Eurika!!

[Texada]

Hi everybody!
I''m new here and have enjoyed the forums thus far. If you don''t mind, I would like to relate my story and questions.

It''s so hard trying to find the perfect one. I tried all the traditional places with no luck. I also resorted to the ones you hear about from "a friend of a friend". These either turned out to be other than what I wanted, or what was worse, other than what was described to me! So I did what many people these days are doing. I turned to the internet. After many months of searching, I have finally found the one I want (never compromise!), and she''s a beaut! Well rounded, brilliant and while not flawless, is a cut above the rest. It''s weird, but when you finally find "The One", you know it right away!! Anyway, now that I have found her and intend to spend the rest of my life with her, I want to buy her a diamond!

I have also researched the diamond market and have decided on a stone with the following specs. Please note that I am only giving the specs here because of the questions I have that relate to them.

1 ct.
D
IF
Ideal

I have found several stones with these specs that are in my price range, but would like to have answers to the following:

1) I have heard that setting a D color stone in gold (14k), can pick up a certain amount of ''yellowness'' from the gold thereby negating the effect of the D color. Because of this, I am planning on a platinum setting. But! Is this something to be concerned about with the Ideal Cut, since most of the sparkle and light you see, comes from the table and not from the bottom of the stone? Is this only a concern with less than ideal cuts?

2) Many of the stones I have seen, have no culet. I know this is not recommended because of chipping, but is it not true that the stone cannot chip once it has been set? If this is true, then the only way of the stone chipping would be if the jeweller caused this while setting the diamond. And if THAT is true, do most jewellers hold any liability against chipping the stone? And how would you know if it is chipped much after it''s in the setting? Should I insist on a stone with a medium to small culet?

Thank you for your patience in reading. I appreciate any help.

Bryon

 

[Mara]

I also have never heard that re: the culet and personally would not even consider a stone with a medium culet or small unless it was an old cut..not a modern. no culet or pointed is what is considered desirable for an ideal by many though some would offer other suggestions.

re: the D picking up color from the setting enough to turn it yellowish, I also have never heard this...i would always set my diamond in platinum prongs though even if the setting is yellow gold. for safety.

just curious, where did you hear both of these (culet/chipping and yellow gold/color)??

also i don't know if you have heard this before, if you have, then just ignore it. but because your two comments seemed to be a bit based upon myth rather than fact, i am wondering if your search for a D IF is also not based upon diamond myth rather than fact.

sometimes we get people here who want D IF just because they think that's the best thing out there and it is romantic. yes it's true that D is the whitest of white. but not everyone loves that look. some prefer a bit more warmth aka more like a G/H/I. that said, IF is not a flawless stone. the grade is technically internally flawless but that does not mean that an IF stone would not still have inclusions. it just won't have inclusions visible under appropriate magnification. so D is colorless yes and some people love that icy white. but the IF is truly subjective, many people cannot see inclusions with a VVS/VS or even an SI! the price differences in those jumps are huge.

anyway i dont know your reasonings for wanting D IF, I just know that sometimes people come here with misconceptions and those can also sometimes mean color and clarity misconceptions.

does your girl want a D IF? does she want a 1c? does she want something bigger? many women would want a bigger stone that is not D IF. but some will not.

my rambling point is do you know what she wants? do you know why you would be paying out the nose for D IF? just want to be sure all points are aligned...

that said, if you are at all open to other options other than D IF...what about a D VS? you won't see inclusions if you choose wisely and it would still have that icy white D. and be alot cheaper, maybe you could get a bigger stone or more fancy setting.

anyway this is all just speculation since i dont know what your girl wants...or if you are set on the D IF...but figured i'd throw some other ideas into the arena...i personally like bigger stones with non-eye-visible inclusions..i am also not color sensitive. for $20k i would hands down take that 2.37c stone that PG posted. YUM! or the 2.62 I SI that WF has! double yum!

