Do you think the legal drinking age should be lowered?

[musey]

Date: 8/19/2008 6:50:27 PM
Author: somethingshiny

Date: 8/19/2008 5:46:15 PM
Author: VegasAngel
I dont think it was being compared to drinking age just a general question. Maybe I read wrong.

Yes, my 'hotel' question was just a general question. DH and I had to have his parents rent our honeymoon suite when we got married at 19 and 21. I always thought it was really odd that you could get married legally, but you couldn't have a honeymoon in your own name.

Sorry, I guess I just assumed that since this was a thread discussing the drinking age, the posts would all be in relation to the original topic, that's why I read it as a comparison.

Regardless... SS, what year were you married in? The rules must have changed, or you happened to book at a hotel/locale that has stricter rules than most. I've been traveling and booking my own flights/hotels/cars/etc. since age 19, and never run into a single roadblock.

Date: 8/19/2008 6:50:27 PM
Author: somethingshiny
I'm not saying it's right or it's what I'll do, but I'd rather my child learn his limitations in a safe environment rather than out gallavanting with Shmo and getting into trouble.

Ditto.

 

[somethingshiny]

Date: 8/19/2008 6:57:21 PM
Author: musey

Date: 8/19/2008 6:50:27 PM

Author: somethingshiny

Date: 8/19/2008 5:46:15 PM

Author: VegasAngel


Sorry, I guess I just assumed that since this was a thread discussing the drinking age, the posts would all be in relation to the original topic, that''s why I read it as a comparison.


Regardless... SS, what year were you married in? The rules must have changed, or you happened to book at a hotel/locale that has stricter rules than most. I''ve been traveling and booking my own flights/hotels/cars/etc. since age 19, and never run into a single roadblock.

Date: 8/19/2008 6:50:27 PM

Sorry, sometimes ideas just freely pour out of me...and guess who gets to deal with them...YOU GUYS!!

I was married in 99 in IL. And, we had to stay in a airport hotel because we couldn''t rent a car to get to the airport the next morning.

 

[princesss]

Date: 8/19/2008 4:43:19 PM
Author: musey
My personal opinion is that the drinking age should be lower than the driving age. My biggest concern with lowering the drinking age would be that a bunch of new(ish) drivers would also be new drinkers.


So, rather than give them a couple years to get used to the idea of driving before handing them a drink, it might be smarter to give them a couple years to get used to the idea of drinking responsibly before handing them a driver''s license. I think if people learned how alcohol effects their functioning before they begin learning to drive, it may help them to better understand why driving under the influence is a bad idea.


That also may mean that teens would be learning to partake in drinking under a stronger watch from their parents (since they wouldn''t have the freedom to drive themselves to parties, etc.), which in turn makes it less taboo.


So, whatever the age is when alcohol stops having an effect on cognitive development, that should be the legal drinking age. The driving age should be 1 or more years after that.



IMHO

ETA: I was allowed to drink under parental supervision from about the age of 13. Before that I''d been given sips to ''try'' it. It held no ''taboo'' for me, other than the knowledge that it was illegal for me to do it, but my parents'' ''okay'' was like a free pass to me then (it wasn''t like I''d be reported). I never drank outside the house until I was 19 and in college, and even then it was always in a very responsible fashion. I''ve never gotten in trouble with drinking. (This is true of my two older brothers, as well.)


A bunch of my close friends from high school had parents that never let them ''try'' alcohol, and they were expected to wait until they reached the legal age to do so. A large percentage of them snuck around to drink in HS, and became major binge drinkers in college.


So obviously, that colors my opinions on drinking age laws. Not saying it applies universally.

BIG FAT DITTO.

Lower the drinking age for beer and wine to 16. Raise the driving age to 18. Implement better public transportation (should be done anyways). Then make the drunk driving laws SUPER STIFF.

Seriously, I doubt that lowering the drinking age will increase the amount of issues with college kids drinking. The people that are going to binge drink already do, and the more taboo (and, therefore, exciting) alcohol is, the more it will be abused. If you bring it into the open, and have a few years where people are still at home with (hopefully) good influences and having a drink or two is a normal thing, I really think it would teach more responsibility than making people wait to be able to do something legally.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 8/19/2008 7:16:06 PM
Author: somethingshiny

Date: 8/19/2008 6:57:21 PM
Author: musey

Date: 8/19/2008 6:50:27 PM

Author: somethingshiny

Date: 8/19/2008 5:46:15 PM

Author: VegasAngel


Sorry, I guess I just assumed that since this was a thread discussing the drinking age, the posts would all be in relation to the original topic, that''s why I read it as a comparison.


