Electric cars ... something to consider ...

[kenny]

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped | Rowan Atkinson

Sadly, keeping your old petrol car may be better than buying an EV, says actor Rowan Atkinson

www.theguardian.com

 

[dk168]

In UK, the infrastructure for EVs is still very patchy, with one public charging point for as many as 85 cars in some areas!!!

I have a house and with its own drive, so I can install a charging point if I were to switch to an EV.

However, I have concerns about having to find charging points if I were to drive a long journey for work-related trips.

I shall wait a few more years before I switch to an EV, ideally, a self-charging one and not a hybrid as they are also being phased out eventually.

DK

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Where I live full EV just isn't feasible, it can't hold charge in our cold.
I love our Honda Hybrid. It's the best of both worlds, for now.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Interesting points. I understand installing a charging area in your own garage can be pricey too! No idea what the cost would be on your electric bill to fully charge a car either. 2030 is only seven years away - this industry will have to come a long way in a short time!

 

[kenny]

Another thing I don't see mentioned often ...
In your location, what is used to generate your electricity?

In 2021 here is where America's electricity is from:
61% coal, natural gas, and petroleum
19% from nuclear power
20% from renewable energy sources

Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained...y-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

That said, your EV is NOT really the clean vehicle it is hyped to be.

 

[Lookinagain]

However, I have concerns about having to find charging points if I were to drive a long journey for work-related trips.

Interesting points. I understand installing a charging area in your own garage can be pricey too! No idea what the cost would be on your electric bill to fully charge a car either. 2030 is only seven years away - this industry will have to come a long way in a short time!

these are some of the issues that I have thought about as well. Going EV sounds great in theory to me but also, as @kenny says, where your electricity comes from can make your EV not so clean. I guess if you put solar panels on your house and have your own charging station, then perhaps you've overcome these issues. But solar panels can be an issue for other reasons.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Gary's son is a machnic
he says every week they get Teslas in because they arnt charging fully
turns out the house just cant provide enough juice and need to upgrade their connections which is not cheap

 

[Rockdiamond]

I’ve owned a Tesla for a number of years.
The point about the sustainability…. Yes. Creating and disposing of the batteries is a mess waiting to happen. Furthermore - if one wanted to keep an electric vehicle for a long time, as opposed to leasing, you’d have to be extremely conscientious about charging. Battery memory.
But as far as utility- it’s amazing. We take long ski trips. No question that there’s diminished range in cold weather….but it has never been an insurmountable issue.
It seems to me that most trips are local. So range is less of an issue than most people assume generally.
Musk- or his people - were incredibly smart in terms of where they put superchargers. It seems like wherever we want to go, there’s superchargers along the way. And the car tells you where to stop.
It’s really similar to a gas powered car. You’ve got to be a bit dunderheaded to run out of either gas, or charge. ( raises hand as a dunderhead. I’ve run out of gas…… but thankfully never charge.

Gary's son is a machnic
he says every week they get Teslas in because they arnt charging fully
turns out the house just cant provide enough juice and need to upgrade their connections which is not cheap

Hmmmm- if you plug into a “normal” outlet (110volts) the car charges very slowly- gaining about 5 miles per hour of charging. That’s not really practical- and maybe what Gary’s son was talking about.
We installed a 220volt outlet to charge- so our car charges at about 25 miles gained per hour. Perfect for charging overnight.

 

[Ally T]

My car is a hybrid, but Mr T bought a fully electric car a couple of months ago. Planning his journeys has been challenging because as others have said, the charging system in the UK leaves a lot to be desired, though is getting better.

We are lucky enough to have been able to install solar on the new garage building, which goes directly to the car changers. There is a battery store in there too should it be particularly sunny, but also regular electricity to help boost through winter.

 

[diamondhoarder]

As another UK resident, I was frustrated to read various things in the press over the last week about how electric cars are likely to increase the problem of potholes on the roads.

Potholes are already a huge issue in the UK and our local government departments who are meant to be responsible for road maintenance are asleep on the job. You can be driving along a stretch of motorway at 70mph and suddenly drive over a huge hole in the road surface and no chance to avoid it without hitting other cars. Motorists are having their cars damaged every day because of this (I lost a tyre in the last month after hitting a particularly large pothole on a local road just after a bend.)