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 6/11/2005 4:09:48 PM
Author:Texada

Hi everybody!
I''m new here and have enjoyed the forums thus far. If you don''t mind, I would like to relate my story and questions.

It''s so hard trying to find the perfect one. I tried all the traditional places with no luck. I also resorted to the ones you hear about from ''a friend of a friend''. These either turned out to be other than what I wanted, or what was worse, other than what was described to me! So I did what many people these days are doing. I turned to the internet. After many months of searching, I have finally found the one I want (never compromise!), and she''s a beaut! Well rounded, brilliant and while not flawless, is a cut above the rest. It''s weird, but when you finally find ''The One'', you know it right away!! Anyway, now that I have found her and intend to spend the rest of my life with her, I want to buy her a diamond!

I have also researched the diamond market and have decided on a stone with the following specs. Please note that I am only giving the specs here because of the questions I have that relate to them.

1 ct.
D
IF
Ideal

I have found several stones with these specs that are in my price range, but would like to have answers to the following:

1) I have heard that setting a D color stone in gold (14k), can pick up a certain amount of ''yellowness'' from the gold thereby negating the effect of the D color. Because of this, I am planning on a platinum setting. But! Is this something to be concerned about with the Ideal Cut, since most of the sparkle and light you see, comes from the table and not from the bottom of the stone? Is this only a concern with less than ideal cuts?

2) Many of the stones I have seen, have no culet. I know this is not recommended because of chipping, but is it not true that the stone cannot chip once it has been set? If this is true, then the only way of the stone chipping would be if the jeweller caused this while setting the diamond. And if THAT is true, do most jewellers hold any liability against chipping the stone? And how would you know if it is chipped much after it''s in the setting? Should I insist on a stone with a medium to small culet?

Thank you for your patience in reading. I appreciate any help.

Bryon

Dear Bryon....

Congrats on finding the "right one".


RE: Setting in Gold... If you''re talking about setting the stones in prongs and it is a D Color, it is preferable to use a white gold setting ( prongs not the ring if you want a yellow gold ring). Platinum is harder but if you need it retipped in the future, the diamond will have to be unset, cause you have to heat platinum to a much higher temperature than gold.

Look for a ring that has strong, thicker prongs, and I suggest 6 prongs over 4 prong designs.


The culet should be none or very small, but small is ok. The diagnosis of this is to make sure it isn''t noticeable to the unaided eye.

However it is critical in this quality cut type stone that the culet and the table are centered. I''d prefer very small, pointed, small and then medium in that order.

Rockdoc

 

[blueroses]

All good points. I can understand the emotional reasoning behind the D/IF thing, but as others have said, the actual beauty of the stone is far more determined by the quality of the cut.

My sister has an F/IF and it''s lovely --she and her husband love it (and got a ridiculous deal from the family jeweler) but truthfully, I''ve seen stones w/ lower clarity/color grades that sparkled more. Were it ME, I would go down in clarity and color to ensure the BEST cut and slightly larger size. But again, that''s ME, and the thing about diamond consumer education is that everyone has their own individual preferences and set of criteria!

Another thing worthy of note w/ an IF is that this clarity grade can actually depreciate eventually. Normal wear and tear on an IF can bring the grade down into the VVS range (I have read a couple such personal accounts on PS). Now, that wouldn''t affect the appearance of the stone, but then that''s the point: there is plenty of symbolic resonance for having an IF stone, and if that''s what you are going for great....but it will NOT have a visual impact on the stone''s appearance compared to a truly eye-clean stone of another grade.

I''m color sensitive myself, but not to the point of being able to tell a D from an E, and sometimes an F. Again, if this is an emotional appeal, I can understand the "D" preference. Or if you happen to be really color sensitive and have gone in person to compare D,E,F, even G, and you still prefer a D, then go for it! But if it''s perhaps more of the mystique of "THE D" as Mara asked, I''d suggest definitely checking out colors in person and seeing what you are drawn to.

Anyway, your girlfriend is a lucky gal, and you have come to the right place to get armed with even more knowledge. Definitely check out the tutorial if you haven''t already. Good luck!!