Regardless... SS, what year were you married in? The rules must have changed, or you happened to book at a hotel/locale that has stricter rules than most. I''ve been traveling and booking my own flights/hotels/cars/etc. since age 19, and never run into a single roadblock.

Date: 8/19/2008 6:50:27 PM

Sorry, sometimes ideas just freely pour out of me...and guess who gets to deal with them...YOU GUYS!!

I was married in 99 in IL. And, we had to stay in a airport hotel because we couldn''t rent a car to get to the airport the next morning.

Yeah, the age limit for hotels vary by the property. Man, so you couldnt book your own room or get a car on your honeymoon that stinks.

It was still fun I hope.

We all veer off topic sometimes, oh well

 

[Tuckins1]

I absolutely think the age should not be lowered. Although I drank under age, I was not mature enough to handle that responsibility and did some very irresponsible things, as did my friends. Actually, I question if half of the "of age" people I know can handle the responsibility!!

 

[movie zombie]

yes i think the age for drinking should be lowered: at 18 one can marry, vote, be drafted and/or enlist, get a drivers licence. while in the service that individual can drink [on base] and carry a weapon. therefore, i believe that one should be able to legally drink at age 18.

movie zombie

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/19/2008 9:30:13 PM
Author: Tuckins1
I absolutely think the age should not be lowered. Although I drank under age, I was not mature enough to handle that responsibility and did some very irresponsible things, as did my friends. Actually, I question if half of the ''of age'' people I know can handle the responsibility!!

Exactly - a lot of people of age still can''t handle the responsibility, so it isn''t limited to 18 year olds.

So why tell someone they are adult, and then say, "well, except that." ???

 

[somethingshiny]

Okay, here''s a new can of worms.


Many agree that the drinking age should be lowered. Quite a few feel 16 would be a good age.

SO, How would you feel if your babysitter brought over a bottle of wine when she came to watch your kids. I''m not saying getting drunk, just enjoying a cocktail after the kids are in bed. (keeping in mind that if 16 were the legal age, they would also be permitted to drive within the state regulated tolerance.) OR for that matter, what if he/she showed up after having a couple. Yes you could refuse to have them watch your child, and no one would blame you if you did. But, the fact is, it''s not a worry for most of us now, but certainly would be if it were legal.

Personally, I wouldn''t mind if one of my adult friends had a drink if they were watching my child, but I would have a HUGE issue with a 16 yr old having that same drink.

 

[musey]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:33:32 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Okay, here's a new can of worms.

Many agree that the drinking age should be lowered. Quite a few feel 16 would be a good age.

SO, How would you feel if your babysitter brought over a bottle of wine when she came to watch your kids. I'm not saying getting drunk, just enjoying a cocktail after the kids are in bed. (keeping in mind that if 16 were the legal age, they would also be permitted to drive within the state regulated tolerance.) OR for that matter, what if he/she showed up after having a couple. Yes you could refuse to have them watch your child, and no one would blame you if you did. But, the fact is, it's not a worry for most of us now, but certainly would be if it were legal.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if one of my adult friends had a drink if they were watching my child, but I would have a HUGE issue with a 16 yr old having that same drink.

I don't understand the difference

does a 16-year-old have a lower tolerance?

I still watch one of our friends' kids occasionally, and I would never drink any amount of alcohol beforehand, just on principle. So for me, the rules would be the same regardless of the age of my sitter.

Date: 8/19/2008 10:38:10 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
Most of you know I have four children, two of four of them drank before they were out of high school so badly so that they both agreed it was STUPID and IMMATURE and they both regret having done so. Because alcoholism runs on both sides of our families it has been a severe struggle for two of them NOT to drink. Only one of my oldest children refuses to even consider alcohol.. and good for him.

My youngest is 17, almost 18 and I cannot FATHOM him at 18 years old and a high school JUNIOR legally drinking alcohol. He is not mature enough. He might have a man's body but he is far from being a man.

Maybe I'm a weirdo (and I'm not arguing that it's stupid to take that first drink if your family has a history of alcoholism), but I just don't get the difference.

I remember being offered wine/champagne at family dinners as young as 13. I don't think my 'immaturity' caused me to get hooked on it, or over-indulge. For that matter, even at 13-20, if I was offered it I didn't always accept it just because it was a novelty or something. I'd accept if I was in the mood, and not if I wasn't. I'm the same way now.

The only thing that's changed for me re: alcohol between age 13 and age 23 is that now I can buy my own, and can drink it even outside of my parents' watch. I don't look at it any differently, indulge any more or less, or even have a different level of tolerance as far as I can tell... it's all the same.

