Experts : I need you help urgently please

[LD]

A friend of mine recently bought a 5ct Ruby and was told that it was heated but otherwise untreated. She''s just found out that it''s actually glass filled.

I need to know the following please:-

1. Price per carat for a heated Ruby of very good clarity and colour.
2. Price per carat for a glass filled / heated Ruby of very good clarity and colour.

Thank you for your help.

 

[chrono]

Crap! The words I want to use will all be censored. I''m sorry for your friend, LD. If she can return it, I would do so ASAP.

 

[luckynumber]

oh no!!!

 

[LD]

Chrono I''m not sure if returning is an option. I think both she and the Vendor are thinking of reimbursing the difference between heated and glass filled - which I''m sure is going to be enormous!

 

[Arcadian]

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that glass filled rubies went for like 30 bucks a carat (heck it could have been here!)

I have to look through my bookmarks to see where I saw this at.

I''m terribly sad for your friend, that majorly bites!

If it can''t be returned then I hope she can get the majority of her money back!

-A

 

[icekid]

Date: 1/4/2010 5:15:28 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds
Chrono I''m not sure if returning is an option. I think both she and the Vendor are thinking of reimbursing the difference between heated and glass filled - which I''m sure is going to be enormous!

That is so wrong! She obviously did not WANT a glass-filled ruby; why should she have to pay ANYTHING for it?! sketchy!

 

[Arcadian]

Found a PDF from AGL

http://www.aglgemlab.com/News/composite%20ruby.pdf


I've got other stuff so as I find it i'll put it here.

Here's another
http://www.gemguide.com/news/1108GMNWOGC.pdf



-A

 

[LD]

Arcadian - thank you so much. That''s incredibly helpful. Anything else you can find would be great and I''m sure will help her case. This really sucks.

 

[Arcadian]

Your welcome LD.

I''m so angr for her that she''s out of her money. I went through all my known ruby links and those are the two PDF''s that give some actual numbers for price per carat.

Palagems has the same info that was in my first link, so that should really hopefully provide some ammunition for her.


-A

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 1/4/2010 5:32:23 PM
Author: Arcadian
Found a PDF from AGL
-A

great reading articles
thanks for sharing!

 

[T L]

LD,
If you want to know how much, look on ebay. There's tons of 5 carat and up lead glass filled rubies on ebay going for very little. Some of them are quite lovely and clean too.

I'm sorry about your friend's misfortune.

 

[Indylady]

I am so sorry to hear this! The difference will be pretty large, but keep in mind that the price difference will most likely be even larger for larger carat weights. Was the jeweler duped by this ruby as well?

 

[T L]

Date: 1/4/2010 9:00:01 PM
Author: IndyLady
I am so sorry to hear this! The difference will be pretty large, but keep in mind that the price difference will most likely be even larger for larger carat weights. Was the jeweler duped by this ruby as well?

Not really. Lead glass filled rubies don''t go up exponentially in price for larger sizes like untreated, or gently heated ones do.

 

[movie zombie]

is the vendor online or a b&m?

if a b&m, said vendor should refund immediately and be happy to not have negative feedback in the community, with the business bureau, etc.

mz

 

[Indylady]

Date: 1/4/2010 9:01:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/4/2010 9:00:01 PM
Author: IndyLady
I am so sorry to hear this! The difference will be pretty large, but keep in mind that the price difference will most likely be even larger for larger carat weights. Was the jeweler duped by this ruby as well?

Not really. Lead glass filled rubies don''t go up exponentially in price for larger sizes like untreated, or gently heated ones do.

That is exactly what I meant. Lead filled rubies don''t go up in price, so the price difference between a 5ct heated and a 5 ct filled will be proportionately larger than the difference between a .5 ct heated and a .5 ct filled.

Ex. 5ct heated=$15,000 .5 ct heated=$140
5ct filled=$80 .5 ct filled=$10

 

[Arkteia]

I do not know if anyone has read my post about my Burmese ruby that was sold to me with a GRS certificate mentioning heat but no glass-healing. When I recertified it with GIA it did mention "minimal amount of glass residue in fissures". The jewellers I bought it from are quite reputable, in fact featured in Vogue edition in their country. I probably could receive the difference, but where do I start? There are two certificates, each of them stating different things. Do I contact GRS first? It is a 2-ct ruby ring with G-H diamonds in it, so it did not come cheap.

