Do you have a fiesty and spirited child?

[Dreamer_D]

I have a friend who is a new(ish) mother like I am. She is a wonderful person, but I think she could use some advice/perspectives from other moms of fiesty and spirited kids. Her son is 18 months old and the definition of a spirited kid. He is loud, he is active, he cries loudly when he is sad or wants something, and laughs loudly when he is happy. He is also charming and engageing!

And utterly exhausting for my friend, who is the complete opposite personality

.She is struggling and I hate to see it, and I think a lot of the issue for her is not knowing any other moms. I can comment all I like, but Hunter is a different type of kid so it doesn''t have the same meaning I think.

Can you comment on how you see your child''s personality? How do you perceive his/her behaviour? How does it make you feel when he/she is being "difficult" and challenging? What do you do when you feel overwhelmed? How do you keep your negative feelings, when you have them, from coloring your interactions with your child? How often do you feel negatively towards your child?

I know you are all busy but this would mean a lot to her I think... I will pass your answers along.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I would love to hear responses, as well. My younger son is very much fiesty and spirited. He''s also very animated, as well. He has to constantly move about and talks loud and all that. The only time he sits still is when he''s playing with Legos or reading. He needs activities that keep him focused. TV definetly doesn''t do it!

This is beyond weird: About 25% of the time, he talks with a British accent!!! It''s not like just Dh and I notice, but we get comments about it ALL THE TIME! We''ve been stopped by a family in B&N after hearing my son talk because of the mom of that family being from England! None of our family or friends are British. We have no idea where this came from other than he was reincarnated from a person from the UK!

I would love to chat more and will think up advice. Today is the first day of kids'' school and I need to run a ton of errands. So glad school has started. The house is very quiet!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I can totally relate to your friend. My brother put it best. My daughter has all of these personality traits that are AWESOME in an adult but not so much in a kid. She IS spirited, sassy, stubborn, demanding and bossy. My dad said she is the reason their are only children.

She has always been a tough kid/baby. However, she is SO charming, sweet, loving, social and friendly. People are drawn to her. I honestly don''t worry much about her as an adult. She can totally take care of herself

But when she acts out in public it IS embarrassing. Honestly around 18 months is the WROST b/c she didn''t quite understand me as well. She is still too young to reason with but if I give her a snack she will allow me to run errands. So far is still convinced SHE is the BOSS. Not sure her mind will ever change on that one.

When I get utterly frustrated she gets a time out. She has taken to hitting me (on purpose) when she is upset and that is an automatic time out. Other times I just yell at her. When I am overwhelmed we don''t leave the house. Simple as that. Nothing is that important to fight with her when she is in a bad mood. My daughter behaves the best at home. She even grabs my hand and asks to go home when we are at friend''s houses or even the playground! But I think it is perfectly okay for your child to see you upset/angry. They need to learn what is acceptable behavior. Most the time I just have to threaten a time-out and she will stop her bad behavior. Of course I do always follow through with any threats of time-out. I haven''t figured out a way to have them in public though.

Please remind your friend she has a tough kid b/c he is tough. It has nothing to do with her as a mother. DH and I are so laid-back so it is surprising we have such a demanding kid but we do. Once I accepted that it was not my parenting it made things easier. She is who she is. I try to focus on her positive qualities b/c she certainly has them. But it has resulted me in having NO rush for #2!

 

[lyra]

I think it may be a bit soon to worry about his temperament. My youngest daughter was very different from the start. The very moment she was born she screamed so loud my ears were ringing for a while (and she peed on me at the same time--foreshadowing?). She was active and engaging and went full out until she literally burnt herself out physically. She got into things my older daughter never did. Her voice had volume always, and still does (she''s 19!).

What we did notice early on was that she had a different thought process too. She would come up with unique solutions to things and not necessarily take the easiest path to an answer, but a creative one. She was into art from the moment she discovered crayons. School was sometimes difficult for her not because of learning disabilities, but because her mind was so active it was hard for her to focus unless she was really interested in something--then she''d absorb tons of information on that subject. We had her tested several times throughout elementary school because her marks would be all over the place. High in some areas, low in others, but never the same areas usually from year to year. I would say she is mildly ADD, but never enough to be medicated. Art is her world, she''s now taking graphic design in college and her portfolio got her in direct from high school whereas most of her class had to do a year of prep college first. So mine is a positive story I guess. I believe I heard from at least one teacher every year about her lack of progress in something! I thought she''d never go on to college or anything. I thought English was an issue for her yet she graduated with an A and tested in the top 5 of her college program to be put in the higher level first year college english. So things do work out. She had to find her own way. She was independent from kindergarten on, and still is.

