Fancy Diamond Help - Diamond Review

[wizardman123]

Hello Guys,

So I am about to pull the trigger on a fancy diamond for an engagement ring. I am planning to propose later this year but found the stone that I believe she will love. Because of this, I was going to purchase the loose stone now and have it set in a few months and when budget allows.

Since this is my first real diamond purchase, I was hoping to use some of your experience to have your thoughts and feedback on the following stone:

GIA
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ename=GIA/Dispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547







The current price of the stone is around five thousand usd.

The aspects that were most important to me were the table dimensions. My girlfriend admires the square radiant cuts and this is almost perfect dimensions of a square. The other aspect was the colour. I wanted to stick with a fancy intense colour for a nice colour saturation. The clarity wasnt the most important to me (and I was hoping to save a few bucks here), but the VS1 grade makes it a good investment stone as well. Also, the size, I was looking for .75-.90 and this tops the charts at the higher end.

What do you guys think of the stone? I tried the PriceScope tester but couldn't figure out where to find the different percentages of the stone.

Thank you for any feedback/comments. Have a happy Monday!!!

 

[JulieN]

I think it looks nice.

 

[chrono]

Looks like a nice diamond although there's something odd going on around the perimeter of the radiant. Did the vendor provide a video? What do you mean by "makes a good investment stone"?

 

[tyty333]

It looks *nice*. Would like to see a video though. Diamonds arent good investments VS1 or otherwise. Don't buy one for investment
reasons because you will probably have a hard time recouping your investment. Buy it because you love the way it looks or you think
your GF will love the way it looks.

Edit - just wondering if you saw this stone. It may not be square enough for you and you would need to make sure it's eye-clean.
Its also has IGI paperwork which I'm not sure what that means in the colored stone world. Someone else would need to comment
on that but there is a big price different between it and the $5k stone you are looking at. If I was you I would ask for a gemologist
to look at both of them and tell you what they see.

http://www.leibish.com/yellow-diamond/089ct-fancy-intense-yellow-radiant-si1-127460-18815

Edit - also to say I am NOT a colored stone expert !

 

[wizardman123]

Hello guys,

Thanks for your reply!

The stone is being purchased for the only reason that I think the girlfriend would love it! I am stretching my budget to accommodate this stone for that reason specifically.

When I first started researching fancy coloured stones, the only vendors I found locally were ones that sold them for "investment purposes". Since it has a high clarity and colour rating, I figured I would mention that I thought it would be a good "investment" stone as well. Again, this is not the reason for purchasing the stone at all.

I am getting a video tomorrow from the vendor. We will see how it looks. When you say that there is something going on with the perimeter of the radiant, are you referring to the black in the images? If yes, I asked the vendor about this and they replied saying "the spots you see are reflections from the photography - fancy coloured diamonds are especially hard to photograph". What do you guys think?!

I can post the video when I get it tomorrow morning.

Let me know your thoughts! Thank you!


***Edit - I did see this stone, but did not like the IGI certification instead of GIA. I hear IGI is more lenient with their colour grading, however, the stone does look to have a good yelow colour saturation. They are willing to have it GIA approved for a fee, however, that money would be lost if I did not like the stone after the report. I was also hoping for more of a square radiant (within .1mm ideally in the table dimensions).

 

[JulieN]

Diamonds are not a good investment. Period.

Ask them if they disagree with the IGI report in any way. If the GIA report comes back and matches the IGI report color grading (or their own opinion) you will be happy to buy it. If the GIA report comes back with a lower color grading, you will consider the stone with a renegotiation in price, or walk away.

 

[wizardman123]

Hello JulieN.

Thanks for your input. Lets not focus on the investment statement. As I said, it was only a reference to my experience with a few local vendors. It is not being purchased with that in mind at all.

I appreciate the advice. The stone is already marked down with the holiday sale and the vendor will not budge past that even if GIA comes back with a different colour grading. I am sure that the reason between these two prices is mainly because of the IGI vs GIA difference - not to mention the SI colour grading vs VS1. It is also unfortunately not as square as I would like.