 

[T L]

Date: 1/4/2010 9:19:17 PM
Author: IndyLady

Date: 1/4/2010 9:01:41 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 1/4/2010 9:00:01 PM
Author: IndyLady
I am so sorry to hear this! The difference will be pretty large, but keep in mind that the price difference will most likely be even larger for larger carat weights. Was the jeweler duped by this ruby as well?

Not really. Lead glass filled rubies don't go up exponentially in price for larger sizes like untreated, or gently heated ones do.

That is exactly what I meant. Lead filled rubies don't go up in price, so the price difference between a 5ct heated and a 5 ct filled will be proportionately larger than the difference between a .5 ct heated and a .5 ct filled.

Ex. 5ct heated=$15,000 .5 ct heated=$140
5ct filled=$80 .5 ct filled=$10

Yes, I see, you were speaking in terms of a linear rise, and I was thinking exponential, which is the rise in cost of regular heated and untreated rubies per carat weight. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 1/4/2010 4:38:51 PM
Author:LovingDiamonds
A friend of mine recently bought a 5ct Ruby and was told that it was heated but otherwise untreated. She''s just found out that it''s actually glass filled.


I need to know the following please:-


1. Price per carat for a heated Ruby of very good clarity and colour.

2. Price per carat for a glass filled / heated Ruby of very good clarity and colour.


Thank you for your help.

Arrrrrgh!!!! Where did she get it??!?

1. Current pricing should be around $4000/ct for a very good color and clarity (I would label it as top Commercial).

2. Maybe $30 a carat max. Most glass filled rubies are 90% glass.

--Joshua

 

[Sagebrush]

Loving Diamonds,

The problem is comparing apples to oranges. I am not sure where Serenity got $4,000 per carat came from but the price is meaningless. I have seen 5 carat ultra fine rubies heat treated rubies at as much as 500k. I have a 4.92 sitting in my safe that was recently shown here on the forum that my cost is above $4,000 per carat. So what does "very good" mean in this context.

The issue is misrepresentation and unless the seller immediately takes the item back and reimburses the client...fraud!

Best,

 

[LD]

Thank you all for your replies. I do realise the cost (if this were a natural Ruby) would be subjective and be based on clarity/colour etc and I was asking a very very wide question. However, you''ve provided me with tons of information about the pricing of glass filled Rubies (thank you) and this will help my friend enormously when speaking with the Vendor. It''s better to be armed with facts than nothing isn''t it!?

 

[neatfreak]

In this situation the price per carat for a ruby she thought she got is irrelevant.

If the price per carat for a glass filled ruby is about $30 than she should be refunded anything more than $150 if she wants to keep it.

It doesn''t matter what a non-glass filled ruby would sell for. Only what she paid vs. what the glass filled one is worth.

 

[LD]

Date: 1/6/2010 2:19:44 PM
Author: neatfreak
In this situation the price per carat for a ruby she thought she got is irrelevant.

If the price per carat for a glass filled ruby is about $30 than she should be refunded anything more than $150 if she wants to keep it.

It doesn't matter what a non-glass filled ruby would sell for. Only what she paid vs. what the glass filled one is worth.

No it's not irrelevant and I may not have explained fully but she wants to keep the ruby as she spent a fortune on setting it and it's a bespoke setting. Therefore, if she keeps it then she wants to ensure she gets the difference to what she paid (believing it to be just heated) and what it is actually worth. If she were to return it she's got a setting that nothing else will fit and will be out of pocket by around $2000 for the setting because the Vendor isn't offering to recompense for additional expenses incurred.

 

[mariedtiger]

What a truly horrible situation for your friend. She must be so disappointed!!! I''m so sorry for her sake, I hope she can enjoy the ring and the beauty of the piece, after all of this and knowing what she now knows.

 

[Liane]

Date: 1/6/2010 2:38:57 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/6/2010 2:19:44 PM
Author: neatfreak
In this situation the price per carat for a ruby she thought she got is irrelevant.

If the price per carat for a glass filled ruby is about $30 than she should be refunded anything more than $150 if she wants to keep it.

It doesn't matter what a non-glass filled ruby would sell for. Only what she paid vs. what the glass filled one is worth.

No it's not irrelevant and I may not have explained fully but she wants to keep the ruby as she spent a fortune on setting it and it's a bespoke setting. Therefore, if she keeps it then she wants to ensure she gets the difference to what she paid (believing it to be just heated) and what it is actually worth. If she were to return it she's got a setting that nothing else will fit and will be out of pocket by around $2000 for the setting because the Vendor isn't offering to recompense for additional expenses incurred.