 

[Capitol Bill]

Hi Texada,
I like your description of the "perfect one." You could write copy for eHarmony.com

!

Not knowing anything more about the stone(s) you have found other than carat weight, color & clarity, I''ll answer your questions with the (big) assumption that you located a well cut stone (see my last paragraph below for more on this).

1) I have heard that setting a D color stone in gold (14k), can pick up a certain amount of ''yellowness'' from the gold thereby negating the effect of the D color. Because of this, I am planning on a platinum setting. But! Is this something to be concerned about with the Ideal Cut, since most of the sparkle and light you see, comes from the table and not from the bottom of the stone? Is this only a concern with less than ideal cuts?

Opting for a white gold setting (14k or 18k) should not present a problem from a yellowness standpoint as long as the finished setting is properly rhodium plated (or if your jeweler is using one of those new "whiter" white golds now being offered by some jewelry suppliers). Personally, if I were going to the trouble of getting a D/IF, I''d splurge a bit more and get a platinum setting. Keep in mind that while conventional wisdom suggests that a colorless gem is best mounted in a white metal setting, the color of the metal you mount the diamond in should be according to your own personal preference. A really clean, white stone mounted in yellow gold can have a very dramatic effect. It all depends on the look you''re going for.

2) Many of the stones I have seen, have no culet. I know this is not recommended because of chipping, but is it not true that the stone cannot chip once it has been set? If this is true, then the only way of the stone chipping would be if the jeweller caused this while setting the diamond. And if THAT is true, do most jewellers hold any liability against chipping the stone? And how would you know if it is chipped much after it''s in the setting? Should I insist on a stone with a medium to small culet?

I think others have already addressed this sufficiently. In an ideal round brilliant, no culet (57 facets) is the preferred way to go.

By the way, I''m sure you''re aware that D/IF stones are very rare to say the least. In this particular color and clarity combination (more so than any other color and clarity combination), it''s very difficult to find a truly ideal cut stone. Think of it from a manufacturers perspective. Cutting for weight retention is always the number one consideration. This is exponentially more important to the manufacturer when it comes to a D/IF, because if the diamond''s weight falls below that magic 1.00ct mark, a tremendous amount of value is lost. If your D/IF stone is pegged right at 1.00ct, the odds of it having the most optimum "ideal" cut are extremely slim. A truly ideal, 1.00ct D/IF is probably harder to find than the proverbial needle in a haystack. But if you''ve got lots of time and patience, it might just be found. Best of luck in your search!
Bill Scherlag

 

[Texada]

Hello again!

Thank you all for the great response. I will try to reply to all the points presented here with this one reply.

I love the fact that only a very small percentage of diamonds are graded D and IF. This, to me, is important. Although I will definitely be making the Cut my #1 priority, as this is where the brilliance and fire are produced. I feel that with an Ideal Cut, it can perform like a bigger stone and still only be around 1 ct. The reason for this is, I personally don''t care for the look of big diamonds on an engagment ring. This of course is just my personal preference. Ideally, yes, I should let the lady choose what she likes, but doesn''t this take away some of the fun, mystique and romance? (Rhetorical question).

After searching all over about the culet, I found what I was looking for right here on the Pricescope site! Here is an excerpt:

"These days the cutter usually ‘closes’ this facet to a point, but sometimes it remains as a small extra facet; this is not so bad because it protects the culet from chipping as the diamond is handled and while the jeweler is setting the stone."

Try as I might, I could not come up with the reference to diamonds picking up color from the setting. If this is indeed, not the case, then I would prefer gold over platinum. RocDoc, if I went with six white gold prongs on a 14k ring, is there in any way, a strengh issue at the white/14k gold interface?

Thanks again to all for your help. It is very much appreciated.

Bryon

 

[Mara]

T..was that in the tutorial re culet?

