Does relationship counseling really work?

[Tacori E-ring]

Sparkly, that doesn't sound like the best counselor. Marriage counselors need to be very careful about not siding or favoring one spouse over the other. Triangulation is NOT the goal!!! I am sorry you had such a negative experience. I can't believe she provoked you! I think part of the job of a good counselor IS to make therapy a good experience so if and when you need it again, you will go back to counseling.

 

[GingerP]

I would tend to agree with those who say that counseling should be more proactive/earlier before issues get too intense. I would also agree that it would work best with people who are open to it or feel vested enough to try even if they are not strong believers of counseling. I also feel that it might not save a marriage, but if the relationship is truly mismatched, counseling could offer realization about what each person did wrong or how they chose wrong in hopes that it would better arm them in the future.

This is quite timely, as I know a couple who have reached a boiling point--possibly a point of no return. So, I am curious, what do you all recommend when a young child is in the picture? When counseling is not a possibility or unlikely to help?

 

[Hera]

I believe (and agree) in individual counseling more than couples counseling. I think that if the person does more work on themselves and on their issues that they will become a better partner. I remember I spent a few years in therapy and every once in a while, I would bring my husband. They were the least productive of all my sessions.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Ginger, I would encourage the parents to send their child to a play therapist. Divorce is difficult on children, especially when they don't understand what is going on. Play therapy would provide a safe environment for the child to get out his/her frustrations and would form a positive attachment with another adult. My daughter is a "client" for a friend in a play therapy course and she LOVES it. She doesn't have any emotional issues (yet, I am sure) but the idea of having another adults undivided attention for 30 mins is really exciting for her. She asks to have more sessions ALL the time!

 

[iLander]

Didn't read all the posts . . .

It doesn't seem to work, based on the couples I've seen. It seems that if you need an outside mediator to talk, and you can't talk directly to each other, it's not much of a relationship. I've seen couples who encounter an issue, look at each other, and say "we'll talk about this at therapy". The counselor seems to become a crutch, and the couple can't seem to talk to each other at all. Then it becomes a weird three person relationship. One woman told me "It's the only safe place we can discuss things". How did their relationship become such a bad place that they can't even feel safe enough to talk? Most of the couples that I know used therapy as a way to delay the inevitable end to their relationship.

I do think it can be helpful in the beginning though. Some religions have pre-marital counseling, which I think is a MUST. I think it takes the rose-colored glasses off and helps people talk about the important stuff that they hadn't considered.

A++ on pre-marital therapy.

 

[Circe]

Ouch! Turning into (well, started out as) a judge-y kind of a thread!

Didn't read all the posts . . .

It seems that if you need an outside mediator to talk, and you can't talk directly to each other, it's not much of a relationship.

Alternately, it means you've encountered something you have no experience handling, alone or as a couple, and having someone who's experienced in grief counseling or the like walk you through the process can be a lifesaver. I'm getting kind of surprised at the things being said in this thread - I'd always thought of PS as being, well, supportive of the softer sciences. Good lord, we have serious threads about psychic phenomena, but relationship counseling is getting grief for being bunkum?

 

[iLander]

Ouch! Turning into (well, started out as) a judge-y kind of a thread!

Didn't read all the posts . . .

It seems that if you need an outside mediator to talk, and you can't talk directly to each other, it's not much of a relationship.

Alternately, it means you've encountered something you have no experience handling, alone or as a couple, and having someone who's experienced in grief counseling or the like walk you through the process can be a lifesaver. I'm getting kind of surprised at the things being said in this thread - I'd always thought of PS as being, well, supportive of the softer sciences. Good lord, we have serious threads about psychic phenomena, but relationship counseling is getting grief for being bunkum?

Sorry, Circe, not trying to imply it's bunk. I have very limited experience with it, so I am referring only to the couples that I know that went through it. It didn't help them, but I think that's because (IMHO) they really waited too long, and their resentments had grown to overshadow their entire relationship. They were barely civil by the time they went for help, and I don't know how they expected love to grow back after open hostility.

Again, my VERY limited experience.

I've personally seen grief counseling, addiction counseling, and personal psychotherapy really help people.