Any feedback from color diamond experts would be appreciated.

Thanks guys!

 

[JulieN]

Whoops, I'm sorry, misread where the thread was going. The stone you are interested in is GIA FIY.

 

[wizardman123]

Hey guys.

So the video for this diamond can be viewed here: http://vimeo.com/114013866

Can you guys take a look and let me know what you think? Are there any concerns with the stone?

Any fancy coloured diamond experts out there on price scope to weigh in?!

Thanks!

 

[chrono]

How do you plan to set the stone? Given that the proposal is months away, are you absolutely sure that she wants a FIY radiant because you will be out of the return window? Other than that, it looks like a nice FCD.

 

[tyty333]

It looks nice. I dont know why I just dont love it though. I wish Kenny would comment on the color/faceting pattern.

(I think it's just me...not use to looking at colored stones).

 

[chrono]

Tyty?
Maybe it is because radiants don't appeal to you? I don't like them because most of them have large tables and tend to show a tilt window easily.

 

[wizardman123]

Hello Chrono,

Thanks for your reply!

Can you explain further what you mean by a tilt window?

She definitely wants a FIY radiant yellow diamond and definitely square. This one came up with the perfect dimensions which is why I was pursuing the stone early. I would have liked to get everything together, but this stone looked like everything I was looking for but it was higher then what I wanted to spend on the loose stone. So purchasing the loose stone will allow me to plan for my budget for the setting.

She doesnt think she is getting the yellow because she thinks these cost a lot more then they really do. We have looked at styles of setting and it will be placed with a thin band and a nice halo. Pave down the side of the band as well as on the underside of the stone on the supports for the main stone (basket?). Sorry, I am not so familiar with the proper terms.

I was also hoping Kenny could chime in and let me know his feedback. I know he is a long time supporter of this vendor in particular.

 

[RandG]

Hi there! I think the stone you chose is very pretty. I've purchased from this vendor and they're reliable and accommodating. They make the process super easy. You can't go wrong.

As a bit of a detour... a fellow member listed the following ring for sale:

http://diamondbistro.com/category/219/Colored-Center-Stone/listings/41031/Stunning-Steven-Kirsch-Yellow-Double-Halo-Ring.html

If you're not opposed to pre-loved and given your desired mounting, you may want to explore this one. It's a lovely ring and the price seems pretty good too

Good luck in your search!

 

[wizardman123]

Hi there! I think the stone you chose is very pretty. I've purchased from this vendor and they're reliable and accommodating. They make the process super easy. You can't go wrong.

As a bit of a detour... a fellow member listed the following ring for sale:

http://diamondbistro.com/category/219/Colored-Center-Stone/listings/41031/Stunning-Steven-Kirsch-Yellow-Double-Halo-Ring.html

If you're not opposed to pre-loved and given your desired mounting, you may want to explore this one. It's a lovely ring and the price seems pretty good too

Good luck in your search!

Hello,

Thanks for your feedback. It is a beautiful ring, but this is something I must purchase new.

Here is a similar style to the setting that I would be looking for. I am looking to have it done in platinum.



This would be done in a few months.

Any further feedback on the stone itself is appreciated

Thanks all!

 

[wizardman123]

Any chance for kenny to respond?!

 

[tyty333]

Tyty?
Maybe it is because radiants don't appeal to you? I don't like them because most of them have large tables and tend to show a tilt window easily.

Hey Chrono,
Actually, I think radiants are underrated. They are like cushions to me and come in many different flavors. Certain ones
I like due to their faceting pattern (more symmetrical) and others I just don't like.

The picture of the stone the OP is looking at looks pretty "lively" in the clear stone case but in the other pictures it just looks
kind of dull to me. Probably the pictures though. I think its because I cant discern the pattern besides the big X which in a
white stone would imply leakage but in a colored stone probably means its holding color better which would be a good thing!

So, I just tried to give the OP a heads-up that I havent looked at a lot of colored stones and to take my opinion with a grain of salt .