I honestly have never heard of anyone preferring a larger culet on a modern ideal and I also have not heard of one chipping during setting...I would worry more about a girdle chipping but even that is very rare. Find an experienced setter or have the diamond vendor set the stone (my personal preference) and I would not worry about it.

Possibly an expert can chime in re culet and that quote?

 

[Texada]

I did a quick Blue Nile search and found this one. Blue Nile has several similar to this. What I like about this one is the fact that the report indicates no flourescence. The girdle is also faceted and I like that.

bryon

 

[cinnabar]

Date: 6/11/2005 6:45:58 PM
Author: Texada

I personally don''t care for the look of big diamonds on an engagment ring. This of course is just my personal preference. Ideally, yes, I should let the lady choose what she likes, but doesn''t this take away some of the fun, mystique and romance? (Rhetorical question).

Having seen the "American way" is to always propose with a ring, I did a straw poll among my British friends this week. Every one of them, with no exceptions, said she would be horrified if her boyfriend chose the ring and that they expected a ringless proposal and then to choose the ring together afterwards as a couple, with the bride-to-be''s preferences given high priority. The romance is all in the proposal itself, and British women think it''s the most unromantic thing ever to have to wear an ugly ring for the rest of their lives, that they wouldn''t have chosen themselves.

Maybe that''s why upgrades are almost unheard of in the UK? Girls pick what they want first time round, and size isn''t that important to them compared to whether the ring itself (the setting) is pretty.

But I''m just throwing this in for contrast

If you and your FI are American, and you both love the romance of a surprise ring, then of course that''s what is right for you.

I wanted, and got, a D. I''m thrilled with it. I say go with D if that''s what your heart says. No, actually, I say go with D if that''s what your lady''s heart says. She''s the one who''s got to wear it.

 

[Texada]

style="WIDTH: 93.43%; HEIGHT: 152px">Date: 6/11/2005 7:37:17 PM
Author: cinnabar




I did a straw poll among my British friends this week. Every one of them, with no exceptions, said she would be horrified if her boyfriend chose the ring
I wanted, and got, a D. I''m thrilled with it. I say go with D if that''s what your heart says. No, actually, I say go with D if that''s what your lady''s heart says. She''s the one who''s got to wear it.

Cinnabar, thank you for an interesting perspective on engagement practices! American? Well, you''re half right! I am Canadian and my gal is from Texas; hence "Texada". I can''t help but wondering about the age group your poll consisted of. I am 46 years old, so perhaps that has something to do with it. Although, my father loves to tell the story about when he and my mother drove to the jewellery store. My mother stayed in the car, while my dad was allowed to bring out to the car, a selection of rings he had previously chosen within his budget! My mother made her choice and dad went back in to "square up". Times change!

bryon

 

[blueroses]

Byron, I love that story about your parents--too funny!!

It sounds like you have done your homework and know what you''re after--good luck, and do keep us posted (ahem, pictures, ahem!!)

One thing--I think the desire to surprise your gf is great....but try to find out subtly if she prefers yellow gold (I think that''s what you said you planned to get?) over platinum....no doubt the stone will be glorious, but some women have very strong preferences about the metal color....maybe you can find out in a stealthy way.

 

[Texada]

Blueroses,

Thank you for your input and leads on stones. I have a question for you and want you to be honest. If your guy came to you and tried subtly to find out If you prefer a gold or platinum setting, what would you be thinking?!

I realize there are other resources available- friends, family, going through her jewellery case.. ( I don''t know if THAT''S a good idea..), but you are right, I should make an effort to find out!

Thanks!

Bryon

 

[treysar]

I think her jewlery case is the best place to look! Does she wear any other rings? A necklace? Odds are she will want something in the same material. Or maybe you can ask a friend or her Mom? Althoughi bet they will have a hard time keeping their mouths shut if they catch on...


As for what YOU like in an engagement ring, as romantic as it is to be surpised, I think if my /fi paid $20,000 for a 1 ct ring I would strangle him - even if he was trying to be romantic, knowing that I could have something much bigger and just as beautiful to the eye at the same price would bug me out.