Don''t know if this helps at all. I''m sure boys are different from girls in some ways anyway too.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

My 14 month old son is the same way. He is big for is age and is the master of tantrums. If he doesn''t get what he wants when he wants it then it''s the end. of. the. world.

Changing his diaper is a wrestling match and he stands all the way up, backwards, in his highchair when he decides he''s done eating

He has tons of energy and when he''s up then he''s on the go. He never stops moving and you cannot take your eyes off of him for even a second. It is utterly exhausting and sometimes frustrating. He''s generally good in public - he loves to ride in carts but he''s had his moments too. He is very charming and will flirt with women, especially if they have big (*)(*) and loves to "chat" with anybody that will listen. Very very cute my son is! DH and I just sort of roll with the punches, because he''s really too young for time-outs. We tell him "no touch please" with things that he''s not allowed to play with, sometimes sternly, and that sometimes leads to tantrums. Rolling on the floor, red face, crocodile tears tantrums. And to think that this is just the beginning.....


Maybe your friend should try to meet other moms that she can talk to and do play dates with. Having PS and my mom friends IRL has helped me so much because I know that I am not alone in this.

 

[Bia]

Date: 9/9/2009 1:25:03 PM
Author: MC
I would love to hear responses, as well. My younger son is very much fiesty and spirited. He's also very animated, as well. He has to constantly move about and talks loud and all that. The only time he sits still is when he's playing with Legos or reading. He needs activities that keep him focused. TV definetly doesn't do it!

This is beyond weird: About 25% of the time, he talks with a British accent!!! It's not like just Dh and I notice, but we get comments about it ALL THE TIME! We've been stopped by a family in B&N after hearing my son talk because of the mom of that family being from England! None of our family or friends are British. We have no idea where this came from other than he was reincarnated from a person from the UK!

I would love to chat more and will think up advice. Today is the first day of kids' school and I need to run a ton of errands. So glad school has started. The house is very quiet!

lol that's so funny! I love it.

DD: I am not a mom, but my FMIL had a very hyper, feisty and spirited little boy (my FI

). She always tells me that she loved having an engaging, funny and charming boy, like your friend's, but boy did he wear her out...for YEARS. More like he would wear on that last nerve every single day! lol. She says she never questioned her love for him but she would often ask God for patience because she did feel so overwhelmed. She also says she wished she'd had more support (I think it's great that you're trying to help your friend btw) because a lot of her family/friends would write her son off as being a PITA. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the time he would have screaming fits, jumping around everywhere, not listening and what not, and in those cases sometimes she couldn't do it alone and had to hand over the reigns to her husband, who could easily calm him, but eventually she mastered how to handle him too. She also expected his teachers, with her help, to be willing to learn to do the same - not give him preferential treatment but rather appreciate all the good and understand that he wasn't like all the other kids. If this meant she had to be an extra-active at school then she would be - and she was.

She says the best thing she could have done for him was to give him fun, ACTIVE, and engaging things to do. Very little TV. Musical instruments worked wonders (she gave him drums and that would tire him out every time

) and as a result he gained confidence, learned to love music and became a musician. Sports were good for him too, but the *right* ones. For instance, he had a harder time with team sports like baseball because he was too 'all over the place' and those types of sports focus on the team - he'd be the kid in the outfield paying attention to everything except the game/team, kwim? He did martial arts instead and it was perfect because it helped him exert all that energy and allowed him to use his hyperactivity in a positive way (thereby curbing the disciplinary issues - hyper kids get pegged as the 'bad' kids all too often). All he really needed was more one-on-one attention - I think that the biggest difference.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Lyra is right about it being too soon to tell. My son didn''t show his signs of being more spirited until as he grew to be at least age 4 (or at least I could tell he wouldn''t grow out of it). Also, he has an older brother, so his personality changes depending upon if they are together or alone. My son makes me nervous in parking lots because he is always dancing around and fully energized. When I have the two of them together, my body kind of tenses up. When he is by himself, he still takes on my full attention. I love him, but often feel the boys would have been better if they were at least 5 years apart! (They''re 2 years.)

One thing I can say as a postive note you can pass onto your friend: as my son''s personality stands, I find that in his spirited nature, he is very confident. He does play with older kids, so that may be part of it. . .but still, he''s not shy AT ALL. Any person who comes up to him will be able to engage in coversation with him without him hesitating. He once held a 10-minute conversation with an adult employee in Gap Kids. lol That guy was pretty cool to do that! He''s always the hit-of-the-party! He never hides behind me when a person asks him a question.