I'll have to go find a color radiant that I really like and see what it is that makes me like it for my own information.

Thanks,
tyty

 

[LoversKites]

Frankly, I'm not a fan because the saturation is unusually light for a FIY. The stones below were also graded FIY and you can see the difference in saturation between these (the first two) and yours (the last one). If you like it, and since you're pressed for time, it may be good enough considering the specs you're looking for.

 

[wizardman123]

Hey LoversKite. Thanks for your response!

I seemed to have made a mistake in my original post. I am looking to propose mid to end of 2015 (not 2014). So I definitely have some time between now and then. The reason why I was considering this stone is because it is the "Fancy Intense" colour that I was looking for, the right size and the perfect table dimensions for an almost perfect square radiant.

The stone is out of my price range for what I would like to spend on the center stone, however, since it seemed to meet the perfect criteria, I was considering stretching the budget a little. I was going to buy the loose stone now and have it set later next year (which would give me time to save for the setting).

Now that you mention it and compare these images, the colour saturation is not where I would like it to be either. I understand there is a full gradiant of yellows that fit into each colour grade. I guess this is on the lighter side for FIY. The excitement and rush to get it before it was even listed must have blinded me a little bit (keeping in mind that I am no expert at diamonds, just as researched as I can be for fancy stones). Colour saturation is one of the most important factors for the girlfriend and I - which is why I was looking only at FIY.

It seems this one may just be more "paper pretty" than anything. And I have a feeling that this is where the higher ticket price is coming from.

I guess I will say no to this stone and cross my fingers that another comes up in my timeline with my specs. I will continue to look for that perfect stone and pull the trigger early if I have to.

 

[LoversKites]

Ohh. I don't know why i assumed you didn't have much time. In that case I'd wait for something with better saturation. I kind of feel bad for bringing down your initial excitement. Good luck and I hope to see you post other yellows that interest you as you find them.

 

[JulieN]

Ok, I'm glad you came to your decision, because I think the consensus is this stone is "ok" but its not really so amazing that you have to buy now when you won't propose for months.

 

[wizardman123]

Hey guys,

So the vendor came back with this after my letter of regret:



The first 2 are just for scale while the last 2 are both stones I was considering. The .89 was an IGI graded stone and the dimensions of the table were slightly longer and more rectangular. I hear IGI are more lenient with their colour grading, however, the two fancy intenses look similar despite one being IGI and the other GIA.

The .89 IGI appears to actually be a little brighter. Or is this just me?!

Also, I was thinking of purchasing the diamond first in order to inspect it under a microscope at a diamond shop. If I purchase it with the setting, I wont have the opportunity to do that. What do you think of this procedure?

Thanks guys!

 

[LLJsmom]

I'm no color expert. I do love the color of fancy yellows though. What is your priority with regard to this diamond? Is it color? Because the second one to the left (.72) that you aren't considering is most beautiful to my eyes. That has the nicest color saturation and intensity (if I am using the terms correctly). If you have time, I would wait and keep looking. And even though it is only .72, it actually looks bigger than the rest because the color is even throughout the whole stone. On the other stones, the color seems to fade away at the edges and the stone actually seems smaller. Again, from an inexperienced color stone person just judging with her eyes.

 

[wizardman123]

Hello!

Thanks for your post.

The .72 is a Fancy Vivid Yellow. This is the highest on the colour grade for the yellows. This is why it has such a high saturation of colour and is so beautiful! If I were to go for the Vivid Yellows, I would have to drop to a half a carat to stay within my price range. Although they are beautiful, I would rather stick with a nice Fancy Intense Yellow stone (just below Vivid) with good colour saturation and get a larger stone (close to 1 carat).

My priorities with the stone are colour and dimensions of the table (square). Clarity is not a big one for me. I would prefer the diamond to be GIA certified as well.

The search continues...

 

[blackprophet]

+1 to LLJsmom. I like the .72 the best. Its only slightly under your required size. I would also check the dimensions on it as compared to the others you were interested in, FCD are cut to maximize colour not size, and priced with relation to colour accordingly, as a result the length and widths might be close to the diamond you are considering.