According to the press reports, EVs weigh significantly more than petrol vehicles (sometimes almost double) and this increased weight will apparently worsen existing potholes and speed up the deterioration of the UK roads in general, which are already in a terrible state. Yay.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@diamondhoarder ...interesting.
I have heard the same thing- but for different reasons....
Here in the US, taxes on gasoline are a large part of the funds used to keep up the roads. Less gas tax, less road maintenance.....
Never thought about the weight!

 

[Gloria27]

In UK, the infrastructure for EVs is still very patchy, with one public charging point for as many as 85 cars in some areas!!!

I have a house and with its own drive, so I can install a charging point if I were to switch to an EV.

However, I have concerns about having to find charging points if I were to drive a long journey for work-related trips.

I shall wait a few more years before I switch to an EV, ideally, a self-charging one and not a hybrid as they are also being phased out eventually.

DK

try this https://www.zap-map.com/live/

 

[VRBeauty]

I’ve has a plug-in hybrid (Ford C-Max energy) for several years now. In my house it’s still worthwhile to charge it and do most of my daily driving on the electric charge. At my hubby’s house, though, electricity is so expensive that it’s cheaper to just gas up.

We do a lot of long-distance travel so an electric car simply would not do as an only car. But - when we considered cars to replace my C-Max and serve as a tow vehicle for a small trailer, we decided on another plug-in hybrid. The extra torque/padding power will come in handy, and I really like the regeneration aspect -the fact that the car re-captures excess energy that would otherwise be wasted, for later use. The hybrid technology just makes sense even if I can’t always use the plug-in option.

 

[AprilBaby]

Two of my sons bought Tesla. Both complain the charging is terrible for long distance travel. One sold his Tesla and went back to a gas car because of it.

 

[telephone89]

I wouldn't personally have an electric car for home (canada is far too cold IMO!), but I had a Tesla when road tripping in the southern US and it was pretty great! I don't get the complaints about long distance travel, you have to fill up gas in normal cars anyways... The car found the "best" option for the route, though it was possible to adjust and pick a different one. I loved being able to skip most charges and just have it plugged in at night. I considered it like a cell phone LOL. Charge it every night, and sometimes you need an extra charger during the day.
I would definitely consider buying one when/if batteries improve in the extreme cold. I think my lifestyle would be great for an electric car in general.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I've taken some long, very cold ski trips in mine......no problem.
True, we did have to charge a bit more frequently....but you can:
1) warm up the car before you get in.....toasty buns with the seat heaters
2) watch Netflix while charging....fun
Without a doubt, the lack of superchargers in places like the UK completely changes the equation.

 

[tyty333]

My concerns...

What happens in states where they have evacuations due to hurricanes and a boatload of EVs are on the road and all need
charging at once? Is that an issue? The major roads tend to get bogged down due to so many people evacuating so it seems
like there may be the possibility to run out of juice if you are sitting in traffic. Not really sure how an evacuation is supposed
to work if most cars are EVs.

How long does it take to charge an EV when you're on the road?

 

[rainwood]

I just bought an EV - Nissan Ariya - and love it. I can plug it into my 220v already existing in my garage, and my electricity comes from hydro so is a renewable source. I don't really take long road trips so don't need to worry about that although my car has a 350-mile range so don't need to charge it very often.

If people want to find reasons not to buy an EV, they will. And companies heavily invested in gas cars are going to amplify those reasons. As for me, I'm really glad not to send carbon monoxide into the air, I'm really glad I don't have to go to gas stations and hand over lots of money to oil companies, I'm really glad I don't have to get an oil change, I'm really glad I can accelerate twice as fast when I need to. If I had to do it over, I'd buy my EV in a heartbeat. Love it!

 

[Rockdiamond]

How long does it take to charge an EV when you're on the road?