Maybe I'm a weirdo, though!

 

[somethingshiny]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:43:47 PM
Author: musey

Date: 8/19/2008 10:33:32 PM


I don't understand the difference

does a 16-year-old have a lower tolerance?

If judging tolerance by weight, then most likely a 16 yr old would have a lower tolerance. My question was would you be upset if you had a KID drinking and watching your kid. 16 yr olds aren't known for their great decision making as it is.



eta~ As I've said, I was allowed to drink at home from a very young age. It was my maturity that allowed me to not get into drinking. I watched both of my parents become stumbling alcoholics and I knew that was not going to be in the cards for me.

But, I've known a lot of 16 yr olds who have "something to prove", and a "good" way to prove it seems to be how much liquor they can hold.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:33:32 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Okay, here''s a new can of worms.



Many agree that the drinking age should be lowered. Quite a few feel 16 would be a good age.


SO, How would you feel if your babysitter brought over a bottle of wine when she came to watch your kids. I''m not saying getting drunk, just enjoying a cocktail after the kids are in bed. (keeping in mind that if 16 were the legal age, they would also be permitted to drive within the state regulated tolerance.) OR for that matter, what if he/she showed up after having a couple. Yes you could refuse to have them watch your child, and no one would blame you if you did. But, the fact is, it''s not a worry for most of us now, but certainly would be if it were legal.


Personally, I wouldn''t mind if one of my adult friends had a drink if they were watching my child, but I would have a HUGE issue with a 16 yr old having that same drink.

I would imagine that it would be the same as if any employee were to drink before or during work where there were rules not to do so. Lots [if not most?] of adults work jobs where they are not permitted to drink before or during work; if you wanted to extend the same rules to a babysitter working for you, that shouldn''t be a problem.

Personally, when I was a little kid I was never babysat by anyone who wasn''t an adult anyways, and certainly no one who was known to have been drinking previous to showing up.

People can go on and on about how people under 21 "aren''t responsible" but that''s nothing more than a huge generalization. If you''re responsible enough to carry a gun it doesn''t make sense you wouldn''t be responsible enough to have a glass of wine.

 

[somethingshiny]

Wishful, I stated that if the age were 16, not 18. I don''t have a problem with 18 being a legal limit, but 16 I do. And, like I said, you would obviously have "rules" about drinking, but as the age stands at 21, I don''t wonder if the neighbor girl is planning on drinking. IF the age were 16, that would be one more worry for me.

btw-I started babysitting when I was 9. I was a very responsible person because I was forced to be. However, as "generalized" as it may be, I know that the majority of teens aren''t prepared to accept the consequences of drinking. legal or not.

 

[Haven]

Date: 8/19/2008 5:53:28 PM
Author: WishfulThinking

I think the driving age is WAY too low, though.

I AGREE! Scientific American Mind mag had a great article about the adolescent brain last year. It discussed how the adolescent brain is literally unable to process certain things the way the adult brain processes, which is one reason why adolescents are more likely to get into car accidents.

As for the OP, I think the issue in the US is less the legal age and more cultural. I do not believe the rhetoric that lowering the drinking age will make it less taboo and therefore kids will drink less. They''ll still drink, trust me. I grew up with many privileged kids whose parents were more concerned with being their friends than their parents, and many of them allowed us to drink in their homes during HS. Many of those same kids went to college and became huge binge drinkers. Some of them are still binge drinkers. It''s going to take an overhaul of the American psyche and the way we approach alcohol to change the way our young adults use and abuse it. How do we achieve this? I have no idea. I''m just sick of losing our teenagers (and my students) to drunk driving accidents.

 

[Haven]

Date: 8/19/2008 1:46:28 PM
Author: ksinger
What becomes clear to me at least, from this discussion, is that the real issue is not the drinking age per se, but the cultural attitudes towards alcohol. Could it be perhaps, that America has always had an ambivalent attitude towards alcohol consumption, both culturally and religiously? (We tried prohibition after all.) An ambivalence that Europe has never really shared, and judging by the responses here, just can''t quite understand. Give up wine? Quelle horreur!!

And could it be that there are cultural differences in how we raise our children?


Until that is changed, or at least acknowledged, I don''t see a 3 year fluctuation of the legal drinking age one way or the other doing a whole lot...

