Falling White Diamond Prices

[smitcompton]

Hi,

In the past Pricescope has shown the Rappaport graph showing the changes in diamond prices for each month. It has always been posted in Rocky talky as well as other places on PS.+ The last Rap graph on here was April 2023. I have searched and found May & July 2023 graphs in other places. It seems to show a decline each month and the cumulative percentage drop ought to make a difference in the diamond prices of the recommended vendors on here. The 3-4 carat range seems significantly lower. with other categories following suit. Has James Allen and Whiteflashes diamonds been reduced? We know Whiteflash is aware of this as they changed their buyback policies. Is anyone following this price change.? We should see some.

There is a partnership formed between DeBeers and Gia that will show not only origin but trace the ownership to ,make certain the diamonds are ethically sourced. This will appear on the certificate from GIA. Do you think that will give DeBeers an advantage when selling?

I would like to see the price change graph put back on Rocky Talky. Other wise I will look for another reason a consumer board is not posting about lowiered diamond prices. I have already asked them to,do this ,but even April prices were removed.

Annette

 

[Rfisher]

Interesting.

 

[lulu_ma]

Are you talking about this?

Diamond Price Chart for round diamonds: Prices Update Monthly | PriceScope

Find out Diamonds Prices for Round Cut Diamonds with average and lowest per-carat prices taken from all the (1,000,000+) stones listed here with major 15 vendors.

www.pricescope.com

Looks like .5-.99 and 1-2 carat weight are the most effected. But other carat weights don’t seem to be as low as Covid levels.

 

[Karl_K]

The charts are there, Thanks @lulu_ma
With the sad passing of Andrey who was the owner/admin/person who worked crazy long hours keeping PS running and great guy, it is not unexpected that some things fall though the cracks and or get discontinued.
The data is there for those that want to look at it.

Rather than going all Xfiles lets be kind to those that struggle to keep PS running with the passing of Andrey.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Yes Lulu-ma. We need that on here. I think I looked at the graph and that it showed 3-4 carat had fallen. However the three month boxed chart shows the monthly loss. There is a base line of zero..which indicates the rise of 3-4 carat range and then it falls.
But yes, we need both on here, I think, because the losses are cumulative. But I think PS should be putting it on here. Thanks Lula-ma. ( I hope you are practicing you writing skills.) I'm waiting to read them.
Annette

 

[lulu_ma]

I *think* I get emailed a link to the Diamond Price Chart monthly.

Unfortunately, no time for writing @smitcompton . My eldest is applying to 22 colleges this fall. I may not have any hair left in 3 months!

 

[LLJsmom]

I *think* I get emailed a link to the Diamond Price Chart monthly.

Unfortunately, no time for writing @smitcompton . My eldest is applying to 22 colleges this fall. I may not have any hair left in 3 months!

I understand @lulu_ma . I feel your pain. My second is starting college this fall and I finally am through the tunnel. You too will get through.

 

[lulu_ma]

I understand @lulu_ma . I feel your pain. My second is starting college this fall and I finally am through the tunnel. You too will get through.

Thanks for the words of encouragement @LLJsmom ! I will have to go through this again in 2 years-but hopefully DD will be more directed in her college search.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hey hey hey!
Andrey set this up as an auto function.
If you check it out you will see that it is indeed upto date as of 1st of September - 11 days ago.
Have a very close look.
This is not Rapaport data - it is live PriceScope natural diamond data base so as real as it gets!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hey hey hey!
Andrey set this up as an auto function.
If you check it out you will see that it is indeed upto date as of 1st of September - 11 days ago.
Have a very close look.
This is not Rapaport data - it is live PriceScope natural diamond data base so as real as it gets!

The last one I saw was July 2023. I did a search for August and September but came up with nothing. Can you post a link to September?

 

[0-0-0]

The link posted by @lulu_ma earlier is updated every month. Pricescope simply didn’t post about the updates lately. https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/diamond-prices-chart/

 

[MissGotRocks]

The link posted by @lulu_ma earlier is updated every month. Pricescope simply didn’t post about the updates lately. https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/diamond-prices-chart/

Thank you!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

It used to be on Rocky Talky. It was removed recently. Its a great stat to have. What is so unkind to ask for it to be put back where the buying public can easily access it? It may be in several places, but has been removed from Rocky Talky.