Another thing I''d say to your friend to be sure to instill a set style of punishment for when her son acts out. That way at least he''ll be "trained" to listen when he''s acting negatively. Even if she can work out a system where he goes to his room for 10 mintues if he throws a fit, she can then ground herself and get over her anger toward him. I cannot get my son to go to his room and I''ve tried to pick him up and carry him, but he''s now too heavy. lol

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 9/9/2009 2:52:00 PM
Author: Bia
lol that''s so funny! I love it.

She says the best thing she could have done for him was to give him fun, ACTIVE, and engaging things to do. Very little TV. Musical instruments worked wonders (she gave him drums and that would tire him out every time

) and as a result he gained confidence, learned to love music and became a musician. Sports were good for him too, but the *right* ones. For instance, he had a harder time with team sports like baseball because he was too ''all over the place'' and those types of sports focus on the team - he''d be the kid in the outfield paying attention to everything except the game/team, kwim? He did martial arts instead and it was perfect because it helped him exert all that energy and allowed him to use his hyperactivity in a positive way (thereby curbing the disciplinary issues - hyper kids get pegged as the ''bad'' kids all too often). All he really needed was more one-on-one attention - I think that the biggest difference.

We''re finding the opposite with my son. He was in martial arts and only was interested in it when it was fun. . when the moves had to be perfected, he became bored and lost interest. We''ve started up team sports and he loves hanging out with the other kids and seems to be more "in tune" with that activity.

The only thing is he''s so interested in his surroundings that if he sees something like a train go by, he''ll stop in middle of the game to look at it. lol

 

[softly softly]

Dreamer I have to say to me it doesn't necessarily sound like your friend has a 'difficult' child, but rather that she has a TODDLER, and I think the best thing she could do if she is feeling overwhelmed and isolated is try and find a mum's group or playgroup with other toddlers. I guarantee if she spends time around other kids between the ages of 18 mths and 4 yrs her child's behaviour will no longer seem quite as extreme.

In my experience nothing really prepares you for that time when your sweet, smiling baby morphs into the defiant, sometimes aggressive and almost always irrational creatures that most toddlers are. I remember when my son was 2 he had a melt-down at my niece's 1st birthday feeling completely isolated as I got horrified looks from other mothers who had yet to experience toddlerhood. I could see them all thinking 'what a brat. MY baby will never do that' and I wanted to shout 'Just you wait' because we all go through it and it really does help to spend time with other mum's who are going through the same thing.

Tacori, our daughters sound remarkably similar, and you are right it is exhausting!

 

[Bia]

Date: 9/9/2009 5:17:41 PM
Author: MC

Date: 9/9/2009 2:52:00 PM

Author: Bia

lol that''s so funny! I love it.


She says the best thing she could have done for him was to give him fun, ACTIVE, and engaging things to do. Very little TV. Musical instruments worked wonders (she gave him drums and that would tire him out every time

) and as a result he gained confidence, learned to love music and became a musician. Sports were good for him too, but the *right* ones. For instance, he had a harder time with team sports like baseball because he was too ''all over the place'' and those types of sports focus on the team - he''d be the kid in the outfield paying attention to everything except the game/team, kwim? He did martial arts instead and it was perfect because it helped him exert all that energy and allowed him to use his hyperactivity in a positive way (thereby curbing the disciplinary issues - hyper kids get pegged as the ''bad'' kids all too often). All he really needed was more one-on-one attention - I think that the biggest difference.

We''re finding the opposite with my son. He was in martial arts and only was interested in it when it was fun. . when the moves had to be perfected, he became bored and lost interest. We''ve started up team sports and he loves hanging out with the other kids and seems to be more ''in tune'' with that activity.


The only thing is he''s so interested in his surroundings that if he sees something like a train go by, he''ll stop in middle of the game to look at it. lol

Haha! I''m glad he''s finding something he likes!

I have a feeling I''m going to be blessed with a feisty one! If my future child''s father is any indication

 

[Burk]

My 19 mo-old falls into the "spirited" category. All toddlers have their moments-tantrums, power struggles, the list goes on but my child goes above and beyond all that.

She has many of the same qualities as Tacori''s T: independent, stubborn, strong-willed, demanding, ect. The good thing is that so many of her "spirited" qualities also make her such a love. Her teacher just raves about her at her "school" because she is so social and friendly and is an absolute "model student" because she LOVES every aspect of her time at school (minus the nap). She hardly ever gets in trouble at school because she doesn''t want to miss out on any of her social time. At home, however, is a total different story. She pushes the limits with us. Time-outs typically do work, but like Tessa she has started hitting me as well. Two days ago she was in time-out 4 times in a matter of 20 minutes because she kept hitting me!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I totally agree with Burk. (Burk our two Ts together would be such a sight! Haha). When I brought T to the gym today they were SOOO excited to see her. It had been over a month and they wanted to know where she had been. They see SO many kids so it makes me feel good that my child makes a *positive* impression. When I picked her up one of the ladies told me my DD was so sweet and social. She runs around saying hi and smiling to everyone. Again, makes me feel blessed to have a "spirited" child. So she may push me farther than the average child (many other moms have pointed that out) but she is *my* sweet little girl.