I should have read the entire thread before I replied, because then I could have saved you all my drivel and just said:
DITTO! to ksinger.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:56:17 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Wishful, I stated that if the age were 16, not 18. I don''t have a problem with 18 being a legal limit, but 16 I do. And, like I said, you would obviously have ''rules'' about drinking, but as the age stands at 21, I don''t wonder if the neighbor girl is planning on drinking. IF the age were 16, that would be one more worry for me.


btw-I started babysitting when I was 9. I was a very responsible person because I was forced to be. However, as ''generalized'' as it may be, I know that the majority of teens aren''t prepared to accept the consequences of drinking. legal or not.

I know what you meant, something shiny. I was just pointing out that people of all ages, including adults, must show up to work sober and behave properly while performing the jobs they were hired to perform. Honestly, if I were you I *would* wonder if the neighbor girl was planning on drinking. 16 year olds drink, even those that are seen as "good kids". It''s not legal, but that doesn''t mean they don''t do it.

I don''t think a lot of people [perhaps the majority of people?] are prepared to accept the consequences of drinking, especially in the United States. I see it much more as a cultural issue than one of age.

Haven- I agree with you completely about the cultural issue. I realized that as I was typing my answer above! We do have exceptionally odd ways of dealing with alcohol problems in this country. 4 kids in my area died in a drunk driving accident last night and everyone seems at such a loss about what to do. What can we do, really?

 

[Haven]

I have a huge problem with the "I'd rather have my underage child try (illegal) things under my own roof so I can have some control over the situation" philosophy. I think this is irresponsible and it only makes your (underage, immature) children think that they are capable of handling themselves while doing "adult" things both inside and outside of your home. Not to mention it gives them the idea that the rules do not apply to them, or they only apply to them in public situations.

My own parents had this philosophy and they allowed us to drink in their home. It undermined their authority and the law's, in my opinion. And as parents, I think their chief concern should have been to protect me from making bad choices by modeling certain values and beliefs, not enabling me to make those bad choices because I could only take them so far if I was in their home.

ETA: I'm talking about parents who let their kids have drinking parties in their own home, here, not a drink or two of wine with dinner. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:33:32 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Okay, here's a new can of worms.



Many agree that the drinking age should be lowered. Quite a few feel 16 would be a good age.


SO, How would you feel if your babysitter brought over a bottle of wine when she came to watch your kids. I'm not saying getting drunk, just enjoying a cocktail after the kids are in bed. (keeping in mind that if 16 were the legal age, they would also be permitted to drive within the state regulated tolerance.) OR for that matter, what if he/she showed up after having a couple. Yes you could refuse to have them watch your child, and no one would blame you if you did. But, the fact is, it's not a worry for most of us now, but certainly would be if it were legal.


Personally, I wouldn't mind if one of my adult friends had a drink if they were watching my child, but I would have a HUGE issue with a 16 yr old having that same drink.

Uh, what?

How would you feel about any of-age employee coming to work with a bottle wine for lunchtime or showing up having had a few?

What you are asking about has nothing to do with the legal drinking age and there is nothing preventing 16 year olds from showing up drunk to watch your kids if they are stupid enough to do so.

Do people honestly think that raising the drinking age/a high drinking age keeps underage kids from drinking? Hello! It already doesn't, just like preaching abstinence doesn't work, it just makes kids' behaviours more unsafe because they aren't steeped in safe sex practices.

The whole point that pro-lowering posters are making is that lack of taboo encourages responsible drinking habits whereas forbidden activities are more likely to be practiced unsafely and to excess.

Seriously, this kind of straw man argument makes me exasperated.

 

[Haven]

Date: 8/19/2008 11:05:06 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
Haven- I agree with you completely about the cultural issue. I realized that as I was typing my answer above! We do have exceptionally odd ways of dealing with alcohol problems in this country. 4 kids in my area died in a drunk driving accident last night and everyone seems at such a loss about what to do. What can we do, really?

I have no idea! We bring in the car wreck for homecoming assembly, the guy who was thrown in jail for years and now has to do community service because he killed his best friend while driving drunk, we do the all-day simulation where selected students wear all black and it''s announced that one died every however-many-teens-die-per-hour-due-to-drunk-driving over the loud speaker. We model happy, productive lives. We offer hundreds of sports and activities. We give them all the support and opportunity we possibly can. And they still drink. And they still kill themselves and each other behind the wheel.

We''ve lost several kids over the last few years. It is an epidemic, and I certainly have no idea how to stop it.

 

[musey]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:58:26 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
You're not weird. But.. I refuse to provide alcohol to a minor. One, its against the law and two, I have seen what can happen. If its traditional for your family to allow children to drink then so be it, I'm just saying there's a responsibility most teenagers simply do not have.