 

[Circe]

Sorry, Circe, not trying to imply it's bunk. I have very limited experience with it, so I am referring only to the couples that I know that went through it. It didn't help them, but I think that's because (IMHO) they really waited too long, and their resentments had grown to overshadow their entire relationship. They were barely civil by the time they went for help, and I don't know how they expected love to grow back after open hostility.

Again, my VERY limited experience.

I've personally seen grief counseling, addiction counseling, and personal psychotherapy really help people.

S'okay, iLander, it's not just you - the thread as a whole sort of has me scratching my head. I do wonder if it's some kind of selective perception thing - a lot of people seem to have the friends or friends-of-friends who tried counseling and imploded spectacularly. I do wonder what that implies ('cause, dudes, I don't think it's that counseling is a racket). To me that either says the couples who make it work keep their dirty linens to themselves in general (you don't see them fight, you don't hear about their therapy sessions, etc.), or maybe simply that as a whole, we tend to remember the negative examples a lot more clearly than the positive ones. I mean, me, I'm terrified of SSRIs because I've seen so many friends have terrible times trying to come off them: my brain tends to sort of skim over the people who are on them happy and depression-free for years and years and years.

 

[stepcutgirl]

When I was 10 my parents were having problems and my dad moved out for 6 months and during that time my parents went to couples counseling. When he moved back in they were like newlyweds and are still that was 20 years later, so I have a positive opinion of couples counseling, but also feel you shouldn't wait until you've decided to check out to go.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Good lord, we have serious threads about psychic phenomena, but relationship counseling is getting grief for being bunkum?

 

[jaysonsmom]

When I was 10 my parents were having problems and my dad moved out for 6 months and during that time my parents went to couples counseling. When he moved back in they were like newlyweds and are still that was 20 years later, so I have a positive opinion of couples counseling, but also feel you shouldn't wait until you've decided to check out to go.

Well, what I learned from this thread I started was that there are good therapists and there are the not so good, and each individual case is different. I have considered counseling with my husband because we grew up with very different backgrounds, and butt heads in a lot of things, such as religion etc. I guess I

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Ouch! Turning into (well, started out as) a judge-y kind of a thread!

Didn't read all the posts . . .

It seems that if you need an outside mediator to talk, and you can't talk directly to each other, it's not much of a relationship.

Alternately, it means you've encountered something you have no experience handling, alone or as a couple, and having someone who's experienced in grief counseling or the like walk you through the process can be a lifesaver. I'm getting kind of surprised at the things being said in this thread - I'd always thought of PS as being, well, supportive of the softer sciences. Good lord, we have serious threads about psychic phenomena, but relationship counseling is getting grief for being bunkum?

Sorry, Circe, not trying to imply it's bunk. I have very limited experience with it, so I am referring only to the couples that I know that went through it. It didn't help them, but I think that's because (IMHO) they really waited too long, and their resentments had grown to overshadow their entire relationship. They were barely civil by the time they went for help, and I don't know how they expected love to grow back after open hostility.

Again, my VERY limited experience.

I've personally seen grief counseling, addiction counseling, and personal psychotherapy really help people.

Limited experience. How many people are we talking about? Two? Twenty?

 

[Gypsy]

I do think that most couples seek counseling to late, or with motives that aren't in line with what therapy is really about.

I think that both parties need to understand that relationships are WORK. ALL OF THEM. And that that therapy is a tool that exposes where you are NOT working, and you have to be really honest to admit to that stuff. AND it is to show you how to interact healthier. So... really, you gotta understand therapy is more WORK. And it can be very uncomfortable and... in the short term it WILL expose conflict and in the long term it will help you resolve it, at least that's the goal. So it's a process you have to commit to. Using it as a validation tool so you have 'backup'... not a good idea. A good therapist will tell you that you need confidence in yourself and will validate some of what you are saying, but will also validate some of what he is saying. Like I said, in the short term you might see MORE conflict (sometimes limited to when you are in session) but hopefully, controlled conflict that helps you in the long term.

Conflict isn't good or bad. Sometimes it can be good. But you should have a very clear level setting discussion with your therapist with your SO, so that you both understand the process. And BOTH commit to it. Without commitment, it's a waste of time and money.