Perhaps this is a time to buy.? I went looking and of course was tempted.

Annette

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

I noticed there have not been threads even though the graphs are updated But I am so elated that the prices are falling, that I am too cheerful to complain.

https://fortune.com/2023/09/03/diam...grown-stones-de-beers-cutting-cutting-prices/

(Not wishing ill on any of you nice vendors. May your inventory move swiftly.)

 

[nala]

I think that when Pricescopers started to embrace lab grown diamonds—the writing appeared on the wall for the demise of natural diamonds. Think about it. This forum is supposed to reflect the most knowledgeable and selective diamond connoisseurs. Cut, color, clarity were so heavily scrutinized that you would think all pricescopers were purists, all the while denying vehemently that they valued diamonds for anything but status symbolism. And slowly, the most revered diamond vendors started carrying and thereby, normalizing lab growns. The industry did it to itself. Why would anyone want to spend thousands for natural or lab grown? The illusion of diamond rarity is now gone and what selling point do naturals hold? They are no longer seen as exclusive or social status markers because everyone can now have and wave their 1 or 2 or even 3 carat lab grown and bc conveniently “it’s nobody’s business” if the ring is lab grown—the lab grown owner purports to be wearing a natural diamond. They even like to limit the size to a “credible looking natural size.” Why would anyone pay thousands more for natural when it is considered in poor taste to ask the wearer if their diamond is a lab or a natural? Not like they come branded for everyone to see. So no one will know the difference. And even diamond vendors are encouraging lab grown and cutting them to the most ideal standards, why pay for the real deal?
I don’t feel sorry for the demise of jewelers. They did it to themselves and to consumers. Natural and lab grown consumers both got taken, especially those early lab grown consumers. By early—I mean anyone who bought 2 years ago or more. They got taken just as badly as natural buyers except that natural buyers are hoping that their cherished heirloom will actually eventually become rare bc no one in their right mind will care to mine or sell natural diamonds anymore.
ETA: if I had purchased lab when I upgraded to my 2.9, my stone would have devalued by close to the same amount—labs were going for 70 percent of natural prices back then. That is my only consolation. That timing screwed me over like it did everyone else. And now I am playing another timing game. To sell back my natural now or hold it like real estate.

 

[lulu_ma]

Oh thanks for posting the article @oncrutchesrightnow

A couple of interesting tidbits from the article:

"While lab grown diamonds are currently hurting demand for natural stones, the upstart industry is also suffering. The price of synthetic diamonds has plunged even more steeply than that of natural stones, and are selling at a bigger discount than ever before."

“With the increase in supply we’ll see prices fall through the price point and reach a level where, long term, it does not compete with bridal because it comes too cheap,” said Rowley. “Ultimately they are different products and the finite and rarity of natural diamonds is a different proposition.”

If I was looking for high color natural studs under 4 ctw, I'd be shopping now.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out...

 

[smitcompton]

I noticed there have not been threads even though the graphs are updated But I am so elated that the prices are falling, that I am too cheerful to complain.

https://fortune.com/2023/09/03/diam...grown-stones-de-beers-cutting-cutting-prices/

(Not wishing ill on any of you nice vendors. May your inventory move swiftly.)

Hi,

What a good article this is. I looked, this morning at Whiteflash and checked out their 1 carat diamonds. Yesterday I looked at 1 carat diamonds at rare carats, and I wanted to compare. I was shocked at the price difference. White flash 6600-8,000 vs 3600 at rare carats for vs2 H. WhiteF lash has a 1 carat H vs2 Lab grown for 503.00. Unbelievable. I would opt for that, and tell my children to opt for a LCD, and save the rest for a house.