I guess. My parents took a very straightforward approach to raising us: we were permitted to try alcohol, taught about sex practically from birth, never given a strict curfew... and yet none of us ever drank irresponsibly (and never outside the home until mid-college), never slept around (and waited quite a long time compared to most to "do it"

) or became unwed parents, and really never came home past 11pm without expressed permission.

I've always attributed our early maturity and sense of responsibility to the way our parents raised us, but perhaps it was more nature than nurture.

I don't think that parents giving a glass of wine to a child whom they've deemed responsible and mature enough to handle it (that being the deciding factor) is harmful. Yes, illegal, but there are many laws that the vast majority of people scoff at (like the law in Louisiana that firefighters are not allowed to curse) and in some families/cultures this is one of them. I'm not saying it doesn't have its purpose, it does--but there are many laws that people ignore, and it's considered generally harmless, I suppose that for us, this is one of them.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:58:26 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady

Date: 8/19/2008 10:43:47 PM
Author: musey

Date: 8/19/2008 10:33:32 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Okay, here''s a new can of worms.

Many agree that the drinking age should be lowered. Quite a few feel 16 would be a good age.

SO, How would you feel if your babysitter brought over a bottle of wine when she came to watch your kids. I''m not saying getting drunk, just enjoying a cocktail after the kids are in bed. (keeping in mind that if 16 were the legal age, they would also be permitted to drive within the state regulated tolerance.) OR for that matter, what if he/she showed up after having a couple. Yes you could refuse to have them watch your child, and no one would blame you if you did. But, the fact is, it''s not a worry for most of us now, but certainly would be if it were legal.

Personally, I wouldn''t mind if one of my adult friends had a drink if they were watching my child, but I would have a HUGE issue with a 16 yr old having that same drink.

I don''t understand the difference

does a 16-year-old have a lower tolerance?

I still watch one of our friends'' kids occasionally, and I would never drink any amount of alcohol beforehand, just on principle. So for me, the rules would be the same regardless of the age of my sitter.

Date: 8/19/2008 10:38:10 PM
Author: SanDiegoLady
Most of you know I have four children, two of four of them drank before they were out of high school so badly so that they both agreed it was STUPID and IMMATURE and they both regret having done so. Because alcoholism runs on both sides of our families it has been a severe struggle for two of them NOT to drink. Only one of my oldest children refuses to even consider alcohol.. and good for him.

My youngest is 17, almost 18 and I cannot FATHOM him at 18 years old and a high school JUNIOR legally drinking alcohol. He is not mature enough. He might have a man''s body but he is far from being a man.

Maybe I''m a weirdo (and I''m not arguing that it''s stupid to take that first drink if your family has a history of alcoholism), but I just don''t get the difference.

I remember being offered wine/champagne at family dinners as young as 13. I don''t think my ''immaturity'' caused me to get hooked on it, or over-indulge. For that matter, even at 13-20, if I was offered it I didn''t always accept it just because it was a novelty or something. I''d accept if I was in the mood, and not if I wasn''t. I''m the same way now.

The only thing that''s changed for me re: alcohol between age 13 and age 23 is that now I can buy my own, and can drink it even outside of my parents'' watch. I don''t look at it any differently, indulge any more or less... it''s all the same.

Maybe I''m a weirdo, though!

You''re not weird. But.. I refuse to provide alcohol to a minor. One, its against the law and two, I have seen what can happen. If its traditional for your family to allow children to drink then so be it, I''m just saying there''s a responsibility most teenagers simply do not have.

I''d have to check, but I believe in many states it is totally legal to give your kids alcohol over a certain age, and that age is below 21. I remember seeing an article on this and was surprised. Our current law prohibits the sale of alcohol to minors, not necessary them DRINKING. There are social host laws that prohibit me from serving your kid, but it is may be legal to serve my own. I''m not saying this is a great idea however.

SDL, your post made me chuckle (in a good way).

Now that I have my own kid, I have to say, I think she''ll always be my baby! Your youngest may be a boy in a man''s body, but when he turns 18, our country will recognize him as adult and he will have to live with any consequences that come from adult decisions. That is the only reason why I think it is strange to have the drinking age at 21.

Did find this on wikipedia -

The legal age for purchase or possession (but not necessarily consumption) in every state has been 21 since shortly after the passage of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act in 1984, which tied federal highway funds to states'' maintaining a minimum drinking age of 21.

Eighteen states (Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Wyoming) and the District of Columbia have laws against possession of alcohol by minors but do not prohibit its consumption by minors.