 

[drk]

I haven''t gotten that far yet, but just wanted to say this is a very interesting discussion. I was the opposite - shy, retiring, and am still not outgoing, though I''m better than before.

Tacori - about time-outs in public places. I saw a supernanny episode once where she had the parents implement time outs wherever they were. They had one with the kid misbehaving in the supermarket and it was put in time out to sit on the bottom shelf at the end of one of the aisles of groceries. It seemed to work like a charm. I don''t have a kid of my own (yet), but it made perfect sense watching them do it. That kid quickly learned there was no getting away with anything just because they were in public. I''m sure a lot of people would be pretty chuffed to see a child disciplined well like that in this day and age, rather than running amok in the store. I''d sure be impressed with those parents rather than thinking they were strange for using a time-out in a public place.

You all sound like you have very interesting kids!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

drk, the problem is at home she is confined in her time out corner. This is part of the reason it works. She will NOT stay seated in a chair or corner if I ask her and if I force her it kinda loses its power IMHO. Part of it is NOT getting a reaction and time for her to reflect on her own though I am sure at 22 months she doesn''t do much reflecting. Then I explain why I placed her in time out and make her say she is sorry. Which she does. She screams and cries during the 90 second time out so I know it works. I honestly think she is too young to try it in public. It would turn into a HUGE power struggle but when she is older I will keep that idea in mind!

I was a very shy, introverted, careful, fearful (almost), quiet child. Basically opposite to DD! According to my MIL DH was very easy going and laid back which also does not describe our daughter. I think people are born with their personalities for better or worse.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks everyone, this is very helpful. I am going to send this thread to my friend.

Softly I agree that toddlers are a piece of work no matter what (I can''t wait

), but there is no doubt in my mind that my friend''s son is spirited. I lived with their family for a week so I have a good idea of his general personality, and I also know about 5 or 6 other toddlers very very well, so I can make comparisons. Still, I think the suggestion of meeting other mothers is a very very good one. I think she feels like she is a bad mother because her son is challenging

Seeing other misbehaving and stressed moms will probably help

From what I know of your daughter, Tacori, I think she and my friend''s son are very similar. He too is a charmer. What prompted me to start this thread was my friend being very upset about one of her friend''s commenting that maybe she just *thought* he was challenging, and that he really is not.

This friend only sees the social charmer side that you and Burk talked about, so they were implying that my friend was a complainer or something because she was so tired and exhausted by her son. I don''t think these other people have kids

 

[puffy]

a little late to reply, but at 18 months, it is pretty bad for toddlers. that is when i THINK they test the waters and see what they can get away with. and for a lot of boys (not trying to generalize) it''s the start of the terrible twos. B went through a BAD time at 16 months, but it was only around me. when we went out, he was perfectly behaved and social and just super loving to everyone. so of course people thought i was totally exaggerating what a nightmare he had become. but eventually, he did grow out of it. he''s 21 months now. and he is a lot better because he knows that he will not get his way by screaming or throwing a tantrum. he rarely throws tantrums when we are in public. so when he throws them at home, i walk away and tell him to come get me when he is ready to be a big boy. so he''ll have a few minutes to himself then he will come get me and apologize.

it really has nothing to do with what your friend is doing or isn''t doing. it''s just him being a toddler. and for some kids, at that age, they don''t really "get it" yet. obviously giving into the tantrums isn''t going to get the point across. and i''m sure your friend is standing her ground. but i found that with B, i had to really stand my ground. if i was upset with him for 1 minute and he caught me off guard trying to be cute, i would give in to him, and he knew he could do it all the time. so it took a little while longer for me not give in, and keep him in timeout.

 

[pinkelephant]

Interesting thread! My nephew is a highly spirited child and my sister has said that reading the book, "How to raise a highly spirited child" has helped her with some strategies. I think that is the title... I have seen how teaching some strategies to the child to help them deal with their behavior is also helpful. When my nephew is feeling overwhelmed with certain situations, he removes himself and simply states, "I need some quiet time." This has been an improvement as he previously would act out and become so ''active''. Good luck!