Can you give us all of your requirements?
.75-.9
FIY? (any other colours that would be ok?)
Square (how square do you want)?
Budget?
Any other requirements?

I like this one. Its not a square as the one you like. The videos at this particular vendor are much more accurate than the pictures. I like it based on the video, but I'm not an expert.
http://www.diamondenvy.com/0-89-carat-radiant-cut-natural-fancy-intense-yellow-diamond-13281.html
If you like it, they are really good about providing more pictures and videos.


Didn't find anything else that I like.

 

[wizardman123]

+1 to LLJsmom. I like the .72 the best. Its only slightly under your required size. I would also check the dimensions on it as compared to the others you were interested in, FCD are cut to maximize colour not size, and priced with relation to colour accordingly, as a result the length and widths might be close to the diamond you are considering.

Can you give us all of your requirements?
.75-.9
FIY? (any other colours that would be ok?)
Square (how square do you want)?
Budget?
Any other requirements?

I like this one. Its not a square as the one you like. The videos at this particular vendor are much more accurate than the pictures. I like it based on the video, but I'm not an expert.
http://www.diamondenvy.com/0-89-carat-radiant-cut-natural-fancy-intense-yellow-diamond-13281.html
If you like it, they are really good about providing more pictures and videos.


Didn't find anything else that I like.

Hello! Thanks for your reply.

The 0.72 is indeed beautiful! Just out of my price range unfortunately. And the vivid colour is not as important for me as it will take away from the size of the stone and that is not something I want to sacrifice!

The idea that they are cut to maximize colour is exactly why it will take some time to find my perfect "Square" radiant diamond in fancy intense yellow! I think that is why I got excited about the first stone!

I like the diamond you sent as well. I had not been considering DiamondEnvy as I had never found them before. I have made contact with them via chat and have them looking for me.

The 0.89 is beautiful, and I am curious as to how they take their pictures as the image looks like a Fancy Vivid stone in my eyes. But I do not like the dimensions of the stone or the medium blue fluorescence. I know it can sometimes bring out the colour more, and some other times just make the diamond look cloudy under UV. I have been trying to keep that down to None or Faint to avoid all variables in having a possible cloudy stone.

The items that I am seeking in a diamond, in order of preference, are as follows:

Radiant Cut with Square Dimensions. Table dimensions must be very close to square +/- .15mm
Fancy Intense Yellow Stone
0.75-.90 carat in weight
GIA Certified preferred (will also look at IGI)
Clarity is not important as long as it is eye clean
Faint or No Fluorescence

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[LoversKites]

You definitely have done your homework and know what you are looking for, for that I'm glad. I'm just curious as to why 'perfect' square dimensions are so important to you. Since FCDs are cut with many variables in mind, like colour entrapment, rough shape, inclusion placement, weight, face up size, maximizing brilliance and fire, etc etc etc, I wasn't aware that there even was a perfect square shape. I'm not trying to challenge you - I'm genuinely interested. I understand wanting to avoid a thick girdle and a high depth % for a larger face up size, and many prefer a high crown and smaller table to bring out more sparkle, or prefer a balance between crown height and table size.

It's interesting to see someone so specific regarding an FCD's cut -- and I mean that in a good way because people tend to skip the cut aspect and settle for a questionable cut because FCDs are more uncommon than colourless diamonds (less options to look through). I've seen it happen a few times already in my short time interested in gems and FCDs.

And btw, you probably already read this before but it's a better idea to look at mm measurements than at ct weight because larger ct weight does not necessarily equal larger face up size.

 

[wizardman123]

You definitely have done your homework and know what you are looking for, for that I'm glad. I'm just curious as to why 'perfect' square dimensions are so important to you. Since FCDs are cut with many variables in mind, like colour entrapment, rough shape, inclusion placement, weight, face up size, maximizing brilliance and fire, etc etc etc, I wasn't aware that there even was a perfect square shape. I'm not trying to challenge you - I'm genuinely interested. I understand wanting to avoid a thick girdle and a high depth % for a larger face up size, and many prefer a high crown and smaller table to bring out more sparkle, or prefer a balance between crown height and table size.