Annette

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The link posted by @lulu_ma earlier is updated every month. Pricescope simply didn’t post about the updates lately. https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-prices/diamond-prices-chart/

The link is here

Diamond Price Chart for round diamonds: Prices Update Monthly | PriceScope

Find out Diamonds Prices for Round Cut Diamonds with average and lowest per-carat prices taken from all the (1,000,000+) stones listed here with major 15 vendors.

www.pricescope.com

The chart is on the front page: www.pricescope.com - it has always been there.
The chart has run for 15 years and the months on the graph are every 4 - if you look closely there are two dots since then. Nov Mar july nov mar july etc.

Smaller diamonds took a big jump when the big Chinese jewelers were stocking the 10,000 new stores from 2009 and have been steadily falling ever since as advances in mass production cutting have increased.
The top end of natural town is historically strong as seen in the +4ct stones. Those jumped up as China opened up - then plateaued when Xi Jinping threw lots of gov officials into jail for corruption and excessive lifestyles from 2012.
Then we had Covid downs and shortages ups followed by Russia/Ukraine.
This is the absolute best price list anywhere - it leaves out Flawless and VVS1 - and Andrey automated it - so it self populates.
And I miss him

 

[lulu_ma]

I think that when Pricescopers started to embrace lab grown diamonds—the writing appeared on the wall for the demise of natural diamonds. Think about it. This forum is supposed to reflect the most knowledgeable and selective diamond connoisseurs. Cut, color, clarity were so heavily scrutinized that you would think all pricescopers were purists, all the while denying vehemently that they valued diamonds for anything but status symbolism. And slowly, the most revered diamond vendors started carrying and thereby, normalizing lab growns. The industry did it to itself. Why would anyone want to spend thousands for natural or lab grown? The illusion of diamond rarity is now gone and what selling point do naturals hold? They are no longer seen as exclusive or social status markers because everyone can now have and wave their 1 or 2 or even 3 carat lab grown and bc conveniently “it’s nobody’s business” if the ring is lab grown—the lab grown owner purports to be wearing a natural diamond. They even like to limit the size to a “credible looking natural size.” Why would anyone pay thousands more for natural when it is considered in poor taste to ask the wearer if their diamond is a lab or a natural? Not like they come branded for everyone to see. So no one will know the difference. And even diamond vendors are encouraging lab grown and cutting them to the most ideal standards, why pay for the real deal?
I don’t feel sorry for the demise of jewelers. They did it to themselves and to consumers. Natural and lab grown consumers both got taken, especially those early lab grown consumers. By early—I mean anyone who bought 2 years ago or more. They got taken just as badly as natural buyers except that natural buyers are hoping that their cherished heirloom will actually eventually become rare bc no one in their right mind will care to mine or sell natural diamonds anymore.
ETA: if I had purchased lab when I upgraded to my 2.9, my stone would have devalued by close to the same amount—labs were going for 70 percent of natural prices back then. That is my only consolation. That timing screwed me over like it did everyone else. And now I am playing another timing game. To sell back my natural now or hold it like real estate.

@nala I just have to ask-has the prevalence of lab diamonds made you love your 2.9 ct less?

Also, unless I am reading the chart incorrectly, current 2-3 carat pricing looks to be either equivalent or slightly higher than when you bought in 2020?

 

[nala]

@nala I just have to ask-has the prevalence of lab diamonds made you love your 2.9 ct less?

Also, unless I am reading the chart incorrectly, current 2-3 carat pricing looks to be either equivalent or slightly higher than when you bought in 2020?

It has made me never ever ever want to upgrade again! That is for sure!!! Like, at some point I thought that I would upgrade one last time. I thought the process would be just as exciting as upgrading to my 2.9. The searching. The availability of stats that fit my criteria. The quest. The fact that I could share this accomplishment with my DD and feel proud that one day it would be her heirloom. But now, there is nothing special about getting a bigger diamond. I wouldn’t feel proud—I would feel stupid spending so much for the natural stone.
I don’t love it any less and I do not look at it as a waste of money. Like I said, the timing for me made the natural the sensible choice.
I should add that my jeweler allowed me to upgrade in increments! But if I had traded up my then stone for a lab, he would have ended the trade up policy and I would have still paid 70 percent of the cost that I paid for the natural. His policy for lab growns has always been no trade ups bc the market is too volatile. He was selling lab grown 3 carats for 13k until recently!! Now he sells them for 3k.
Hope that answers your question.
ETA: I still plan to hand this ring down to DD, tho I don’t know how valuable it will be to her, given that I will encourage her fiancé to buy lab and purport it to be a natural!