 

[Texada]

Date: 6/11/2005 10:28:46 PM
Author: treysar
I think her jewlery case is the best place to look! Does she wear any other rings? A necklace? Odds are she will want something in the same material. Or maybe you can ask a friend or her Mom? Althoughi bet they will have a hard time keeping their mouths shut if they catch on...


As for what YOU like in an engagement ring, as romantic as it is to be surpised, I think if my /fi paid $20,000 for a 1 ct ring I would strangle him - even if he was trying to be romantic, knowing that I could have something much bigger and just as beautiful to the eye at the same price would bug me out.

Hi Treysar,

Thanks for your comments. Based on what you said, I did some more looking around and found that while I can get a stone with another 1/2 ct. for the same amount of money, I''d have to drop down to an F and somewhere around VS1. For some reason, I just can''t get past the thought that I''d somehow be making a compromise that I wouldn''t feel comfortable making.

Perhaps I''ll try to do some more digging into what she finds appealing.

Bryon

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/12/2005 2:09:12 AM
Author: Texada

Date: 6/11/2005 10:28:46 PM
Author: treysar
I think her jewlery case is the best place to look! Does she wear any other rings? A necklace? Odds are she will want something in the same material. Or maybe you can ask a friend or her Mom? Althoughi bet they will have a hard time keeping their mouths shut if they catch on...


As for what YOU like in an engagement ring, as romantic as it is to be surpised, I think if my /fi paid $20,000 for a 1 ct ring I would strangle him - even if he was trying to be romantic, knowing that I could have something much bigger and just as beautiful to the eye at the same price would bug me out.

Hi Treysar,

Thanks for your comments. Based on what you said, I did some more looking around and found that while I can get a stone with another 1/2 ct. for the same amount of money, I''d have to drop down to an F and somewhere around VS1. For some reason, I just can''t get past the thought that I''d somehow be making a compromise that I wouldn''t feel comfortable making.

Perhaps I''ll try to do some more digging into what she finds appealing.

Bryon

Bryon
F VS1 is not a compromise.once mounted, it will look like a D IF to 99% of people.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 6/12/2005 2:09:12 AM
Author: Texada

I just can''t get past the thought that I''d somehow be making a compromise that I wouldn''t feel comfortable making.

As is your compromise is on size... to each his own. Does your girl have any say in this ?

About that rarity factor, well, it does count for all precious stones, but usually "rarity" shows - in say, unusual color or size. Diamonds are a case apart with these standard grades that define "rarity" that does not show.

Anyway, I can understand the appeal of D-IF, just do not expect the stone to look better in any way because of that pedigree.

 

[Texada]

Date: 6/12/2005 3:46:37 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Bryon
F VS1 is not a compromise.once mounted, it will look like a D IF to 99% of people.

Dancing Fire,

Thank you for your comments.

If someone is happy with an F VS1 then that is perfectly fine, but when you say "it will look like a D IF.." it implies that you''d really like a D IF, but will settle for a F VS1. If I want something to look like a D IF, it has to be a D IF, because who will know the truth? I will.

Bryon

 

[afrodyt2000]

But if you aren''t going to lie or pretend that it is D IF then I don''t see the problem. Many people here have tried to help you but you seem not very open to suggestions. I hope you find the perfect stone and she actually love it too.

 

[Texada]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 88px">Date: 6/12/2005 3:59:17 AM
Author: valeria101

As is your compromise is on size...

Hi Valeria,

I''m not making a compromise on size though! If I truly wanted a bigger stone, then settled for a 1ct, then this would be a compromise. In one of my ealier posts, I have talked about why I like the 1 ct. size.

Bryon

 

[Jason.]

Date: 6/12/2005 9:11:07 AM
Author: Texada

Date: 6/12/2005 3:46:37 AM

Author: Dancing Fire

Bryon

F VS1 is not a compromise.once mounted, it will look like a D IF to 99% of people.