The Tesla SuperChargers give you between 250-500 miles range per hour charged.
Say you're heading on a trip from NYC to Miami.
The car will plan the route and you'll have to charge 10 times maybe....but if you think about it, stopping every couple hundred miles to rest, use the facilities, etc...watch a little Netflix on your giant screen
Or stop overnight at a hotel offering charging facilities.
If there's a "normal" charging station- 220volts..you get 25-40 miles per hour charged. These are far more common. Now that I'm conscious of it I see charging stations at more and more parking lots- hotels, restaurants, ski areas,etc,...

As far as emergency situations....seems like buying gas during an evacuation is very difficult too....I could easily see times when electricity is more readily available than gas.
I see companies now putting solar panels in the roof, so a car can self charge....
I'm with @rainwood ...and I have been a car lover my whole life...I can't see going back to ICE motoring....

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Sustaining charge in rural cold without station infrastructure is a real hinderance. Living in cold climes exacerbates the issue. You could easily lose charge and you can't plug it into a tree, and that's all there is around you.
It takes 30 mins to just the town/grocery and back. DH commute is 120 miles roundtrip daily.
We're only what other rurals consider semi rural.
We've had several friends have to give theirs up for hybrids because of commutes and degradation, even with 220v house chargers.
The loss of charge can be as little as 10% up to 40% charge range once temps. hit 20F or lower. It also degrades the chemicals/reactions in the battery over time.
My state's best temp range is maybe 90 days out the year for EV with little loss, in the Southern part of the state. The Northern part is like 30 or 40 days.
It's actually shorter trips that have the most loss. Most daily driving fall within those ranges here.
My state is very serious about renewables, we plan to be 100% by 2030. We're about 80% of the way there now. Heating is the issue.
We have the same issue with home heat pumps(this also warms the EV engine), which is why backup heating is still required in all homes with them. They fail in winter.
The good news is manfacturers are working on this.
My state is desperate for more efficient heat pumps for cars and homes as it's an integral part to solve our importing of gas to heat homes in isolation and cut energy costs.

The heat is still on at my house because we had another cold snap. It's normal here to have heat on full time until the beginning of June.

 

[Lookinagain]

We have the same issue with home heat pumps(this also warms the EV engine), which is why backup heating is still required in all homes with them. They fail in winter.
The heat is still on at my house because we had another cold snap. It's normal here to have heat on full time until the beginning of June.

ditto, my heat is on as well, and I've been investigating heat pumps and it seems I would still need back up heating.

It's funny because people are saying that charging stations abound, but honestly, I don't see many. And I'm in MA. so saying you have to charge isn't different from "filling up" doesn't quite seem right. There is a gas station on every street with commercial enterprises, I've yet to see one charging station on the main drag in my town. So to me, needing a charge may not be the exact thing as needing gas. I can let my gas tank get pretty low without fear of not finding a station. Maybe the lesson is that with EV you need to plan and think ahead more. And that may be worth it. I hadn't thought about it that way until now.

 

[Bron357]

Here in Australia a lot of money from tax on petrol goes into road maintenance. So with more and more electric cars, less income from petrol tax. What money then for road maintenance?
Also, in our older heritage areas, inner city, people don’t even have driveways. It’s street parking on “first in best dressed basis. Where can those people put a charge point? Plus in urban areas we have apartment blocks. Most are older. There’s nowhere to put a charge point for everyone who has an electric car. And most charging will take overnight so what about the other 20 electric cars in the complex? Some people have two cars, some have none, who pays for the infrastructure as with Strata complexes it’s ”everyone enjoys, everyone shares so everyone pays. Already we have issues with ordinary cars parking themselves in charging bays and being left there. We’ve introduced fines for public charging bays to stop petrol cars parking there but nothing stops someone with an electric car leaving it there for a week. So while it’s a fine theory knowing where all the charging points are when heading off on your long distance drive (in Australia we have long long distances between places) how do you know if a space will be there when you arrive and need it?
so that’s my issue with Electric cars.
Great for short distances and great if you have a private charging bay but otherwise problematic.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Well we are in a less than ideal climate for an electric car here considering how cold winter can get in the Northeast.