Thirteen states (Alaska, Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oregon, Texas, Washington, and Wisconsin) specifically permit children to drink alcohol given to them by their parents or guardians.

 

[fieryred33143]

Drinking age lowered to 16

What's going to happen once society gets used to 16 year olds drinking?? Lower the age to 15? 14? 13?

Personally, I grew up in a household with no alcohol. My mom never drank (although she does like wine coolers now

) and the only time I ever "tried" anything at a young age was during the holidays and only a signature puerto rican drink (coquito). I have never been drunk or tipsy a day in my life so I don't see why anyone would need to drink at a younger age. It's not necessary. I was the DD in college and proud of it because I got all of my drunken friends, women that were really intelligent but couldn't handle alcohol, home safely. I am still a DD and the most I'll ever drink when out and about is 2 pina coladas. It's not needed to have a good time.

What is lowering to 18 going to accomplish really?

Yes there is a lot of underage drinking but the irresponsibility that comes with illegal underage drinking isn't going to magically disappear if the age is lowered to 18. These fools that get plastered at 18 are still going to be fools if it was made legal. They are not going to say ok the legal drinking age is now 18 so I'm not going to get drunk anymore. Not going to happen. They are just too young to understand the need to drink responsibly and no law is going to change that. Are there responsible 18 year olds? Yes. I was one of them and it seems like a lot of the people in here were as well. But the amount of silly, immature, and irresponsible 18 year olds far surpasses that of the mature ones.

And honestly if the only reason for some 18 year olds to drink is so that they can have one or two beers during dinner then that isn't enough of a reason to make it legal.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 8/19/2008 11:10:57 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 8/19/2008 11:05:06 PM

Author: WishfulThinking

Haven- I agree with you completely about the cultural issue. I realized that as I was typing my answer above! We do have exceptionally odd ways of dealing with alcohol problems in this country. 4 kids in my area died in a drunk driving accident last night and everyone seems at such a loss about what to do. What can we do, really?

I have no idea! We bring in the car wreck for homecoming assembly, the guy who was thrown in jail for years and now has to do community service because he killed his best friend while driving drunk, we do the all-day simulation where selected students wear all black and it''s announced that one died every however-many-teens-die-per-hour-due-to-drunk-driving over the loud speaker. We model happy, productive lives. We offer hundreds of sports and activities. We give them all the support and opportunity we possibly can. And they still drink. And they still kill themselves and each other behind the wheel.


We''ve lost several kids over the last few years. It is an epidemic, and I certainly have no idea how to stop it.

Sorry to be so tangential, but this has been on my mind all day...
It is definitely an epidemic. Those 4 kids who died in the crash in my area all PERSONALLY KNOW a young man [17] who is serving prison time for negligent homicide due to killing his best friend in a drunk driving accident. These went to school with BOTH those boys, and yet they still drink and drive, knowing that one of them is spending two decades in prison and the other is no longer alive. I got the same "education" about alcohol and drugs that they did: don''t drink and drive... EVER. And yet they do. Possibly the dumbest thing is that the highschools no longer allow those drunk driving demonstration wrecks because they "traumatize" the kids who have had friends die in accidents. I don''t think they''re supposed to be fun, and I find it hard to believe that it''s more traumatic for them to see some play-acting dead people than to witness year after year their classmates'' *actual* deaths. I don''t understand the logic there, and imo it''s not doing them any favors.

Then again, despite that brand of stupidity and immaturity, as a college student I see tons and tons of 21+ people who are just as stupid if not MORE stupid. There''s no age limit for stupidity or immaturity, whether it be 18,21,or 45. Children obviously have less capacity for sound judgment than adults do, but that we define the cut-off from "child" to "adult" in so many different ways [16,18,21???] is just plain convoluted.

 

[Kaleigh]

In a civilized mature responsible USA yes. But really have my doubts and worries over this.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:13:32 AM
Author: fieryred33143

Off topic: You know, I don’t think the age to join the army is too low. I have my own issues with drafting but we haven’t had to experience that in my lifetime (as of yet). I think that when 18 year olds join the army, it’s the same as deciding to go to college. It’s a path they chose for one reason or another (love for the country, for the benefits, etc.). It’s a decision made by that 18 year old (of course there are instances where the teen is forced into it by family and again not talking about drafting.) FYI drinking ages on military bases *can* be lower than 21 depending on where the base is located…and how strict of a unit leader they have.