 

[lulu_ma]

Thanks for indulging my curiosity @nala . Your stone is gorgeous, plus I love the fluoro. I hope it still brings you lots of joy.

In the antique arena I have seen some pricing ups and some downs. In some cases, prices have skyrocketed.

For instance, I tried this ring on at NY JAWS in 2021:



That ring sold. Now the same vendor has recently listed this ring which is less than a carat heavier. I mean the clarity is higher, but still the price increase kind of astounds me.

 

[nala]

@nala I just have to ask-has the prevalence of lab diamonds made you love your 2.9 ct less?

Also, unless I am reading the chart incorrectly, current 2-3 carat pricing looks to be either equivalent or slightly higher than when you bought in 2020?

Oh. As to the value of my ring now? I haven’t checked the chart you are referring to. I did stone algo a few years ago and it looked like my stone had appreciated but last month, it had lost the gain and dropped from purchase price.

 

[Heathcat24]

And even diamond vendors are encouraging lab grown and cutting them to the most ideal standards, why pay for the real deal?
I don’t feel sorry for the demise of jewelers. They did it to themselves and to consumers. Natural and lab grown consumers both got taken, especially those early lab grown consumers. By early—I mean anyone who bought 2 years ago or more.

This is spot on, @nala . It is a very overlooked area in the lab grown vs natural debate, but, I think, so important. The vendors themselves have put lab grown alongside natural, even highlighting price differences with the touch of a button. I have had two fairly well-known Pricescope vendors tell me I can get more for my money if I go with lab diamonds for a couple of projects because they're the SAME THING. Another told me that, "if you're on a budget", I should look at their lab grown option. All of them made the statements without me expressing any interest at all in lab diamonds.

Lab grown is just not mind clean for me. But I completely understand people buying and wearing them and loving them, especially with the vendors themselves asserting that they're the same product.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi.
I wouldn't count EMD out just yet. First. the value of diamonds is ingrained in the culture. Many, many people did what Nala wished to do, and that is to pass down a valuable piece of diamond jewelry to their heirs. This, in the past kept many diamonds pff the market, and new ones could be sold. I think only the new generation can change that perception. If LCD becomes the diamonds of choice for young people, and the price falls too low, it will be a less important gift because we should acknowledge that cost does give it status, Then EMD will regain status. I can see that happening.

Large white diamonds will continue to be valuable. 5 cts and above are rare.

One con that I see is that a one carat diamond has become too expensive from the vendors on here. I wanted diamond studs several years back. Diamondseeker gave me an estimate for 1 cts in each ear. It was $4000 per stone per ct. The same specs now are almost double. Personally, I find that ridiculous. So I say. wait a while and the labs will probably continue to go down, and buying studs will make sense to me. I already have 1 ct studs, but we all think about upgrades.

Gary, thanks for telling me that the graphs are on the front pge, as I tried to find them again yesterday, and couldn't. I don't come to pricescope from the front page.

Annette

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hi.
I wouldn't count EMD out just yet. First. the value of diamonds is ingrained in the culture. Many, many people did what Nala wished to do, and that is to pass down a valuable piece of diamond jewelry to their heirs. This, in the past kept many diamonds pff the market, and new ones could be sold. I think only the new generation can change that perception. If LCD becomes the diamonds of choice for young people, and the price falls too low, it will be a less important gift because we should acknowledge that cost does give it status, Then EMD will regain status. I can see that happening.

Large white diamonds will continue to be valuable. 5 cts and above are rare.

One con that I see is that a one carat diamond has become too expensive from the vendors on here. I wanted diamond studs several years back. Diamondseeker gave me an estimate for 1 cts in each ear. It was $4000 per stone per ct. The same specs now are almost double. Personally, I find that ridiculous. So I say. wait a while and the labs will probably continue to go down, and buying studs will make sense to me. I already have 1 ct studs, but we all think about upgrades.