 

[Jas12]

DD--i have an uber-mellow child that is probably much like your Hunter (Baby Whisperer would describe him as an Angel or textbook baby) so i can''t help much with specific strategies, but as a daycare worker i found the absolute best way to deal with the difficult toddlers was with structure. If my day was well planned and balanced sleep, stimulation, free play, food etc. tantrums were kept to a minimum. Too much or too little of any of those things and the day was much harder.
But i can also say that temperments are not necessarily for life. My sister was a VERY spirited child. She kinda reminds me of the way Tacori describes Tessa. She was apparently charming and cute but totally, uttery egocentric and rambunctious. Her nickname was ''fingers'' b/c she would take apart everything and anything, she had endless engery, had tantrums when bored and did crazy, fearless things like eat her meals STANDING on the arm rails of her highchair b/c it was absolutely impossible to contain her (she would undo any harness). Today she is about as mellow and undaring as they come. She shows little evidence of the kid my parents say she was well into gradeschool. However, she has kept her charm and enthusiasm and ppl are still drawn to her. So i guess this is where i do believe parenting comes into it. Yes, your kids are born with a temperment, but i totally believe socialization plays a paramount role in how that temperment is tamed/stoked. My mom claims she had to implement clear and consistent routine and believes my sister was a different child when she didn''t get exactly enough sleep or was really pushed out of her comfort zone. This is true of most kids, but especially so for spirited ones.

 

[janinegirly]

Interesting thread. Before I had a baby, I always believed children''s dominant traits were influenced by the parenting. Now I feel differently! My LO is 11 months so I''m not sure where she falls in the personality barometer exactly, but I"m seeing signs of "spiritedness". The thing is she can waiver between being soft and gentle and whispering, to loud/shouting, grabbing faces and backarching! When she''s loud she''s v. loud and she''s had a few tantrums in stores (at 11months it''s meant loud yelling out and pulling away from me or cart) or when I take something away from her, the cry will be overboard for what just occured! She gets bored easily and hates being constrained (clothes, diapers, car seats, high chairs). I thought this was just standard behaviour until a friend told me her son could stay in an exersaucer for an hour at times---my child can''t make it more than 10minutes before yelling to be picked up! She is also social--when she''s among a large group she is happy and interactive--but not sure if that''s just b/c there''s something new to look at and be distracted by.So not sure if these are signs of things to come? NO extreme behavior though (like standing on the arm of highchair..wow!)

DH and I are both reserved, quiet talkers (I have to force myself to talk loudly) and more introverted (me more than him) so I''m always surprised to hear how loud her voice can be!

 

[packrat]

I was at work yesterday so I couldn''t join in-hmph!

My little boy is 2 1/2, and he is nutso at times. He''s always on the go and just plain wild. Like others have mentioned, people are drawn to him, everywhere we go. (My brother is like that, tho he''s laid back rather than off the charts like Trapper.) He waves, smiles and flirts with everyone. JD calls him a little politician. He''s got a vocabulary that makes look twice-I''m guessing b/c of his older sister, he wants to talk like a big boy.

He''s loud and stubborn and he''s got a set of lungs on him like I''ve never known to exist. He''s not Curious George. He''s Into Shit Bob. If he''s mad about something, there''s screaming and caterwauling and kicking. I''d seen other kids do this, in stores and whatnot, before I had a child that did this. I used to think, jeez can''t they control their kid? Um, well, duh, haha jokes on me eh?

London, our oldest, will be 6 in November, and she was NOTHING like this. I too, used to think it was my (lack of) parenting skills that caused Trapper to be this way. But, he is who he is. Just like London.

They both have terrific personalities, however, Trapper''s is like some kind of hurricane force that can''t be ignored. London''s is more subdued.

At home, when Trapper''s being particularly difficult, we put him in his room and shut the door. It might not always work the first time, and in the meantime there''s a lot of howler monkey screeching to try and ignore, but it does generally settle him down. There''ve been times when he, for instance, doesn''t want his diaper changed, so he''ll lay there and kick and try to roll over. I''ve gotten kicked in the neck several times, and at that point, I need to just walk away.

I''ve called my mom crying b/c Trapper would just be NAUGHTY, like horribly naughty and I''d get so angry, I''d put him in his room b/c I was scared-of myself. I''d feel like the worst mother ever, and think "it was so much easier when it was just London". And yes, it was a breeze when it was just London. But, we''ve got two kids now, and I''m addicted to them. There''re times I want to pull my hair out or just run away screaming down the street..but then there are times when one or both of the kids want to lay and snuggle and it is sooo worth it!