I don't think you're actually disagreeing with neatfreak.

If your friend paid X, and the actual value of the glass-filled ruby is $150, then it doesn't matter whether the actual value of a genuine ruby is $3000 or $30,000. The price your friend paid -- X -- is the only factor that matters. She should be refunded whatever X - $150 is. Then she can keep the glass-filled ruby, having paid its actual value of $150.

 

[Sagebrush]

Liane,

Good point! though, in my opinion, the vendor actually is under some obligation to buy her setting, particularly if it cannot be modified to fit another stone. As a goldsmith, making bespoke settings (lover that term) I can say also that these can sometimes be altered, or the center prong or bezel made and retrofitted. However, I understand that the client may not have the money to purchase a fine heat treated ruby, given the prices at the top end.

Best,

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/6/2010 2:48:00 PM
Author: Liane

Date: 1/6/2010 2:38:57 PM

Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 1/6/2010 2:19:44 PM

Author: neatfreak

In this situation the price per carat for a ruby she thought she got is irrelevant.


If the price per carat for a glass filled ruby is about $30 than she should be refunded anything more than $150 if she wants to keep it.


It doesn't matter what a non-glass filled ruby would sell for. Only what she paid vs. what the glass filled one is worth.

No it's not irrelevant and I may not have explained fully but she wants to keep the ruby as she spent a fortune on setting it and it's a bespoke setting. Therefore, if she keeps it then she wants to ensure she gets the difference to what she paid (believing it to be just heated) and what it is actually worth. If she were to return it she's got a setting that nothing else will fit and will be out of pocket by around $2000 for the setting because the Vendor isn't offering to recompense for additional expenses incurred.

I don't think you're actually disagreeing with neatfreak.


If your friend paid X, and the actual value of the glass-filled ruby is $150, then it doesn't matter whether the actual value of a genuine ruby is $3000 or $30,000. The price your friend paid -- X -- is the only factor that matters. She should be refunded whatever X - $150 is. Then she can keep the glass-filled ruby, having paid its actual value of $150.

Right. Thanks Liane. I was just pointing out that all the disagreement over a "fair" price for a heated ruby is irrelevant. It only matters what she paid and what the stone is actually worth.

FWIW I agree with Richard that since it was nowhere near what was represented the seller should be on the hook for any modifications or a new setting. IMO.

 

[LD]

Apologies Neat - I wasn''t meaning to be argumentative. I realised I hadn''t explained the situation fully and was trying (very clumsily) to clarify!

I agree with both you and Richard actually. If she keeps the Ruby then she should be refunded the difference between what she paid (believing it to be something it wasn''t) and it''s actual worth. The bespoke setting I guess is a difficult point. She could either ask for everything to be refunded as she would never have commissioned the ring for a glass filled ruby OR come to an amicable agreement with the Vendor that reimburses part of the cost. Whilst I''m sure she can''t afford to buy a natural/heated only Ruby of that size now (and presumably it would take some time to find something similar) at least she could look for a more affordable gemstone to put into the setting - or have one cut when she''s in a position to do so.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 1/6/2010 1:55:45 PM
Author: Richard W. Wise
Loving Diamonds,


The problem is comparing apples to oranges. I am not sure where Serenity got $4,000 per carat came from but the price is meaningless. I have seen 5 carat ultra fine rubies heat treated rubies at as much as 500k. I have a 4.92 sitting in my safe that was recently shown here on the forum that my cost is above $4,000 per carat. So what does 'very good' mean in this context.


The issue is misrepresentation and unless the seller immediately takes the item back and reimburses the client...fraud!


Best,

It was an average based on Top Commercial Color (On your scale probably about a 3.5 to 4 out of 5) and Clarity as an estimate, but yes all color stone prices vary significantly on color.

--Joshua

 

[colormyworld]

Date: 1/4/2010 4:38:51 PM
Author:LovingDiamonds
A friend of mine recently bought a 5ct Ruby and was told that it was heated but otherwise untreated. She''s just found out that it''s actually glass filled.

I need to know the following please:-

1. Price per carat for a heated Ruby of very good clarity and colour.
2. Price per carat for a glass filled / heated Ruby of very good clarity and colour.

Thank you for your help.

On both questions I think someone very well versed in the subject would have to look at the stone IRL to determine price for the just heat treated version against what you friend received. I am pretty sure the level of treatment will factor into the price differnce.