Dancing Fire,


Thank you for your comments.


If someone is happy with an F VS1 then that is perfectly fine, but when you say 'it will look like a D IF..' it implies that you'd really like a D IF, but will settle for a F VS1. If I want something to look like a D IF, it has to be a D IF, because who will know the truth? I will.


Bryon

Bryon,

The main point folks are making here is that for all practical purposes, there's no difference between an F VS1 and a D IF.

First, with color in mind...take a look at this link. Color is most clearly appraised from the side or bottom of a stone, but even so, it's nearly impossible to see the difference in color between D and F (though the difference in price is substantial). When the diamond is face up, this difference in color is even harder to pick out. With an ideal cut, the stone's natural brilliance and fire make the difference academic.

Regarding clarity, a stone with a VS1 rating is so labeled because they contain Very Small inclusions which are *difficult* for a skilled grader to find under 10X magnification. Therefore, they would be unobservable with the human eye, and not many people I know go around with a 10X loupe in their pocket .

For me, at least, it's difficult to fathom spending $20,000 on a diamond and I think most people on this site are enamored with getting the absolute best price per unit carat weight, as long as the stone will still satisfy them. However, if what you really want is a D IF stone (because it is "the best") then I wish you nothing but the best!

I'm sure by now the term "eye-clean" has come up in your research...it's what they call a diamond with inclusions which are invisible to the naked eye. I really like a quote which gets kicked around here a lot:
"It's harder to find a Mind Clean stone than an eye-clean stone."

All the best!

--Jason

 

[Texada]

Date: 6/12/2005 9:17:12 AM
Author: afrodyt2000
But if you aren''t going to lie or pretend that it is D IF then I don''t see the problem. Many people here have tried to help you but you seem not very open to suggestions. I hope you find the perfect stone and she actually love it too.

afrodyt,

Wow! Lie or pretend? I don''t think you understand. What I want has nothing to do with how other people view the stone! So "lieing" or "pretending" has nothing to do with it. As for being "open to suggestions", please read my original posts.

Thank you for the wish that I find the perfect stone. I know it''s out there...

bryon

 

[fire&ice]

I would suggest you go out and look at D/If stones compared to F/VS stones. Experts usually can not tell the difference. It''s not a compromise. You don''t wear the specs. She wears the diamond...........and I''m gonna say it ............................

warning on the over generalization - Texas Gals like them big!

Honestly, from my perspective, I don''t find the value in a D/IF. I would either pocket the money for something else or go bigger on the stone. That is my practical nature. What am I saying? While it''s admireable that you want the perfect stone for the perfect one, try to seek out what *she* would like. She''s the one wearing it - of fretting about the cost of it

My then BF had it in his head that he wanted a colorless perfect stone (his idea was F/VVS). I went along with it as I would have worn anything. In hindsight, we overbought and I would have liked to have a bigger stone for the money. Fast forward twenty years, my big stone longing kicking in, my husband proposed again 20 years later w/ a 3 carat new e-ring.

Just an old broad''s perspective.

 

[blueroses]

Jason, well-put!!

I was going to also bring up the term "mind-clean."

The bottom line is that if only D, IF will be mind-clean for you, then that''s that!!

My only caution (and echoing what Treysar said) is try to get an idea (perhaps from a friend of hers who can be discreet if you want to keep the element of surprise) of whether your gf will ALSO have the same appreciation for the symbolic (and not visible) value of D, IF. (i.e. will "mind clean" be the same for HER--since she''s the one who will wear it?)

If it were me--with a stubby size 6 ring finger--I would take the larger F VS stone in a heartbeat, all cut factors being equal. That''s ME, of course, and if you think she will be as thrilled with a 1 carat D IF as you will be, then this is all academic.