I think the reason so many people here see the 'bad' of therapy... is that it takes strength and commitment to work through the problems and conflicts that therapy exposes. Many people, by the time they get to therapy, have lost the patience or the willingness to work through MORE conflict and just give up, on therapy and the relationship. They leave the process unfinished at the worst point. It's like having ONE radiation treatment and declaring it hokum because you aren't cured of cancer. Then telling your friends radiation is BS because it didn't work and also because it was painful. And just like radiation, it will have a fail rate. Some couples aren't meant to be be together anymore (if they ever will).

Sometimes, divorce is a successful outcome of therapy. A therapist isn't going to be able to wave a magic wand and create what isn't there. Sometimes the healthiest thing is to lose the limb and move on.

 

[monarch64]

Ditto Gypsy.

I think that couples CAN be successful with couples therapy if they are both after the same goals, or wants in life.

OP, you asked for success stories. It's harder to come up with examples of success stories than it is to come up with failures, of course, but I can think of two couples I've known in my life who have actually hosted something called Marriage Builders courses. One couple was in their fifties, both were previously married. The second couple had each never been married. I don't subscribe to the MB courses myself, but it seems (from what I've observed) to provide some help to couples in need.

For the record, my ex husband and I went to two couples counseling sessions and it was a disaster. Eh, what can ya do? Sometimes you just can't fix things.

 

[GingerP]

Ginger, I would encourage the parents to send their child to a play therapist. Divorce is difficult on children, especially when they don't understand what is going on. Play therapy would provide a safe environment for the child to get out his/her frustrations and would form a positive attachment with another adult. My daughter is a "client" for a friend in a play therapy course and she LOVES it. She doesn't have any emotional issues (yet, I am sure) but the idea of having another adults undivided attention for 30 mins is really exciting for her. She asks to have more sessions ALL the time!

Thank you, Tacori! I have never heard of play therapy, but if things escalate I'll suggest it. I wish that there wasn't such a stigma against counseling in general (especially in certain cultures), so that the parents might consider it. Ultimately, it is they who could benefit most from it at this point, which could in turn help the child regardless. At minimum I wish they would be willing to try before just tossing their hands up and giving up on everything before doing all they could. It obviously helps at least some people even if not all.

Good luck in your future career! It seems like you're very dedicated and likely to become one of the good (if not great) ones.

 

[HollyS]

Haven't been. Don't feel a need to go.

But I will say this: Friends of ours are getting exactly squat out of it. Could be their own fault . . . or not. And at least one recent poster has shared some astonishingly stupid stuff that her couples therapist has said. So, I'd say the poster and her guy aren't being helped either.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Ginger, thank you. I am really enjoying it. It is an honor to be part of the process of someone changing in positive ways. There always will be bad therapists. There always will be reluctant and difficult clients. Some people are quite comfortable in the land of denial and I cannot and will not push them to places they are not ready to go. I am not a play therapist but have taken a filio therapy course (for parents to conduct play therapy with their children) and it was a wonderful experience. Children need a safe place to get out their frustrations just like adults. One of my professors is a play therapist who uses puppets. She has had amazing results with them.

 

[iLander]

I think this thread does make a good point about vetting the "professionals' that you choose to work with. Also, I think it was the old thread about the therapist that told her client to sleep around that brings this to my mind.

I make it a big deal to check into a doctor's professional background, educational background, etc. My husband had a very successful back surgery because I did a lot of googling for board certifications, etc. I talked to another woman who "just went to the surgeon that her GP sent her to", and a year after surgery she still has spinal fluid leaking. Same procedure. She's on her third surgery (from the same surgeon!) and in a lot of pain. I googled her doctor and found he lost his license in his previous state, but the records were sealed.

I think, with a professional,qualified, highly vetted, therapist, there are some good results, if a couple want to work and are willing to work early on.

Of the four couples that I know that tried therapy, they all ended up apart. But, honestly, I saw four different couples who could barely stand each other, and I think it was WAY past the point of helping them. One couple talked openly to DH and I about their problems, and I cheerfully said "Oh, you guys will make it. You'll be together forever!" The look of abject horror that crossed both their faces, told me that was absolutely NOT what they wanted. It took them another year, but they eventually separated.

So, I will clarify my earlier remarks by saying that if you find a true professional, with skill and intelligence, therapy can work for those that really want it to work.