On topic: I hope its never lower than 21. I think about my brothers who are 18 and 19. Them drinking

(I'm an overprotective sister

)

HAHAHA!!! My sister is 22 now, Thank goodness, but I was def giving her alcohol when she was 15!!! I didn't want her drinking in HS with friends or going to college and going nuts. (we were out of the country, however, with lower drinking ages) I fought with my BF more than once because he tried to offer her alcohol underage... he was like, but you have!?!

I also started teaching her to drive when she was 12 or 13 (we could drive at 14 in KS)... I really just prefer the idea of being slowly acclimated to these "big steps" under controlled conditions. My sister is not a big drinker now, and really only likes fuzzy navels. I, on the other hand, started drinking in HS with friends, with no supervision... and I will drink ANYTHING! And I still over do it and shake my head at myself some nights

I am with 18 or 19, not that it wouldn't be problematic....

 

[pennquaker09]

I think it has a lot to do with how kids are taught.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 8/19/2008 11:06:06 PM
Author: Haven
I have a huge problem with the ''I''d rather have my underage child try (illegal) things under my own roof so I can have some control over the situation'' philosophy. I think this is irresponsible and it only makes your (underage, immature) children think that they are capable of handling themselves while doing ''adult'' things both inside and outside of your home. Not to mention it gives them the idea that the rules do not apply to them, or they only apply to them in public situations.

ETA: I''m talking about parents who let their kids have drinking parties in their own home, here, not a drink or two of wine with dinner. Just wanted to clarify.

I''m going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. This was the way I was raised, and as a result, I wasn''t even interested in drinking until I was legally able to do so. Same with drugs; my mother was a teen in the 70''s, and wasn''t going to stick her head in the sand and pretend that I was too young for her to worry about drug exposure. She knew what kids my age did back in her day.

I have tremendous respect for my mother''s approach, which was to tell me "I''m not going to forbid you from experimenting with drugs, because that would be naive, but please if you are going to try something, please do so in the company of someone who has done it before and will know if something goes wrong and knows to take you to the hospital."

It was brilliant. In one swoop, drugs were not a statement of rebellion, drugs = bad trip that sends you to the hospital. I never touched them, and still don''t.

Same thing with our ''sex talk''. She didn''t tell me just "don''t do it" we instead had many conversations discussing women''s power (or lack thereof) in today''s society, how women''s sexuality is viewed and treated in our culture, etc. Dynamics of relationships, these were dinner conversations for us. I might have been a teen, but she never made the mistake of treating me like a child instead of a person. The closest we got to a ''sex talk'' was a dinner conversation about what I wanted out of life and all the ways in which a teenage pregnancy would essentially ruin my future. Very effective!

She also would have preferred that parties happen in the home, where my parents could act as DDs if needed, the kids would have a safe place to sleep, and that she could be aware of what kind of friends I had. As it happens, none of us were terribly interested in alcohol and had dinner parties instead.

Personal responsibility was always something practiced in my home, and I was encouraged to "[be] capable of handling [myself] while doing ''adult'' things both inside and outside of [my] home" and if anything, it reinforced the ''idea that rules do apply to me, both in private and public situations''. If I wanted to be treated like an adult (and really, what teen doesn''t?) I had to behave like one.

I''m not arguing for the age to be lowered to 16, as I stated, I think 19 is an ideal age, although up in Canada that can mean students are in their third year of university before they are of age.

And I do mean ''respectfully'' disagree. I understand that not everyone has the same life experiences and thus it colours our worldview; hence we have the broad spectrum of PS that makes it the wonderful place it is. All the best!

 

[katebar]

The legal drinking age in Australia is 18. Are 18 year old responsible? Hell no!!
Binge drinking in under 18 's is a huge problem here and the Government has launched a program to try and curb underage drinking. They have put a tax on so called alcho pops drinks or lolly water as I call it. Whilst it early days sales for these drinks have decreased but the hotels and bottle shops are saying that the number of bottles of hard liquor has increased so so it looks like people are buying and mixing their own drinks. So that strategy hasn't worked
My daughter is 16 and we have banned her from drinking but we are a lone voice here! All her friends drink and the parents seem to think its ok to buy them alcohol to take to parties.
As a psychologist I know the effect alcohol can have on young brains and so we have been determined not to allow our children to drink till they are 18
But...... will my children be able to handle alcohol when they are 18 maturely? No I don't think they will. In fact my 20 year old is a binge drinker

.
I have a lot to do with USA students that come to Australia for a 'semester abroad' and a large proportion come here because A.) its beautiful and B) they can drink legally. And boy do they drink!!
So I really can't say that prohibition etc makes people more responsible when they 'can' do it. I am at a loss to know how to handle the problem.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/19/2008 11:06:06 PM
Author: Haven
I have a huge problem with the ''I''d rather have my underage child try (illegal) things under my own roof so I can have some control over the situation'' philosophy. I think this is irresponsible and it only makes your (underage, immature) children think that they are capable of handling themselves while doing ''adult'' things both inside and outside of your home. Not to mention it gives them the idea that the rules do not apply to them, or they only apply to them in public situations.