Gary, thanks for telling me that the graphs are on the front pge, as I tried to find them again yesterday, and couldn't. I don't come to pricescope from the front page.

Annette

I totally agree with you @smitcompton. This story has not all played out yet. While some equate value with dollars in the wallet, some equate value in other ways. If LGD continue to fall, they won’t be far above some synthetics that we have crossed paths with in the past. The younger generation may take these and run, but others see the value and mind cleanliness in EGD. You can replicate time in growth, but you can’t duplicate it IMO. I am still in the earth grown camp!

 

[MissGotRocks]

@nala, just curious about something you said upthread. You would encourage your daughter’s fiancé to buy her a lab diamond but purport it to be natural. Why would that be? If they are basically the same in your mind and a good value, why would you try to pass it off as natural? Why couldn’t it just be lab grown for all the world to know? Just seems to me if one is to embrace LGD, you must fully embrace it and own it because in your mind, it is a good value and makes the most sense. KWIM? Just thought it was an interesting statement and maybe I didn’t fully understand it?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This is spot on, @nala . It is a very overlooked area in the lab grown vs natural debate, but, I think, so important. The vendors themselves have put lab grown alongside natural, even highlighting price differences with the touch of a button. I have had two fairly well-known Pricescope vendors tell me I can get more for my money if I go with lab diamonds for a couple of projects because they're the SAME THING. Another told me that, "if you're on a budget", I should look at their lab grown option. All of them made the statements without me expressing any interest at all in lab diamonds.

Lab grown is just not mind clean for me. But I completely understand people buying and wearing them and loving them, especially with the vendors themselves asserting that they're the same product.

They were and most still are making 10 times the margin. All LGD will eventually cost retailers less than $200 per carat with larger stones costing less per carat than smaller stones.

 

[Lookinagain]

Why would anyone pay thousands more for natural when it is considered in poor taste to ask the wearer if their diamond is a lab or a natural? Not like they come branded for everyone to see. So no one will know the difference. And even diamond vendors are encouraging lab grown and cutting them to the most ideal standards, why pay for the real deal?

I understand and agree with most of your post, but I think the opinion that no one will know the difference doesn't take into account that the wearer will and still for many (I'm one of them) lab grown diamonds are not mind clean and honestly, for me, I don't think they ever will be.

 

[nala]

@nala, just curious about something you said upthread. You would encourage your daughter’s fiancé to buy her a lab diamond but purport it to be natural. Why would that be? If they are basically the same in your mind and a good value, why would you try to pass it off as natural? Why couldn’t it just be lab grown for all the world to know? Just seems to me if one is to embrace LGD, you must fully embrace it and own it because in your mind, it is a good value and makes the most sense. KWIM? Just thought it was an interesting statement and maybe I didn’t fully understand it?

Hi. I wrote that out of frustration and to mimic the sentiment that PS users keep repeating lately. I actually started a thread with this question a few years ago on rocky talk—which was later moved to the lab grown forum. I started the thread by posing that exact question—why not embrace it? Why not differentiate between the two types when the proud wearer is rocking an lgd. And, I was attacked, insulted, etc. and it was repeatedly stated that both diamonds are the same! Even vendors posted and repeated that!! This post is directed at vendors who did it to themselves. So if you can’t beat them, join them. PS is sometimes an echo chamber where dissent is discouraged in an effort to keep the peace and spare people’s feelings. Sooo, this mentality has changed my perspective about egd. I will keep mine, but I will be damned if I encourage loved ones to throw away good money on an item that even vendors have no confidence in!

 

[nala]

I understand and agree with most of your post, but I think the opinion that no one will know the difference doesn't take into account that the wearer will and still for many (I'm one of them) lab grown diamonds are not mind clean and honestly, for me, I don't think they ever will be.

I should have used quotes bc I was referencing the lab grown wearer’s chants as they constantly remind egd owners that they are so much smarter for saving thousands on an identical item. I am beginning to think they are right. And tho I am not gonna sell my stone and replace it with a lgd tomorrow, maybe I will one day to spite my jeweler, lol.