It's interesting to see someone so specific regarding an FCD's cut -- and I mean that in a good way because people tend to skip the cut aspect and settle for a questionable cut because FCDs are more uncommon than colourless diamonds (less options to look through). I've seen it happen a few times already in my short time interested in gems and FCDs.

And btw, you probably already read this before but it's a better idea to look at mm measurements than at ct weight because larger ct weight does not necessarily equal larger face up size.

Hello LoversKite,

Thanks for the response.

I really only have one answer to me being so adamant about the square dimensions: Its what the girlfriend wants

We shopped at some stores at Birks and Tiffanys and took a look at the few fancy yellow diamonds they had in store. The conclusion was she likes the bright colour (she was fine with fancy yellow before i drove her to a different location to show her the intense ) and wants the square dimensions of the radiant cut. She doesnt like the halo look when it is more elongated on one side.

This is why I was trying to persuade her towards cushion. To my limited knowledge, they are more commonly a "square" diamond shape. In my mind, it also would look better in the halo because the halos inner shape usually matches perfectly with that of the cushion diamond and would therefore cause no gaps (which I have learned that there wouldn't be with any shape with a hand forged ring - versus these stores that mass produce and don't customize the bands according to each specific diamond). All of the diamonds at the store had awful gaps between the diamond and halo. Not only that, but all of them enclosed the diamond with yellow gold at the bottom which makes it a) harder to clean and maintain and b) doesn't show off as much of the natural colour of the stone.

I have done a lot of research on these stones but have yet to learn about the crown and girdle (and a few other things you mentioned), so these havnt been much of my concern. Maybe I should begin researching this more. I have a feeling it will only complicate my search even further. I work in the engineering field and tend to study something in depth to make sure I am understanding every aspect. I impressed the girlfriend when I knew more about the fancy stones than the best sales rep for FCDs at Birks. I probably got her tingling a little bit with her now knowing that I have been researching them! She said she had butterflies when that FCD ring was on, I intend to give her a lifetime of those butterflies with this beautiful ring! ***cheesy moment***

I have been reviewing the dimensions of the stone in mm (see above where I requested dimensions to be +/-0.15mm). I have noticed in the 0.85-.90 range, the table dimensions are usually just over 5mm. So I am trying to keep the length and width to be within 0.15mm of each other.

Thanks so much for your feedback! I am loving the conversation. Diamond searching is usually quite a secret thing but its nice to be able to spew out some of the knowledge that I have learned in the past months and receive all your expert thoughts and opinions. Hopefully the girlfriend isint reading this

 

[diamondenvy1]

I think if you want a rich yellow color you have two options to mull over:

1- Not all intenses are created equal. There is some variation in the GIA color scale so it is often that one fancy intense will look brighter or more yellow than another fancy intense, so keep that in mind. If it looks more yellow than a "fancy", it will get the "intense" grade. If you are paying for an intense though, you should absolutely love the stone, as it will cost more than a fancy of the same caliber.

2- To stay within budget, you can purchase a yellow with lighter color and use yellow gold to surround it so the color reflects in the stone. Just talk to your jeweler about that when you are ready to create the ring. (The band and halo can still be white gold or platinum.)

Best of luck!

**Sorry - I see now that you don't like the gold cup. In that case, it might be worth it to ask for comparison photos when you are shopping online. Have them photograph the intense next to a fancy or other intenses so you can get a better feel for the depth of color.

 

[Travelgal]

This might not be yellow enough for you as it is only a fancy yellow. However I couldn't help notice that it is a perfect square and comes under budget. You might not like it, but figured I would throw it out there in case you liked the facet patern (more like a princess with cut corners) and shape.

http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-yellow-diamond-100ct-fancy-light-yellow-vs2-radiant-cut-gia-gorgeous-stone-r5584