their family loves, and they often play together, even their mom, occassionally...)

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Sorry, Trillionaire, it just sounds like a messy situation. My guess is that along the way they''ve lost respect for each other and nothing good comes out of that. I completely agree that he should not be faulted for being the primary care-giver--I think it''s great that the kids can stay with one parent as opposed to being in child care. Still, it sounds like she has some underlying resentment about the situation.

My sister is going through a divorce right now because she treats her husband poorly and in return, he avoids her. She gives him a hard time, he goes out with his friends after work instead of going home, this makes her mad and they fight about it all the time. It''s infuriating because the solution seems so easy to me: stop treating your husband like crap and he''d want to be around you. Make your husband feel loved and cared for and he''d probably go to the ends of the earth for you. They are both being immature about it, but it drives me nuts. I finally exploded the other day and told her that she doesn''t realize she''s being a pain in the bum. She just doesn''t "get it"--they''ll get divorced and she''ll always think that she did the best she could.

Do you feel like the drama with your FBIL and his wife affects your relatoinship? Sometimes after talking with my sister I get a bit depressed and it bothers me that it affects me so much.

 

[tlh]

what a stressful year for their family... a lot of changes, a new baby, a wedding, illness, and changing of jobs/unemployment... you look at a chart of life stressors, and all of those things rank pretty high.

Even though a new baby and a wedding should be pleasant, they are stressful... and when paired with negative things, like illness and the loss of a job - even when one is lined up... it can be a HUGE load to bear.

Sometimes we identifiy ourselves by our expected roles - and having to deal with being not only a mother/father (again) but also a new wife and husband... caregiver, nurturer, and head of household... can be really stressful.

She sounds like she isn''t the warmest of people, but I think that she is trying to deal with this in the best way she can, and unfortunately, doesn''t seem to be her strongest point. I used to work with a lady who was really rough around the edges - turns out, she was actually this HUGE softie, but she kept up these huge barriors because she was afraid of being judged, or if she let someone in... hurt. So she was like a cute porcupine... she bristled when things didn''t go her way, because that was her coping mechanism... but when she was around someone she trusted, the bristles were still there... just not in attack position.

I don''t have advice... just lots of hugs.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/29/2009 4:59:32 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady

Do you feel like the drama with your FBIL and his wife affects your relatoinship? Sometimes after talking with my sister I get a bit depressed and it bothers me that it affects me so much.

FI gets stressed out about their drama, but I haven''t noticed any negative backlash, only him saying that he hopes that I never start acting like her. He is very sensitive though, and it could potentially depress him a bit if they move towards divorce, or even if he has to listen to years of griping and complaining.

It''s his baby brother, after all...

I told FI that hearing about them did not in the least color my impression of our own relationship, and that we are different people in an entirely different situation. His family loves me, and I them, and my family loves FI, and he loves them too. We have been warmly embraced and encouraged throughout our relationship, and whatever confidence I feel about us is bolster by the loving support of our families. FI''s family wasn''t enthusiastic about FBIL''s marriage, or even the birth of their first grandchild. They were just not comfortable with the choices FBIL was making, but they have been supportive of him. (though they will express their discomfort about it to FI and I)

Ironically, I got FBIL/FSIL and FI and I copies of John Gottman''s Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work... I wonder if that would help them... it''s very insightful, if they would take the time to read it together...


Thank you so much NEL and TLH for your advice, insights and hugs! I''m sure the situation is far more complex that I could articulate, and I can only hope that they work at better interactions over time...

 

[Pandora II]

3 month old baby? I''m wondering if she might have PPD?

I know that when I''ve spent all day with a baby that won''t sleep during the day and has been up all night for day after day after day that I''m not the nicest, most affectionate person. DH spends a lot of time playing poker and I''m very happy with that, but he does always ask if I''m fine with it or if I need any extra support and also takes time in the evenings to play with Daisy - very small babies are not very interactive so I''m really happy that he tries to amuse her so much.

Sounds like she has also been PG for much for their marriage and trust me that can be a time when you are not yourself. I finally found out what people mean by PMS when I got pregnant!

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 9/29/2009 6:30:18 PM
Author: Pandora II
3 month old baby? I''m wondering if she might have PPD?