Re: the metal color issue? If my bf didn''t know my preference and asked me, I''d be PSYCHED. It would mean that something was going to happen SOMETIME. But you can be more stealthy....ask a friend, her mom, etc. Or you could maybe look together at something else--a bracelet, a necklace--that comes in both gold and silver-tone and see which she prefers? See what she wears now. Oh, and make sure you get her ring size somehow too. There was someone on PS this week who had bought his gf a pave-eternity-band style e-ring and it was a 7...and her size was a 5. The whole thing is having to be remade for over $1k!!

GOOD LUCK, and as I said--no matter what you end up w/ color and clarity wise, we need to see pictures!!!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I would want more than the table and depth percentages to know if my $20k 1 carat diamond had an ideal cut.

I too wanted a D stone with super high clarity when I first learned about diamonds. I told my husband (then my boyfriend) that I wanted a D stone, maybe an E, really no lower than F if that was all he could afford. Then I inherited a 1.1 carat diamond from my grandma and had it appraised. It looks white and eye-clean to me. Visions of D/IF danced in my head. Well, it was somewhere in the near colorless to slightly tinted range (graded as J/K when set in platinum and G/H when set in yellow gold) and slightly included (SI1 the first time, VS2 the second). When I realized that this beautiful stone was not "perfect" and that I couldn''t tell the difference, I threw my requirements out the window. Sparkly, white, clear, that''s all I care about.

A friend of mine has a D/IF 0.30 engagement ring. When she explains why it''s so small, she says that her husband wanted it to be the best quality possible. I guarantee you that a 0.65 F VS2 with an ideal cut would not have looked any yellower or more included than her stone. The extra quality was invisible to the eye. Was it worth it? It wouldn''t be to me. As I said, she said this "when she explained why the stone was so small" -- something that she did often. If I were you, I would find out what your girlfriend wants or make sure you buy from a store with a good return policy so you can exchange it if she wants bigger or to spend the extra $ on something else.

I owned a $25 yard sale lazy boy when I lived on my own after college. I remember sitting in a wonderful $2k leather recliner chair and thinking, ya know, as good as this chair is, it is not 100 times better than my chair. My husband and I buy bottles of wine in the $7-$15 range. Our neighbor buys $100 bottles of wine and serves them to us occasionally. Yes, it''s great wine. But I''d rather have ten glasses of good wine than one glass of great wine.

If spending 2 1/2 times or more for a stone that will look essentially or exactly the same (to the average eye, including yours and your girlfriend''s) for the psychological/bragging rights factor is a negligible expense to you, then go for it. But I''d feel out your girlfriend first. See how she would want to spend the $20k. Maybe she only wants a one carat stone, but she wants big diamond stud earrings too. Maybe she wants to take a vacation. Who knows.

 

[Texada]

Date: 6/12/2005 5:06:20 PM
Author: Jason.



Bryon,

The main point folks are making here is that for all practical purposes, there''s no difference between an F VS1 and a D IF.

First, with color in mind...take a look at this link. Color is most clearly appraised from the side or bottom of a stone, but even so, it''s nearly impossible to see the difference in color between D and F (though the difference in price is substantial). When the diamond is face up, this difference in color is even harder to pick out. With an ideal cut, the stone''s natural brilliance and fire make the difference academic.

Regarding clarity, a stone with a VS1 rating is so labeled because they contain Very Small inclusions which are *difficult* for a skilled grader to find under 10X magnification. Therefore, they would be unobservable with the human eye, and not many people I know go around with a 10X loupe in their pocket .

For me, at least, it''s difficult to fathom spending $20,000 on a diamond and I think most people on this site are enamored with getting the absolute best price per unit carat weight, as long as the stone will still satisfy them. However, if what you really want is a D IF stone (because it is ''the best'') then I wish you nothing but the best!

I''m sure by now the term ''eye-clean'' has come up in your research...it''s what they call a diamond with inclusions which are invisible to the naked eye. I really like a quote which gets kicked around here a lot:
''It''s harder to find a Mind Clean stone than an eye-clean stone.''

All the best!

Jason! Thank you!