I agree with finding other moms to set up play dates and such. It''s nice to let the kids play and have some adult time!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/10/2009 9:29:34 AM
Author: Jas12
DD--i have an uber-mellow child that is probably much like your Hunter (Baby Whisperer would describe him as an Angel or textbook baby) so i can''t help much with specific strategies, but as a daycare worker i found the absolute best way to deal with the difficult toddlers was with structure. If my day was well planned and balanced sleep, stimulation, free play, food etc. tantrums were kept to a minimum. Too much or too little of any of those things and the day was much harder.
But i can also say that temperments are not necessarily for life. My sister was a VERY spirited child. She kinda reminds me of the way Tacori describes Tessa. She was apparently charming and cute but totally, uttery egocentric and rambunctious. Her nickname was ''fingers'' b/c she would take apart everything and anything, she had endless engery, had tantrums when bored and did crazy, fearless things like eat her meals STANDING on the arm rails of her highchair b/c it was absolutely impossible to contain her (she would undo any harness). Today she is about as mellow and undaring as they come. She shows little evidence of the kid my parents say she was well into gradeschool. However, she has kept her charm and enthusiasm and ppl are still drawn to her. So i guess this is where i do believe parenting comes into it. Yes, your kids are born with a temperment, but i totally believe socialization plays a paramount role in how that temperment is tamed/stoked. My mom claims she had to implement clear and consistent routine and believes my sister was a different child when she didn''t get exactly enough sleep or was really pushed out of her comfort zone. This is true of most kids, but especially so for spirited ones.

Ditto, but I reserve all judgment until I have a second child to see how much is nature vs nuture. Amelia pushes the envelope but I NEVER let her win. Now, does she not win because I''m tougher or because she''s not spirited enough? Who knows.

Sorry I''m not more helpful.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/10/2009 9:29:34 AM
Author: Jas12
DD--i have an uber-mellow child that is probably much like your Hunter (Baby Whisperer would describe him as an Angel or textbook baby) so i can''t help much with specific strategies, but as a daycare worker i found the absolute best way to deal with the difficult toddlers was with structure. If my day was well planned and balanced sleep, stimulation, free play, food etc. tantrums were kept to a minimum. Too much or too little of any of those things and the day was much harder.
But i can also say that temperments are not necessarily for life. My sister was a VERY spirited child. She kinda reminds me of the way Tacori describes Tessa. She was apparently charming and cute but totally, uttery egocentric and rambunctious. Her nickname was ''fingers'' b/c she would take apart everything and anything, she had endless engery, had tantrums when bored and did crazy, fearless things like eat her meals STANDING on the arm rails of her highchair b/c it was absolutely impossible to contain her (she would undo any harness). Today she is about as mellow and undaring as they come. She shows little evidence of the kid my parents say she was well into gradeschool. However, she has kept her charm and enthusiasm and ppl are still drawn to her. So i guess this is where i do believe parenting comes into it. Yes, your kids are born with a temperment, but i totally believe socialization plays a paramount role in how that temperment is tamed/stoked. My mom claims she had to implement clear and consistent routine and believes my sister was a different child when she didn''t get exactly enough sleep or was really pushed out of her comfort zone. This is true of most kids, but especially so for spirited ones.

One of my close friends is like this too. The biological foundations of temperament compared to the overt expression is not a 1:1 equation. It is facinating to think about how such changes take plase. Parenting, yes, but I can also imagine it has to do with other experiences the kid has in their life that either supported or squashed their natural tendencies. Also, as they get older and *other* aspects of their personality develop, those later developing aspects could suppress the expression of fiestiness. For example, shyness sometimes developes a little later in life and could override any innate tendency to be a wild man or woman

I was actually quite shy as a child and quite the opposite now. Yet it still takes *work* on my part to be really sociable, and it can be tiring for me. I suspect that people like your sister may actually use a quiet lifestyle as a means of calming their inner wild child.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/10/2009 2:22:33 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 9/10/2009 9:29:34 AM
Author: Jas12
DD--i have an uber-mellow child that is probably much like your Hunter (Baby Whisperer would describe him as an Angel or textbook baby) so i can''t help much with specific strategies, but as a daycare worker i found the absolute best way to deal with the difficult toddlers was with structure. If my day was well planned and balanced sleep, stimulation, free play, food etc. tantrums were kept to a minimum. Too much or too little of any of those things and the day was much harder.
But i can also say that temperments are not necessarily for life. My sister was a VERY spirited child. She kinda reminds me of the way Tacori describes Tessa. She was apparently charming and cute but totally, uttery egocentric and rambunctious. Her nickname was ''fingers'' b/c she would take apart everything and anything, she had endless engery, had tantrums when bored and did crazy, fearless things like eat her meals STANDING on the arm rails of her highchair b/c it was absolutely impossible to contain her (she would undo any harness). Today she is about as mellow and undaring as they come. She shows little evidence of the kid my parents say she was well into gradeschool. However, she has kept her charm and enthusiasm and ppl are still drawn to her. So i guess this is where i do believe parenting comes into it. Yes, your kids are born with a temperment, but i totally believe socialization plays a paramount role in how that temperment is tamed/stoked. My mom claims she had to implement clear and consistent routine and believes my sister was a different child when she didn''t get exactly enough sleep or was really pushed out of her comfort zone. This is true of most kids, but especially so for spirited ones.