I know that when I''ve spent all day with a baby that won''t sleep during the day and has been up all night for day after day after day that I''m not the nicest, most affectionate person. DH spends a lot of time playing poker and I''m very happy with that, but he does always ask if I''m fine with it or if I need any extra support and also takes time in the evenings to play with Daisy - very small babies are not very interactive so I''m really happy that he tries to amuse her so much.

Sounds like she has also been PG for much for their marriage and trust me that can be a time when you are not yourself. I finally found out what people mean by PMS when I got pregnant!

Very helpful insight Pandora, thanks for weighing in! I know that pregnancy and a new baby around the house can be uber stressful, even for the most loving and affectionate couples. I don''t know how they divide the child duties when they are both home, but he plays video games when she is at work, or sleeping, to avoid fights with her. I agree with you, and know from my own relationship, that men and women often have differing expectations about what needs to be done to keep the household running smoothly, and I know I hate feeling like I have to remind another adult to pick up after themselves

, so yeah.... they are dealing with a LOT of variables.

FBIL says that he is pretty depressed now, as a result of the stress, strain and lack of affectionate interaction (probably unemployment too), so they both might not be in the best mental space to address their issues at present...

I will suggest trying individual counseling... maybe FI will pass that along to them... maybe medication might help? But she is breastfeeding, don''t know if that matters?

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 9/29/2009 6:53:24 PM
Author: trillionaire

Very helpful insight Pandora, thanks for weighing in! I know that pregnancy and a new baby around the house can be uber stressful, even for the most loving and affectionate couples. I don''t know how they divide the child duties when they are both home, but he plays video games when she is at work, or sleeping, to avoid fights with her. I agree with you, and know from my own relationship, that men and women often have differing expectations about what needs to be done to keep the household running smoothly, and I know I hate feeling like I have to remind another adult to pick up after themselves

, so yeah.... they are dealing with a LOT of variables.

FBIL says that he is pretty depressed now, as a result of the stress, strain and lack of affectionate interaction (probably unemployment too), so they both might not be in the best mental space to address their issues at present...

I will suggest trying individual counseling... maybe FI will pass that along to them... maybe medication might help? But she is breastfeeding, don''t know if that matters?

Sounds more and more pregnancy/new baby related...

When he talks about lack of affection, is he really meaning lack of sex? When you''ve just pushed the equivalent of a football through your hoohaa, add copious bleeding for 5 weeks or so and severe pain if you''ve had stitches, then DTD is not high up on your list of priorities. I''ve told my DH that he''s welcome to get an interim mistress

- and I wasn''t completely joking! Around 40% of women also find that they have no libido when they are pregnant - so he may not have been getting much then either.

Because doctors etc talk about the 6 week check-up, a lot of guys think 6 week check-up = green light for DTD. Well physically it might, but emotionally it may well not be. If he''s pushing for the whole works - even without saying anything - then she may well avoid any intimate contact in order to avoid things leading anywhere.

Many men are also resentful of the attention and affection that the new baby is getting and feel left out and unimportant. Rather immature IMO, but it''s very common. Combine that with unemployment and his self-esteem is probably taking a knock.

As a currently SAHM of a baby about the same age, I''d love to know how he manages to play video games if he is also looking after a baby? I get the odd hour or two during the day but that is about it. What''s his secret????

Sounds to me like they need to have an honest chat about everything regarding expectations from each side. If she does have PPD there are meds that you can take while breast-feeding - my sister took Prozac throughout her last pregnancy and a year of breastfeeding with the full support of her OB and pedi.

 

[trillionaire]

to update, FBIL and FSIL went to their counselor today and got to the bottom of the problem (at least the current one). FSIL was mad about something that FBIL had done THREE MONTHS AGO, and had been holding a grudge about it ever since. He had apologized at the time, but she didn''t feel that the issue had been sufficiently resolved, so she was being distant because of it. I don''t know what the issue was specifically, but something to do with his interaction/disciplining of the 7 year old (her son, not his biologically). He treats the kid as his own, but she is very defensive and protective of how FBIL treats him, which causes frequent problems for them.

The counselor told her the 3 months was an unreasonable amount of time to hold a grudge, especially without communicating that you were upset. Hopefully things will improve around the household, now...