My own parents had this philosophy and they allowed us to drink in their home. It undermined their authority and the law''s, in my opinion. And as parents, I think their chief concern should have been to protect me from making bad choices by modeling certain values and beliefs, not enabling me to make those bad choices because I could only take them so far if I was in their home.

ETA: I''m talking about parents who let their kids have drinking parties in their own home, here, not a drink or two of wine with dinner. Just wanted to clarify.

I agree! Obviously, it''s up to parents to decide what is the best rule to apply in their families, but I would never host parties for underage *children* and serve alcohol. I would also not give children cigarettes, allow them to have sex in my house, or give them any type of drugs. I realize that is a stretch to the stories most PSers have posted, but I know parents who have the "as long as it''s under my roof" mentality & apply it to everything. I would rather my children not see me encourage their participation in illegal activity & tell them that some laws shouldn''t apply to them. It also opens up a world of civil & criminal liability for the parents. Furthermore, let''s face it...not all parents supervise their children, & even those who do can''t be at all places at all times to tell their 16 year old when they need to stop drinking. It''s not as if children would only drink in their home in front of their parents if the age were drastically lowered.

Then again, I might just be weird in that I never felt a huge, overwhelming urge to rebel against my parents, even though they kept a tight ship. I knew they wanted what was best for me & I never had the desire to "break free" from them...although this seems to be the minority sentiment felt by children today.

 

[bee*]

Date: 8/19/2008 11:09:40 PM
Author: Galateia

Date: 8/19/2008 10:33:32 PM

Author: somethingshiny

Okay, here''s a new can of worms.




Many agree that the drinking age should be lowered. Quite a few feel 16 would be a good age.



SO, How would you feel if your babysitter brought over a bottle of wine when she came to watch your kids. I''m not saying getting drunk, just enjoying a cocktail after the kids are in bed. (keeping in mind that if 16 were the legal age, they would also be permitted to drive within the state regulated tolerance.) OR for that matter, what if he/she showed up after having a couple. Yes you could refuse to have them watch your child, and no one would blame you if you did. But, the fact is, it''s not a worry for most of us now, but certainly would be if it were legal.



Personally, I wouldn''t mind if one of my adult friends had a drink if they were watching my child, but I would have a HUGE issue with a 16 yr old having that same drink.

Uh, what?


How would you feel about any of-age employee coming to work with a bottle wine for lunchtime or showing up having had a few?


What you are asking about has nothing to do with the legal drinking age and there is nothing preventing 16 year olds from showing up drunk to watch your kids if they are stupid enough to do so.


Do people honestly think that raising the drinking age/a high drinking age keeps underage kids from drinking? Hello! It already doesn''t, just like preaching abstinence doesn''t work, it just makes kids'' behaviours more unsafe because they aren''t steeped in safe sex practices.


The whole point that pro-lowering posters are making is that lack of taboo encourages responsible drinking habits whereas forbidden activities are more likely to be practiced unsafely and to excess.


Seriously, this kind of straw man argument makes me exasperated.

agree with you 100% Galateia!

 

[somethingshiny]

Date: 8/19/2008 11:05:06 PM
Author: WishfulThinking

Date: 8/19/2008 10:56:17 PM

Author: somethingshiny




I don't think a lot of people [perhaps the majority of people?] are prepared to accept the consequences of drinking, especially in the United States. I see it much more as a cultural issue than one of age.

Big fat ditto to that!


And, to continue in my straw man mentality.....

If 16 year olds are ALLOWED to drink legally, don't you think more 12 year olds are going to start drinking??

And, of course, drinking at any job is prohibited, but do you really want to have more worries in your life?? Do you want to wonder if your neighbor kid who just got his license and is drinking is going to pay attention to your kid playing baseball in the back yard?? Do you want to wonder if he's going to drive his own little sister around after drinking?? Do you want to wonder what kind of role model that is for every child??

Sorry you think I'm stupid, but I think lowering the age to 16 would cause more deaths, catastrophic incidences, and IRRESPONSIBLE drinking.

A 21 year old can't figure out responsible drinking how is a 16 year old who is also struggling with peer pressure, college entrance exams, sex, etc??