Ditto, but I reserve all judgment until I have a second child to see how much is nature vs nuture. Amelia pushes the envelope but I NEVER let her win. Now, does she not win because I''m tougher or because she''s not spirited enough? Who knows.

Sorry I''m not more helpful.

This almost slipped past me!

Is there another Ttot on the horizon perhaps one day?

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 9/10/2009 2:33:23 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 9/10/2009 2:22:33 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 9/10/2009 9:29:34 AM
Author: Jas12
DD--i have an uber-mellow child that is probably much like your Hunter (Baby Whisperer would describe him as an Angel or textbook baby) so i can''t help much with specific strategies, but as a daycare worker i found the absolute best way to deal with the difficult toddlers was with structure. If my day was well planned and balanced sleep, stimulation, free play, food etc. tantrums were kept to a minimum. Too much or too little of any of those things and the day was much harder.
But i can also say that temperments are not necessarily for life. My sister was a VERY spirited child. She kinda reminds me of the way Tacori describes Tessa. She was apparently charming and cute but totally, uttery egocentric and rambunctious. Her nickname was ''fingers'' b/c she would take apart everything and anything, she had endless engery, had tantrums when bored and did crazy, fearless things like eat her meals STANDING on the arm rails of her highchair b/c it was absolutely impossible to contain her (she would undo any harness). Today she is about as mellow and undaring as they come. She shows little evidence of the kid my parents say she was well into gradeschool. However, she has kept her charm and enthusiasm and ppl are still drawn to her. So i guess this is where i do believe parenting comes into it. Yes, your kids are born with a temperment, but i totally believe socialization plays a paramount role in how that temperment is tamed/stoked. My mom claims she had to implement clear and consistent routine and believes my sister was a different child when she didn''t get exactly enough sleep or was really pushed out of her comfort zone. This is true of most kids, but especially so for spirited ones.

Ditto, but I reserve all judgment until I have a second child to see how much is nature vs nuture. Amelia pushes the envelope but I NEVER let her win. Now, does she not win because I''m tougher or because she''s not spirited enough? Who knows.

Sorry I''m not more helpful.

This almost slipped past me!

Is there another Ttot on the horizon perhaps one day?

hmm, maybe TGAL will come back from Oz with a gift..

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 9/10/2009 2:33:23 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 9/10/2009 2:22:33 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 9/10/2009 9:29:34 AM
Author: Jas12
DD--i have an uber-mellow child that is probably much like your Hunter (Baby Whisperer would describe him as an Angel or textbook baby) so i can''t help much with specific strategies, but as a daycare worker i found the absolute best way to deal with the difficult toddlers was with structure. If my day was well planned and balanced sleep, stimulation, free play, food etc. tantrums were kept to a minimum. Too much or too little of any of those things and the day was much harder.
But i can also say that temperments are not necessarily for life. My sister was a VERY spirited child. She kinda reminds me of the way Tacori describes Tessa. She was apparently charming and cute but totally, uttery egocentric and rambunctious. Her nickname was ''fingers'' b/c she would take apart everything and anything, she had endless engery, had tantrums when bored and did crazy, fearless things like eat her meals STANDING on the arm rails of her highchair b/c it was absolutely impossible to contain her (she would undo any harness). Today she is about as mellow and undaring as they come. She shows little evidence of the kid my parents say she was well into gradeschool. However, she has kept her charm and enthusiasm and ppl are still drawn to her. So i guess this is where i do believe parenting comes into it. Yes, your kids are born with a temperment, but i totally believe socialization plays a paramount role in how that temperment is tamed/stoked. My mom claims she had to implement clear and consistent routine and believes my sister was a different child when she didn''t get exactly enough sleep or was really pushed out of her comfort zone. This is true of most kids, but especially so for spirited ones.

Ditto, but I reserve all judgment until I have a second child to see how much is nature vs nuture. Amelia pushes the envelope but I NEVER let her win. Now, does she not win because I''m tougher or because she''s not spirited enough? Who knows.