I recommend Tacori

 

[Tacori E-ring]

ilander, you are sweet. A good therapist never gives direct advice so no fears of me telling anyone to sleep around. You always should research a professional. Unfortunately just b/c someone has a degree, it does not make them qualified, or at least *good* at what they do. I go to school with some people who will not be good therapists. Period. It is not about me judging or thinking I am better than, it is about knowing their personality, their morals, their knowledge, will not carry them. One in particular needs to be hospitalized for depression. I had to do an informal suicide contract with her. She is practicing on clients That is scary. Everyone needs to be their own advocate.

As for your friends, some people don't make it. They could have had the best therapist known to man but that can't make people love each other. I think it takes a lot of courage to ask for help. **Divorce to me isn't proof of bad couples counseling.** Maybe they would have stayed in a loveless marriage for years if therapy hasn't given them the strength to end things. I am all about people finding happiness and peace.

 

[slg47]

ilander, you are sweet. A good therapist never gives direct advice so no fears of me telling anyone to sleep around. You always should research a professional. Unfortunately just b/c someone has a degree, it does not make them qualified, or at least *good* at what they do. I go to school with some people who will not be good therapists. Period. It is not about me judging or thinking I am better than, it is about knowing their personality, their morals, their knowledge, will not carry them. One in particular needs to be hospitalized for depression. I had to do an informal suicide contract with her. She is practicing on clients That is scary. Everyone needs to be their own advocate.

As for your friends, some people don't make it. They could have had the best therapist known to man but that can't make people love each other. I think it takes a lot of courage to ask for help. **Divorce to me isn't proof of bad couples counseling.** Maybe they would have stayed in a loveless marriage for years if therapy hasn't given them the strength to end things. I am all about people finding happiness and peace.

tacori, this is why I think you will make a great therapist. sounds like a very healthy outlook to me!

 

[risingsun]

There has been a lot of good feedback in this thread, which I will try not to repeat. My experience has been that couples present themselves to treatment with the idea that the therapist will "fix" their problems. Couples need an orientation regarding how therapy works and how to develop realistic goals. Many couples need to do individual work, prior to couples counseling. If not, you find that they act out their issues during the couples work. Although that will happen with most couples, when there are no significant individual issues, it becomes impossible to engage in couples work when there is a great deal of individual material, which needs attention first. Therapists don't fix broken relationships. We try to teach the couple skills to use in repairing their relationships. Depending upon your theory, this make take different forms. Both partners need to be completely commtted to the process. Most times, one partner is committed to the process and the other is not. Within several sessions you get a fairly accurate picture of how therapy is going to progress. I believe that therapy, which ends a relationship, is a very legitimate use of couples counseling. It brings couples to a realization that they have either had or sense that there is something wrong. This is a successful outcome. There was a couple I worked with who were truly committed to their marriage and to therapy. It did work for them. They entered with a certain mindset and a positive attitude. I worked with another couple who did not follow recommendations, could not see progress in each other and were angry all the time. They lacked respect for each other. I finally told them there was nothing more that I could do for them. They had to decide if they wanted to stay together and do the work required. I expect that they will stay together and be miserable. Some couples are fundamentally incompatible. That doesn't make one person wrong and the other one right. It means that they are not a good fit for each other. They may love each other and be unable to meet each other's needs. These are very emotional cases. You want to wave a "magic therapy wand"and make it alright for them, but you can't.
I think that a lot of people blame their counselor for not fixing them. That's not what we do. You have to give us something to work with and then engage in the process with a strong desire to succeed. You must respect each other and value the relationship. If you do not, then you may succeed in a different way. You may leave a relationship that is not going to work.

 

[galeteia]

I am really intrigued by the notion of couples counselling being like any other preventative health measure- like a physical, pap, teeth cleaning/inspection ... would it be useful to have a semi-regular tune-up? Would it make mountains out of molehills, or would it combat the natural buildup of grime from day-to-day living?

It's an interesting thought. I think that by the time most people are ready to consider it, it's already too late.

 

[House Cat]

I have been taught that we choose our partners on a very primal, subconcious level. We choose them to work out childhood struggles that we had with our parents. At best, we are able to work out those struggles with our (understanding) partner and heal. At worst, our partner personifies that struggle x10 and we suffer greatly. This is the reason that some people seem to choose the same person again and again. It is also the reason why relationships might be really painful for some. But with this knowledge, it would make sense that some people would need relationship counseling to navigate through these struggles.