You said it all with this quote:
"I think most people on this site are enamored with getting the absolute best price per unit carat weight, as long as the stone will still satisfy them"
This is EXACTLY what I''m trying to say! I too, will be most pleased to find the best price per carat weight as long as the stone will satisfy me. Isn''t that what it''s all about? Isn''t this what personal taste is all about?

Two people go into a restaurant. One orders liver and onions, because that''s what he likes. The other orders fried chicken because this is what she likes. Here is the question; Who is getting the better meal?

While you are right, I will probably never run into someone with a loupe who wants to view the diamond. However, the diamond is a symbol of love and commitment to each other. I am not buying the diamond for other people to judge with or without a loupe. This has absolutely no bearing on my seeking the stone I seek.

The reason I want this stone is because I want the best stone (as judged by the labs) that nature has to offer.

I love this thread and I truly, truly enjoy the encouragement, suggestions and other comments!

Thank you!
bryon

 

[Texada]

I see a common thread in this..er...thread

, and what I see is a reflection of what other peoples tastes are in this matter. Some people love their old lazy boy chairs, but! Thousands of people love their new leather sofas too! Are THEY wrong in that? What about the people who love the $100 bottle of wine? Or the gal who would "strangle" her B/F if he paid 20K for "only" 1 ct.? Or when one said "The extra quality was invisible to the eye. Was it worth it? It wouldn''t be to me"

The only thing that has me thinking now is what Fire and Ice said... Texas gals like them big!

Bryon

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 6/12/2005 6:14:43 PM
Author: Texada

The only thing that has me thinking now is what Fire and Ice said... Texas gals like them big!

Bryon

Tee hee. Honestly, I would just examine your parameters outside the box. Stop thinking that the perfect diamond is on paper. It isn''t. It''s that perfect diamond on her finger.

Good luck with whatever you choose! Another thing to mention, when you limit your scope to such tight parameters, your selection really becomes - well tight.

 

[Mara]

Byron, re the larger stone...

Try to find out what she wants if you can, esp on size. Because if you are thinking a 1c would look fab on her and she would want something like a 1.5c...she may not be too jazzed when she finds out you spent $20k on a hunch!! Oh but honey, it''s super white and ''almost flawless''. Many gals would rather have something that looks ''just as good'' and is bigger...but there are some smaller stone lovers too. Some girls are super interested in the specs of the stone (like many of the gals here!) and are interested in the nuances of diamonds, and some just want it to be big and sparkly. Others just want whatever their fiance-to-be gives them. What type of gal is yours? Personality wise.

Whatever you get, be happy with it--but try to feel out what her thoughts are!

One idea..though maybe this is too transparent..talk about a friend at work getting engaged and/or shopping for a ring. Say something like ''oh he wants to get his gf a 1.5c but I told him that was too big!''. See if she says ''WHAT? That''s not too big!'' or if she says ''Yeah I agree''. Then you have more info.

Just a thought.

 

[Texada]

Date: 6/12/2005 7:43:10 PM
Author: fire&ice
Tee hee. Honestly, I would just examine your parameters outside the box. Stop thinking that the perfect diamond is on paper. It isn''t. It''s that perfect diamond on her finger.

Good luck with whatever you choose! Another thing to mention, when you limit your scope to such tight parameters, your selection really becomes - well tight.

Thank you F&I,

As far as the tight parameters equalling tight selection equalling rarity, that''s what I find so charming! So intriguing! So romantic! Just as I don''t expect everyone to "get it", I also don''t think it''s too much to ask that people respect MY choice.

The perfect diamond on her finger. That''s it. I feel that when a relationship gets to this point, then the VALUE of the perfect diamond should be judged only by the emotion, the passion and the reason behind offering it, rather than the value that Rapaport places on it.



So...where were we? Does having a diamond with no culet subject the stone to damage?...

bryon

 

[Maxine]

preferred range for culet is none to pointed or very small.......never heard about culet of ANY size causing damage......
Very thin girdle could possibly be more likely to be damaged...either during setting or if diamond gets hit on the edge somehow.....