Also here in CT, Eversource, one of two major electricity suppliers in the state, raised its electric rates significantly right before winter started, the standard delivery rate went from 12.1 cents per kilowatt-hour to 24.2 cents per kWh, compared to 11.5 cents per kWh last winter. As a result many customers saw their bills increase 50% as of January 1st, that is a significant increase especially combined with inflation.

Taking that into consideration, we would be in a vulnerable position financially and give more profits to Eversource by buying an electric car. Doesn’t seem like the wise choice for us at this time.

 

[missy]

Another thing I don't see mentioned often ...
In your location, what is used to generate your electricity?

In 2021 here is where America's electricity is from:
61% coal, natural gas, and petroleum
19% from nuclear power
20% from renewable energy sources

Source: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained...y-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

That said, your EV is NOT really the clean vehicle it is hyped to be.

100 percent agree. My dh has been saying this from the beginning. He’s in the environmental field and says electricity is not the clean alternative politicians are making it out to be….plus he anticipates a shortage of electricity in the near future

 

[telephone89]

Well we are in a less than ideal climate for an electric car here considering how cold winter can get in the Northeast.

Also here in CT, Eversource, one of two major electricity suppliers in the state, raised its electric rates significantly right before winter started, the standard delivery rate went from 12.1 cents per kilowatt-hour to 24.2 cents per kWh, compared to 11.5 cents per kWh last winter. As a result many customers saw their bills increase 50% as of January 1st, that is a significant increase especially combined with inflation.

Taking that into consideration, we would be in a vulnerable position financially and give more profits to Eversource by buying an electric car. Doesn’t seem like the wise choice for us at this time.

24.2c?! Electric rates are one of the only reasons I'd want a EV, so I could charge cheaply at home. We pay 6.25c! Once you factor in all the fees it's still not cheap, but the fees are tacked on whether its used much or not at all.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

24.2c?! Electric rates are one of the only reasons I'd want a EV, so I could charge cheaply at home. We pay 6.25c! Once you factor in all the fees it's still not cheap, but the fees are tacked on whether its used much or not at all.

Our state is one of the most expensive for electricity, usually we are in the top five states for high electricity cost, Hawaii is always first. I’m not sure how it works where you are but here there is a delivery charge and a supplier charge. Eversource increased the delivery charge (the one you can’t change) which caused a lot of customers to find a lower cost supplier (because you can change to a different one) to offset the delivery charge increase. This was just in time for winter, now they are lowering the delivery charge for July 1st to December 31st and it will go back up again for the winter months.

It is a racket!

 

[Wink]

When I went on Social security, my wife and I opened a social security account and have the checks direct deposited.

When she needed a new vehicle, we we applied each month’s checks to the purchase of her car. Amazing how fast the payment disappears when you pay a bunch extra. When her car was paid off, she suggested I needed a new pickup for all of my hunting and fishing. Same deal.

Now, I could get an EV the same way, but I am a geezer and I do not like waiting to charge change and I have two fully functional cars without owing a dime. I want to thank all of you youngsters who bought the two vehicles for us, it was very kind of you…

 

[jaaron]

Quick reply because I'm running out, but we have a Tesla that is, I think 4 years old now, and the Tesla charging infrastructure in the UK is fantastic. We do have a home charger and wanted to put up solar panels but weren't allowed, so use an energy company as committed to renewable energy as possible. I know EVs aren't perfect, and there are some inconveniences and some long-term things to sort out, but IMO they're still preferable to spewing out exhaust every time you drive.

Re the people who say their Teslas stop charging properly, presumably they haven't ignored the advice to set a charging limit that stops it before the battery is full? We only ever charge ours to 100% if we're doing a long trip and honestly haven't lost any battery life in 4 years.

 

[Austina]

When we had our solar fitted last year, we also had an EV point in the garage, and a back up Tesla battery. We generate a large portion of our electricity through the solar. We‘ll never recoup the cost of the installation, because it’s unlikely we’re going to live another 30 years

 

[jaaron]

They've also now published a rebuttal

Fact check: why Rowan Atkinson is wrong about electric vehicles

Last week we ran a piece by Rowan Atkinson casting doubt on the environmental benefits of electric vehicles. Here Simon Evans of Carbon Brief offers his response

www.theguardian.com