Relationships can be a platform for healing and growth, if both partners are willing to be understanding to the idea.


My therapist recommends a type of therapy called EFT for Couples. http://www.iceeft.com/ It is supposed to be highly effective and quick. There is a "find a therapist" tab on the website.

 

[Aoife]

I have been taught that we choose our partners on a very primal, subconcious level. We choose them to work out childhood struggles that we had with our parents. At best, we are able to work out those struggles with our (understanding) partner and heal. At worst, our partner personifies that struggle x10 and we suffer greatly. This is the reason that some people seem to choose the same person again and again. It is also the reason why relationships might be really painful for some. But with this knowledge, it would make sense that some people would need relationship counseling to navigate through these struggles.

Relationships can be a platform for healing and growth, if both partners are willing to be understanding to the idea.


My therapist recommends a type of therapy called EFT for Couples. http://www.iceeft.com/ It is supposed to be highly effective and quick. There is a "find a therapist" tab on the website.

Wow, that is an enormous generalization. I don't doubt that this might fit some individuals, but any theory of treatment that has this as its primary assumption really puts up red flags all over the place.

 

[Hera]

I have been taught that we choose our partners on a very primal, subconcious level. We choose them to work out childhood struggles that we had with our parents. At best, we are able to work out those struggles with our (understanding) partner and heal. At worst, our partner personifies that struggle x10 and we suffer greatly. This is the reason that some people seem to choose the same person again and again. It is also the reason why relationships might be really painful for some. But with this knowledge, it would make sense that some people would need relationship counseling to navigate through these struggles.

Relationships can be a platform for healing and growth, if both partners are willing to be understanding to the idea.


My therapist recommends a type of therapy called EFT for Couples. http://www.iceeft.com/ It is supposed to be highly effective and quick. There is a "find a therapist" tab on the website.

Wow, that is an enormous generalization. I don't doubt that this might fit some individuals, but any theory of treatment that has this as its primary assumption really puts up red flags all over the place.

I know that there are some relationships that are like this that are quite unhealthy as it is not a healthy thing to work out negative childhood conflicts with spouses. However, I do believe parents have a part in our selection of our spouses. I was once told that we can select spouses that are similar to the parent we were most connected to and thus in marriage will (hopefully) have a relationship of comfort and support. I believe that as I look around at my relationship and the relationships around me. They both exist but I think that unhealthy relationships don't have much success because our spouses should not be a source of negative conflict in our lives.

eta: I think if you have a relationship where you're working out you childhood struggles, it's best to seek individual counseling to work on your own issues. My own personal belief is that couples counseling is useful for learning communication skills and such but for deep, personal issues, individual counseling is best.

 

[risingsun]

I have been taught that we choose our partners on a very primal, subconcious level. We choose them to work out childhood struggles that we had with our parents. At best, we are able to work out those struggles with our (understanding) partner and heal. At worst, our partner personifies that struggle x10 and we suffer greatly. This is the reason that some people seem to choose the same person again and again. It is also the reason why relationships might be really painful for some. But with this knowledge, it would make sense that some people would need relationship counseling to navigate through these struggles.

Relationships can be a platform for healing and growth, if both partners are willing to be understanding to the idea.


My therapist recommends a type of therapy called EFT for Couples. http://www.iceeft.com/ It is supposed to be highly effective and quick. There is a "find a therapist" tab on the website.

I have a wonderful book on this topic, which was written from a Jungian perspective and supports much of what you have said. I have to look for it. It's with my boxes from when I packed up my office. I think you would find it very interesting. I will do my best to find it. There are many theories of marriage and family counseling. Some therapists stay with one theory, while others use a more integrated approach. It is useful to ask the therapist about their approach and how it works during the therapeutic process.

I want to quote from another book we read in graduate school:

The discovery human beings make very early in life, much earlier than our ability to articulate it, is that genuine personal presence is life-giving. The relationship with another who is responding to me in ways that take my personhood seriously elicits my sense of well-being, my creativity, my capacity for reciprocity, my desire to care.

This is from Between Two Gardens, by James B. Nelson.