Sorry I''m not more helpful.

This almost slipped past me!

Is there another Ttot on the horizon perhaps one day?

LOL Dreamer, no. It''s not out of the question, but we just moved into a new place and it''s perfect for the three of us. One more and we''re in an overcrowded situation again. The thing about having an easygoing kid is that it makes you think you can have another one.

I wonder how much a wild child by nuture can be tempered by nature? I was a shy kid and learned to be social. My industry colleagues in my 20''s knew me as the life of the party, but it was all an effort because I was always being the hostess at events and I believe in being hospitable. But like you, it is still tough. My friends know what I''m like because I''m not as "on" with them.

I also had no sense of humor as a child or a teen - that came later in college. Now one of the first things people comment on about me my sense of humor, so that kind of stuff can definitely be learned. I guess outlook in life is can be nuture thing.

So any thoughts on how possible it is to temper a wild child compared to bringing out a shy one out of its shell?

 

[softly softly]

Date: 9/9/2009 10:34:13 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
Thanks everyone, this is very helpful. I am going to send this thread to my friend.


Softly I agree that toddlers are a piece of work no matter what (I can't wait

), but there is no doubt in my mind that my friend's son is spirited. I lived with their family for a week so I have a good idea of his general personality, and I also know about 5 or 6 other toddlers very very well, so I can make comparisons. Still, I think the suggestion of meeting other mothers is a very very good one. I think she feels like she is a bad mother because her son is challenging

Seeing other misbehaving and stressed moms will probably help

From what I know of your daughter, Tacori, I think she and my friend's son are very similar. He too is a charmer. What prompted me to start this thread was my friend being very upset about one of her friend's commenting that maybe she just *thought* he was challenging, and that he really is not.

This friend only sees the social charmer side that you and Burk talked about, so they were implying that my friend was a complainer or something because she was so tired and exhausted by her son. I don't think these other people have kids

I think the point that someone else made earlier about 18mths being the start of the 'terrible twos' is a pertinent one. Yes it does sound like your friend has a spirited child, but in all the reading I have done and also in my own experience, 18 mths can be a particularly difficult time because it's when kids first start to test their boundaries, but they don't quite have the level of understanding that enables punishments such as time out to be wholly effective. The thing to remember is that 'this to shall pass', easy to say I know, but I do believe it's true. Her son's behaviour will change with time, it may get worse at times, but she will also have periods of calm where she sees more of the charming side of his personality.

My husband and I call it ebb and flow. Some days everything just flows and my kids are complete delights from the moment they wake up. Other days are all ebb and everything is a battle. One thing I have found also is that often toddlers will be more difficult for extended periods when they are making a major developmental leap. The good news is that should she decide to have another child there will be nothing that the second child can throw at her that will feel any worse than anything her first has done.

Lastly, if your friend is finding her son's behaviour particularly challenging on a constant basis would she consider trying a food elimination diet? I haven't tried it myself, but a friend who has twin boys uses it and is happy with the change in their behaviour.

ETA I just thought of a parenting advice blog I read called 'Ask Moxie' that I have found particularly helpful for advice on behavioural issues. The woman who writes it isn't an 'expert', but rather a fellow mum who seems to give very thoughtful, wise and considerate advice. I'm not sure if we are allowed to link to external sites but if you google it, it should come up.

 

[longtimelurker]

I found the book "Raising your spirited child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka helpful, although I have an older version than this http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-Spirited-Child-Rev/dp/0060739665/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252644334&sr=8-1

 

[fisherofmengirly]

Not a mom, but one of my good friends has a child who''s full of energy and "off the chain" a good bit of the time. He''s a good boy, but just so hyper and excited about everything, it lands him in time outs a lot. He''s three, so a little older than most of the kids that have been mentioned so far, but I wanted to share what she does for time outs. While at home, there is a specific spot that he sits for his time outs, and there is a small red circular rug on the floor that he sits on (or beside) during this time. Then, for any out-of-home time-outs, his mom has a red fold out frizbee type of thing that unfolds into a flat nylon circle, and it''s red. She puts that down and he sits. And it''s consistent for him because the color, shape, size are the same, and it helps him to focus on what he''s doing: taking a time out.

It works well for her. She gets some looks, but doesn''t care because she has learned that consistency is so important for her little boy.

Not sure how a toddler would do with a color to sit on, but maybe it could be introduced in the future?

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I still think it is nature vs. nurture. I knew I was in trouble when she was late and I had to push for 3 hours. She let me know she was boss from day 1. Stubborn little girl.